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Second Coil Turn 3 cheating - Players suspendedFollow

#1 Apr 03 2014 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
SE News Feed wrote:

2014/04/03 14:24 Regarding Illegitimate Practices in “The Second Coil of Bahamut” (Apr. 3)

Following the implementation of Patch 2.2, we have identified several parties that used illegitimate practices in “The Second Coil of Bahamut”. As this is a violation of the Terms of Service, 24 service accounts that used such illegitimate practices in “The Second Coil of Bahamut - Turn 3” have been suspended.

※As of April 1, 2014 at 1:00 a.m., only two parties have legitimately completed “The Second Coil of Bahamut - Turn 3”. Game data since then has been closely monitored.

Although we will continue to monitor game data to ensure that similar illegitimate practices are not being used, we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action.

Players who discover any confirmed cheats should, under no circumstances, exploit or disseminate such information. Instead, we ask that players file a report by using the in-game command [System Menu] -> [Support Desk] -> [Contact Us] -> [Report Cheating].


Hmmm. I wonder what they did?

Edit: Changed title to "suspended" not banned

Edited, Apr 3rd 2014 8:26pm by Catwho
#2 Apr 03 2014 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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It's between:

1. Monster Immobilization
2. Height Position hacking.

These are the two main cheats certain FCs have been using since T5 days. I won't name names, as much as I want to because I already know one of the clear groups is actually JP, so that should narrow it down, but there's really only 2 "cheats" in this game that would cause SE to actively go after it.

Some of it is exploiting AI weakness but the 2 I listed are the main ones people employ in Coil because I've seen it done and seen someone accidentally use it during Titan Extreme as their macro listed a Twintania phase lol.
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#3 Apr 03 2014 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Only TWO parties have done it right? That means the rest are banned, or just the ones who used third party tools?
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#4 Apr 03 2014 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Stilivan wrote:
Only TWO parties have done it right? That means the rest are banned, or just the ones who used third party tools?


The rest who claimed to have gotten through it when SE themselves only 2 have legitimately done it as of this morning.
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#5 Apr 03 2014 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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It's says they've been suspended. Is that different than banned? I'd assume that means they've gotten a vacation from the game and probation when they come back.
#6 Apr 03 2014 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
Stilivan wrote:
Only TWO parties have done it right? That means the rest are banned, or just the ones who used third party tools?


The rest who claimed to have gotten through it when SE themselves only 2 have legitimately done it as of this morning.


More precisely, in a period of 61 hours and 24 minutes, only 2 parties were observed worldwide who completed Turn 3 legitimately. There were cheaters in every single other group who went during that time.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2014 6:54pm by Xoie
#7 Apr 03 2014 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
The rest of us win when cheaters get banhammered.
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#8 Apr 03 2014 at 5:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Ah, suspended isn't the same as banned, true.

They use the term "suspended" when they plan to comb through the logs and see who used the third party hacks.
#9 Apr 03 2014 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, there was one FC on Midgard who tried this. They were keeping it quiet, though. You could view their achievements and see their gear. In fact, one guy had 3 pieces of high Allagan gear about 2 days ago and the achievement that said they had completed the 2nd coil 10 times already.

These are the two I remember but they belong to the same FC:

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2537938/#_ga=1.67401681.1950459891.1393335324

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2911744/#_ga=1.232725599.1950459891.1393335324
http://i.gyazo.com/6b6adebf67c6fa6180f7ac867a783290.png
#10 Apr 03 2014 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
The rest of us win when cheaters get banhammered.


The only way anyone wins is if the exploits are fixed. Ban is about the same as a suspension because it doesn't take very long to get back to where you were even if you had to start over from scratch Smiley: frown
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#11 Apr 03 2014 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Ban is about the same as a suspension because it doesn't take very long to get back to where you were even if you had to start over from scratch Smiley: frown


Kind of... I guess a super-determined hardcore player could get back to i90 in two or three weeks maybe, if he/she doesn't have any kind of classes or full-time jobs to attend to. But they can kiss their other jobs goodbye, as well as all the hours spent leveling/gearing them up.

It's still satisfying.
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#12 Apr 03 2014 at 9:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Ban is about the same as a suspension because it doesn't take very long to get back to where you were even if you had to start over from scratch Smiley: frown


Kind of... I guess a super-determined hardcore player could get back to i90 in two or three weeks maybe, if he/she doesn't have any kind of classes or full-time jobs to attend to. But they can kiss their other jobs goodbye, as well as all the hours spent leveling/gearing them up.

It's still satisfying.



^^
This.

And a lot of players might be tempted to just quit the game if they get banned for cheating.

And of them, I say thusly: Good Riddance, don't let the door hit your *** on the way out.



Edited, Apr 3rd 2014 11:38pm by Lyrailis
#13 Apr 03 2014 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Ban is about the same as a suspension because it doesn't take very long to get back to where you were even if you had to start over from scratch Smiley: frown


Kind of... I guess a super-determined hardcore player could get back to i90 in two or three weeks maybe, if he/she doesn't have any kind of classes or full-time jobs to attend to. But they can kiss their other jobs goodbye, as well as all the hours spent leveling/gearing them up.

It's still satisfying.


I guess my point was that it would be more satisfying if they actually did something to stop players from exploiting the game. Bans and suspensions just kick the can.

In XI you'd read the STF reports and see how many thousands of players were affected and how many billions of gil removed, yet you'd still see a healthy population of RMT monopolizing NMs, fish/craft/claim bots and the economy still suffered.

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#14 Apr 03 2014 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I guess my point was that it would be more satisfying if they actually did something to stop players from exploiting the game. Bans and suspensions just kick the can.


Well, surely they have programmers working to try and find a way to fix the exploits, maybe the ones they're using are difficult to patch?

Quote:
In XI you'd read the STF reports and see how many thousands of players were affected and how many billions of gil removed, yet you'd still see a healthy population of RMT monopolizing NMs, fish/craft/claim bots and the economy still suffered.


I dunno, when I saw the Scorpion Harnesses and Haubergeons going from 16,000,000 and 19,000,000 respectively go down to 50-100k each in the matter of a couple months, I'd have to say I was satisfied that they were fixing the economy.
#15 Apr 03 2014 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
I dunno, when I saw the Scorpion Harnesses and Haubergeons going from 16,000,000 and 19,000,000 respectively go down to 50-100k each in the matter of a couple months, I'd have to say I was satisfied that they were fixing the economy.

Seraph never fully recovered. NQ items went back closer to their baseline, but HQ items stayed high for quite a while. It wasn't until SE added new ways to obtain a lot of the valuable crafting materials that the prices started to stabilize, but it took a long time to repair the damage that was done.

I think we discussed this before, but the exploit you're referring to wasn't really an exploit. It was just an oversight on SE's part that players(myself included) took advantage of.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#16 Apr 04 2014 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Seraph never fully recovered. NQ items went back closer to their baseline, but HQ items stayed high for quite a while. It wasn't until SE added new ways to obtain a lot of the valuable crafting materials that the prices started to stabilize, but it took a long time to repair the damage that was done.

I think we discussed this before, but the exploit you're referring to wasn't really an exploit. It was just an oversight on SE's part that players(myself included) took advantage of.


Well, one server is hardly the baseline to compare all the other servers too, and since I've not heard anybody mention any server other than Seraph, it is my inclination to believe that more servers went the route of Fairy than the route Seraph did.

And yes, HQ items stayed expensive as hell. That's to be expected; for every 1 HQ there were how many NQs floating around, and non-hardcore players more than willing to use the NQs, again? HQs were more of a 'status symbol' than anything (well except for the staves, maybe) unless you were really into hardcore endgame.

It wasn't JUST the SH, Haubergeons, etc... but even the stuff average joes like myself farmed, the beehive chips, the honey, insect wings, crystals, etc. Those dropped sharply after the STF started draining gil out of the economy by the bucketload. Now, since I happened to be a very thrifty player, I held onto my money for the most part. The prices on everything dropped, but yet my millions stayed in my wallet. To this day I have 30,000,000gil and have no plans on dumping it on any big purchases.
#17 Apr 04 2014 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
I dropped under 10 million in XI. Haven't gotten it back because my big money maker fizzled out in the last few months. I only pop on to sing bard songs, anyway.
#18 Apr 04 2014 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
SE News Feed wrote:

2014/04/03 14:24 Regarding Illegitimate Practices in “The Second Coil of Bahamut” (Apr. 3)

Following the implementation of Patch 2.2, we have identified several parties that used illegitimate practices in “The Second Coil of Bahamut”. As this is a violation of the Terms of Service, 24 service accounts that used such illegitimate practices in “The Second Coil of Bahamut - Turn 3” have been suspended.

※As of April 1, 2014 at 1:00 a.m., only two parties have legitimately completed “The Second Coil of Bahamut - Turn 3”. Game data since then has been closely monitored.

Although we will continue to monitor game data to ensure that similar illegitimate practices are not being used, we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action.

Players who discover any confirmed cheats should, under no circumstances, exploit or disseminate such information. Instead, we ask that players file a report by using the in-game command [System Menu] -> [Support Desk] -> [Contact Us] -> [Report Cheating].


Hmmm. I wonder what they did?

Edit: Changed title to "suspended" not banned

Edited, Apr 3rd 2014 8:26pm by Catwho


Two Blugartr teams are the only ones to have legitimately beat turn 8 as of April 1. Three other parties from what is being described as "no name" FCs beat turn 7 and 8 on the same day and I believe on the same day as Blugartr. The groups were on Sargantenus (I probably butchered that) and it was shown that they used position hacking. They were permanently banned.
#19 Apr 04 2014 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Two Blugartr teams are the only ones to have legitimately beat turn 8 as of April 1. Three other parties from what is being described as "no name" FCs beat turn 7 and 8 on the same day and I believe on the same day as Blugartr. The groups were on Sargantenus (I probably butchered that) and it was shown that they used position hacking. They were permanently banned.


Never ceases to amaze me how these "no-name" FCs think they can beat the latest content on the first day the known pros do and it not look suspicious at all, and that they'd somehow do this and not get punished for it, despite SE's multiple warnings about cheating.

Apparently, some people just don't care if they get banned or something...
#20 Apr 04 2014 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
Two Blugartr teams are the only ones to have legitimately beat turn 8 as of April 1. Three other parties from what is being described as "no name" FCs beat turn 7 and 8 on the same day and I believe on the same day as Blugartr. The groups were on Sargantenus (I probably butchered that) and it was shown that they used position hacking. They were permanently banned.


Never ceases to amaze me how these "no-name" FCs think they can beat the latest content on the first day the known pros do and it not look suspicious at all, and that they'd somehow do this and not get punished for it, despite SE's multiple warnings about cheating.

Apparently, some people just don't care if they get banned or something...


The known "pros" dedicate 14 hour days to beating the content. Anyone who would spend that much time repeating new content would eventually win, unless you were absolutely horrible at this game. If you look at Bluegartr's applications, they require you to be free during content releases for 12-14 hours a day. Now, not saying they took that much time to beat the new turns, but Turn 5, they were at it for awhile. And no, I'm not mentioning this cause I'm jealous, cause if I was young again with no job and all the time in the world on my hands, I'd be doing the same thing!
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#21 Apr 04 2014 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

The known "pros" dedicate 14 hour days to beating the content. Anyone who would spend that much time repeating new content would eventually win, unless you were absolutely horrible at this game. If you look at Bluegartr's applications, they require you to be free during content releases for 12-14 hours a day. Now, not saying they took that much time to beat the new turns, but Turn 5, they were at it for awhile. And no, I'm not mentioning this cause I'm jealous, cause if I was young again with no job and all the time in the world on my hands, I'd be doing the same thing!


Never meant to dispute that whatsoever.

My point is, these no-name people obviously do not churn away at the game 12-14h at a time, and they have no history of ever doing so, which is why it is all the more suspicious when they waltz in, and then waltz out a few hours later with full clears.

That'd be like a rookie pitcher stepping up to the mound to throw a perfect shutout on his very first day pitching a major league game. It just doesn't happen unless something funny is going on.
#22 Apr 04 2014 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:

The known "pros" dedicate 14 hour days to beating the content. Anyone who would spend that much time repeating new content would eventually win, unless you were absolutely horrible at this game. If you look at Bluegartr's applications, they require you to be free during content releases for 12-14 hours a day. Now, not saying they took that much time to beat the new turns, but Turn 5, they were at it for awhile. And no, I'm not mentioning this cause I'm jealous, cause if I was young again with no job and all the time in the world on my hands, I'd be doing the same thing!


Never meant to dispute that whatsoever.

My point is, these no-name people obviously do not churn away at the game 12-14h at a time, and they have no history of ever doing so, which is why it is all the more suspicious when they waltz in, and then waltz out a few hours later with full clears.

That'd be like a rookie pitcher stepping up to the mound to throw a perfect shutout on his very first day pitching a major league game. It just doesn't happen unless something funny is going on.


Like Clay Buchholz and his spitballs.

Edited, Apr 4th 2014 11:37am by Valkayree
#23REDACTED, Posted: Apr 04 2014 at 10:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think SE understands the expectations of a P2P MMO on 2014...
#24 Apr 04 2014 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
This is not content intended for the mass of players, period. I'm so casual I haven't even tried Coil 1 yet.

I'm not blaming SE for this one. The fact that folks have already beaten it legitimately, even just two parties, shows it's a do-able fight and not another version of XI's Absolute Virtue.
#25 Apr 04 2014 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:
And yes, HQ items stayed expensive as hell. That's to be expected; for every 1 HQ there were how many NQs floating around, and non-hardcore players more than willing to use the NQs, again? HQs were more of a 'status symbol' than anything (well except for the staves, maybe) unless you were really into hardcore endgame.


They were expensive because they were rare, but they stayed expensive because the billions of gil stayed in the economy(Seraph's at least) for quite a while. Myself and many others like me all participated in the 'exploit' and nothing came of it because it wasn't an illegal activity.

SE adding small fees to chocobo rental and dropping more rare materials never really brought it back to where it was on Seraph, but id didn't really matter. SE almost completely reversed all the work the STF did when they added hakuryu and choco blinkers anyway Smiley: lol
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#26 Apr 04 2014 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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mess3 wrote:
I don't think SE understands the expectations of a P2P MMO on 2014...

If there is an issue, they need to fix it fast, and not BLAME the player base for their poor programming standards.

That's why they claim only 2 parties have completed T2 the way THEY want it done... At this rate, they'll start banning people because too much good gear randomly dropped on a run.


So basically it is OK to cheat if you don't agree with the rules, amirite?

"I don't like the rules, so it is the fault of the person who made the rules and I'm going to break them because I don't agree with them" is basically what you're saying there.

This isn't some odd/weird strategy nobody thought of, this is using clear exploits of the game mechanics such as pos hacking.

There's no question whether or not this is an exploit. It just is, end of story. And everybody who was doing it, knew it was an exploit. They knew they weren't supposed to be doing it. You don't "Accidentally" pos hack. You don't "accidentally" hover in mid-air for no apparent reason. And you sure as hell don't win multiple boss battles in which you cause the boss to not be able to attack you or what-not, and then decide to repeat it as many times as you can until you're banned.

Don't play the "OMG we didn't know that was an exploit!" card, because that excuse holds water about as well as a sieve does.
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