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something I just noticed about mythology tome increaseFollow

#1 Jun 02 2014 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Lets say they change brayflox hard to 100 mythology making it like this:

1st boss 20 myth
2nd boss 30 myth
3rd boss 50 myth/45 sold

while that would make ppl do full runs and eliminate first two bosses myth runs.

the average full run party takes 12-15 mins to do a full brayflox run while the average myth run pt takes 6-7 mins....


sooo two myth runs (which would get you 100 myth) would take the exact same time as doing 1 full run. So at the end of the day youre really not getting mythology tomes any faster than you were before even if they do increase the rate like listed above (i came up with those numbers due to what philosophy tomes used to be like in the harder dungeons and assume SE would be either copying that or doing better. I would be disappointed if they did less than that). So if thats how it ends up being then at the end of the day they avent changed anything.


Sure doing 15 full brayflox runs SOUNDS better than doing 30 myth runs (especially since you have to do 10 fulls runs to cap sold anyway) but as far as myth per hour goes, nothing is changing, unless someone can show me what Im missing?
#2 Jun 02 2014 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
That would be much nicer for people like me who don't spam speed runs.

Personally, I think it's comical (and puzzling) how people claim to hate speed running Brayflox, but then proceed to do it over and over and over again. I don't like spamming speed runs, so I don't do it... and, wouldn't you know it? I still have fun running dungeons.

I do speed runs every now and then, but why repeatedly do something that a) you dislike, and b) is optional?

Edited, Jun 2nd 2014 9:04am by Thayos
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#3 Jun 02 2014 at 10:20 AM Rating: Default
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I can easily answer that question. Because you want this cool new weapon that cost 13500 tomes and it take long enough a sit is (and is boring) so why torture yourself even further by dragging it out, get it over with the quickest way possible and put it behind you.

(also if the make roulette change myth to what philosophy was Then it would be easier as I easily got 900 philo a day just doin roulettes lol)

SO although yo dont like it you do it to get it over with. Is kind like going to work I would much rather stay at home all day and game or watch tv. however If you dont work bills dont get paid then you couldnt game, watch tv or have a place to live in. SO I reluctantly work my *** off not becau eI like it or want to do it but because it allows me to do the thing i DO want to do.... same reason why (imo) pl who hate brayflox speedruns would still do it anyway
#4 Jun 02 2014 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
the average full run party takes 12-15 mins to do a full brayflox run while the average myth run pt takes 6-7 mins....


sooo two myth runs (which would get you 100 myth) would take the exact same time as doing 1 full run. So at the end of the day youre really not getting mythology tomes any faster than you were before even if they do increase the rate like listed above (i came up with those numbers due to what philosophy tomes used to be like in the harder dungeons and assume SE would be either copying that or doing better. I would be disappointed if they did less than that). So if thats how it ends up being then at the end of the day they avent changed anything.


A group that is good enough to take 6-7 mins to do the first two bosses will not take 12-15 mins to do a full run.

Quote:
Personally, I think it's comical (and puzzling) how people claim to hate speed running Brayflox, but then proceed to do it over and over and over again. I don't like spamming speed runs, so I don't do it... and, wouldn't you know it? I still have fun running dungeons.

I do speed runs every now and then, but why repeatedly do something that a) you dislike, and b) is optional?


It's not comical at all. The sheer amount of tomes needed for a single animus weapon is what causes people to grudgingly do this.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2014 5:33pm by Fynlar
#5 Jun 02 2014 at 4:13 PM Rating: Default
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
the average full run party takes 12-15 mins to do a full brayflox run while the average myth run pt takes 6-7 mins....


sooo two myth runs (which would get you 100 myth) would take the exact same time as doing 1 full run. So at the end of the day youre really not getting mythology tomes any faster than you were before even if they do increase the rate like listed above (i came up with those numbers due to what philosophy tomes used to be like in the harder dungeons and assume SE would be either copying that or doing better. I would be disappointed if they did less than that). So if thats how it ends up being then at the end of the day they avent changed anything.


A group that is good enough to take 6-7 mins to do the first two bosses will not take 12-15 mins to do a full run.



Edited, Jun 2nd 2014 5:33pm by Fynlar



soo after the second boss theyre gonna do that one big pull, kill all those enemies then take out the last boss in 5 mins? Now maybe if the boss didnt use cheap delay tactics (i.e going into the background being unattackable and thus wasting time while you push away bombs) and you could hit him constantly with no interruptions and if your had a blm hat could 100% time lb to take him out at the end before he summons the big bomb then yes you could do it in 5 mins... but realistically.. youre still lookin at a 12-15 min full runs... now if you wanna point me to a youtube video that shows a faster full run I wanna see it.
#6 Jun 02 2014 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Any group with DPS sharp enough to do 6-7 min myth speedruns ought to be able to skip the 3rd bomb phase on the 3rd boss. LB isn't even required (I've seen it done without many times); DPS usually just need to save/time their cooldowns for that last phase rather than blowing them sooner in the fight.

Everything between the 2nd boss and the end takes a little bit longer than everything between the 1st and 2nd boss due to the fact that the trash is forcibly separated into two groups and the 3rd boss has periods of invulnerability, but it still should not be taking anywhere near 5 minutes to finish.
#7 Jun 02 2014 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
soo after the second boss theyre gonna do that one big pull, kill all those enemies then take out the last boss in 5 mins? Now maybe if the boss didnt use cheap delay tactics (i.e going into the background being unattackable and thus wasting time while you push away bombs) and you could hit him constantly with no interruptions and if your had a blm hat could 100% time lb to take him out at the end before he summons the big bomb then yes you could do it in 5 mins... but realistically.. youre still lookin at a 12-15 min full runs... now if you wanna point me to a youtube video that shows a faster full run I wanna see it.


I've almost always killed him pre-bomb and even once without a LB (though the WHM was going ape on him and the other BRD was VERY well geared, so that's not the norm in that situation).
#8 Jun 02 2014 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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I just came back to the game after taking about 3 months off. At first I hated the idea of Atma FATE farming, but in total I think it was about 12 hours. 12 hours to get an awesome upgrade. If this was WoW, or any other MMO, how many hours of end game dungeon farming would I have to plunk down before I got the one weapon I wanted? I guarantee it'd be more than 12 hours, unless I was lucky.

With that being said, I saw a chart out there showing how much time it takes to farm 13.5k myth + killing all the book mobs, and in all objectiveness I've got to admit it's fair. It's actually probably a huge improvement from XI and the obscene amount of time you'd need to get some of those weapons.
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#9 Jun 02 2014 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
the average full run party takes 12-15 mins to do a full brayflox run while the average myth run pt takes 6-7 mins....


sooo two myth runs (which would get you 100 myth) would take the exact same time as doing 1 full run. So at the end of the day youre really not getting mythology tomes any faster than you were before even if they do increase the rate like listed above (i came up with those numbers due to what philosophy tomes used to be like in the harder dungeons and assume SE would be either copying that or doing better. I would be disappointed if they did less than that). So if thats how it ends up being then at the end of the day they avent changed anything.


A group that is good enough to take 6-7 mins to do the first two bosses will not take 12-15 mins to do a full run.



Edited, Jun 2nd 2014 5:33pm by Fynlar



soo after the second boss theyre gonna do that one big pull, kill all those enemies then take out the last boss in 5 mins? Now maybe if the boss didnt use cheap delay tactics (i.e going into the background being unattackable and thus wasting time while you push away bombs) and you could hit him constantly with no interruptions and if your had a blm hat could 100% time lb to take him out at the end before he summons the big bomb then yes you could do it in 5 mins... but realistically.. youre still lookin at a 12-15 min full runs... now if you wanna point me to a youtube video that shows a faster full run I wanna see it.

The last boss takes under 2 minutes if you can skip the big bomb, and that's not hard to do if you have a group that can get through the first 2 bosses in 6-7 minutes. BLM is the worst job to do a LB on last boss, you can do almost as much damage with a saved up thundercloud/firestarter > swift flare, and timed with a DRG/MNK LB, you won't see the big bomb. If you are stuck into thinking that the only way to speed run is BLM/BRD, then you might have issues with skipping the last bomb. If you do get the big bomb, that's an extra 90 seconds at most.

With a practiced group of ilvl 95+, 10 minutes is not unrealistic for a full run.
#10 Jun 03 2014 at 7:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sorry, but you guys are argueing minutes... And for the big bomb phase even seconds... That's just rediculous.

Will adjusting the payout in this way change how people run the dungeon? No. It wont.

Will it be nice for everyone who likes to run this stuff the normal way, hell yes. I HATE speedruns. I dont proclaim to hate something this easily, but speedruns? hate them. Stressful, rude unforgiving members and not fun for a minute or two saved running it? I'd rather take 5 minutes more, heck, 10 minutes more in a dungeon and actually have fun and be able to relax, opposed to stressing the **** out and people reacting like some angry tense teenager when something goes wrong.
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#11 Jun 03 2014 at 7:28 AM Rating: Default
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KojiroSoma wrote:
I'm sorry, but you guys are argueing minutes... And for the big bomb phase even seconds... That's just rediculous.

Will adjusting the payout in this way change how people run the dungeon? No. It wont.

Will it be nice for everyone who likes to run this stuff the normal way, hell yes. I HATE speedruns. I dont proclaim to hate something this easily, but speedruns? hate them. Stressful, rude unforgiving members and not fun for a minute or two saved running it? I'd rather take 5 minutes more, heck, 10 minutes more in a dungeon and actually have fun and be able to relax, opposed to stressing the @#%^ out and people reacting like some angry tense teenager when something goes wrong.



im confused how is killing teh first two bosses and quitting less fun and more stressful gthan running he whole dungeon?
#12 Jun 03 2014 at 7:29 AM Rating: Default
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garethrogue wrote:
I just came back to the game after taking about 3 months off. At first I hated the idea of Atma FATE farming, but in total I think it was about 12 hours. 12 hours to get an awesome upgrade. If this was WoW, or any other MMO, how many hours of end game dungeon farming would I have to plunk down before I got the one weapon I wanted? I guarantee it'd be more than 12 hours, unless I was lucky.

With that being said, I saw a chart out there showing how much time it takes to farm 13.5k myth + killing all the book mobs, and in all objectiveness I've got to admit it's fair. It's actually probably a huge improvement from XI and the obscene amount of time you'd need to get some of those weapons.




12 hours would be the equivalent or 1 atma an hour.. umm thats highly unlikely unless youre extremely lucky.. I mean i have 4 atma weapons and only ONCE did i get 8 atmas in 8 hours... soo I had 8 fast atmas out of 48? now 20 hours is more realistic. As for the chart you speak off.. is here a link? I wanna see it
#13 Jun 03 2014 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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Tank accidently got locked out of Bray HM last boss yesterday. I got to tank it as BRD and even though the run took a bit longer, we killed the boss just before the ta k killed the couerl add solo outside the fight. We all agreed, it was was exceptionally fun. I wouldn't want to do that every time, but it was a great change of pace and slightly reminded me of soloing HNMs as THF or RNG hoping I wouldn't die while the LS rushed to assist.
#14 Jun 03 2014 at 7:35 AM Rating: Default
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stouter wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
the average full run party takes 12-15 mins to do a full brayflox run while the average myth run pt takes 6-7 mins....


sooo two myth runs (which would get you 100 myth) would take the exact same time as doing 1 full run. So at the end of the day youre really not getting mythology tomes any faster than you were before even if they do increase the rate like listed above (i came up with those numbers due to what philosophy tomes used to be like in the harder dungeons and assume SE would be either copying that or doing better. I would be disappointed if they did less than that). So if thats how it ends up being then at the end of the day they avent changed anything.


A group that is good enough to take 6-7 mins to do the first two bosses will not take 12-15 mins to do a full run.



Edited, Jun 2nd 2014 5:33pm by Fynlar



soo after the second boss theyre gonna do that one big pull, kill all those enemies then take out the last boss in 5 mins? Now maybe if the boss didnt use cheap delay tactics (i.e going into the background being unattackable and thus wasting time while you push away bombs) and you could hit him constantly with no interruptions and if your had a blm hat could 100% time lb to take him out at the end before he summons the big bomb then yes you could do it in 5 mins... but realistically.. youre still lookin at a 12-15 min full runs... now if you wanna point me to a youtube video that shows a faster full run I wanna see it.

The last boss takes under 2 minutes if you can skip the big bomb, and that's not hard to do if you have a group that can get through the first 2 bosses in 6-7 minutes. BLM is the worst job to do a LB on last boss, you can do almost as much damage with a saved up thundercloud/firestarter > swift flare, and timed with a DRG/MNK LB, you won't see the big bomb. If you are stuck into thinking that the only way to speed run is BLM/BRD, then you might have issues with skipping the last bomb. If you do get the big bomb, that's an extra 90 seconds at most.

With a practiced group of ilvl 95+, 10 minutes is not unrealistic for a full run.



as for blm/brd thing well tel everyone else that... its like trying to get ppl in FFXI at CoP launch to do anything with a non nin /nin or smn... could it BE done? yes (as i finished cop as s thief) but how likely would you get a random group of ppl to do it? ummmm highly unlikely (only way i got away with it cause I made a static). Also how good would mnk be in a speedrun anyway considering their lack of GOOD AOEs? Now drg yes Ive seen them do it but mnk?

Also what about blmx2 I always here how much faster they are then blm/brd yet everytime ive done it with blmx2 it was still 6-7 min runs.. none of the 5misn or less ppl claim to have seen.
#15 Jun 03 2014 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
I'm sorry, but you guys are argueing minutes... And for the big bomb phase even seconds... That's just rediculous.

Will adjusting the payout in this way change how people run the dungeon? No. It wont.

Will it be nice for everyone who likes to run this stuff the normal way, hell yes. I HATE speedruns. I dont proclaim to hate something this easily, but speedruns? hate them. Stressful, rude unforgiving members and not fun for a minute or two saved running it? I'd rather take 5 minutes more, heck, 10 minutes more in a dungeon and actually have fun and be able to relax, opposed to stressing the @#%^ out and people reacting like some angry tense teenager when something goes wrong.


im confused how is killing teh first two bosses and quitting less fun and more stressful gthan running he whole dungeon?


When you run the whole dungeon you don't feel as pressured to do it in X amount of time.
#16 Jun 03 2014 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
It clear the current distribution of Myth is not even.

If you have a clear imbalance in content participation, you up the rewards for other things to compensate (and yes spreading some Myth to the final Brayflox boss is a fine idea). This is just a MMO basic.

While it's true players always find the fastest route, the margin by which Brayflox is faster is too severe to have gone unaddressed for so long.

#17 Jun 03 2014 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I guarantee people would ***** if SE designed a dungeon that was only 2 bosses and only offered a small myth reward. If they're not going to make dungeons relevant to the game's story and world at least running full dungeons should be fun and rewarding, so running full dungeons does put less pressure, especially if you DF it and you get those tanks who run off before any buffs or anything.

While yes as healer I let them die instantly, still, 'speed runs' be it first 2 boss and quit or full speed run tend to be stressful in a sense compared to full runs that aren't "speed runs."

Gnu wrote:
It clear the current distribution of Myth is not even.

If you have a clear imbalance in content participation, you up the rewards for other things to compensate (and yes spreading some Myth to the final Brayflox boss is a fine idea). This is just a MMO basic.

While it's true players always find the fastest route, the margin by which Brayflox is faster is too severe to have gone unaddressed for so long.



Yep, SE screwed up trying to be SLIGHTLY different from the standard, Myth distribution was amazing before this past update.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2014 7:23am by Theonehio
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#18 Jun 03 2014 at 8:49 AM Rating: Default
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opps read that wrong

Edited, Jun 3rd 2014 10:00am by DuoMaxwellxx
#19 Jun 03 2014 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
you know they have FULL speedruns too right?


Hm..

I wrote:
'speed runs' be it first 2 boss and quit or full speed run


Nope, didn't know that. Smiley: rolleyes Hence why I said basically as Catwho said, speed runs of any nature usually put on a kind of pressure not found in non speed runs in a general sense, especially with how crappy the Myth distribution is after the update. Instead of replacing Philo tomes (like it should have by all rights( it replaced it while not even completing being the fraction of worth as the turn in were. CT lost 100 Myth, it should have at least been 170ish.



Edited, Jun 3rd 2014 7:54am by Theonehio
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#20 Jun 03 2014 at 9:01 AM Rating: Default
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yeah philo should have been replaced... that way roulette was easily 900 philo a day if i could do that with myth thats 1 book every 2 days and still have 300 myth left over Id be perfectly ok with that
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