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#152 Apr 26 2014 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
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The Atma portion was fine because the incentive was better


Not understanding this statement. The atma phase gives you literally the least incentive as it doesn't actually upgrade your weapon at all. If you're the type that likes having a fancy glowy weapon, it even (temporarily) takes that away from you too as an extra slap in the face.


I'm talking about the incentive of the grind itself. The carrot is always there - every single FATE might be the one. The element of surprise and unpredictability is always there. Maybe if you think that you'll be one of the 0,00001% unlucky ones it won't appeal to you... but I had no good reason to doubt that I would have some good luck and some bad luck for the duration of the grind. The reward is clearly not as good as in the myth grind phase, but the grind itself is (for me). It's hard to get excited about a single run for myth because there's nothing to hope for, no chance of anything exciting and unexpected happening.

It's not really a difficult concept to grasp, but some complainers just like to be in denial so they can keep whining about the grind.

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Did 891 Fates so far, and got 9 drops.


In line with what you'd expect out of the 1% drop rate too!

Edited, Apr 26th 2014 2:00pm by Hyanmen
#153 Apr 26 2014 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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It's hard to get excited about a single run for myth because there's nothing to hope for, no chance of anything exciting and unexpected happening.


For me it's hard to get excited about getting any atma drop because I know it's merely one segment of merely the first step in the upgrade process, a step which doesn't even actually reward you with anything at the end other than a reskin.

To each their own, I guess.
#154 Apr 26 2014 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
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It's hard to get excited about a single run for myth because there's nothing to hope for, no chance of anything exciting and unexpected happening.


For me it's hard to get excited about getting any atma drop because I know it's merely one segment of merely the first step in the upgrade process, a step which doesn't even actually reward you with anything at the end other than a reskin.

To each their own, I guess.


Then go do Leviathan Ex or Farm turn 5 and Coil 6-9? Would that give you more excitement when something you want drops?
#155 Apr 26 2014 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Then go do Leviathan Ex or Farm turn 5 and Coil 6-9? Would that give you more excitement when something you want drops?


Have never gotten close to even winning the former (and it's pretty hard to get practice when most groups have people that bail after 1-2 tries, even from "learning" parties, which usually results in the whole group disbanding... nor can you even try using the DF for it), and the latter is inaccessible to me.

Edited, Apr 26th 2014 10:49am by Fynlar
#156 Apr 26 2014 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
It's hard to get excited about a single run for myth because there's nothing to hope for, no chance of anything exciting and unexpected happening.


For me it's hard to get excited about getting any atma drop because I know it's merely one segment of merely the first step in the upgrade process, a step which doesn't even actually reward you with anything at the end other than a reskin.

To each their own, I guess.


You just described the Animus process. Sure you get +2 STR or something but when the point for all of us is to get all of the upgrades that one small boost does nothing to me. Especially when you know that no matter what, you will need to grind exactly X hours to get there.

But, as I said, each part of the process comes with its pro's and con's. The underlying point is that one system is not better or worse for everyone and now we have to do both. It makes us equal.
#157 Apr 26 2014 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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You just described the Animus process. Sure you get +2 STR or something but when the point for all of us is to get all of the upgrades that one small boost does nothing to me. Especially when you know that no matter what, you will need to grind exactly X hours to get there.

But, as I said, each part of the process comes with its pro's and con's. The underlying point is that one system is not better or worse for everyone and now we have to do both. It makes us equal.


You seem to be the gambler type. Given the choice you would probably spend your time at the casino hoping to get a big pay off while I prefer a steady 40 hours a week job with a garanteed pay check every week.

As for one system being better than the other, I think we can all agree that "boring" is a very subjective term but we can also all agree that one system is fair and give the same reward for the same time commitment and effort while the other is 100% luck based. When I run a dungeon I get x myth the same as you if you run the same dungeon. When you spend 10 hours farming atmas you get your 12 and I still have only 1 after spendind twice as much time. It objectively makes the luck based system worst.
#158 Apr 26 2014 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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feelz wrote:
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You just described the Animus process. Sure you get +2 STR or something but when the point for all of us is to get all of the upgrades that one small boost does nothing to me. Especially when you know that no matter what, you will need to grind exactly X hours to get there.

But, as I said, each part of the process comes with its pro's and con's. The underlying point is that one system is not better or worse for everyone and now we have to do both. It makes us equal.


You seem to be the gambler type. Given the choice you would probably spend your time at the casino hoping to get a big pay off while I prefer a steady 40 hours a week job with a garanteed pay check every week.

As for one system being better than the other, I think we can all agree that "boring" is a very subjective term but we can also all agree that one system is fair and give the same reward for the same time commitment and effort while the other is 100% luck based. When I run a dungeon I get x myth the same as you if you run the same dungeon. When you spend 10 hours farming atmas you get your 12 and I still have only 1 after spendind twice as much time. It objectively makes the luck based system worst.


Yes, you can take the comparison to the real world although the benefits and drawbacks are completely different there (I prefer the steady route IRL like you do, not only because casinos are not that "random" at all).

Anyway, in the long term all differences such as what you're saying will diminish. Everyone has streaks of good luck and bad luck. Maybe someone will fall through the cracks (even if the chance becomes smaller it is never 0%) but in all honesty few people won't make or break the system. The difference between the two is negligible at best if you keep working at it steadily over-time. It is certainly not a difference that would dictate that one system needs to be abolished from the game completely in favor of the other kind of system. Both are necessary to provide the right incentive for everyone. Though I am very content in keeping the grindy rewards below the rewards demanding skill.
#159 Apr 26 2014 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Second, have you ever actually owned a cat?

If so, grab your cat. Play with him/her for a few hours. Don't let him ever catch the string/yarn (a futile effort). After he/she grows bored of it, stop the game.

Then, the next day, try again. Is cat interested in said ribbon/string?


Or.... *gasp* You could actually let the cat catch the string now and then, and the cat will actually play longer and be happier. But how dare that cat be happy, eh? How dare that cat actually feel the sense of accomplishment when he/she catches the string now-and-then?

How dare an MMORPG gamer meet their goals in a reasonable time-table without having to play the lottery or be at the mercy of strict PUG rules.
#160 Apr 26 2014 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe someone will fall through the cracks (even if the chance becomes smaller it is never 0%) but in all honesty few people won't make or break the system. The difference between the two is negligible at best if you keep working at it steadily over-time. It is certainly not a difference that would dictate that one system needs to be abolished from the game completely in favor of the other kind of system. Both are necessary to provide the right incentive for everyone.


It doesn't need to be abolished but what about tweaking it a little to build a fail-safe so nobody falls through the cracks. Just increasing the drop rate after completing a certain number of fate in any given zone would give hope to the unlucky ones. If I know that the more fate I do the better are my chances of getting my atmas it gives me an incentive to keep farming instead of giving up because I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. People who enjoy the lottery aspect of the system could still take their chances and get lucky after 5 fates.They could also tweak the myth grind and give every fate a chance of droping myth if you have your atma weapon equiped so you could grind your myth in a luck based system while I can grind them in dungeon after getting past the atma farming in a reasonable time.

Edited, Apr 26th 2014 5:25pm by feelz
#161 Apr 26 2014 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
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Second, have you ever actually owned a cat?

If so, grab your cat. Play with him/her for a few hours. Don't let him ever catch the string/yarn (a futile effort). After he/she grows bored of it, stop the game.

Then, the next day, try again. Is cat interested in said ribbon/string?


Or.... *gasp* You could actually let the cat catch the string now and then, and the cat will actually play longer and be happier. But how dare that cat be happy, eh? How dare that cat actually feel the sense of accomplishment when he/she catches the string now-and-then?

How dare an MMORPG gamer meet their goals in a reasonable time-table without having to play the lottery or be at the mercy of strict PUG rules.


The cat already has caught the ribbon/string because he's a @#%^ing cat. Maybe you should go play with your kitty more.

Leave your poor analogies that defeat themselves at the door.

Edited, Apr 26th 2014 11:55pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#162 Apr 26 2014 at 11:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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The analogy also falls apart because the cat will move from the string to chewing on your hand in about five seconds.

My cat trolls me... lies on my desk, batting at my left hand as I type, rubbing on my mouse hand as I try to use it, trying to get my attention. And as soon as I assume he wants attention and pet him, he attacks. That is playing, to a cat. Still hurts.

I have so many scars on my hands.
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#163 Apr 27 2014 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
The analogy also falls apart because the cat will move from the string to chewing on your hand in about five seconds.

My cat trolls me... lies on my desk, batting at my left hand as I type, rubbing on my mouse hand as I try to use it, trying to get my attention. And as soon as I assume he wants attention and pet him, he attacks. That is playing, to a cat. Still hurts.

I have so many scars on my hands.


Then you guys have odd cats; none of the four cats I've ever owned have ever attacked my fingers instead of the string.

But then I usually use a plastic wand, that has a string with a bell + feathers on the end of that string. If I ever get scratched or bit, it is because the cat missed what it was aiming for and my hand was too close, not because the cat was actually aiming for my fingers.

This is, of course, not counting times I'm trolling this latest cat I have which is kinda funny sometimes, tickling the hairs on its back while its trying to watch the birds outside the window. Every now and then she'll try to nip my fingers but I'm usually fast enough to pull them away before she can.
#164 Apr 27 2014 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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lol Depends on your cat I guess?

I've had ones that do what Cat's cat does. "Screw the string! I want a nice, juicy hooman hand!"

What I do with my Tipopotamus (Tippy) is get a piece of yarn and literally run all over the house with it. He gives chase and usually ends up snagging the string before I get a chance to yoink it away from him. Yeah, he gets bored (because he's lazy!) but the next day he's ready to go again.

They can get really aggressive during string time. Tippy has never bitten me but other cats I've had in the past will get that wild look in their eye that says, "Yeah, I'm about to attack anything that moves (including your hand). Have fun! /pounce"

On topic:

Quote:
Yoshida also talked about the situation with Atma/Animus and Novus. When he announced that the Animus to Novus upgrade was going to be delayed until the next patch, he was called a Liar due to people believing the Novus upgrade wasn't complete. He explained that it is complete, however when they looked at how many people had Animus Weapons, there weren't a lot. Even going so far as mentioning that there are people on his own staff that don't have Animus yet. The majority of players are still on their 2nd or 3rd Animus Book. His staff suggested that perhaps they should lower the Myth Requirements needed to buy the books, or perhaps incorporate a Soldiery to Myth Exchange Rate.

Had they released the next quest line for the Zodiac Weapon, people would have seen it as a large wall to climb, and would become demotivated into continuing the quest any further. So they decided to delay it until the next patch to give players more time to get their Animus Weapon, but to also look at the entire situation as a whole to see if they can make any changes. He also seemed to have hinted that the next quest would be difficult, and that you you might need help from other players to get your Novus Weapon.

Also, during the Live Letter, he was playing on the PS4 on the Tonberry Server. Helping Players beat Leviathan Extreme. His Player name was accidentally shown on screen and he was being greeted by a lot of people from Tonberry from what I heard.


So..what have we learned?

You have plenty of time. They have recognized that people are behind and intentionally delaying more upgrades till it is fixed. They also will seem to address mythology costs. Wouldn't be surprised if atma drop rates were tweaked as well.

Edited, Apr 27th 2014 11:15am by HitomeOfBismarck
#165 Apr 27 2014 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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#166 Apr 27 2014 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Have never gotten close to even winning the former (and it's pretty hard to get practice when most groups have people that bail after 1-2 tries, even from "learning" parties, which usually results in the whole group disbanding... nor can you even try using the DF for it), and the latter is inaccessible to me.


To be perfectly fair, with reasonable time invested, I got my Axe from Leviathan before I finished up my Atma portion of the Relic weapon. Learning the fight from scratch with PUG's in the PF, I think I went about 1/20 for the Axe. Very glad I did it this way because I'm using the Wave Axe for everything that's not Animus book work.

I.E. If you're not grinding books mindlessy, there's a good chance the Levi EX weapons are well worth getting until you've done your Animus. I'm going to get a month or so out of mine at the very least.

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#167 Apr 28 2014 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Having finished my Atma's last weekend, looking back on it, i have to say it's not -that- bad in retrospect.

Did i grind nothing but Fates since it was implemented? Yes.
Was it mindnumbing? Definitely.
Was it a good way to obtain a new level of your weapon? Yeah, i actually feel so. It's a nice threshhold people have to step over. And then there's the 13.500 myths still to go.
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#168 Apr 28 2014 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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Well, for me I think it's time to take a break. I also did almost nothing but grind fates over and over, because,
let's face it, it is THE weapon to have. With almost nothing to show for the time invested, frustration has finally
set in, and I guess I'll take a few weeks off. My current subscription period is about to end anyway, and chances
are that when I come back requirements have been changed; at least now I have Dark Souls 2 to fill the gap.
And it's hard to argue that that one is not a game that rewards real effort, hahaha!

See you all in a few weeks!
#169 Apr 28 2014 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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In the MMORPG Model, RNG needs to be there in some form - otherwise, there would be a "feeding frenzy" on the content. As was noted earlier by Hitome, when the players leveled all characters to 50 with relics etc. Unless there is a gate or some element of chance in this type of game - people will grind it out quickly and get bored quick. Then they will complain to SE saying there is not enough content to do - when there was plenty to do.

I would say that even if SE decided to increase the drop rate on ATMA, that there would still be those unlucky to get the drop - even if it was much higher - so I doubt that would help matters.

As a developer, you are asked the question: "How do I maximize Sub fees?" and the answer is most certainly RNG / Gated Content. Granted, some will be so pissed they will quit and leave, but others will take a break and come back for more. It's all about the carrot and stick here.

Since so many people are against RNG - I guess I won't expect to see many of you in the Gold Saucer when it comes out :) That place may finally answer the question: "What do I do with all this GIL I have stockpiled??"

All SE needs to do is add some rare/shiny gear pieces in there to win for .. some random games of chance? GIL will be pumped into that place like never b4 :) It's that basic human need of acquiring "things" that never gets old right?

So, we are all in this together. I can't see how leveling the playing field in the Atma quest should/could be exclusive. RNG is apart of the whole game - whether it's trying to get a BIS piece from COIL or Levi Mirror. There is even RNG when using the DF - you get good groups and bad ones. It's everywhere, you cannot escape it or fix it without changing the whole concept of an MMORPG.

Do we want our players full too fast and run the risk of them leaving? Or give them a trail of breadcrumbs to follow?

Edited, Apr 28th 2014 4:33pm by blitz004
#170 Apr 28 2014 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Well, for me I think it's time to take a break. I also did almost nothing but grind fates over and over, because,
let's face it, it is THE weapon to have. With almost nothing to show for the time invested, frustration has finally
set in, and I guess I'll take a few weeks off. My current subscription period is about to end anyway, and chances
are that when I come back requirements have been changed; at least now I have Dark Souls 2 to fill the gap.
And it's hard to argue that that one is not a game that rewards real effort, hahaha!

See you all in a few weeks!


It's A weapon to have.

Tell me - Does the Animus weapon enhance your abilities like the Relics did in 1.0? No? Well then, lucky for you there are 3 other options and it's been proven you can get to at least turn 8 with just zenith! :D Why turn 8 you ask? Well that's the "harder content" of this game where having a zenith+ would even matter!

Remember Leviathan weapons? Turn 5 weapons? Restored ones? Yeah, you have many, many options, Animus is far from 'the' weapon to have, especially since depending on your gear setup you'd probably be better off with even the weathered weapon.

When you come back, Novus will be the "the weapon to have" and in your case, you'll be grinding even harder for it because requirements will change..but it's not going to take the grind out, the only thing they're even thinking of changing is MAYBE reducing the myth tomes needed for the books, but nothing for Atmas or the length of the Animus stage.

And with 2.3 right around the corner..even High Allagan will be outdated because that's the itemization people said "is best for an MMORPG".
#171 Apr 28 2014 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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The real issue is that spamming FATES is not fun.

No matter how you cut it, the current system makes upgrading your Relic not fun.

And players are stopping playing because of it.

Edited, Apr 28th 2014 5:17pm by Gnu
#172 Apr 28 2014 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Gnu wrote:
The real issue is that spamming FATES is not fun.

No matter how you cut it, the current system makes upgrading your Relic not fun.

And players are stopping playing because of it.

Edited, Apr 28th 2014 5:17pm by Gnu


What statistics did SE release that showed this? I still see people jam packed in Limsa and Mor Dohna, I know people stopped playing after they finished off most of the non Coil content that came with 2.2, they didn't stop because of Atma because they did the smart thing and farmed Turn 5/Leviathan when they felt like they no longer wanted to work on Animus.

The actual issue is you can tell until the expansion comes out, they really have no intention on making unique content at present time, so while spamming FATEs aren't fun, neither is killing 10 of x mobs numerous times for the Animus portion, which people have said they don't mind the book grinding even though you're doing exactly what you did with FATE grinding that you didn't find fun. Grinding level 49-50 monsters gives you no benefit either honestly.

When players stopped playing because of lack of content, e.g blowing through 2.1's content in a week, yeah, that made sense people stopped playing then, but because of 1 part of a questline when you have multiple options available to you? Unlikely, and those that did quit because of it would have quit no matter what SE did if it didn't borderline hand you everything.

It does always come back to wanting to be handed stuff, kind of like how little kids usually say "I don't want to play anymore" when you don't let them have their way? Yeah. If they don't want 'handouts' and 'something fun', Leviathan is an easy and fun fight, people say they don't mind grinding if its fun, right? Well there ya go. Twintania is fun too, lots of mechanics, no random FATEs to grind.

#173 Apr 28 2014 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Are you saying upgrading Relic is not important?

Are you saying grinding FATES is fun?

What I hear you saying is that this part of the game can be not fun, because it's not important and other parts of the game are fun.

There really is no reason to play FFXIV other than to have fun, so things that are not fun are fair game for criticism.
#174 Apr 28 2014 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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It does always come back to wanting to be handed stuff, kind of like how little kids usually say "I don't want to play anymore" when you don't let them have their way? Yeah. If they don't want 'handouts' and 'something fun', Leviathan is an easy and fun fight, people say they don't mind grinding if its fun, right? Well there ya go. Twintania is fun too, lots of mechanics, no random FATEs to grind.


Except you keep missing the part where people are saying "We're willing to put work into it, but we don't like the RNG-ness of it."

PUG groups can be horrible at times, and hey. Maybe a player isn't geared for Twintania or Leviathan, and they want a leg up using the solo-obtainable weapon? Is that such a horrible thing?

They aren't asking for it to be handed to them, they wanted something slightly different than "play the lottery until you get all the atmas to drop".

I really don't understand why that's so hard for some people to understand. Not everybody loves worshipping the RNG gods. Some people enjoy tangible goals to work towards, some people enjoy progress they can see. With RNG, you could get it on the very first FATE, or you could get it 300 FATEs later. You just don't know and there's literally no progress to be had; you just do it until the game feels like giving it to you. At least with the Myth grind, you know you're making progress when you have 10% of the Myth done... 25% of the Myth done, 50% of the Myth done... hey cool I'm halfway! 75% of the Myth, 90% of the Myth, yaaay almost there!

You don't get that with the Atma grinding. It is "I might get it next FATE.... no, maybe the next one?" *50 FATEs later* "Am I ever gonna get the damn thing?"
#175 Apr 28 2014 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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I dunno, the RNGness is still slightly better than collecting 1500 metal plates, which is still my gold standard of Meanest Thing Square Enix Ever Did. At least with Dynamis currency, you know you'll walk out of a run with SOME coins. With Salvage runs, you know you'll walk out of the dungeon with SOME alexes.

With Voidwatch, you could spam the same NM for hours at a time and never see a single plate, let alone any pouches of plates.

Imagine instead of 12 Atma... you had to get 1500. Smiley: frown
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#176 Apr 28 2014 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
I dunno, the RNGness is still slightly better than collecting 1500 metal plates, which is still my gold standard of Meanest Thing Square Enix Ever Did. At least with Dynamis currency, you know you'll walk out of a run with SOME coins. With Salvage runs, you know you'll walk out of the dungeon with SOME alexes.

With Voidwatch, you could spam the same NM for hours at a time and never see a single plate, let alone any pouches of plates.

Imagine instead of 12 Atma... you had to get 1500. Smiley: frown


That's why RNG + Huge Grind is even worse than "Just RNG".

RNG for 1 item, meh.
RNG for a few items, yuck.
RNG for a huge number of items.....hell no.

And Final Fantasy XI... as long as I played that game, and as much as I still have fond memories of it... it was/is filled with some of the most demented messed up crap, and IMO, we really shouldn't be comparing XI to XIV; they are very different games with very different philosophies behind their design.
#177 Apr 29 2014 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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I still don't get why you are so opposed to RNG systems when this is one of the few RNG systems in the game? The other one is in coil and you don't have to deal with that (admittedly).

If I can put together a PF group to do Twin (this was when we were only getting a 10% echo buff) and succeed, I'm sure you can do the same. FFXIV App has a wonderful Twintracker plugin that makes this fight a no brainer after you've done some of the research.

Leviathan is also extremely easy compared to the past primals. I have had soooooo much success in PF Levi Ex groups compared to 2.1's Titan Ex groups.

Turn 6 can currently be completed with i90 gear and MAYBE an Allagan weapon. I would argue you don't even need the Allagan weapon but...meh. What do I know anyways? You know my FC wrote a guide for Turn 6, right, that can be found here? We discovered the trick a little after other FCs had but they had not publicly posted it.

OK: so you don't have enough time to attempt coil every week or the numbers to do so.

What is gating you from trying Leviathan? It really frustrates me. I would like to be on some of your servers so that I could get you through this content. Just this weekend I did Titan Ex in a PF group (2 shot) and Leviathan Ex farming (5 successful runs out of 7). I would love to put together a turn 5 group for you all as well.

It gets me thinking: perhaps we can set aside a time for us all to queue into DF at once. We can communicate via TS/Mumble/Vent/whatever. Similar to how premade Alterac Valleys happened in WoW.

If you're really serious about it, I will be glad to teach you and get you through the fight.

Before doing so please realize:

-In T5, you will be subjected to RNG
-In Levi, you will be subjected to RNG
-In turn 6, you will be subjected to RNG
-In all current coil turns (outside of T3), you are subjected to RNG

This is a quote from my profile:
Quote:
RNG (3/31/14):
0/26 weeks + 15 runs = 1/41 - Allagan Breeches of Casting


6 and a half months without seeing the drop I needed. I had to wait till 2.2 when turn 4 was farmable and even THEN it still took 15 runs.

Did I complain? Maybe a little but never on the forums. Did it bar me from completing anything in the game? No. My FC held server second Twin (first FC broke apart shortly after). All using my myth legs and getting by with what I had. I had to wait 15 weeks to get my Allagan scepter as well. So I was doing this content with my zenith weapon and, then later, the extreme primal staff that is rewarded after completing all three.

This is why I will always ask: why do you need it right this moment? I'm currently in turn 9. My gear is really bad for this turn but somehow we are able to get her to 45% before we wipe. It's a DPS issue in some instances but, for a BLM, my DPS is actually pretty good.

Skill will always, ALWAYS reign supreme. This is why I did Titan HM in mostly Demagogue and sh*tty gear but managed to stay alive and do the most DPS.

I'm really getting mixed signals. You want progression based on skill and there are several paths that require it. Why shy away from it? Join a PF group and test your skills there. You can be pretty undergeared and still be successful in most things in this game if you know what you're doing. Would I recommend it? No. Point is: skill goes a long way. A shiny animus weapon is nice to have but not necessary to beat these fights!

Let me break it down for you:

Turn 6 - Beatable with i90 gear and weapons
Turn 7 - Beatable with i90 gear + Levi caliber (tidal) weapons
Turn 8 - Beatable with ~i95 gear + Levi caliber (tidal) weapons
Turn 9 - Beatable with ~i98 gear + Tome weapon (with sand)

What I am seeing is people wanting animus weapons when they aren't doing content that really requires them. For old coil, you have the echo buff. For the extreme primals, you have the echo buff.

Gnu brought up a point to me the other day regarding turn 7. He is the only person I have talked to where I would say an animus weapon would be beneficial to getting him through a specific turn. Problem: after you beat turn 7, you have access to the unidentified tome which gives you a weathered weapon. These can be upgraded to i110 after downing T8 which, honestly, isn't that hard compared to T7: it's just a big DPS check.

Perhaps you can just clear up the confusion. If not interested in Levi or Coil, why must you have the animus so soon?

My answer would be: because it's @#%^ing shiny that's why. But those are aesthetics. :P
#179 Apr 29 2014 at 6:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless there's ever going to be a way we're allowed to participate in content without having to use Teamspeak or something similar, i'm not going to be able to do coil.

We can type, we have been for many many years. We know the fights, you can make macro's for call-outs or whatever. There's no reason why we have to take up TS to listen to some guy who sounds like a 12 year old girl who's screaming at us each and every time.
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#180 Apr 29 2014 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Unless there's ever going to be a way we're allowed to participate in content without having to use Teamspeak or something similar, i'm not going to be able to do coil.

We can type, we have been for many many years. We know the fights, you can make macro's for call-outs or whatever. There's no reason why we have to take up TS to listen to some guy who sounds like a 12 year old girl who's screaming at us each and every time.


I used to think like this too, until my friend had me try Skype.

There's.... just something.... about real-time conversation that makes things a LOT easier.

We did a few Heroic Dungeons in WoW (he was new to WoW) and I was sending him /tells before some pulls telling him what to do and he goes "get on skype" and I was like "...why?"

Well, let's just say now we use Skype for EVERYTHING we do in games almost, unless we're just there to do one thing real quick. Not only can you explain crap fast and easy, while you're also doing stuff, you can talk about other stuff too! Oh, and sometimes emergencies happen; you don't have time to type that stuff out.

I used to be "bleck" about VoIP but now I love it. I've tried it, and I see why it is awesome.

RE@Hitome: As I've said before, RNG in dungeons is OK, because a boss always drops something. It might not be the exact thing you're looking for, but that boss will drop something that's usable for somebody and the fight is usually fun and interesting (which is why people do it).

However, when you're doing solo fates... just admit it: You can't even try to compare some Lv5-20 FATE to Twintania, Leviathan, etc in terms of complexity, challenge, and/or how interesting it is to actually do. You feel that sense of "We won! Yay!" when you take these bosses down even if they are not as hard as they used to be. I can't remember the last time I killed 20 squirrels in a Lv5 FATE and go "YAY I WON!"

And.... well, if you don't get the Atma out of a FATE, you get nothing except 20-40 GC seals and 20 gil. At least if I were fighting a boss, something would drop that someone gets to benefit from, maybe even me. It might not be the specific item I need, but maybe it is an item that nobody else needs and I can greed on it and win it for another class. Your example above with the pants... how many times have you done that content and gotten items for other classes? Not the pants, but other items? Sure you're 0/26 or whatever that said (forum system isn't letting me see your post because I actually hit reply on Kojiro's post instead), but surely you got at least a few items out of those runs even if they weren't the pants, right?

EDIT: And I never said I wasn't interested in Levi or Coil -- the weapon is a solo-obtainable weapon, and as such is clearly the "you should get this first". That way when I do enter Levi or Coil with that weapon, I will perform much better than I would without it! That's the way I've always approached games -- I obtain the best stuff I can through solo obtainable means before tackling group content at max level, that way I can perform the best I can before dipping my toes into endgame waters. I see lots of noobs wearing absolute junk in dungeons, and I see how much that sucks, and I don't want to be that guy who walks into a dungeon undergeared.

Edited, Apr 29th 2014 9:02am by Lyrailis
#181 Apr 29 2014 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Unless there's ever going to be a way we're allowed to participate in content without having to use Teamspeak or something similar, i'm not going to be able to do coil.

We can type, we have been for many many years. We know the fights, you can make macro's for call-outs or whatever. There's no reason why we have to take up TS to listen to some guy who sounds like a 12 year old girl who's screaming at us each and every time.


I'm willing to go off-topic here. What is holding you back from using voice chat? You don't have a PC? You don't have a microphone? Even playing on console you can just have you PC on next to it for voice chat only.

Even my PS3 (now PS4) buddy gets on Skype with us through his cell-phone.

You know what is fun about FFXIV? Getting together with friends and playing together, especially the challenging exciting content. The most difficult content is complex and needs a great deal of communication. Working together to overcome obstacles is the source of the greatest satisfaction for me. And voice chat is a huge player in that.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that FFXIV with voice chat is simply more fun than FFXIV without it.

#182 Apr 29 2014 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also, this caught my eye:

Quote:
There's no reason why we have to take up TS to listen to some guy who sounds like a 12 year old girl who's screaming at us each and every time.


If you're going in with a group of friends, then you probably won't have any guys that sound like 12 year old girls and they surely shouldn't be raging.

I wouldn't want to do a PUG with VoIP, no. But groups of friends, sometimes it is fun to just talk about random stuff during slow times. And if you use a good headset (I have a Razer Banshee which works really nice) you can just lower the mic boom and it is almost like they're in the room with you, you don't need no PTT or anything (at least with Skype). And with good headphones, nobody IRL can overhear the conversation (except for my end).
#183 Apr 29 2014 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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In my case, my computer is in the living room, five feet from the kitchen. There is constant noise around me and half the time I am on mute. Being on Teamspeak or Mumble means I'll have to wear a headset, and after 10 minutes in the one I have with a built in microphone my ears are burning in pain, and people are bitching about how loud I type.

I prefer to not use voice chat unless it's absolutely required, like it was in Salvage in XI. And then we had to deal with our leader going "daddy's BUSY" to one of his six kids every five minutes. Smiley: lol
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#184 Apr 29 2014 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Unless there's ever going to be a way we're allowed to participate in content without having to use Teamspeak or something similar, i'm not going to be able to do coil


The only use people have for Skype/TS is to call out the monster script if you don't know it yourself or somehow still fail even knowing it and aren't observant. You can easily beat most if not all content in this game without vocal chat.
#185 Apr 29 2014 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
Unless there's ever going to be a way we're allowed to participate in content without having to use Teamspeak or something similar, i'm not going to be able to do coil.

We can type, we have been for many many years. We know the fights, you can make macro's for call-outs or whatever. There's no reason why we have to take up TS to listen to some guy who sounds like a 12 year old girl who's screaming at us each and every time.


I'm willing to go off-topic here. What is holding you back from using voice chat? You don't have a PC? You don't have a microphone? Even playing on console you can just have you PC on next to it for voice chat only.

Even my PS3 (now PS4) buddy gets on Skype with us through his cell-phone.

You know what is fun about FFXIV? Getting together with friends and playing together, especially the challenging exciting content. The most difficult content is complex and needs a great deal of communication. Working together to overcome obstacles is the source of the greatest satisfaction for me. And voice chat is a huge player in that.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that FFXIV with voice chat is simply more fun than FFXIV without it.


I'm a very considerate guy, and my pc is also in the living room. I dont want to talk loudly through a microphone (especially with headsets) when people a few feet over are watching tv or are doing something else. I would be a bother to them, and my voice carries through the house. Voice-chat is not, and never will be in the forseeable future, an option for me because of that.

That, and the fact that everyone has a diffirent accent, voice or understanding of words. It's anoying.

Lastly, i have to talk all day, when i come home to play a game, i want to be able to just sit down and relax and keep my mouth shut for a bit. Being able to advance on my "relaxing" game only if i use voice-chat is a major inconvenience to me. Especially considdering there's absolutely nothing wrong with simply typing things out like we have done (succesfully) for the past... what? 15 years now? Yet suddenly such practices are seen as the devil apparently.
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#186 Apr 29 2014 at 8:27 AM Rating: Decent
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EzrealMcFeeder wrote:
Why is HitomeOfBismarck so gosh darn angry that people don't like this? It's not the RNG factor for me (and other areas of the game already had RNG). It just freakin' sucks and it's boring. Maybe if we were talking about a fun activity, then insanely rates could be acceptable on some level.


I think it's the fact the people who hate this/upset with this usually:

1. Ignore that there are ALTERNATIVES YOU CAN GET IF YOU DECIDE YOU WANT TO ACTUALLY TRY TO GET THEM INSTEAD OF BRUSHING THEM OFF.
2. Would rather complain and have SE change stuff than go for said alternatives.
3. Twist someone's words to state they say Relics aren't important despite Yoshida himself stating Relics will never be the best weapons you can obtain in this game and will only be upgraded in order to keep them from being too obsolete every patch.

It's very, very simple. Don't like one path? It upsets you so much? It frustrates you? Go do something else fun...like..oh, I don't know..clearing actual content or fighting a god damn primal which is more fun than sitting around spamming FATEs?

People ask why is it so hard to understand that people hate this and want something other than this RNG FATE grind? Well, why is it so hard to understand SE gave you multiple paths and sometimes said alternates actually being better? 15% coil buff makes Turn 5 childs play unless you simply can't clear content due to your own skill or none of your friends/FC/LS who cleared it wants to help you.

Know what that's called? A player problem, not a design issue. You're guaranteed Loot in Leviathan and Coil, but not always 100% what you wanted, but depending on loot rules, you will come out with more loot over time than you would farming Atmas if you still can't get them at this point.
#187 Apr 29 2014 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
I still don't get why you are so opposed to RNG systems when this is one of the few RNG systems in the game? The other one is in coil and you don't have to deal with that (admittedly).

If I can put together a PF group to do Twin (this was when we were only getting a 10% echo buff) and succeed, I'm sure you can do the same. FFXIV App has a wonderful Twintracker plugin that makes this fight a no brainer after you've done some of the research.

Leviathan is also extremely easy compared to the past primals. I have had soooooo much success in PF Levi Ex groups compared to 2.1's Titan Ex groups.

Turn 6 can currently be completed with i90 gear and MAYBE an Allagan weapon. I would argue you don't even need the Allagan weapon but...meh. What do I know anyways? You know my FC wrote a guide for Turn 6, right, that can be found here? We discovered the trick a little after other FCs had but they had not publicly posted it.

OK: so you don't have enough time to attempt coil every week or the numbers to do so.

What is gating you from trying Leviathan? It really frustrates me. I would like to be on some of your servers so that I could get you through this content. Just this weekend I did Titan Ex in a PF group (2 shot) and Leviathan Ex farming (5 successful runs out of 7). I would love to put together a turn 5 group for you all as well.

It gets me thinking: perhaps we can set aside a time for us all to queue into DF at once. We can communicate via TS/Mumble/Vent/whatever. Similar to how premade Alterac Valleys happened in WoW.

If you're really serious about it, I will be glad to teach you and get you through the fight.

Before doing so please realize:

-In T5, you will be subjected to RNG
-In Levi, you will be subjected to RNG
-In turn 6, you will be subjected to RNG
-In all current coil turns (outside of T3), you are subjected to RNG

This is a quote from my profile:
Quote:
RNG (3/31/14):
0/26 weeks + 15 runs = 1/41 - Allagan Breeches of Casting


6 and a half months without seeing the drop I needed. I had to wait till 2.2 when turn 4 was farmable and even THEN it still took 15 runs.

Did I complain? Maybe a little but never on the forums. Did it bar me from completing anything in the game? No. My FC held server second Twin (first FC broke apart shortly after). All using my myth legs and getting by with what I had. I had to wait 15 weeks to get my Allagan scepter as well. So I was doing this content with my zenith weapon and, then later, the extreme primal staff that is rewarded after completing all three.

This is why I will always ask: why do you need it right this moment? I'm currently in turn 9. My gear is really bad for this turn but somehow we are able to get her to 45% before we wipe. It's a DPS issue in some instances but, for a BLM, my DPS is actually pretty good.

Skill will always, ALWAYS reign supreme. This is why I did Titan HM in mostly Demagogue and sh*tty gear but managed to stay alive and do the most DPS.

I'm really getting mixed signals. You want progression based on skill and there are several paths that require it. Why shy away from it? Join a PF group and test your skills there. You can be pretty undergeared and still be successful in most things in this game if you know what you're doing. Would I recommend it? No. Point is: skill goes a long way. A shiny animus weapon is nice to have but not necessary to beat these fights!

Let me break it down for you:

Turn 6 - Beatable with i90 gear and weapons
Turn 7 - Beatable with i90 gear + Levi caliber (tidal) weapons
Turn 8 - Beatable with ~i95 gear + Levi caliber (tidal) weapons
Turn 9 - Beatable with ~i98 gear + Tome weapon (with sand)

What I am seeing is people wanting animus weapons when they aren't doing content that really requires them. For old coil, you have the echo buff. For the extreme primals, you have the echo buff.

Gnu brought up a point to me the other day regarding turn 7. He is the only person I have talked to where I would say an animus weapon would be beneficial to getting him through a specific turn. Problem: after you beat turn 7, you have access to the unidentified tome which gives you a weathered weapon. These can be upgraded to i110 after downing T8 which, honestly, isn't that hard compared to T7: it's just a big DPS check.

Perhaps you can just clear up the confusion. If not interested in Levi or Coil, why must you have the animus so soon?

My answer would be: because it's @#%^ing shiny that's why. But those are aesthetics. :P



I haven't seen a PF run for Titan EX since about 3 days after 2.2 dropped. DF is pointless for anything past turn 4, if you're lucky. I don't even bother hitting Trials in roulette any more. I'm once again regretting that I paid for 6 months up front. My progression is pretty much frozen at Titan and Turn 5.
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#188 Apr 29 2014 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's very, very simple. Don't like one path? It upsets you so much? It frustrates you? Go do something else fun...like..oh, I don't know..clearing actual content or fighting a god damn primal which is more fun than sitting around spamming FATEs?


So basically you yourself are saying that grinding FATEs sucks and is boring compared to average endgame material.

Games should be fun, not boring. How is that hard to understand?

Quote:
People ask why is it so hard to understand that people hate this and want something other than this RNG FATE grind? Well, why is it so hard to understand SE gave you multiple paths and sometimes said alternates actually being better? 15% coil buff makes Turn 5 childs play unless you simply can't clear content due to your own skill or none of your friends/FC/LS who cleared it wants to help you.


So basically, you're saying "Well, if you think 1 path sucks, you should just forget about it. Let's not FIX that path to make it better, and more appealing, let's just forget it even exists".

*rolls eyes*

Right, let's NOT improve the game, let's NOT make the game more fun, let's NOT fix something that very few people seem to like just because options do exist (that not everybody can do). That's awesome game design philosophy, innit?

And don't even pull the "You wanted it handed to you" card. Don't even try that. We've stated NUMEROUS times that we DON'T want it handed to us, we want it to be somehow Interesting, and not "Play the Lottery". Progression-based. Not "You might get it in 5 times or 500 times". We're willing to put due work in to get it, but grinding out low level FATEs is just boring no matter who you are, whether you're the Fresh 50 barely able to start the quest, or the veteran endgamer who's cleared most of the content.
#189 Apr 29 2014 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
I still don't get why you are so opposed to RNG systems when this is one of the few RNG systems in the game? The other one is in coil and you don't have to deal with that (admittedly).

If I can put together a PF group to do Twin (this was when we were only getting a 10% echo buff) and succeed, I'm sure you can do the same. FFXIV App has a wonderful Twintracker plugin that makes this fight a no brainer after you've done some of the research.

Leviathan is also extremely easy compared to the past primals. I have had soooooo much success in PF Levi Ex groups compared to 2.1's Titan Ex groups.

Turn 6 can currently be completed with i90 gear and MAYBE an Allagan weapon. I would argue you don't even need the Allagan weapon but...meh. What do I know anyways? You know my FC wrote a guide for Turn 6, right, that can be found here? We discovered the trick a little after other FCs had but they had not publicly posted it.

OK: so you don't have enough time to attempt coil every week or the numbers to do so.

What is gating you from trying Leviathan? It really frustrates me. I would like to be on some of your servers so that I could get you through this content. Just this weekend I did Titan Ex in a PF group (2 shot) and Leviathan Ex farming (5 successful runs out of 7). I would love to put together a turn 5 group for you all as well.

It gets me thinking: perhaps we can set aside a time for us all to queue into DF at once. We can communicate via TS/Mumble/Vent/whatever. Similar to how premade Alterac Valleys happened in WoW.

If you're really serious about it, I will be glad to teach you and get you through the fight.

Before doing so please realize:

-In T5, you will be subjected to RNG
-In Levi, you will be subjected to RNG
-In turn 6, you will be subjected to RNG
-In all current coil turns (outside of T3), you are subjected to RNG

This is a quote from my profile:
Quote:
RNG (3/31/14):
0/26 weeks + 15 runs = 1/41 - Allagan Breeches of Casting


6 and a half months without seeing the drop I needed. I had to wait till 2.2 when turn 4 was farmable and even THEN it still took 15 runs.

Did I complain? Maybe a little but never on the forums. Did it bar me from completing anything in the game? No. My FC held server second Twin (first FC broke apart shortly after). All using my myth legs and getting by with what I had. I had to wait 15 weeks to get my Allagan scepter as well. So I was doing this content with my zenith weapon and, then later, the extreme primal staff that is rewarded after completing all three.

This is why I will always ask: why do you need it right this moment? I'm currently in turn 9. My gear is really bad for this turn but somehow we are able to get her to 45% before we wipe. It's a DPS issue in some instances but, for a BLM, my DPS is actually pretty good.

Skill will always, ALWAYS reign supreme. This is why I did Titan HM in mostly Demagogue and sh*tty gear but managed to stay alive and do the most DPS.

I'm really getting mixed signals. You want progression based on skill and there are several paths that require it. Why shy away from it? Join a PF group and test your skills there. You can be pretty undergeared and still be successful in most things in this game if you know what you're doing. Would I recommend it? No. Point is: skill goes a long way. A shiny animus weapon is nice to have but not necessary to beat these fights!

Let me break it down for you:

Turn 6 - Beatable with i90 gear and weapons
Turn 7 - Beatable with i90 gear + Levi caliber (tidal) weapons
Turn 8 - Beatable with ~i95 gear + Levi caliber (tidal) weapons
Turn 9 - Beatable with ~i98 gear + Tome weapon (with sand)

What I am seeing is people wanting animus weapons when they aren't doing content that really requires them. For old coil, you have the echo buff. For the extreme primals, you have the echo buff.

Gnu brought up a point to me the other day regarding turn 7. He is the only person I have talked to where I would say an animus weapon would be beneficial to getting him through a specific turn. Problem: after you beat turn 7, you have access to the unidentified tome which gives you a weathered weapon. These can be upgraded to i110 after downing T8 which, honestly, isn't that hard compared to T7: it's just a big DPS check.

Perhaps you can just clear up the confusion. If not interested in Levi or Coil, why must you have the animus so soon?

My answer would be: because it's @#%^ing shiny that's why. But those are aesthetics. :P



I haven't seen a PF run for Titan EX since about 3 days after 2.2 dropped. DF is pointless for anything past turn 4, if you're lucky. I don't even bother hitting Trials in roulette any more. I'm once again regretting that I paid for 6 months up front. My progression is pretty much frozen at Titan and Turn 5.


Just a quick note. As a fellow Ultros resident, I have to say that there are Titan EX PFs still out there. I would know, because I've been trying to clear that fight for over 2 weeks straight via a mix of DF and PF. Perhaps you're just missing them due to fast fill ups/timezone/on at not so active hours/etc.

Anyway, carry on everyone. :p
#190 Apr 29 2014 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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It could be. I guess I could always start one too. After the amount of time I've put into not clearing the fight I kinda just don't care right now.

Funny enough what put on my little mini-break starting Sunday morning was the WAR in CB HM. He had defiance up and my WHM had more HP than he did... I tried running high level roulette three times in a row and there he was every time. He couldn't keep hate, and we were down a DPS by the first boss two times in a row. The third time the queue popped and there he was, I just turned around and left. Haven't logged on since. Maybe that's childish of me, but it's kinda how I'm feeling about the game right now.
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#191 Apr 29 2014 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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But the next patch will have one dungeon. You don't want to miss that.
#192 Apr 29 2014 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think we may be feeling the same way.

Maybe it's a matter of perspective and expectations. I don't know. But I'm pretty disappointed with what I'm able to accomplish when I log in right now. The way it looks to me today, here are my options:

Level another class/job...which will only wind up getting me to where I am now.
Die infinite number of times to content I know I could clear if I could find 7 other people competent enough to clear it with me.
Farm myth tomes for books to level up a weapon useful for content I currently have no hope of experiencing.
Craft/Gather to make stuff that's completely useless.

It just feels a lot like banging my head against a wall with no hope I'll make a crack in it. I'm open to suggestions lol
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#194 Apr 29 2014 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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On Hyperion the success rate at Levi EX is 75% or so in PF groups, at least the ones I've been joining. It's fun to farm when your group is winning, so that's where I'm at most of the time.

The split between the casual content and the hardcore Endgame content is stark. Casual content is easy, perhaps too easy. And then the Endgame stuff is so unforgiving that players aren't willing to stick around when they see 1 player make a silly mistake. "Come on guys, let's just go again." At least give it two shots before quitting. I've seen a good majority of wins in the second run of a party - turns out some of those parties are excellent farm parties. Wipe once and then go on to win 6 straight.

EVERY win I've had a Titan EX is the 2nd or 3rd or 5th run through. Even with a full team of pro-players mistakes are made. If players just leave after one loss they turn it into a waste of time for everyone. I have not won in any of the Titan EX - Party Finder groups lately. I am always the last to die, which is a good deal of personal improvement. But finding 7 who can stay alive the whole time? *sigh*

And that's why I keep asking for more battle content. I want things that bridge the gap between Easy and Insanely Hard. Moogle EX is a good example. I would like a dungeon version of that. A dungeon that is random and chaotic and challenging, not requiring memorization and dodging, but rather focusing on understanding mechanics and working together.

Brayflox is getting stale, no surprise there. I've farmed the Coil 1-5 dungeons pretty thoroughly for gear I want. The next step is Coil 6, but that requires a group willing to lose together until they can win. Can't T6 without a static, which I'm trying to build now

I'm not complaining about lack content right now, I'm happy with Patch 2.2 overall. I'm just stating the content I WANT to see next.

PS: nothing involving FATES please

#195 Apr 29 2014 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
And that's why I keep asking for more battle content. I want things that bridge the gap between Easy and Insanely Hard. Moogle EX is a good example. I would like a dungeon version of that. A dungeon that is random and chaotic and challenging, not requiring memorization and dodging, but rather focusing on understanding mechanics and working together.


Agree 100 percent.

Too much of the difficulty in this game is limited to dodging, and fights where one or two mistakes result in certain death are just frustrating. They also don't really require much strategy.

This probably won't come until the expansion, but I really hope we eventually see content where fights are determined not by reacting to mob AoE, but by decisions made by players in the heat of the moment. Back in FFXI, some of my favorite fights were the ones that dragged on for nearly half an hour while we improvised our way to victory. The battles in XIV are so scripted so far, that it's really difficult to achieve that same degree of satisfaction.

Like, there's literally just one strategy for beating Titan... one strategy for Ifrit... one strategy for Garuda... etc. It shouldn't be that way. Different party setups should provide you with different tools to clear out content in unique ways. Otherwise, there's not really a whole lot of purpose in leveling various jobs.
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#196 Apr 29 2014 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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On Hyperion the success rate at Levi EX is 75% or so in PF groups, at least the ones I've been joining.


Consider yourself lucky, because it's a big fat zero for me and I'm on the same server. Haven't even seen past the first Tidal Wave, so haven't even been getting close.

Almost every group I've joined has had someone quit after 1-2 tries, and almost every group I've had where that happens the rest of the group ends up falling apart and splitting too.
#197 Apr 30 2014 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Unless there's ever going to be a way we're allowed to participate in content without having to use Teamspeak or something similar, i'm not going to be able to do coil.

We can type, we have been for many many years. We know the fights, you can make macro's for call-outs or whatever. There's no reason why we have to take up TS to listen to some guy who sounds like a 12 year old girl who's screaming at us each and every time.


I don't sound like a 12 year old teenage girl. :(

I agree about typing but it has been made clear to me that people actually need me to hold their hands in raids over TS.

All my T5 PF groups never require a voice chat program. I assume you are 1) running TwinTracker and 2) know the fight well enough/can pay attention to my divebomb macro.

I actually don't like using chat programs since I focus the best when I am streaming music in the background/not listening to other people panic.

Quote:
RE@Hitome: As I've said before, RNG in dungeons is OK, because a boss always drops something. It might not be the exact thing you're looking for, but that boss will drop something that's usable for somebody and the fight is usually fun and interesting (which is why people do it).


Not after:

1) Everyone in the group has the item and it drops to the floor
and
2) You've been doing that fight for 25 weeks

Just as boring as grinding anything else at that point. The one point you do have, though, is that having unusable abilities during FATEs isn't fun. Why couldn't they just scale potencies based on FATE level and allow you to have access to all your abilities (GW2)? I'm guessing because 1) people will still find something broken (like AoEing down stuff when some jobs don't have strong AoE), 2) unfair advantages to high level players compared to new players, and 3) lazy design.

Why are other drops relevant to me? I can only really main one job in current stuff like the second coil due to gated designs. It's very frustrating to have another job at 50 ready to go into coil in case, oh, a WHM or SCH has to leave early or wants a change of pace only to realize, due to gating, my gear isn't up to snuff so I'm stuck on one job the entire patch.

Gating has issues as well which are more threatening to people with multiple jobs leveled and those of us who have more free time on our hands. RNG remedies this.

A perfect system? No. But will we ever come to a consensus on a perfect system? Some of us think WoW's current system is nice but others have pointed out flaws in it. And, it relies on RNG as well just as it always has but also has gated content in the form of dailies and currencies like 14.




There seems to be a quote by a poster that was deleted but I'll respond anyways: I'm not mad that people like or dislike this addition to 14. What I am irritated by is ignoring other progression paths, the desire to obtain the animus ASAP without any logical reason, and obtuse responses.

Maybe you all think I am in love with the Zodiark system but I am still on book 1, you know? The staff looks awesome but even that isn't enough motivation to do FATEs, grind a dungeon I dislike, and do other mind numbing tasks. I simply avoid doing what I don't like.

Both Hitome and Hito Yu could use another job at 50 but that isn't happening either until I see some changes to leveling (probably won't happen). I feel like I have enough to do right now between school and second turn progression. Most of my crafting friends are continually busy gathering and crafting new stuff at the moment so I know there is plenty to do in that area.

Maybe you are right: maybe people who want an extra challenge but can't do raiding deserve some more content in that area.

Two things:

1) Extreme primals were the answer to this and were received poorly
2) This was my complaint 4 months ago (lack of content/rehashing things) and wasn't really popular on these forums because apparently there were so many other things to do

This is probably what irks me the most.




Anyways, like I said: the offer still stands. We could all queue into DF at the same time and hope to end up in the same group. Only thing that would be required is a voice chat to set up the initial matchmaking.

Might be fun to have a ZAM get together day for those of us on different servers.

Edited, Apr 30th 2014 8:34pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#198 Apr 30 2014 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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Must be nice to assume everyone you're playing with is on the PC :)

I don't mind people using parsers and plug-ins and all that junk, but what exactly does Twintracker do?

Since I'm on the PS4, as are a great many other people, I have no idea.
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#199 Apr 30 2014 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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I'd definitely like to take you up on that offer, though I wish we had some sort of cross-server manual friendlist/grouping thing like WoW has but who knows maybe someday, lol.

But at any rate, when I get up to that point I'll let you know: been having to deal with RL stuff lately so my climb to 50 is a bit slower than it should be. Some days I barely have enough time to do about half of the GC Craft recipes each day (some of them I end up buying out of the market if they're cheap enough).

But once the remodeling of the gaming room gets done hopefully I'll have some more time and I can get myself up to that content. The reason I've been kinda "eh" over the RNG nature of Atmas, is when I do finally get there, I don't want to be 2-3+ patches behind and be caught in an endless catch-up quagmire.

So hopefully they tweak it or something by the time I do get there.
#200 Apr 30 2014 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
And don't even pull the "You wanted it handed to you" card. Don't even try that. We've stated NUMEROUS times that we DON'T want it handed to us, we want it to be somehow Interesting, and not "Play the Lottery". Progression-based. Not "You might get it in 5 times or 500 times". We're willing to put due work in to get it, but grinding out low level FATEs is just boring no matter who you are, whether you're the Fresh 50 barely able to start the quest, or the veteran endgamer who's cleared most of the content.


That didn't answer my question as to why you're not "working hard" for a Turn 5 weapon or Leviathan weapon with your FC/LS/Friends? You don't want to grind low level fates?

There are OTHER PATHS TO TAKE FOR A GOOD WEAPON. Which as I said, people who are complaining about this seem to continually ignore or brush off because they "can't do it". Everyone wants the game to improve, but the reasoning is pretty silly when SE gave you multiple paths in the first place. The reason I "pull that card" is because that's all it seems to what people want in the long run.

I mean hell, kill Twintania you're always guaranteed drops compared to Atma farming, why not farm....something that isn't low level FATEs? So once again I ask, why are you willing to "put in due work" for atmas but not for Leviathan, Turn 5 or 'Mythics', as in the other weapons available to you? Like I said, you may not always see the drop you personally wanted, but it's a much better system than the atmas. If they improve that and the people bitching about Atmas see that you need tons of Myth tomes for the next part? Guess what? You know people will bitch the myth cost is "too high"...then we go right back around to the beginning and it will honestly seem like people do want stuff handed to them, which is why Yoshi said the only adjustment they're even somewhat considering is a reduction in myth tomes.

So, if this is the only weapon you want and you ignore every other path, you're only torturing yourself honestly if this is that painful. I despite FATEs in all forms in FFXIV because they're not even really "FATEs' to begin with, I already got all my Atmas and whatnot and like the Animus progression, but I know far too many people who did the smart thing and moved onto the next option available to them if they didn't like Atma progression.

Guess what? It's an MMORPG, not every aspect will be to your liking and you will end up hating a part of it for whatever reason, you can't expect everything to be perfect or "improved to your liking" or else developers would have done that since MMOs because a popular genre. This game has far bigger issues that need to improve, this is one of the smaller issues that isn't THAT big of a deal because ALL MMOS HAVE A GRIND. I think it's more that people were so used to stuff being handed to you lately this blind sided a lot of people.

Edited, Apr 30th 2014 9:12am by Theonehio

Edited, Apr 30th 2014 9:18am by Theonehio
#201 Apr 30 2014 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Anyways, like I said: the offer still stands. We could all queue into DF at the same time and hope to end up in the same group. Only thing that would be required is a voice chat to set up the initial matchmaking.

Might be fun to have a ZAM get together day for those of us on different servers.


Let's set it up!

Would you be willing to take lead on this? Let's make new thread setting date/time (Friday night? Late-ish? 9:00pm CNT?) and asking for people who are interested. Between you and I, we can find some voice chat server that everyone has access to. Skype probably the easiest for this. Still invite people without access to voice chat, although that will be more difficult to initially setup in DF.

Is Leviathan in DF? I don't think so yet. Maybe test this out on something simple like T1-T2 farming. The problem I've had trying to pull this off is that if one person goes to the wrong group in DF, they can't leave right away because of lock-out timer.

Even if this only partially works it would still be cool. What say you?
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