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#102REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 3:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Many have said the same, few follow through. Thayos said similar things, he won't leave either.
#103 Mar 19 2014 at 3:59 PM Rating: Default
preludes, I'm not really understanding that Cloud haircut jab. You act like half the female characters aren't already unfortunately using a Lightning Final Fantasy XIII wig and we use Cloud's Buster Sword in our Limit Break animation. It's not going to get any more obnoxious than it already is.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 6:00pm by LucasNox
#104 Mar 19 2014 at 4:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll actually play this half assed game when it goes f2p, I'll see you online still playing too when it does. In your cash shop bought cloud haircut and outfit.


Can't say for certain whether I'd quit... depends entirely how it's implemented.

I'd love to keep playing, given that I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan. However, I couldn't get into a game where I'd have to pay for meaningful content that I couldn't get in the game with a reasonable effort (by that, I mean I'm not cool with "farm 5,000 of these or pay $5 at the cash shop!" which is clearly angled to funnel people toward the cash shop).

If the game ever did go F2P, something that would help would be the creation of separate F2P servers and P2P servers. Although, the content updates on the P2P servers would probably be weighed down somewhat by the F2P services, as Yoshi describes in this interview.

Long story short, I'd give it a shot, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

At this point though, there's no need to even worry about this, because Yoshi-P is still very in favor of P2P.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 3:04pm by Thayos
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#105REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's much better than "pay $5 at the Cash Shop!" with no option to even farm 5,000 of anything, a.k.a. the new Cash Shop retainers.
#106REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) From someone that has played a few p2p titles that went f2p and thought like you.
#107REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Me? I welcome our Brazilian F2P Duty Finder parties.
#108 Mar 19 2014 at 4:07 PM Rating: Excellent
Only the new "cash shop retainers" are a total luxury, and we have yet to see if they'll actually cost $1 or $5.

Quote:
It could be a positive change for a game to move from subscription based to F2P as long as the change is based on the users' needs rather than trying to turn an unprofitable game around.


This, to me, is the summary of Yoshi's feelings on ARR ever going F2P. If there's a good reason to do it, he'll do it.

Quote:
There's no reason for Naoki Yoshida to make such lengthy statements reversing his statements about F2P and giving examples of F2P done right unless he was preparing us for a change.


He was answering questions in an interview, and he's always been a very talkative guy.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 3:08pm by Thayos
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#109 Mar 19 2014 at 4:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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LucasNox wrote:

I'm done playing Final Fantasy X HD. If I send it to you for free, would you play it? Just wondering.

Why would you quit if it goes free to play? It would probably make more money and get better updates, honestly. Bigger community. I pay for my subscription already and don't really care but I'm just saying.


No, I'd probably give your copy to someone else and collect my own, new, likely with a newly published guide, to go with my other collectibles about FFX. But that's for an entirely different reason. I'd simply be passing along the kindness. I'd want a copy of my own, and if I'm getting the game for free that I already intend on buying, I'm simply going to pass that kindness on to someone less fortunate.

When it comes to Final Fantasy. I like to support their products, but I prefer to purchase set things that I support. When I buy a game from them, I'm buying that set experience. I can pick and choose which little micro-transaction BS is worth my time at that point, because the display on that is static, not to mention limited as they won't continually add DLC. That said I bought most of FFXIII's DLC, which actually brings me to the point of why I would not play a F2P FF Game:

A Free to Play MMO creates things that rely on impulse purchases for revenue, and as Final Fantasy is a childhood obsession of mine, I would be vulnerable to said impulses. I know myself to know I'd be safer off cutting off such things cold turkey, rather than to play a F2P and subject myself to a constant willpower struggle.

I'm already struggling to figure out how I'm going to pick up some of the hobbies I've been neglecting due to FFXIV on account of time. I don't need it dipping more into another vulnerable area, my finances, more than the lifetime discounted rate I'm already at.

Put bluntly, I know I'm a fanboy. But I'm not going to let that be exploited - I can't afford to tempt that.

And that's not touching any of your typical argumentative tropes against F2P models we could get into - I'm just going to focus on my own personal preferences and vulnerabilities here. Those alone are more than enough reason to say 'nope' to FF F2P.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 6:23pm by Hyrist
#110REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nah Thayos, quote borked.
#111 Mar 19 2014 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Put bluntly, I know I'm a fanboy. But I'm not going to let that be exploited - I can't afford to tempt that.


Amen!

I would never be tempted by cash shops... kind of the opposite. I'd be repelled by things I perceive as "necessary" being placed behind a paywall.

The retainers aren't a big deal for me. My one retainer has more than enough space. But if this goes too far with other things that are necessary, then I'd almost certainly walk away.
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#112REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You probably should just stop buying Final Fantasy then. It's just the current sad state of the gaming industry. They think they can get away with pretty much anything and every big gaming company like Square Enix must maximize profits. It doesn't even have to do with F2P or P2P.
#113 Mar 19 2014 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Konami just sold one $30 mission (you can complete it in as little as 10 minutes) of Metal Gear Solid V as its own individual game. They literally sold it in a box at Gamestop and it's just one sliced off mission of their to-be-released MGSV, and they call it a prequel.


I just read about that, and I couldn't believe it... pretty insane!!! I read the average gameplay -- AVERAGE -- was like 20 minutes.
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#114 Mar 19 2014 at 4:21 PM Rating: Default
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Konami just sold one $30 mission (you can complete it in as little as 10 minutes) of Metal Gear Solid V as its own individual game. They literally sold it in a box at Gamestop and it's just one sliced off mission of their to-be-released MGSV, and they call it a prequel.


I just read about that, and I couldn't believe it... pretty insane!!! I read the average gameplay -- AVERAGE -- was like 20 minutes.


Haha. I wouldn't say was like 20 minutes on average (well, maybe, not counting cutscenes, but I don't think so).

The <10 minute playthroughs are speed runs which skip the cutscenes (there's only 2 cutscenes though).

Not defending it though. It's absolutely disgusting and a new low for the gaming industry. I would guess it probably took an hour-ish for your typical gamer to complete while watching the cutscenes and exploring a bit (there's only one tiny area though) and it's $30.

I just feel bad for some people I know who bought a PS4 to play GZ on it. Yikes. Undeniable proof about the whole gaming review community too, IGN gave it a 8.0/10.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 6:25pm by LucasNox
#115 Mar 19 2014 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
I'd safely bet a thousand dollars that I'd quit this game if it goes free to play.

I have no interest in a F2P FF Title any more than I have an Elder Scrolls MMO. Or a Warcraft MMO for that matter.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 5:51pm by Hyrist


Many have said the same, few follow through. Thayos said similar things, he won't leave either.

You know looking at 2.2 it's entirely possible that it could be the f2p or hybrid patch, they have been putting out content really slowly which would let them have plenty of devs to of been working on that.

Truth is this game won't be sustainable once ESO and Wildstar launches, he knows that. On the positive side the game and indeed zam might liven up with all the new f2p players.


This coming from the guy, again, that said XIV wouldn't last 6 months as P2P. Here we are, past the 6 month mark. Want to bet again that when ESO and Wildstar launch, that XIV will still be P2P for another 6 months?
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#116REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I would take that bet. Honestly. I will make a pretty sizable bet that XIV will be F2P by 6 months post-ESO and WildStar launch. I'll give you a couple hundy through my verified PayPal if it isn't.
#117 Mar 19 2014 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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God, is this still going on?
#118 Mar 19 2014 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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LucasNox wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
preludes wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
I'd safely bet a thousand dollars that I'd quit this game if it goes free to play.

I have no interest in a F2P FF Title any more than I have an Elder Scrolls MMO. Or a Warcraft MMO for that matter.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 5:51pm by Hyrist


Many have said the same, few follow through. Thayos said similar things, he won't leave either.

You know looking at 2.2 it's entirely possible that it could be the f2p or hybrid patch, they have been putting out content really slowly which would let them have plenty of devs to of been working on that.

Truth is this game won't be sustainable once ESO and Wildstar launches, he knows that. On the positive side the game and indeed zam might liven up with all the new f2p players.


This coming from the guy, again, that said XIV wouldn't last 6 months as P2P. Here we are, past the 6 month mark. Want to bet again that when ESO and Wildstar launch, that XIV will still be P2P for another 6 months?


I would take that bet. Honestly. I will make a pretty sizable bet that XIV will be F2P by 6 months post-ESO and WildStar launch. I'll give you a couple hundy through my verified PayPal if it isn't.


For someone complaining about paying for an extra retainer its a wonder you would waste money on that bet Smiley: lol

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 6:40pm by SaitoMishima
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#119REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Seems like a guaranteed payout, haha. I definitely wouldn't have taken it 6 months ago, but Naoki Yoshida basically just slyly confirmed that F2P is coming. Anyone who can't see that isn't reading the same thing as me.
#120 Mar 19 2014 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Thayos said similar things, he won't leave either.


Don't be so sure! Smiley: lol

I was absolutely stoked to play GW2. Had a couple RL friends playing, and my wife was playing, too.

Played for like six months, got a max-level character, reached almost the end of my personal story, and.... just couldn't deal with it anymore. A big reason for that is as I got closer to "endgame," the game's F2P structure became increasingly glaring. There were other reasons, too, but I left that game and never looked back.

The good thing about being a Final Fantasy fan is I've got decades of games to fall back on, some of which I haven't played in years. My world would go on without XIV.
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#121REDACTED, Posted: Mar 19 2014 at 4:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You guys could just not leave but not pay for the extras either. It's actually not that hard, with a little mental training. Or if you want to pay but set some limits for yourself, be like, "I'll only buy one costume a month!"
#122 Mar 19 2014 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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LucasNox wrote:


You probably should just stop buying Final Fantasy then. It's just the current sad state of the gaming industry. They think they can get away with pretty much anything and every big gaming company like Square Enix must maximize profits. It doesn't even have to do with F2P or P2P.

Publishers have been slicing off content of a game you already paid for, and selling it to you again as "additional" for a while now, and it's being a commonly abused practice.

Konami just sold one $30 mission (you can complete it in as little as 10 minutes) of Metal Gear Solid V as its own individual game. They literally sold it in a box at Gamestop and it's just one sliced off mission of their to-be-released MGSV, and they call it a prequel.

Back to the 'stop buying Final Fantasy then' - based on LR and XIII-2, I think you're going to need to learn to control you impulses around these microtransactions and DLC if you're going to keep gaming in general, but definitely for at the very least XIV and XV. Consumers are going to smarten up eventually and basically demand more quality at some point but right now we're all getting screwed over and the publishers are making out like bandits. For now, you've gotta be tough and don't buy into their scams.



I'm well aware of the state of the industry turning games into a service. I've been following that issue far more closely than your average individual.

As far as 'slicing off game content you already paid for.' I do not believe in the dogma provided by the vocal minority on this issue for multiple reasons, but I'll just list the largest one for you.

The price of game production has gone up incredibly over the last twenty years, but game prices have not risen appropriately with production costs in the last decade. What you believe of 'holding of a slice of the game you've already paid for' , to me, shows ignorance of this fact. If you were paying $60 for Playstation 3 level graphics, and we are now on Playstaiton 4, you've been buying an improved product at an inferior price for a while now, and the game companies are trying to make some severely lost revenue back.

Now, if you're willing to sacrifice big-budget quality to maintain your full experience at the $60 price point, then that's fine. But if you're wanting them to maintain top of the line experiences, and not hold some work back to pass the hat? Then you're just being self-entitled. I think at this point most people are realizing the fact that these 'slices of the game' are in fact designed to offset bloating production costs, and the rising independent game market has developed to cater to those who prefer gameplay at a lesser expense than high production quality at a higher-than $60 dollar price-point.

When it comes to Final Fantasy, I am willing to pay that extra if I find that extra content enticing enough. This goes the same for any experience I would enjoy for any game or series I am a fan of. It fills into my whole "I want to support them." thing.


But, honestly, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts and Elder Scrolls are about the only big budget RPG series right now still captivating me. We'll See what Mass Effect does after Shepard is out of the picture, but after Dragon Age II, and how much upheaval the ending of ME3 caused, I'm not holding out too much hope there.

Still planning on getting FFXV. I'm intrigued for that one.

But I've got my eyes looking on the independent market at this point. Very, very few big budget games are as appealing as they once were, and my heart yearns for the more classic games of my childhood. I won't lie.
#123 Mar 19 2014 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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LucasNox wrote:
Consumers are going to smarten up eventually and basically demand more quality at some point
No, they really won't.
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#124 Mar 19 2014 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
This coming from the guy, again, that said XIV wouldn't last 6 months as P2P. Here we are, past the 6 month mark. Want to bet again that when ESO and Wildstar launch, that XIV will still be P2P for another 6 months?


Given that Yoshida's stance has gone from

"That’s why you see a lot of companies that chose the subscription model, that wanted to do what we were doing, but were forced to free-to-play. They didn’t go to free-to-play by choice, because if that was the case, they would have gone free-to-play at the beginning"

to

"It could be a positive change for a game to move from subscription based to F2P as long as the change is based on the users' needs rather than trying to turn an unprofitable game around."

that doesn't really look like such a bad bet to take. My guess would be that at the very least the idea has been kicked around behind the scenes at SE quite a bit already. I wouldn't have bet that FF14 would be free to play six months from release, but six months since both Wildstar/ESO would give them until the end of 2014, and even if those games weren't releasing, that no longer sounds like it would be much of a stretch.
#125 Mar 19 2014 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
lolgaxe wrote:
LucasNox wrote:
Consumers are going to smarten up eventually and basically demand more quality at some point
No, they really won't.


They probably will. I didn't give a time frame. It could be after we're both dead, but it will happen, I think.

Everyone saw the clear uprising which "tamed the beast" which is Microsoft over this summer. That response was entirely related to this subject. All your games would have basically become entirely DLC with no more guaranteed ownership. Gamers collectively threw their monitors at the wall after reading said news.

Even the response to MGSV: GZ has kind of made me proud, even if I'm one of the schmucks who bought it.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 6:59pm by LucasNox
#126 Mar 19 2014 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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LucasNox wrote:
If Naoki Yoshida is telling the truth and their microtransactions don't affect game balance then it shouldn't be a problem but many have said this before and it usually ends up being a lie. Only a few F2P games do it right to this day.


Heh, I couldn't agree more. I remember being all hyped for Guild Wars 2 reading comments on forums going from "ArenaNet does cash shops right, you'll never see crap like exp or stat boosters in the shop like you do in low budget Korean games" to "These items are just for convenience, it's not like they sell the best gear in the game in the cash shop" seemingly over night. Smiley: lol

Edit: I do have to admit though, that the cash shop in the original Guild Wars is probably the best that I have personally seen to date in my limited experience.

Edited, Mar 19th 2014 7:03pm by Susanoh
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