Greed Party and Loot thievesFollow

This is exactly why a master loot system needs to be implemented. I am really surprised, at the advent of the party finder, that no master loot system was implemented next to it. :(

I think what you did is fine. In a greed party, need should never be used. You did just as I do: posted who wanted what before the chests were opened so they KNOW who needs what and have no excuse.

I would honestly prefer to make a thread on my server forums for known loot thieves but they don't like name/shame over there so it seems, for now, people will get get away with it with word of mouth being the only way to warn others.

Sorry this happened, Ken. Maybe post it over on the OF to demonstrate that additional loot rules need to be created.

According to new rules and what GM states, you can report them and they can actually get a temp suspension. You can't "accidentally need" on an item because when it pops up even while you're hitting confirm it only "confirms" the windows, none of the options. This is why I miss the XI system and why Need/Greed/Pass is a **** system in general. You can ninja stuff in XI no one denies that, but you can also see who will try to since if you don't see that --- by their name, you can either sit there till time expire or report them (XIV) as they're trying to steal and break the agreement when joining the party.


If we must have Need/Greed/Pass, they can at least change it to where the leader can disable 'need' in the loot settings and as well as change Greed to where people who have the actual class leveled can greed on it..seen far too many caster loot go to people who don't have THM/ACN unlocked, let alone beyond level 10 if they do and have no plans to level it. (I kept tabs and 1 month later, the person still didn't level acn/thm.)

I like the idea of being able to disable the "need" button. Have it be something that the party leader can pop up at dungeon start for a vote and as long as the majority of the party agrees, it's done and can't be change.

"Party Leader has implemented a request to disable the 'Need' button for the loot list. Choose Yes to agree and No to disagree."

That way a party leader can't ninja change it when he sees something he wants midway through the run.

Edited, Apr 21st 2014 9:48am by Catwho

Since loot tables are essentially known day 1 now, could they not program some sort of item select feature prior to entering a dungeon? Before entering, everyone checks off one item they want, if more then one person want it, it's available to be greeded on by the members who selected it only?

The screen could show up prior to everyone entering the dungeon, everything else could be free lot. If the leader happens to kick someone because they want that item for themselves or someone else, too bad, can't lot it. I don't know, I know it seems a bit complicated, but it's clear you can't trust people over a video game item nowadays, so what do you do?

Yea that really sucks, but in the leader's defense he probably didn't really have much control over what the blm was going to do either. You should have cleared it with the BLM himself. Who knows, the dude might have told you he was going to roll need. These other solutions of greying out buttons and etc are all just overly complicated ways of dealing with the issue. Master looter, leader of the party hands out loot. It's that simple - then you just have one person to blame for all the problems in the world.

The problem with Master Loot is just the same as when SE implemented the kick option. You a PF that it said to be Greed but the party is over half of the same FC. Then the item you want to Greed on drops but at the same time the Party Leader buddy wanted too. So he gives the item to his body and then kick you of the party.

When it comes to PF, there is really not a easy 100% fair system where people cannot steal items. Adding a system where you can preset the items will be complicated to program and debug. That is why there is a lot of PF that they just go for Need > Greed to avoid the problems of people ninja items.

I for one hate the whole need greed system specially since we all have multiple jobs and all put in the same effort to achieve the goal it is simple not fair. If I'm sitting in pf for 30 min on my drg while we only need a tank, party ask me to switch to pld to speed the process along another drg joins drg loot drops and now I have no real claim to it. The whole system I'd bogus

^^
This.

@nonameoflevi: Try tanking yourself. It takes a lot more work than being a DPS. And while you're doing this, try to remember that without tanks, you're not gonna do the content, period. No Tanks or Heals = You have to wait. Every time you pull hate and have something chewing on your face, it is the Tank who saves you, and the Healer who keeps you from dying.

To try show a little more respect in the future, for the people who keep your butt alive, and the people who enable you to do the content in the first place.

Some tanks take it too far and get bossy, but most of us only do that kinda thing after we've been shat on for days/weeks/months/years. It gets old. A lot of us (myself included) tank because we enjoy the feeling of being helpful, we enjoy the teamwork aspect of tanking (I take the hits so everybody else can survive). Some of us enjoy that feeling we get when we know that we're protecting everybody else in the group, that feeling we get when we keep our watchful eye over everybody else. When we kill a boss and nobody died the whole fight. When a dangerous mob goes after a squishy in the group and we taunt it off him/her in the nick of time.

But despite our warm hearts, and the willingness to put ourselves in direct danger for everybody's benefit, we get shat upon. And damn, it gets frustrating sometimes.

So don't be quick to throw the "primadonna" term around so much. You might wanna think about how things look from our PoV. Some tanks are tanks just because of shorter queues. But yet many people tank because they enjoy it, or at least they would if it weren't for all the greedy, whiny, jerks out there who turn what should be a fun time into a sour hour.

Just a quick fyi, i90 SCH i80 WHM i84 PLD i80 WAR so everyone decrying go try and heal and tank yourself I've BEEN doing that. Preaching to the choir about what is and is not a premadonna tank? I got Sword and Shield to 50 in 1.0 ...come at me bro if you understand that pain. Again this was a clear party, pre echo buff, and the tank decided to make it his PERSONAL GREED party AFTER he joined via PF.

I am in the unique position of having done all three roles (I'm lumping support into healing, mind), and having done it across multiple games over many years. XI, WoW, Rift, now XIV. This idea that tanking is this incredibly hard job is kind of a smokescreen. Is it challenging? It is. You have to know pretty much how everything is supposed to play out to be successful, and there is a lot of pressure on you, as a tank, to know more than the rest of the party. It's unfair, and that leads many tanks who DO possess this expected knowledge to kind of be jerks about it.

But that doesn't mean that other jobs aren't as important.

I'll give you a story to illustrate the importance of everyone being able to adapt to the changing battle and how each role is important in its own way. Last night I went into my first ever Haukke Manor. Wicked dungeon - it was like Scholomance meets Shadowfang Keep but like 99999999 times more awesome. These places really *feel* like real dungeons. Like real places.

I digress. The tank we had was really struggling, and I mean REALLY struggling squishy, couldn't keep threat, lot of deaths through that dungeon. For the most part, the party just plodded along, and many of the mobs ended with me and the other dps finishing them off as the healer went down, and then the tank. It was sloppy, REALLY sloppy. But to the party's credit, there wasn't rage or fights, just a few scattered comments and then the rest of us adapted to the tank's weaknesses.

We wiped on the first try at the last boss, and I was busy doing lamps and adds so I didn't see exactly what went on, but the second time I think the healer just gave up trying so hard to keep the tank alive. He kept him up through about the 50% mark, and then switched to healing me and the archer full time. I didn't use the LB (as drg I've been told mostly to use it) because it didn't look like it would be a good idea, and sure enough, the healer used it and we ended up downing the boss as the tank lie on the floor.

What's my point? It wasn't to bash the tank we had. I don't know why he was so squishy but I imagine it's just low gear or something. He tried his best, but if the other three of us didn't have a clue what we were doing or couldn't adapt to the changing encounter and use abilities maybe we wouldn't as a normal DPS, that party likely would have failed. Every single member of the party is important and it's really important to know all the tools at your disposal. It's easy to dismiss DPS as a robot just doing a rotation, but a good DPS can take up slack for a bad tank when needed. That was especially true in XI when you'd have like, a Samurai grab a mob if your Paladin went down or whatever. That's exactly what I was doing in that manor (except no third eye ; ;). Does it mean a DPS is meant to tank? Of course not, but taking a hit or two so the tank has a chance to get back on his feet is one of those times you need to know how to break out of that rotation and find your Bloodbath, Keen Flurry and Second Wind buttons (etc.) This idea that other jobs (and by extension, other people) are so disposable is just... it's just a sh*tty attitude.

I get that deals are made and things agreed to beforehand, but that sort of thing only works in closed groups where you are friends with everyone involved and they have a stake in your improvement. You can't join a party, tell a BLM sorry bud, I'm more important than you because I'm the tank and you are just a replaceable DPS, and expect to get what you want. That's ignorant and you don't know that he IS a replaceable DPS. This guy might know where his sleep button is. The blm you replace him with might not. In either case, it's still important to have that great DPS because I have news for you: the better your DPS, the faster and smoother the encounter goes and the more likely it will succeed if something unexpected happens.

So the moral of the story is. I dunno. I got lost somewhere in that rant.

But Haukke Manor was super @#%^ing fun.



Edited, Apr 22nd 2014 9:34am by Torrence

I think the most difficult part of tanking in XIV is that the tank is expected to be the party leader. While the mechanics of tanking are themselves not that difficult, it's assumed by the rest of the group that you know the dungeon. You know the map, you know the gimmicks of each boss, you know where to go and what to do and can relay that information to the rest of the group.

That said, Crystal Tower is sometimes full of the most derp tanks who ought to know better... but still let the Valefors fart all over the alliance.

Which is funny because our tank is silent during raids and our healer is the one who is expected to know everything/call everything. IDK if you've watched T8 healing, but it is one of the more stressful things to do in the game: especially if you try to 5 DPS it.

Same with turn 6...turn 7...and turn 9. I like it and hate it. I like the fact that they've made healing so involved. I hate it because it doesn't feel like the workload is evenly distributed.

I actually don't expect the tanks to know this anymore. I see a lot of people join a group and say hey I'm new to this what should I know as a tank. I actually don't care if they do or don't know just as long as they are willing to say for the duration of whatever thing we are doing. I take to heart that no one comes in this game being a perfect MMO player even at high levels. Its this kinda of thinking that will keep people from trying to tank. The expectation that you are all knowing. As someone else stated I have played a healer 1st, tank 2nd, and dps 3rd in EVERY MMO I HAVE EVER PLAYED. Rift Tera SWTOR WoW, etc. So when I'm not on tank and I see whoeverisplayingtank@thetime make all kinds of crazy demands, I refuse to tolerate it.

Tanking isn't hard its just unpopular.


Edited, Apr 22nd 2014 10:35am by nonameoflevi