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#1 Mar 25 2014 at 11:35 AM Rating: Default
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Also has the new ffxiv roadmap been put out yet?
#2 Mar 25 2014 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/116647-BG-Linkshell-for-Final-Fantasy-XIV-A-Realm-Reborn-%28Gilgamesh%29
#3 Mar 25 2014 at 11:50 AM Rating: Default
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and is this the same well know Blue Gartr that has world firsts in a multitude of other MMOs or just some FC using their name?

Also is here a site that shows all the current il90 BiS for all jobs? Lastly speaking of which since there are different armor sets that are the same il (alagan and relic armor for example), do both those armor sets have the same base stats (ie same str if youre important dmg stats is str like mnk for example) with just different secondary stats? like crit hit rates and or acc?

in otherwords mixing and matching the two armors to get the "best" accuracy or crit hit rate balance for il90 wont compromise me getting the highest str possible (at il90) for my str based class?

Edited, Mar 25th 2014 1:26pm by DuoMaxwellxx
#4 Mar 25 2014 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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BG became popular in FFXI. They may have existed before then, but I am not sure what they dabbled in.

That link I gave you links directly to their forums. It is their official forums and was used as a way to communicate between players who sought out a serious environment to discuss complex issues within 11. The same holds true for 14.

You need to be careful with the term BiS. I will give you an example:

There are two types of builds for BLM: spell speed and crit. In fact, there are three sets: spell speed, crit, and determination. Depending on which stat you wish to gear towards, your gear setup will change as a result.

However,due to the randomness of coil, I have always recommended players gear up based on what drops for them. I personally think a balanced approach is the key to victory and that is how I play my BLM: equal amount of spell speed and critical hit.

For WHM, there are two schools of thought: spell speed or determination. Depending on which stat you choose, you will have different gear as a result.

For SCH, there are sort of two schools of thought: spell speed and crit.

For DRG, you'll have to ask a resident DRG. I believe it is skill speed vs crit.

For MNK, you always want to gear for determination since it is a very heavily weighted stat in our overall damage. After that, crit is usually the optimum choice as skill speed seems a bit lack luster.

For PLD, you will want to maximize parry while staying above ACC cap. This makes PLD have only one real BiS set of gear in 2.1: mythology on the left hand side and Allagan accessories on the right.

I don't know anything about WAR.

BRD seems to favor mythology gear on the left hand side (and even some on the right). BRD is a weird job because you need quite a bit of accuracy to be able to use the Elfin bow in coil instead of the relic bow until you obtain your Allagan bow. The Allagan bow and Relic bow have accuracy while the Elfin bow is pure DPS. Usually BRDs depend upon the Allagan Trousers of Aiming to compensate accuracy. This allows them to change around their gear setup quite a bit.

The same is true for BLM: the scepter and shield offer tremendous accuracy which allows the BLM to get rid of accuracy gear (mainly the AF2 coat) in favor of pure DPS gear.

There is a debate in the SMN world between DET and CRIT weighting so you will have to choose which you prefer more: constant increased damage to your DoTs or fester crits and DoT crits more frequently.


All i90 gear will have equivalent base stats. The same with i80.
#5 Mar 25 2014 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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In 2 days the BiS gear is going to change with the release of 2.2 so anything you look at now will be irrelevant.
#6DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Mar 25 2014 at 1:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) if theres different BiS builds for the same job doesnt that kinda contradict the term BEST in slot?
#7 Mar 25 2014 at 1:06 PM Rating: Default
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Shiener wrote:
In 2 days the BiS gear is going to change with the release of 2.2 so anything you look at now will be irrelevant.



it wont be irrelevent for those of us who wanna get the current BiS gear all in one day (exaggeration) without having to deal with 1 week lockout and max tomes per week. that way we can gear up all our jobs to the point were we only have to worry about playing once a week (due to certain restrictions which imo is unbecoming of a monthly subscription mmo) tHEN worry about the 2.2 "relevant" gearing
#8 Mar 25 2014 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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This is a hell of a website that should answer all of your gear comparison questions. You can even click on the chosen weapon / armor / food and it will calculate your stats.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/

Edited, Mar 25th 2014 2:16pm by Valkayree
#9 Mar 25 2014 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
if theres different BiS builds for the same job doesnt that kinda contradict the term BEST in slot?


Do you have definitive proof or can you find anyone with definitive proof that x build is better than y build? No.

Which is why I told you to be careful with the term BiS.
#10 Mar 25 2014 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
if theres different BiS builds for the same job doesnt that kinda contradict the term BEST in slot?

Yeah, BIS might be a misnomer. Or, you could interpret it as best in slot for a particular goal. Thus, you have one piece of gear that is BIS if you're building for just enough accuracy plus crit hit, but have a totally different piece of gear that is BIS if you're building for accuracy and determination, etc.
#11 Mar 25 2014 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Valkayree wrote:
This is a hell of a website that should answer all of your gear comparison questions. You can even click on the chosen weapon / armor / food and it will calculate your stats.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/

Edited, Mar 25th 2014 2:16pm by Valkayree


Wow thats nice.. Bookmarked
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#12 Mar 25 2014 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
if theres different BiS builds for the same job doesnt that kinda contradict the term BEST in slot?


That's..... kinda.....the whole point Hitome was trying to make.

"Be careful with the term BiS"

Meaning "There is no real BiS in the way you're thinking".

FFXIV is not WoW. It might have a similar UI, but the two games are very different, and you can't just slap a "BiS" label on each piece of gear and call it a day like you could over there in most situations.

Instead of BiS, you should be learning what stats you want, and then seek the gear that has those stats, IE, learning how to gear your character properly. Trying to find a "BiS List" is more like asking someone else to do this for you, and that sounds a lot like laziness.

Please don't be lazy. Do your own research, use the calculators yourself, and wear the best gear you have on hand for whatever task you're trying to do.
#14 Mar 25 2014 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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Clemente wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
FFXIV is not WoW. It might have a similar UI, but the two games are very different, and you can't just slap a "BiS" label on each piece of gear and call it a day like you could over there in most situations.


Can you expand on your point here? I'm not seeing why there wouldn't be BiS in XIV but there would be in WoW. They seem to be about equally linear in their gear progression.


As mentioned above, there's gear sets for Crit, Speed, etc.

In WoW, there's... generally 1 and only 1 way to get maximum DPS for your chosen class/spec. For example, Ret Paladins in WoW, according to AskMr.Robot is:

Hit > Exp > Str > Haste > Mastery > Crit

This means, "Get Hit to Cap, get Expertise to Cap, and then pick your stats in the order of Strength, Haste, Mastery, Crit".

So basically the Best-in-Slot gear will be the gear that has Haste or Mastery on it with whatever Crit you happen to find.

Clicking the "Best in Slot" button tells me exactly what is THE best in slot and it lists items by best in slot.

There is no "Haste Build", "Mastery Build", or "Crit Build" in WoW for Ret Paladins. There is ONE "Optimal" build that will hands-down, give you the MOST DPS, no matter what.

In FFXIV, however, you have different builds that are viable and therefore, no "Hands-down Best in Slot" gear for any given slot.

And it is interesting to note, AMR claims that my guesses are 98% optimal because I did all of my gemming and reforging without calculators. Huh, interesting...
#15FilthMcNasty, Posted: Mar 25 2014 at 5:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Rotations, gear and talent spec are all different in WoW depending on the encounter and sometimes depending on the phase of the encounter. There is no one BiS or best rotation in WoW either. You should know better.
#16 Mar 25 2014 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Rotations, gear and talent spec are all different in WoW depending on the encounter and sometimes depending on the phase of the encounter. There is no one BiS or best rotation in WoW either. You should know better.


Tell that to Icy-Veins, Ask Mr. Robot, etc that shows you all of these Gem/Reforge/BiS Calculators. All of them will tell you the same thing, for example, Ret is always Str>Haste>Mastery>Crit. Doesn't matter who you ask, they all say the same thing. They don't say "For Boss A, go Str>Haste>Mastery>Crit and for Boss B go Str>Mastery>Haste>Crit".

If the stat choices are always the same, then the BiS gear will similarly be always the same.

Yes, different bosses have moving phases, etc, but that still doesn't change your gearing options. You're still doing Str>Haste>Mastery>Crit no matter what you fight.
#17 Mar 25 2014 at 7:38 PM Rating: Default
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Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
Rotations, gear and talent spec are all different in WoW depending on the encounter and sometimes depending on the phase of the encounter. There is no one BiS or best rotation in WoW either. You should know better.


Tell that to Icy-Veins, Ask Mr. Robot, etc that shows you all of these Gem/Reforge/BiS Calculators.


They don't need to be told because it's theoretical DPS. It's pretty common knowledge that the numbers are based on 'patchwerk style' encounters where you're not required to move at all. People also know that the gearsets are based on the same tank-n-spank rotation. It's just a baseline for how high you can get if your gear is optimized to a stationary rotation with 100% uptime on key buffs and cooldowns and a specific set of talents, glyphs, gems, reforge and gear.

Lyrailis wrote:
Yes, different bosses have moving phases, etc, but that still doesn't change your gearing options. You're still doing Str>Haste>Mastery>Crit no matter what you fight.

Absolutely not true. In the past I have had to return to town to respec my talents despite having dual talents available. Basically, I had 3 different specs that I would use over the course of a single raid to maximize my damage.

The primary stats will always be priority, but secondary stats do fluctuate quite a bit. Even adjustments as small as +- 20 might skew your optimal build from haste>mastery>crit to mastery>haste>crit. The values are only static in the vacuum that is the patchwerk simulator.

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#18 Mar 25 2014 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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Do you honestly not realize how much AMR and Icy are used in theorycraft for WoW regardless if it is built on Patch-style fight or not, Filth?

I am shocked.

Go make a post on the mage forums and tell them they don't have a set rotation. I'll get the popcorn.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The primary stats will always be priority, but secondary stats do fluctuate quite a bit. Even adjustments as small as +- 20 might skew your optimal build from haste>mastery>crit to mastery>haste>crit. The values are only static in the vacuum that is the patchwerk simulator.


Not once was this ever a problem in Pandaria for me. Maybe it was different for other classes (probably not)...but mages are pretty straight forward.

Edited, Mar 25th 2014 11:47pm by HitomeOfBismarck
#19 Mar 26 2014 at 2:13 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Go make a post on the mage forums and tell them they don't have a set rotation. I'll get the popcorn.

Rotations are just priority lists. Something to do in between keeping yourself alive and not dying. There is no set rotation. I'll get the peanut butter.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Not once was this ever a problem in Pandaria for me. Maybe it was different for other classes (probably not)...but mages are pretty straight forward.

I'm guessing you were arcane? Smiley: glare



Edited, Mar 26th 2014 4:13am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#20 Mar 26 2014 at 6:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rotations are just priority lists. Something to do in between keeping yourself alive and not dying. There is no set rotation. I'll get the peanut butter.


Peanut butter and popcorn? Actually, never tried it. Sounds tasty.

I think you misunderstand the use of the word so allow me to redefine it: preset rotations.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm guessing you were arcane? Smiley: glare


I thought that was a given!

Till they nerfed it and made everyone go frost. But even frost had a very specific preset rotation. :\ Basically, wait for your CDs to come up. Use frozen orb and spam cheese lance until you bore yourself (or the mob) to death.

Go ahead and list a class for that didn't have a preset rotation, though. I'm curious now. I actually raided as a tanky death knight and arcane/frost mage when I went back briefly.

I'll help you out:

http://www.icy-veins.com

Let's do arcane first (since no one plays it anymore):

http://www.icy-veins.com/arcane-mage-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

Let's do frost mage next:

http://www.icy-veins.com/frost-mage-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

How about some BM hunter?

http://www.icy-veins.com/beast-mastery-hunter-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

And maybe some balance durid:

http://www.icy-veins.com/balance-druid-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

How about some feral durid:

http://www.icy-veins.com/feral-druid-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

And ele shaman for giggles:

http://www.icy-veins.com/elemental-shaman-wow-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities


No set rotation you say. Smiley: dubious Look at those lists and go ahead and tell me they don't abide by rotations in WoW. Is this happening? Do this. Has this happened? Do this. Has this procced? Do this. Do you need to move? AoE? Do this and this.

I think I just linked you to 6. Please don't try that stuff here Mr.Filth! Rotations are mandatory in WoW and you know why. But for those listening in at home: it's possible only because it took years to develop tools to get websites like AMR to work and organization with extensive testing to get community projects like Icy to work.

Remember: we don't have world of logs to draw data from and make conclusions.

We have no such tools in 14. There is no BiS in many cases because it is so hard to get a good sample size.



Are you going to tell me there isn't a preset rotation in 14 as well? :P I can tell you that my dragon kick is going to be followed up by my twin snakes and snap almost 100% of the time unless X occurs and then I switch to another preset rotation.to take care of the other situations such as the tank during or the mob turning around to use an attack on someone behind it.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rotations, gear and talent spec are all different in WoW depending on the encounter and sometimes depending on the phase of the encounter. There is no one BiS or best rotation in WoW either. You should know better.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
They don't need to be told because it's theoretical DPS. It's pretty common knowledge that the numbers are based on 'patchwerk style' encounters where you're not required to move at all. People also know that the gearsets are based on the same tank-n-spank rotation. It's just a baseline for how high you can get if your gear is optimized to a stationary rotation with 100% uptime on key buffs and cooldowns and a specific set of talents, glyphs, gems, reforge and gear.


Fact: each spec has BiS equipment, each spec has a specific stat they gear for which depends on simulation and weighting as a result, and each spec has a preset rotation.

It's also common knowledge that these 'theoretical figures' are followed religiously. And for a good reason: there isn't much you can do to customize yourself now days in WoW. Reforging has its limits and usually ends up having you regem because you moved accuracy around in favor of another stat.

Once you obtain certain gear levels, then weighting changes are taken into effect (see: fire mage). Notice the keyword? Once you obtain certain gear. This implies that certain gear is better than other pieces in the same slot. In fact, if you go to AMR and click one of your equipment tabs, you will see the top rated BiS items at the very top.

Not starting off automatically with BiS gear and having to change your gems and reforges around as a result of obtaining new gear does not imply that there is not a set of BiS gear.

Edit: Curse you, Filth. I have a test in 6 hours and am supposed to be sleeping/studying! Stop distracting me. T_T

Edited, Mar 26th 2014 8:48am by HitomeOfBismarck
#21 Mar 26 2014 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Back to the original question, there are actually 2 Order of the Blue Gartr FCs in XIV. The one with the www.bluegartr.com site is in Gilgamesh "new players only server" but they are not the elitist world first Blue Gartr group that people usually refer. Then there is Order of the Blue Gartr in Excalibur with the site bluegarter.guildwork.com which are the ones from 1.0 with the world first history which demand the best of the best on their group. Both groups have original members from the XI Order of the Blue Gartr.



Edited, Mar 26th 2014 11:34am by FedeMax
#22 Mar 26 2014 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Rotations are just priority lists. Something to do in between keeping yourself alive and not dying. There is no set rotation. I'll get the peanut butter.


Peanut butter and popcorn? Actually, never tried it. Sounds tasty.

I think you misunderstand the use of the word so allow me to redefine it: preset rotations.


Again, people don't have rotations they use a priority list to make sure they're using the most beneficial spell at the time and depending on the situation. If you actually look at these rotations it's easy to see that they're not rotations at all. Periods of movement, switching targets, trinket procs... there are a ton of situations where you would have to deviate from a rotation and enough of them that you'd hardly ever get through one complete cycle before having to change your priority. Rotations are recurring. You start at the first step and go straight through to the last before repeating.

HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Fact: each spec has BiS equipment, each spec has a specific stat they gear for which depends on simulation and weighting as a result, and each spec has a preset rotation.

The problem is that these stat weights are already based on BiS gear. Someone who just graduated from running heroic dungeons to raiding might find that their stat weights are completely different or even that it would be better for them to run a different spec until they are able to achieve certain stat breakpoints.

INT > Haste > Mastery >= Crit

This might be true for people in BiS gear, but for anyone progressing(read: people who are probably reading the guides in the first place) it's not that simple. The only correct answer in a "what stats do I stack" thread is the one that suggests to the player that they run a simulation on their character in their current gear. Haste might outweigh mastery, but most of the time this assumes you have a certain amount of INT or that you're capable of reaching an important haste breakpoint.

Good luck with your exam Smiley: tongue
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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