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Choosing a DoM class for my characterFollow

#1 May 28 2014 at 9:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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For gameplay purposes, I'm levelling all three DoMs to 50 for the cross class abilities, as well as the Archmage achievement. But in terms of IC RPing, I was wondering which one do you think would be the most "ideal" based on my character's personality?

Key points:
-My character isn't the most outgoing individual; as an Adventurer she prefers to work alone, although she is capable of working with others when the situation calls.
-Although my character does her best to remain stoic, she secretly harbors a great deal of bitterness and cynicism towards 80% of Eorzea's townsfolk for treating her like dirt just because she is an Adventurer. She's fairly sensitive, and strongly disagrees with "tough love", believing that respect is not something that should have to be earned.
-Although she isn't likely to willingly break with the Guild regarding the use of her magic, and there are people in all three Guilds that she would get along well with, she nevertheless finds it difficult not to see the Archons and the Scions as more or less the only sane people in Eorzea.
-My character also is fairly peaceful by nature, dislikes war, and fights out of necessity and for the good of the world rather than out of a love of battle.
-Overall, I'd say my character is a lot like Terra or Rydia in many ways. But with a different element.

The thing is, all three of them seem to have their own set of pros and cons. For example, the Conjurer's Guild is arguably most peaceful of the three, yet Gridania as a whole is the city that seems to most embody the hostility towards others that my character is resentful of.
#2 May 28 2014 at 9:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you're peaceful by nature and dislike war, I can't see BLM working all that well. From the "likes to work alone" part, I would think either SMN or SCH.
#3 May 28 2014 at 11:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Based on that description I vote arcanist.
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#4 May 29 2014 at 2:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Second the Arcanist. Two primary characters in the storyline epitomize at least some of the qualities you have in your character, including the works alone/distrust of others bit.

Going through the storyline for ACN is actually a good way to naturally grow your character into someone who values the contributions others make, if not outright enjoy their company. So you have good rationalization for starting out the way you do and as the quest goes on your character can slowly understand the good others can do. Maybe she still prefers to keep her distance and work alone, but she also understands the necessity of sometimes working with others.

Edited, May 29th 2014 1:49am by Quor
#5 May 29 2014 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, Arcanist, as you'll be spending most of your time with books or Primals rather than people.
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#6 May 29 2014 at 6:38 AM Rating: Default
48 posts
svlyons wrote:
If you're peaceful by nature and dislike war, I can't see BLM working all that well. From the "likes to work alone" part, I would think either SMN or SCH.


But the thing is, aren't SCHs basically arcane-wielding versions of these guys?:
http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/Warlord
http://www.play-frugal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Bloefhiswyn.png
#7 May 29 2014 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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No class/job is inherently bloodthirsty and aggressive, it's the individual. Even a warrior with a massive axe can choose to be a defender instead of a warmonger. That said war and battle is a major part of the game so you will get your hands dirty at some point.
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#8 May 29 2014 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
JFrombaugh wrote:
svlyons wrote:
If you're peaceful by nature and dislike war, I can't see BLM working all that well. From the "likes to work alone" part, I would think either SMN or SCH.


But the thing is, aren't SCHs basically arcane-wielding versions of these guys?:
http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/Warlord
http://www.play-frugal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Bloefhiswyn.png


The image you have there is the Admiral, who is the unplayable Musketeer class. She is not an arcanist.

Arcanists in XIV use grimoires to help them devise tactics. Your first summons is Emerald Carbuncle, a benign blue squirrel. and then you later unlock Topaz Carbuncle, who has enmity generating capabilities to keep monsters off you. Basically, arcanist is designed to be a back line job, and when playing solo, is intended to be played in tandem with a summoned pet.

Edited, May 29th 2014 9:12am by Catwho
#9 May 29 2014 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
48 posts
Quor wrote:
Second the Arcanist. Two primary characters in the storyline epitomize at least some of the qualities you have in your character, including the works alone/distrust of others bit.

Going through the storyline for ACN is actually a good way to naturally grow your character into someone who values the contributions others make, if not outright enjoy their company. So you have good rationalization for starting out the way you do and as the quest goes on your character can slowly understand the good others can do. Maybe she still prefers to keep her distance and work alone, but she also understands the necessity of sometimes working with others.

Edited, May 29th 2014 1:49am by Quor


I actually got the impression that Arcanist wouldn't really fit the "likes to work alone" part, because if you look at the quests, they emphasize the practical application of their art in the field, being a team player, executing strategy together, etc. The other two, by contrast, are more about your individual training, being sent by your guild to do trials on your own and learn about the nature of your art...up until the storyline takes a more dramatic shift.

It's true that my character eventually will recognize the necessity of sometimes working with others, but that would likely happen much later in her storyline (like after level 30-40), because like I said she is a loner by nature, and ultimately ends up allied with the Scions, not the city states.

Going strictly by the starting cities, I'd say it's a case of "pick your poison": Gridania has the arrogance and arguably totalitarian attitudes, Ul'dah has the corruption by the Syndicate, and Limsa Lominsa has the chauvinism/general social coarseness.

Edited, May 29th 2014 8:22pm by JFrombaugh
#10 May 29 2014 at 6:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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DoM story spoilers ahead.

CNJ has you essentially becoming the mentor/savior for a young girl.
THM has you acting in a very altruistic way to save a young Lalafell and end a great evil.
ACN has you working in tandem with another ACN to catch a notorious pirate and bring peace to your ACN companion.


They all have moments regarding teamwork, and in all of them these moments are prominently placed, and visited often. ACN holds up the best because you have a separate companion, magical in nature, that can easily serve as your "only" trusted friend. CNJ and THM get nothing in that regard, and it's so much richer to say you trust Carbuncle than just to say you trust no one but yourself, particularly when CNJ and THM both have story lines that go counter to that line of thinking.

Edited, May 29th 2014 5:59pm by Quor
#11 May 29 2014 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
48 posts
For what it's worth, these are the pros and cons for each IMO, as far as my character goes:

Conjurer
Pros: Arguably the most peace-oriented of the three. My character potentially could choose the forest for the beauty, which would give a good background story. Would likely get along far better with Kan-E-Senna than Merlwb or Raubhan.
Cons: There's more than a few reasons to believe Conjurers aren't as "good" as they seem. Padjal from the WHM storyline are just as arrogant and discriminating as the Wildwoods. Character is bound by the elementals' will & must respect superiors. Located in the city that is the most hostile towards outsiders.

Thaumaturge
Pros: The most "aloof" of the three as far as story goes. Has a very strong "outcast" persona. Focus is on individuality. Does good things despite weilding dark powers.
Cons: Would be the worst as far as character development & meeting people that could help her rise above her bitterness with warmongering. Guild's actions and motives are reportedly corrupted by materialism as well. Located in the most politically right-wing of the three cities.

Arcanist
Pros: More friendly, humble, and trustworthy than most Limsa Lominsans. Unique Jobs that almost no one else is today. Of all the Archons you meet early on, Y'shtola is the one my character would be the most compatible with.
Cons: Works for the Limsa Lominsa government (although one character does eventually decide to leave the guild to pursue her studies elsewhere). Seems to me like the main purpose of learning Arcanima (especially SCH abilities) is to become a military man. Given that my character is ruled by her heart more than her head, she may feel that the other two disciples are more "intuitive" ways of casting and easier to learn.

Make of this what you will.

Edited, May 29th 2014 10:04pm by JFrombaugh

Edited, May 29th 2014 10:12pm by JFrombaugh
#12 May 29 2014 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
I still say arcanist. As you've pointed out, the Padjal are just as arrogant as everyone else in Gridania. Ul'Dahns only like you if you are rich. The Limsans seem to be the most accepting and equitable of the three nations - half the population was an outlaw just a few years ago, so these days they can't really discriminate too much.

The leader of the Arcanist guild is himself a loner. He is absent until some of the later arcanist quests because he, too, prefers to be alone. I think it's only one small faction of the Arcanist's guild who works for the Limsans - some of the initial quests involve paperwork and nagging others, but that fades fast as they realize you have other talents more suitable for wandering the world, like the guild master.
#13 May 30 2014 at 4:15 AM Rating: Good
48 posts
I never played XI...but I've heard that it was much the same way in that your character got kicked around more than a soccer ball.

So just out of curiosity, which Starting City/Class do you think would fit this character if she were in XI instead? Or was class less of a lore issue in that game?

#14 May 30 2014 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
JFrombaugh wrote:
I never played XI...but I've heard that it was much the same way in that your character got kicked around more than a soccer ball.

So just out of curiosity, which Starting City/Class do you think would fit this character if she were in XI instead? Or was class less of a lore issue in that game?


Classes were much less lore based, yes. Instead we had much more severe racial tensions in FFXI.

Tarutaru: Cognates to the Lalafell. Most numerous race, they bred like rabbits. Hated the Elvaan, friends with Mithra.
Mithra: Female only race. (Cat boys existed but they were so rare they didn't venture outside of the home. We got one measly male catboy NPC...) Very tribal in nature. Friends with Tarutaru.
Elvaan: Arrogant and proud. Got into a really nasty war with Tarutaru a few hundred years ago, lost, and have been bitter ever since.
Humes: Easy going to the point of apathy and laziness, although by some accounts the most advanced technologically (since they want machines to do the work.) Enslaved the Galka. Incredibly racist toward the Galka, whom they rescued from a giant ant invasion. (Really. Entire Galka civilization collapsed because of giant ants.)
Galka: Male only race, cognates of our Roegadyn. Hate Humes, but still work with them. They kind of reincarnate. Long lived, like turtles.

The Elvaan live in San d'Oria and HATE outsiders, so you'd probably end up there. Honestly your character would be a Galka in XI, but since there aren't any females, she'd probably work best as a Mithra. Her own tribe could have kicked her out since she became an adventurer, and if she moved to San d'Oria to boot, she'd be doubly outcast. Much of the racial lore around the Mithra is around controlling their own "sin."

And I'd put the character as a RDM in FFXI. Red mages had healing abilities and were the enfeebling masters of the game. A red mage could take part in a team, but they were the masters of soloing difficult fights that could otherwise take an entire party or alliance to down. (I've heard a high level RDM fight as "annoying a monster to death.") Red mages also did have a partial base in San d'Oria, although jobs in FFXI don't have formal guilds.
#15 May 30 2014 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
48 posts
WOW, Mithra Red Mage is exactly what I would have probably chosen! I know Red Mage is a class that really has had me interested for awhile, and I'm kinda disappointed it didn't make into XIV, yet.

Going by what I've heard, though, if I used the same mould, my character would likely be a lot more like Squall or Celes, in XI's universe. According to those I've talked to who have played it, entire storylines revolve around your character being mistreated, bullied, and even manipulated by their home city and enemies alike. And whereas XIV has the Scions and groups like the Arcanists Guild who are tolerant of you, in XI there seems to pretty much be no escape from the arrogant, obnoxious brutes, and all my character would be able to do is simply grouse and wait for the day a beastman or someone from an opposing kingdom will get lucky and catch them in the crosshairs.

A lot of people have said XI is definitely one of the darkest Final Fantasy games, up there with VI, XIII, and Tactics.



Edited, May 30th 2014 4:25pm by JFrombaugh
#16 May 30 2014 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Well, in some sense. Your XI character is in the "happy" universe. There are several parallel universes where things are not so good and you interact with them in the expansions. In Chains of Promathia and Wings of the Goddess, you do save the world. In Abyssea, your alternate reality self lost to CoP's final boss and things went to pot pretty fast. Smiley: laugh

Your character isn't really mistreated that much though. And you become friends with some pretty important people. (The Duke of Jeuno, the pirate princess and her brother the head of the Tenshodo, the heir of Tavnazia and her immortal best friend and the Cardinal of the church, the Empress of Aht Urghan and her brother the Grand Vizier, a time traveler whose other dimension self is the Demon Queen, and lately the princess of Adoulin and her brother who is the ruler.) By the end of each expansion, the majority of the NPCs are a bit more respectful. (To the end, though, the soldiers in Sandy bark out "move along foreigner!" even though you saved the kingdom TWICE. Bleah.)

XIV is pretty dark too. Bahamut took out a good chunk of the population of Gridania and permanently altered the landscape. (The southern part of North Shroud used to be as green and lush as East Shroud is.) Many thousands of people died in the final battle itself. Ul'Dah is filled with refugees and orphans it doesn't have the room to handle. Limsa is running out of arable land and is having trouble feeding its own growing population.

Arcanist is currently the closest we have to a Red Mage, since they get DoTs as their primary offense.
#17 May 30 2014 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Although im no expert RP'er, couldnt you just pick whatever you want while being/doing the things you suggested?
#18 May 30 2014 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:

Your character isn't really mistreated that much though. And you become friends with some pretty important people. (The Duke of Jeuno, the pirate princess and her brother the head of the Tenshodo, the heir of Tavnazia and her immortal best friend and the Cardinal of the church, the Empress of Aht Urghan and her brother the Grand Vizier, a time traveler whose other dimension self is the Demon Queen, and lately the princess of Adoulin and her brother who is the ruler.) By the end of each expansion, the majority of the NPCs are a bit more respectful. (To the end, though, the soldiers in Sandy bark out "move along foreigner!" even though you saved the kingdom TWICE. Bleah.)


I just know that whenever I've brought up this very same topic about the harsh treatment in XIV, someone has often chimed in and said that XI was just as bad, if not worse in this regard. For instance one guy said that the Elvaan are even more "arrogant" than the Wildwood Elezen in XIV, the Tarutaru and Humes are just as unscrupulous as the Syndicate/Brass Blades, etc.

By "mistreated" I mean the kind of attitude I have established my character as being resentful of, is it more frequent in XI than in XIV?

#19 May 30 2014 at 10:05 PM Rating: Excellent
I kind of got more of a sense of... jealousy? Maybe wistfulness. The NPCs in XI were usually pretty jealous of the lifestyle that adventurers had. For example, the miners in Zehruhn Mines explicitly say they wish they were as free as adventurers. (One then complains about his nagging wife.)

The Elvaan were distrustful for good reason. The Tarutaru DID try to exterminate them in the past. And not all Elvaan were ******** about it. Just the elders, really. The Kingdom of San d'Oria had been fiercely closed off until the Crystal War forced them to ally with the other major nations.

NPC leaders were always commenting about changing times, learning to accept outsiders, yada yada.

Now, one NPC in particular used you as a rug (Naja Salaheem) but she did that to everyone, adventurer or not. She was Alpha Kitty and she made sure everyone knew it. (Her assistant, we've concluded, is the sub in their dom/sub relationship.)
#20 May 30 2014 at 11:55 PM Rating: Good
48 posts
One more thing I noticed about FFXIV was that in contrast to WoW where >70% of ALL NPCs of a particular race have specific personality traits, the races themselves don't actually have that much of a personality "archetype". That is, their lore descriptions really only apply to a certain extent, and many of the NPCs you meet could easily have come from another starting city.

Is this the same for XI as well? Or do the races have more of a cookie cutter mold? (i.e is Naja Salaheem the exception or the rule when it comes to Mithras?)

Edited, May 31st 2014 1:57am by JFrombaugh

Edited, May 31st 2014 2:01am by JFrombaugh
#21 May 31 2014 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
You're correct, the archetypes are more like stereotypes for NPCs. There are plenty of humble Elvaan, plenty of industrious humans, plenty of calm non-Hulkish Galka, plenty of brave non-cowardly Tarutaru, and plenty of contented Mithra. Actually, the NPC leaders seem to embody those traits to some extent. In XI there was plenty of room for flexibility of character. That said, some Elvaan player characters still made a point of punting every Tarutaru they saw, and a recurrent phrase among hume player characters to a Galka was "get back in the mines!" So even outside of role play, we kept up appearances for racial tensions since that was one of the toys in the sandbox we were given.

Naja was an exception, but her own personal back story which came very very late in the expansion she was from: explained that she was trying to pay off a debt that her tribe owed, which led to her money-grubbing ways and her domineering personality. She does own and operate a very successful business and since her family is so important to her (although she never talks about them), that's why she is the way she is. No one else matters to her - they are all pawns.
#22 May 31 2014 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
48 posts
Well, thank you for everything Catwho. Maybe at some point I'll try out the 14 day trial of XI.

Back on topic: My original plan was for my character to be a Red Mage, with both halves representing her two conflicting natures (idealism vs cynicism, peace vs independence, etc.) but unfortunately not only did Red Mages not make it into XIV, but Eorzea seems to be a universe where weilding both Black and White magic is far less possible than in other FF games where the two are treated more like simple elemental magic and healing magic respectively. For instance, it's implied in the BLM storyline and the class's web description that those who weild Black Magic run the risk of going insane from megalomania unless they actively resist the Void's corruption. Even if both arts are actually very similar and it's not impossible to be a practicioner of both, I don't think the Padjal would be fine at all with teaching a BLM the lost art of Succor.

Plus, one must always take into consideration that my character despises people who think that their position gives them the right to display contempt towards others (like Naja!). One of the worst things to be seen doing is remaining arrogant in the face of war.It's implied that almost no one lived in Nym at the time compared to the other city states, yet the Scholars managed to hold back repeated invasions with their knowledge of tactics and shielding spells. Also, the tonberry you meet at the end of the SCH storyline is shown to care very much for his fairy, whilst Raya-O-Senna has no problem with threatening her Moogles.

And even if the SCH you meet was an "exception", that isn't really relevant to the story, because seeing as how Nym doesn't exist anymore, we probably won't ever know for sure. Same thing with Summoner, you become kind of a rebel researcher who learns the lost art of summoning as a way of defeating the Primals.

So...Arcanist it is, I guess.
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