Is this game still completely P2P?Follow

It's not really the $15 to $19 difference. It's the idea that Yoshi told us he wouldn't be selling us "cheap trinkets" like the F2P games have to. We could pay and get content in return reliably and we wouldn't have to worry about all this stuff.

I guess I just feel like if I give in with the $19 it really will become more and even if I draw the line at $19, I will still be supporting the "pay more to do better" aspect, which I think is just unfair to everyone. Nobody asked for this.

People keep "forgetting" that, months ago, Yoshi-P indicated that he wasn't against F2P elements in ARR's future.

I certainly hope the game stays P2P, but anyone who thinks he's breaking promises clearly wasn't paying attention last year.

This ain't new, baby.

I know!

That said, after seeing the slides posted above, it's very obvious that developers are planning actual NEW elements of RMT in the game, but certain people right now are losing their minds (either for real or pretend, take your pick) over stuff that isn't true.

You know, Lucas... you might be right... just to be safe, you'd better jump off the train while there's still time!

Leave me behind! Save yourself!!!

Dont forget about the armory chest storage space as well. Thats 25 slots PER EQUIPMENT SLOT. Thats more than enough space to have all your jobs, gathering and crafting classes fully geared. Thats 300 slots rigt there. Then the 350 (400?) slots from retainers and the 100 personal inventory slots. No one should be full on space. If anyone is maxed out thats their own problem. Learn to manage your space better because that is A LOT of space.

As for the retainer ventures...the economy is already tanked. Having more ways to obtain already readily available materials is just going to drop prices further. So as for the point made that you "need" to buy those retainers to keep up with others...i would bet my life on absolutley not.

You're right, I don't like microtransactions, and I'd prefer that retainers didn't cost extra.

That said, I don't see charging for a third retainer as a big deal. This is far, far, far from being a game dominated by micro transactions. Plus, having a third retainer won't give anyone meaningful advantages over people who only have two (I only have one, didn't even realize I could get a second one until today).

Catwho's proposed model of paying for incremental time has nothing to do with microtransactions... that's why I like it! A lot of people complain on the official forums about how they only play a few days per week, and they wish they only had to pay for that much time. With that in mind, incremental pay sounds like a fantastic idea.

So, as you can see, my position hasn't changed.

Also, by 'sounds cool,' are you referring to my mentioning of those slides? If so, you should check them out... there's a ton of interesting stuff in those slides, and most of it has nothing to do with P2P or F2P. I'm pretty sure that was just one slide. One of the slides even talked about how SE's immersion in FFXI for so long caused the company to lose touch with the modern-day MMO industry.

As I said, there's a lot of cool stuff in those slides!

Edited, Mar 21st 2014 8:20pm by Thayos

It just seems strange to me that there would be a cost on top of your subscription. In almost any F2P/P2P hybrid, this would be something that non-sub players would have to pay for and subscribers would have access to. Seems like double ding to me, but if you guys are happy with it... carry on

Edited, Mar 22nd 2014 12:28am by FilthMcNasty

Please do understand that this is an expectation you have created out of thin air, which may not be realistic in the least.

Of course you're entitled to this expectation but it will simply leave to you being disappointed in the long run.

Subscription gives us a lot of value in the form of content patches that no other MMO can pump out in this day and age. That's what a subscription should give us too. If it didn't this game would not be a P2P game. The customers would agree on this, and SE knows this.

Subscription does NOT grant us access to the "full game". It is the catalyst to keep SE pumping out large volumes of content. This was apparent the moment SE announced CE bonus items (or when they made us pay extra for retainers back in 1.0......). Subscription is not a "replacement" to micro-transactions. Subscription gives us more than micro-transactions could ever hope to.



Edited, Mar 22nd 2014 6:38am by Hyanmen

If you think that is cool, I guess it is cool for you. I, for y part, keep wondering why there has to be two different payment systems for one game. Feels like being tricked. Like, hey, pay us monthly for this awesome game. And suddenly its pay us monthly, then pay us even more for a ba boost in EXP, drops, or retainer slots. I thought my subscription should cover that.

To be quite honest with you there are no two different payment systems for this game. There is only P2P with various monthly payment options. Starter/standard options and now an extra retainer option. Your expectation was unrealistic from the very beginning, unfortunately.

I don't see how you would feel tricked by this though. Your subscription gets you exactly the same features and content that it did from the very beginning. What comes on top of that is where you will pay the extra. The subscription fee has given us great value and will continue to do so.

Yeah, they've been doing that ever since they separated the character slots into starter/standard options (if we're talking about ARR specifically).This is pretty much exactly what XI has done since 2002 too: P2P with various monthly payment options.

I don't know if we can claim that after 12 years XI suddenly has not been a P2P game all along. Paying a larger sub fee for additional features does not turn a P2P game into a hybrid one.

Perhaps I'm looking at this a little differently, or it's the beer. Either way I thought I'd post this for the benefit of anyone interested:

I see Nox's arguments and he's truly and honestly against paying a subscription fee. Without saying it, it's obvious in the majority of his posts that he is against having to pay for a game he feels is inferior and sub-par from a sub-par development team (quite the freaking narcissist).

I see the argument Thayos is putting up and the support with Catwho's subscription plan, and the overall temperature of the community water is that the $2 isn't terrible, but where it's leading isn't ideal.

My next statement isn't a knock on kids playing the game -- I absolutely love seeing youth playing XIV, they can be quite fun and knowledgable and damn well better skilled and patient than I am when I'm playing. I'm a working adult. I work a decent job and I live in a decently sized bachelor pad (1800 sq ft, middle of the desert where power and water is a premium). You can size up my expenses as ~$4k in, ~$2.5k out for bills, $500/m in other necessities. I'm posting that to provide some comparative reference for anyone interested in playing 'mine is bigger than yours'.

I started playing XIV during Beta 3. I was a 1.0 player and back then I didn't feel that the game had as much 'oomph' as it needed, much like many other players felt. I also wasn't as economically stable as I am now. Coming into 2.0, though, I was very confident. After Beta 3 my confidence was solidified. Like any other rational human being I accepted a few global truths:

1) Out of the game, something will be broken.
2) It's going to take a little bit for the game to really plant it's feet and have a solid philosophical foundation.
3) There will be a crowd of people who hate it just as much as those who will like it.
4) At the end of the day, everyone's opinion is worth about the same as anyone else's. Don't be told otherwise.

I can't remember if it was around Beta 4 that they announced the 'official' subscription table, but whenever they did, I knew around that time that, like XI, I'd be playing for many many years. I estimated that I'd be getting at least 6 years of life out of the game and, if not, I'd at least enjoy the game for it's worth. Calculating my legacy subscription fee at $10/m, for 6 years I'd be paying $720.

Bought me an AMEX Bluebird card, loaded it up with $720 cash, and set a reminder to renew the card before any funds expired. Bam. True set and forget. I've done the same thing with EVE Online which is running towards the end of the time I've allotted for it. Note to self.

With an extra $4/m, we're talking about $288 I'd need to add to the Bluebird card.

$288.

If a one-time cost of $288 breaks me... I have more important life-changing things to be doing than playing an MMO.

So to follow through with your next argument, Nox, what about the next time they add something? If I really want it, I'll tally it up for the remainder of the life I'm giving this MMO and add it on. And I'll keep doing it. And if I just don't like the feature, I won't set aside more cash for it. I'm not a narcissist -- I enjoy the game, and the super tiny little fee it costs me is piddly **** in the vast scheme of life.

My point is, why are we squabbling over $4/m rather than squabbling over our quality of life? Is our happiness that fragile that $4/m sets us over the edge? If so... are we really doing what we need to do to be happy in our lives in the first place?

Couldn't have said it better myself.