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#1 Mar 31 2014 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
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So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?
#2 Mar 31 2014 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?


I feel ya, I think that generation has long been gone or they've picked up the mentality of these generation of gamers where patience is not a virtue. :)
#3 Mar 31 2014 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?


In the couple cases like that I just /t'd the leader and said "look I've run this 100 times and been slaughtered by the same dipsh*ts as you. I haven't completed it for the same reason, so let's all be friends and get it in the bag." Cleared Garuda EX and Turn 4 for the first time in groups demanding clear experience.

Alternatively, you could just lie and laugh when you get the acheivement. :P

As for where all "THOSE" people are, they're around. I've seen 'learning' runs. Problem is, right now everyone is obsessed with the new stuff and learning runs aren't many to be had.

For some reason, my desire to clear turn 5, titan and ifrit have become near-obsessive too....i hate that BcoB 2nd coil is out there and I can't even get in it...

Of course, you can always "BE" that guy, and start a learning run I guess.....

Edited, Mar 31st 2014 2:31pm by LebargeX
#4 Mar 31 2014 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?


Helpful FFXI community? What? I think you're romanticizing FFXI quite a bit... honestly the community was one of the worst things about the game in my opinion.

Anyways... start your own party. Use the Party Finder. You can even put something in the comments welcoming others in the same ship that you're in. Be proactive.
#5 Mar 31 2014 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?


In the couple cases like that I just /t'd the leader and said "look I've run this 100 times and been slaughtered by the same dipsh*ts as you. I haven't completed it for the same reason, so let's all be friends and get it in the bag." Cleared Garuda EX and Turn 4 for the first time in groups demanding clear experience.

Alternatively, you could just lie and laugh when you get the acheivement. :P

As for where all "THOSE" people are, they're around. I've seen 'learning' runs. Problem is, right now everyone is obsessed with the new stuff and learning runs aren't many to be had.

For some reason, my desire to clear turn 5, titan and ifrit have become near-obsessive too....i hate that BcoB 2nd coil is out there and I can't even get in it...

Of course, you can always "BE" that guy, and start a learning run I guess.....

Edited, Mar 31st 2014 2:31pm by LebargeX



in order to start a learning run wouldnt you first hav eto know how to teach? lol

As for the groups aforementioned.. i could probably understand them wanting experience when it comes to healers or tanks as their jobs are important... even i get scared/uneasy about tanking/healing content for the first time... but DPS? only thing a dps need sto know is attack stuff and stay out of glowing orange circles/lines/boxes.... you get THAT kinda experience jst GETTING to 50
#6 Mar 31 2014 at 3:37 PM Rating: Default
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Raylo wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?


Helpful FFXI community? What? I think you're romanticizing FFXI quite a bit... honestly the community was one of the worst things about the game in my opinion.

Anyways... start your own party. Use the Party Finder. You can even put something in the comments welcoming others in the same ship that you're in. Be proactive.



yeah i had to shout for days t get AF done or sometimes go as far as paying ppl, same for CoP if you werent the right job or w/e... but as far as sky/dynamis/seea and other endgame activites there were no "experience/completed only" groups... only thing you needed to be to get in was whatever job and level they were shouting for... THATS what i mean
#7 Mar 31 2014 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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in order to start a learning run wouldnt you first hav eto know how to teach? lol


Once you get a full party, ask everyone to watch the same video on youtube before you start. You can even put that in your party notes on the party finder... that there will be a 15-minute study period before the battle begins. If people seriously need to learn the fights, then they should be willing to do that.

I'm kind of in the same boat though... I've taught myself Garuda EX just by plunging into the DF and going for it (after watching a couple videos on youtube first). Unfortunately, I still don't have a win, because most people don't actually attempt to educate themselves before going into fights like that.
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#8 Mar 31 2014 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
but as far as sky/dynamis/seea and other endgame activites there were no "experience/completed only" groups... only thing you needed to be to get in was whatever job and level they were shouting for...

Every time you talk about XI I feel like we were playing two completely different games.
#9 Mar 31 2014 at 3:55 PM Rating: Default
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DomfranciscoOfIfrit wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
but as far as sky/dynamis/seea and other endgame activites there were no "experience/completed only" groups... only thing you needed to be to get in was whatever job and level they were shouting for...

Every time you talk about XI I feel like we were playing two completely different games.




well feel free to explain how what you quoted is not true about ffxi
#10 Mar 31 2014 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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After I cleared turn 4, the group I was in had zero experience in turn 5. We grabbed an eighth from PF after one guy had to go and ran in there and face pulled twin for about 40 minutes while getting the absolute kraap kicked out of us. Learned an awful lot.

You can't expect to get too much more out of it at that time. It sounds from your following posts more like you're wanting an established group to "walk you through it". That shiz ain't gonna happen.

Here's what I think you should do:

"Looking for 7 other people to spend 30-45 minutes practicing falling down in turn 5. No experience necessary. Must have 1000g on hand for repairs :P"

I'd sign up for that. ;)
#11 Mar 31 2014 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
Most people aren't willing to teach, it requires a certain personality type. But what's to stop you from making a party? Learning party doesn't necessarily mean to automatically go in with weapons swinging and dying at 30 seconds.

Require that people joining use a VoIP, you'd be surprised how many flakes that filters out. There's good learning parties where you inch forward every time, keep track of who you meet, try to go with them over and over if they're good, if it ends up like what happened to some of my groups in the past, you can make a really solid static party out of it.
#12 Mar 31 2014 at 5:14 PM Rating: Default
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LebargeX wrote:
After I cleared turn 4, the group I was in had zero experience in turn 5. We grabbed an eighth from PF after one guy had to go and ran in there and face pulled twin for about 40 minutes while getting the absolute kraap kicked out of us. Learned an awful lot.

You can't expect to get too much more out of it at that time. It sounds from your following posts more like you're wanting an established group to "walk you through it". That shiz ain't gonna happen.

Here's what I think you should do:

"Looking for 7 other people to spend 30-45 minutes practicing falling down in turn 5. No experience necessary. Must have 1000g on hand for repairs :P"

I'd sign up for that. ;)



not entirely true if i actually SAW a progression group for t4 or 5 in PF that had more than one person for the last 30 mins and looked like it was actually filling i WOULD join that however all the t4 and 5 groups i DO see in PF require experience or completion, and I dont wanna start a group myself because imho Id look like a dumbass starting a group for something in which i dont even know what Im doing
#13 Mar 31 2014 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to have to side with Duo on this one, XI had a very tight and often helpful community. The reason was that you NEEDED people to get all but the most basic stuff accomplished so your reputation meant something and you didn't seek to self destroy said rep. Were there aholes? Yep. Were there hours of seeking that last person only for the group to dissolve? Yep. But when you actually got a party everyone did their best (usually) and it was usually a memorable experience.

In XIV you can get parties in well under and hour (usually), but more than half the time people suck at something and get called on stupidity instead of people coaching. I don't even mind a condensending teacher if the lesson is of value, but usually it's (sorry, but it is) Tank or Healer "OMFG U SUK!!!! BAI!!!" and they leave the group. No one learns anything and the party continues to fail miserably.

*EDIT* FWIW I haven't played XI since Sky and Dynamis were the IT thing and the cap had just increased from 75, I know the game and community have changed quite a bit since then.


Edited, Mar 31st 2014 11:18pm by Perrin
#14 Mar 31 2014 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?


Last time I checked this is FFXIV not FFXI so the communities are very different, stop trying to compare them. To get experience you need to setup your own parties and go from there, don't use the excuse I don't know what you're doing when setting up a learning party as that's what it is for learning the encounter (Stop being lazy). I've had to spam the **** out of Titan EX in DF just to get the mechanics down, and when I see group in the PF I would send the organizer a tell letting them know I have yet to complete the content and have gotten up to XXX stage comfortably in DF and is it ok that I join your group (I've had yet any group forming tell me no I couldn't join). For not clearing the content I do better than the ones who do during the run.
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#15 Mar 31 2014 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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Perrin wrote:

In XIV you can get parties in well under and hour (usually), but more than half the time people suck at something and get called on stupidity instead of people coaching. I don't even mind a condensending teacher if the lesson is of value, but usually it's (sorry, but it is) Tank or Healer "OMFG U SUK!!!! BAI!!!" and they leave the group. No one learns anything and the party continues to fail miserably.
Edited, Mar 31st 2014 11:18pm by Perrin


I know this is a little bit off topic but in my experience I've rarely ever seen it go this way. I play a tank primarily but I have leveled two DPS jobs to level 50 as well. I have never seen the DPS in a party get singled out and blamed for anything, while if the tank messes up they are almost always getting called out on it. Granted, that's just been my experience but people seem to want to paint tanks as healers as elitists who leave at the drop of a hat and I've never seen it.

Back on topic... start your own party. It seems silly to me that you get frustrated at players for not wanting to put the time and work into teaching you the fight when you don't want to put the time and work into learning it yourself.
#16 Mar 31 2014 at 6:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Most of the helpful people I've partied with in XIV have been either the Tank or Healer, they're just also the jobs that have been most likely to bail at the first sign of possible failure in my experience. Actually, just yesterday an (I'm assuming) veteran tank playing as a DRG very politely offered pointers to our poorly failing PLD (flash flash flash flash, pre agro >.<) and then the PLD said pretty much "F you, enjoy your 2 hour wait" and left. Poor guy, we got a replacement tank in about 3 minutes and I got into a subsequent DR likely before he even could queue again.

As to the topic, yes... the answer is almost always make your own party. PF is an amazing tool that wasn't seeing much use honestly until this Atma FATE business. The other option is to play with a large group of people who share your play style. We have quite a few power players in my FC, and while they're always willing to help, they're also usually busy. Thus, I have LS's full of players of certain mindsets. I have one for the "epic" FATEs such as Odin, I have one for Primals, etc... Generally there's enough people on to form the majority of a party and let DR do the rest. It's fairly efficient.

#17 Mar 31 2014 at 7:41 PM Rating: Default
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SillyHawk wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So you get a job to il90 but cant do certain endgame content because "experienced only" or "must have completed before"? how do you get experience or complete said content if 99% of groups wont take ppl without experience or completion? What happened to the helpful community days of FFXI where just having the right level or gear was enough to do the content and experience would be gained by doing it... i.e doing Dynamis for the first time? No he puller/leader just walks the newbies through what to do/not do as you went and everyone still wins and has no problems. Where did all THOSE kinda people go?


Last time I checked this is FFXIV not FFXI so the communities are very different, stop trying to compare them. To get experience you need to setup your own parties and go from there, don't use the excuse I don't know what you're doing when setting up a learning party as that's what it is for learning the encounter (Stop being lazy). I've had to spam the sh*t out of Titan EX in DF just to get the mechanics down, and when I see group in the PF I would send the organizer a tell letting them know I have yet to complete the content and have gotten up to XXX stage comfortably in DF and is it ok that I join your group (I've had yet any group forming tell me no I couldn't join). For not clearing the content I do better than the ones who do during the run.




Youre right there are different communities, one is good and one is horrible, thats the difference between a hardcore mmo that requires grouping for everything and casual one that will throw you in with randoms. In the hardcore one you NEED friends to accomplish stuff soo you cant afford to be a **** since those ppl you dont wanna do said content with may be the only way you WILL get it done.

As for using "not knowing what im doing as an excuse for not setting up learning parties" Well when I did CoP in FFXI my group was doing them the day the launches, so we had no guides or preset strat to follow we HAD (keyword there is HAD ) to learn and make our own.... coil is 8 month old content now, I shouldnt have to put myself through that with content thats old enough that 90 of the player base should know how to do it and 1-2 ppl on the team who dont wouldnt make an impact on winning or losing. Also when I played FFXI I was not in school (graduated) and didnt work so I played 12 hours a day everyday I had the luxury and free time to learn/wipe on a fight 50 time sin one day before we finally learned to beat it. I work 40 hours a week now.. I no longer have that kinda time. and my hours (2pm-11pm with never having a weekend off) makes committing to a FC or static impossible since as Im sure you all know, what the average time/hours those things are scheduled for. Otherwise Id just do THAT instead (id rather learn with a static group of regualrs who know eachothers strengths/weaknesses and know how to play with eachother than deal with complete randoms daily)

Also since said content is as I said 8 months old theres a million guides on the internet for them. Turn 4 for example Ive never done it once but as a brd I know Phase 1 is just aoeing spiders to death, phase 2 fight knights because they reflect magic, start with the knight on the NW spawn, phase 3 take out the dreadnaught, phase 4 kills the rooks then AOE the spiders, phase 5 kills dreadnaught then finally phase 6 take out the rooks, then the knights (then soldiers if any left). aoe spders to death the finally take out the dreadnaught.

So see I know WHAT to do I just havent physically went in and did it, so how can I claim to be experienced without first doing so, and well how will I do so when every group wants experienced?
#18 Mar 31 2014 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
I dont wanna start a group myself because imho Id look like a dumbass starting a group for something in which i dont even know what Im doing
This is just an excuse, starting something you don't know what you are doing is what LEARNING is all about, and you should not feel shame or embarrassment because of it. Just watch a couple of videos, read the fight description/strategy (google is your friend) and you are good to go.

In fact I'm sure you will be surprised of how friendly and cooperative is people when they join to a practice run.
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#19 Mar 31 2014 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
[quote=SillyHawk][quote=DuoMaxwellxx]

So see I know WHAT to do I just havent physically went in and did it, so how can I claim to be experienced without first doing so, and well how will I do so when every group wants experienced?


Just don't. Start a party, and in the comments put "I know what to do and can explain the fight, but I've never done it myself. Let's go give it a shot." Chances are you will have people sign up and then you're good to go. There are plenty of other players in the exact same boat as you.
#20 Mar 31 2014 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
I also will watch a video or read a walk through ahead of time, and tell the party leader that. "I need this clear but I watched the video and read all the moves, so even though I haven't run it before, I know what's going on." Got my Ultima HM clear that way.
#21 Mar 31 2014 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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12 hours into 2.2 was already seeing 'exp only' party finders for the new stuff.
#22 Mar 31 2014 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
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squiress wrote:
12 hours into 2.2 was already seeing 'exp only' party finders for the new stuff.


Yeah. Can't underestimate the power of dumb either. Lol
#23 Apr 01 2014 at 1:50 AM Rating: Default
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ok someone answer this question for me... Ive done Turn 1 (and completed it) a million times as a brd and healer, so i know what to do/not to do know the fights etc etc. Now I wanna go as tank... since it would be my first time going as a tank )even though ive done the run enough to have sen what tanks do) would i join an experiences run or would i have to go with progression?
#24 Apr 01 2014 at 2:42 AM Rating: Good
If you're confident in your tanking, go for it. We can't answer that question for you.
#25 Apr 01 2014 at 2:52 AM Rating: Good
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You have to take the plunge and setup a learning run yourself. It can be nervewracking but you'd be surprised how many people will join. Right now a lot of people are Atma farming so it may take a bit longer. I need to spam DF to get better at Titan Ex but after my experiences with the super lag going on right now I'm waiting a few days.

In terms of being a healer or a tank, it's tough and people turn on you at the drop of a hat. If people are dying, sure it can be that the healer isn't keeping up or it can be that the DPS/Tank are absolutely unable to stay out of any AoE. I usually do pretty well but the second anything goes wrong, people turn on the healers and tanks. DPS can usually hide behind each other (unless it's very obvious). I don't tend to bail but I understand why people do. Just remember that more than one thing can go wrong and focus on making your contribution the best you can, rather than worrying about what everyone else is doing.
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#26 Apr 01 2014 at 3:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Raylo wrote:
I think you're romanticizing FFXI quite a bit... honestly the community was one of the worst things about the game in my opinion.

The attitude the OP is talking about has been around since even before FFXI. In XI you had players who would only camp a specific area, players who refused to group unless you had [insert job here] and people who wouldn't even let you near endgame LS unless you already had near flawless gear and several useful jobs.

If your exp groups couldn't maintain chains then you'd probably disband with up to a few hours wasted. If you wiped to HNM it meant you probably lost claim and could wait weeks or even months before you tagged another one. It was a necessary evil.
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