Rogue/Ninja ConfirmedFollow

It sounded like recently they confirmed Ninja was the job from Rogue and that Rogue is essentially Thief as is, just probably without the Thief like abilities from throughout the series.

I've honestly never seen the idea that a Ninja is a Thief, even mechanically. Thiefs never go about learning Ninjitsu for example, sure both can use stealth for what they do (their only true connection), otherwise I can't really name a game that has both that linked the two without calling one "Assassin."

There was also a guy who came here posting about how he liked swords, but didn't like tanking. So he was trying to play GLD like a DPS and thought it completely unreasonable that members of his party were expecting him to tank.

No game can please everyone all the time.

It's called fact. If you used your brain instead of spewing stupid you'd have realized this.

FFXI's had its threat system altered *TWICE* within the past two years. And it still sucks. DDs end up ripping hate within a minute and PLD are still only really used to initially learn content (where everyone throttles and holds back). Once the fights are learned PLD don't serve a purpose and a WAR, MNK, DRK, or SAM face-tank with more solid hold on hate and not that much more difficult to keep alive. Everything dies faster and PLD's regulated back to the closet until the next wave of content's released for the cycle to begin.

It's a terrible system and always has been. People just weren't forced to open their eyes as to how bad it really was until the Abyssea packs were released. Being hit (aka a tank's job) and your threat lowering because you're getting hit (aka doing your job) was such a moronic idea it could only have come from a Tanaka game. Having such a low ceiling (and refusing to change it) and either not giving an innate slowing down of CE/VE decay OR giving an additional boost to a ceiling cap for tanks made an already worse threat system even more moronic.

People ended up trying out different tanks throughout the years until they finally just gave up and face tanked sh*t as DDs. RDM/NIN rotating buffs and sleep spells ring any bells before the CE values were nerfed? NIN/DRK due to the ability to fire off more Stuns than Provoke with proper haste gear? NIN completely overtaking PLD due to the ability to negate a lot of hits to eliminate CE loss, until they built that into shadows, and then finally all but eliminated NIN tanking with damn near everything wiping shadows?

Tanks during the day *HAD* to have those Sneak/Trick attacks if they wanted to continue to pretend that they could hold hate effectively. And even then, it didn't help but for a few additional seconds post that SA/TA until the decay overcame the usefulness of setting it up and people gave up.

FFXI's enmity system was, is, and will continue to be terrible. Period.

FFXIV doesn't have these issues. Threat's pretty simple to maintain, so a job that boosts the tank threat is pointless. And really, outside of stealing, that's *all* Thief had going for it.

Edited, Jun 11th 2014 1:39pm by Viertel

Just wait till you graduate to speed runs

I think alot of the problem people have with no thief is that basically it means no AF no thief look and feel.
Finding the class you like want to play is to me at least is the most important part. If you don't have a class you like relate to the game sucks to play. That's the situation i am now, Bard isnt anything like it was in 11 ,sounds like thief were cut out for Ninja ,and i dont see Puppermaster or fencer being added any time soon.

My hype level was over 9000 at the added class/jobs with knives and was even higher when they showed rogue and then it switched to ninja and i was like ****....

My problem with the class system ff14 has is basically after 30 classes are sh*t and they don't need to be.There should be a difference between a class and a job other then cross class abilities.You can very much tell they want to go down the Arcanist route and have 2 jobs from one class. I cant expect them to actually fill out the outer sides until the expansion or a little before maybe. So still quite a ways away.

Looking at Wildstar they released with 10 classes basically that cater to a wild playstyle. FF14 is just now getting 10 and each of them are so pigeonholed into what they have that having Arcanist around makes it so much more obvious how much that sucks.

Edited, Jun 11th 2014 3:22pm by Aximundi

They're both stealth based characters who strike opportunistically. One uses misdirection while the other uses jutsu, but they accomplish similar tasks. There are more similarities to the job/class combo that don't come only from FFXI.

On a side note, I realize that people feel burned that it's rogue and not thief. Just take a deep breath, realize that most of the game was modeled after WoW and take it as a nod to WoW players. Clearly Yoshi is trying to steal the WoW player base

@Transmigration:

Try to keep in mind, though, in WoW you cannot change your class, ever. It is easier to get another character to max level and geared for Endgame, sure, but in FFXI and FFXIV, you're meant to have a single character, as this character can be any job/class and change almost at a whim.

Though I will agree that it is nice that each WoW Class has options -- Three of them per class (4 for Druid). Each of these specs plays differently (especially for the Pure DPS classes that have 3 different DPS specs).

It'd been a little nicer if each Class had two or three Jobs that could have completely changed the direction of the Class. For example, Gladiator could have had Paladin and maybe, I don't know, Knight. The Knight could have been a DPS Job, and the Knight Soul Gem could have added bonuses and traits that allow the Gladiator's base abilities to be used in a DPS way, such as removing the extra threat from Savage Blade/Rage of Halone, adding new DPS abilities that allow you to DPS, giving you access to the Marauder's Bleeds, as well as traits that boost DPS from stats found on Gladiator Gear (Parry, Dodge, etc), or maybe convert them entirely (A Trait that converts Parry to, say, Extra Damage).

That way, someone who leveled Gladiator could go Tank or DPS (but obviously can't switch in the middle of battle) without having to level a whole 'nuther DoW/DoM and as a bonus, would be able to DPS with a sword in hand, maybe even Sword&Board DPS (shield bashes could be made much more deadly in damage, but remove the stun).

Just some examples/ideas/musings.

That's not really the point i was making Ninja's are not thief's and Thief's are not Ninjas. So i can look like a thief if i dye some thiefy stuff green i still have to use Ninja abilities.

When i left FF11 they had 20 jobs yes that's a couple expansions in but when it was released they had 12 that fit a lot of play styles and after 30 the base jobs were not pointless WAR THF WHM RDM MONK etc all were super useful past level 30.
This game after 4 years is just now getting 10........ in total

As for lore a rogue is a very western idea a thief going into a ninja makes some sense i guess and the argument that it happened in FF1 is kind of silly.
You don't have to have a thief guild.. if there a monk guild or a warrior guild .. no they are extensions of your class

What i don't like is they seem to have added ninja because more people want ninja then thief im ok with that. Then going on to sound like they are saying well you have ninja so you don't get thief is just dumb....but it's ok because thief's became rogues and you can be a rogue.....



Edited, Jun 11th 2014 5:57pm by Aximundi

People crying about no THF must be some of the most stupid people playing this game. The only difference between a Lancer and a Dragoon are jumps, the only difference between Archer and Bard are songs. The way that the job/class system is set up, Rogue and Ninja will play identically except that Ninja will get a few job specific abilities. Stop getting your panties in a bunch over the name, because in the end, the name is going to be the biggest difference between them.

But they have the look and feel of the classic jobs, and that's an important aesthetic to many people. They could have rolled jumps into Lancer and left it at that, but they didn't because people want the spikey armor and the name "Dragoon". It's all part of the Final Fantasy experience, having nothing to do with gameplay issues. Some people just want the green outfit and the word "Thief" in their character sheet, and that's not unreasonable.

Only in FFXI. In other FF games that have had thieves in them, they've been sources of damage and stealing things.

Locke.. Zidane.. Tidus (sort of).. Vaan

I can also pull out Yuffie who's a ninja that spends most of her time stealing things.

Lock'e's damage rarely centered around his actual skills though, and had more to do with his weapon choice early game.

Late game, everyone had magic and his definition kinda fell by the wayside, as did all non-magic centered characters.

Zidane was an interesting theif take, very little of his skill set had to do with dealing and the Trance thing, and his personal definition outshines his thief nature. That and... those dual-swords, not sure what about them screamed 'thief'.

Tidus had the steal ability, but the skill-set was accessible by all characters eventually. He defined himself more as light/speed DPS than a traditional thief. (He was also a sword and board weilder.)

Vaan... well, none of those characters had definition unless you gave it to them. They were more FFVIII style than anything else. Same can be said with any game that pushed individual definition down to weapon type and limit breaks.