I think Yoshida did a good job in fixing the basic infrastructure of Final Fantasy XIV. He took elements from western MMORPGs (mostly RIFT and World of Warcraft) and applied them to a visually beautiful Japanese Final Fantasy game.
However, I think now that there's a good base to work off of, Square Enix should consider bringing back Tanaka as lead producer & director, retiring Yoshida from his role as director and perhaps giving him a co-producer role to aid Tanaka.
I am in no way bashing Naoki Yoshida. I think the World of Warcraft elements were a good way to get this game on its feet. However, I don't see Yoshida as an "ideas" man. So far, he has only really looked to other games. His ideas for future content are mostly "adding something from (insert popular game) into Final Fantasy XIV".
Basically, if we stay on the road we're going on, we are going to be waiting for a new patch every few months, where our old gear will become irrelevant -- do the new content, get newer gear, wait for next patch -- that gear becomes irrelevant, grind the new content, wait for next content -- etc.
I definitely think bringing Tanaka back would steer us in the right direction and I think that Yoshida has fulfilled his purpose. He did an amazing job, but I think it's time to go.
Edited, Feb 28th 2014 11:37am by LucasNox
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Should they bring back Tanaka?Follow
A: Tanaka retired from Square-Enix due to heath reasons.
B: Still trolling
C: Loving what Yoshi is doing, as I think most will agree.
B: Still trolling
C: Loving what Yoshi is doing, as I think most will agree.
plz no
#4REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 28 2014 at 10:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) He was "asked to step down" from the Final Fantasy XIV team and then "asked to step down" from the Final Fantasy XI team -- after he wrapped up what he was working on and aimed the new team in the right direction. Tanaka did have health issues but he is still working in game development. Square Enix could easily bring him back to work on Final Fantasy XIV.
LucasNox wrote:
Wint wrote:
He was "asked to step down" from the Final Fantasy XIV team and then "asked to step down" from the Final Fantasy XI team -- after he wrapped up what he was working on and aimed the new team in the right direction. Tanaka did have health issues but he is still working in game development. Square Enix could easily bring him back to work on Final Fantasy XIV.
Being 'asked to step down' twice in Japanese culture is akin to being put on the floes ...lol
I'm frankly amazed he stuck around SE after 1.0...
Why really?
I do think since this game is far more successful and financially they can afford more now they should give Yoshi some help.. Increase the size of the development team to help catch up and make sure things roll out when they should. Also increase the help to catch gil sellers.. This is Yoshi's game now.. If FFXIV really helped them out financially that much they need to shift some more focus on the game to keep it going strong.
The guy probably needs a vacation..
Edited, Feb 28th 2014 12:17pm by Nashred
I do think since this game is far more successful and financially they can afford more now they should give Yoshi some help.. Increase the size of the development team to help catch up and make sure things roll out when they should. Also increase the help to catch gil sellers.. This is Yoshi's game now.. If FFXIV really helped them out financially that much they need to shift some more focus on the game to keep it going strong.
The guy probably needs a vacation..
Edited, Feb 28th 2014 12:17pm by Nashred
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Wint wrote:
C: Loving what Yoshi is doing, as I think most will agree.
This ^
So far my biggest problem with the game have been the ranting of unsatisfied players. as if the game owes it to them to alter to their specific catering.
As far as bringing back Tanaka, no, they should not. This is no longer his vision or game and to do so would alienate the already established base, due to the vast differences in game design perspective.
Lucas, most of your trolling is pretty mindless and unoriginal. This is definitely a step up! I actually chuckled a bit at the thread title.
That said.... this would be my reaction if they brought back Tanaka.
That said.... this would be my reaction if they brought back Tanaka.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Doing so would be like replacing Tom Hanks in a starring role with Woody Allen.
Yeah, the latter has done some great stuff, but the former has done great stuff too, and the latter is old and controversial these days.
Yeah, the latter has done some great stuff, but the former has done great stuff too, and the latter is old and controversial these days.
Thayos wrote:
Lucas, most of your trolling is pretty mindless and unoriginal. This is definitely a step up! I actually chuckled a bit at the thread title.
That said.... this would be my reaction if they brought back Tanaka.
That said.... this would be my reaction if they brought back Tanaka.
You being an admin is unfair at times. I cannot rate you up.
Wint wrote:
C: Loving what Yoshi is doing, as I think most will agree.
I don't know what "most" are thinking, but I do know that the thought that FFXIV ARR feels too much like other modern western theme park MMOs isn't an entirely uncommon complaint. In fact, it's probably the most common point of criticism I've seen about this game. It's been shown to work in the past so it's understandable that devs make them in hopes of garnering to some of that success and that there's players that enjoy that style of game, but that there's an ever growing number of people hoping to some some innovation breathe new life into the genre isn't too surprising either.
Why? So the game can fail for a second time? Then we'll have FFXIV: A Realm Reborn Reborn.
No thank you.
No thank you.
When I read threads like these, I wonder "Why aren't you just playing FFXI right now?" I'm sure a common response would be that if FFXI had updated graphics like XIV, they would be playing XI again.
So I'll put this out there. I didn't stop playing XI because of XIV. I stopped playing XI because of XI. XIV is a truly beautiful game. But even if XI looked as good as XIV, it wouldn't draw me back to XI. So I don't see how replacing Yoshi with Tanaka would be a good thing for XIV.
So I'll put this out there. I didn't stop playing XI because of XIV. I stopped playing XI because of XI. XIV is a truly beautiful game. But even if XI looked as good as XIV, it wouldn't draw me back to XI. So I don't see how replacing Yoshi with Tanaka would be a good thing for XIV.
Susanoh wrote:
Wint wrote:
C: Loving what Yoshi is doing, as I think most will agree.
I don't know what "most" are thinking, but I do know that the thought that FFXIV ARR feels too much like other modern western theme park MMOs isn't an entirely uncommon complaint. In fact, it's probably the most common point of criticism I've seen about this game. It's been shown to work in the past so it's understandable that devs make them in hopes of garnering to some of that success and that there's players that enjoy that style of game, but that there's an ever growing number of people hoping to some some innovation breathe new life into the genre isn't too surprising either.
I said "think" for the very reason that I don't actually know for sure. Seems like at least the small sample we have here are happy with Yoshi's approach so far, and things seem to be only getting better. They tried innovation in 1.0, it failed badly. They need a solid base of what people are familiar with and then I agree, it would be nice to see them try some things (and be willing to remove them if they don't work).
YO dude stop trolling geez. Tanaka is dead weight. Its just a mircale they got this back after its living dead phase. Did you remember FFXIV 1.0?
Wint wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
Wint wrote:
C: Loving what Yoshi is doing, as I think most will agree.
I don't know what "most" are thinking, but I do know that the thought that FFXIV ARR feels too much like other modern western theme park MMOs isn't an entirely uncommon complaint. In fact, it's probably the most common point of criticism I've seen about this game. It's been shown to work in the past so it's understandable that devs make them in hopes of garnering to some of that success and that there's players that enjoy that style of game, but that there's an ever growing number of people hoping to some some innovation breathe new life into the genre isn't too surprising either.
I said "think" for the very reason that I don't actually know for sure. Seems like at least the small sample we have here are happy with Yoshi's approach so far, and things seem to be only getting better. They tried innovation in 1.0, it failed badly. They need a solid base of what people are familiar with and then I agree, it would be nice to see them try some things (and be willing to remove them if they don't work).
Oh yeah, no doubt there's some players happy with the current direction of the game. It's a formula that's been proven to have mass appeal and I'm not doubting that there's some players who wholeheartedly agree with it (it's very possible that it's the majority). If nothing changes, some (many?) people would probably be happy with that because they really like that style of game, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I just figured I'd chime in with an opposing view. To many the MMO genre has felt like it's sort of homogenized over the past decade. Inevitably some people like the standards that have been set in place, while others can't wait to break from them. I think this divide will largely determine whether people hold Yoshida's version of FFXIV in high regard. I mean, we could have even caught a glimpse of his vision before ARR was released if we read into quotes from before the game was released, such as this one.
Quote:
However, when the original FFXIV was in development, the goal of the project was simply to make a game that was different from Final Fantasy XI. Yoshida feels that the creators didn't recognize that the global standard of MMOs had been significantly raised in recent years. He would have suggested a different path for the game—one that mirrored FFXI's own creation. "I think it would've been good if they tried seeing what happened if they turned World of Warcraft into Final Fantasy. So, because they tried only to make something that was 'different from FFXI,' they ended up with not much of anything."
"They should have said, 'Hey you, go play WoW for a year [for inspiration].'"
"They should have said, 'Hey you, go play WoW for a year [for inspiration].'"
Depending on your view of what a new MMO should be like, this line of thinking could either be seen as the best or the worst thing for the state of the game. Over a year later, we've gotten to see his vision realized (at least, an early version of it) in ARR over the past six months. Some may be impressed with Yoshida and the current team's efforts to mold FFXIV into current MMO standards, but others might see him as a follower who's best trait shown so far is incorporating game design philosophies of those who came before him. It's all just perspective, and probably a bit of personal preference/bias as well.
Edited, Feb 28th 2014 2:52pm by Susanoh
LucasNox wrote:
However, I think now that there's a good base to work off of, Square Enix should consider bringing back Tanaka as lead producer & director, retiring Yoshida from his role as director and perhaps giving him a co-producer role to aid Tanaka.
You can't argue with success... unless you're a troll.
Wint wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
Wint wrote:
C: Loving what Yoshi is doing, as I think most will agree.
I don't know what "most" are thinking, but I do know that the thought that FFXIV ARR feels too much like other modern western theme park MMOs isn't an entirely uncommon complaint. In fact, it's probably the most common point of criticism I've seen about this game. It's been shown to work in the past so it's understandable that devs make them in hopes of garnering to some of that success and that there's players that enjoy that style of game, but that there's an ever growing number of people hoping to some some innovation breathe new life into the genre isn't too surprising either.
I said "think" for the very reason that I don't actually know for sure. Seems like at least the small sample we have here are happy with Yoshi's approach so far, and things seem to be only getting better. They tried innovation in 1.0, it failed badly. They need a solid base of what people are familiar with and then I agree, it would be nice to see them try some things (and be willing to remove them if they don't work).
I disagree with you.
So if innovation failed, then devs should never be innovative again? EVER? Yeah, I can agree to that, if we are talking about the current status of ARR, then I can agree with you.
As many have said already, the current ARR is basically taking every thing that Western MMO's were successful at, then reusing them with a FF theme. How can anyone be proud of it?
While some of you may think that Yoshida saved FFXIV, I on the other hand thinks that he killed it. Yoshida killed the "SOUL" of Final Fantasy games, by turning it into WoW/Rift. He did bring in the subscribers that WoW and other Western MMO's lost... so... in a business sense, he succeeded. In terms of a Artist's creativity, innovation, he killed the very SOUL of FF MMO franchise.
I don't completely disagree with bringing back Tanaka, but I do not agree to put him on FFXIV. If I was Chairman of S.E., I would bring back Tanaka, have him handle an entirely different project. Give him a second chance on a new S.E. MMO, where he takes the helm. Then we can see how the two MMO's fair against each other.
Then we can truly find out who's direction is correct, who's work can maintain the most loyal FF fans.
Tanaka vs. Yoshida, gloves are off.
I rarely chime in anymore, however this thread sparked my interest.
I love the changes from 1.0 to now but in PART I will say I agree with the OP. I played FFXI religiously for the first 6 or 7 years it was out. I loved every minute of it. After Treasures, due to joining the military I just couldn't invest time into it anymore though so I drifted to WoW for a year or 2 then onto other MMOs to fill the gap but nothing ever hit me like XI did and honestly I don't think anything ever will. I know I will never go back, cause IMO Abyssea just ended how I felt about it to an extent.
I know 14 will be successful bu I AM worried it is going to go down the same path of every other MMO now where it's working hard to get awesome gear only to have it useless in a month or 2 because of a new coil or CT floor. Now I know that new content is inevitable, as it should be, but that's where I think XI got me for the long haul. There was SO much gear for so many situations. It made customizations almost endless.
I also miss the party based leveling in XI but maybe I was sadistic in my younger days, lol. Honestly that is one thing I miss the most. You can always get a new FC but nothing will ever beat an awesome LS on XI.
I do know that because of the accessibility 14 just fits me at the moment. All in all I just don't want the grind fest every 6 months to get a new relic or i150 set or something.
I love the changes from 1.0 to now but in PART I will say I agree with the OP. I played FFXI religiously for the first 6 or 7 years it was out. I loved every minute of it. After Treasures, due to joining the military I just couldn't invest time into it anymore though so I drifted to WoW for a year or 2 then onto other MMOs to fill the gap but nothing ever hit me like XI did and honestly I don't think anything ever will. I know I will never go back, cause IMO Abyssea just ended how I felt about it to an extent.
I know 14 will be successful bu I AM worried it is going to go down the same path of every other MMO now where it's working hard to get awesome gear only to have it useless in a month or 2 because of a new coil or CT floor. Now I know that new content is inevitable, as it should be, but that's where I think XI got me for the long haul. There was SO much gear for so many situations. It made customizations almost endless.
I also miss the party based leveling in XI but maybe I was sadistic in my younger days, lol. Honestly that is one thing I miss the most. You can always get a new FC but nothing will ever beat an awesome LS on XI.
I do know that because of the accessibility 14 just fits me at the moment. All in all I just don't want the grind fest every 6 months to get a new relic or i150 set or something.
I'm sorry but this idea just not even a little good. "This game was horrible when Tanaka made it, Yoshida spent two years fixing it, so the best thing we could do now is give it to Tanaka now that it has users who actually think the game is worth subscribing to", seems to be your train of thought, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I could not think of a worse idea. Seriously, why would you do this?
Edited, Mar 1st 2014 1:47pm by Ryklin
I could not think of a worse idea. Seriously, why would you do this?
Edited, Mar 1st 2014 1:47pm by Ryklin
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Square should just kill the Final Fantasy IP and start trying to sell games on merit instead of by name recognition. They did a pretty good job by just naming Bravely Default, well, Bravely Default instead of Final Fantasy Anything. Even if there is absolutely no delusion that it is a Final Fantasy game, it's just comforting that it isn't on label.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
I think Yoshida has done a great job... I only wish I could play more often then I do!
I don't know what the OP is talking about here.
Was Tanaka the guy who created version 1.0? If so wouldn't that be a horrible mistake to bring back the guy who almost killed the company, and replace the guy who saved SquareEnix almost single-handedly?
I don't know what the OP is talking about here.
Was Tanaka the guy who created version 1.0? If so wouldn't that be a horrible mistake to bring back the guy who almost killed the company, and replace the guy who saved SquareEnix almost single-handedly?
GiftedChild wrote:
So if innovation failed, then devs should never be innovative again? EVER? Yeah, I can agree to that, if we are talking about the current status of ARR, then I can agree with you.
You seem to have missed the part where Wint said
Wint wrote:
They need a solid base of what people are familiar with and then I agree, it would be nice to see them try some things (and be willing to remove them if they don't work).
Edited, Feb 28th 2014 1:35pm by fatpolomanjr
Someone leaving a company for 'health issues' is one of two things. Either the employee doesn't want to dishonor the company or vice versa. Plus he came out and said he was returning to game development pretty much at the same time he was stepping down from SE. Last I heard he is already employed at GungHo, best known for the wildly popular Puzzle and Dragons mobile game.
Honestly if I had to pick someone to succeed Yoshi, it would be Matsui. I still think that XI is doing more on the updates and features front than XIV is. If they ever overhauled the UI like they stated in the past, I'd probably go back to XI to give it another shot. It's a more attractive option to me already at this point.
Honestly if I had to pick someone to succeed Yoshi, it would be Matsui. I still think that XI is doing more on the updates and features front than XIV is. If they ever overhauled the UI like they stated in the past, I'd probably go back to XI to give it another shot. It's a more attractive option to me already at this point.
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
I see both sides for most players. There are some who really started enjoying 1.23 and saw where the game was going, and it does feel like the game did a complete 180 towards what we have now. I myself had picked up 1.0 towards the end of it's life, and it have something going for it that seems to be missing in 2.0.
Now don't get me wrong, I was subbed for 6 months and just decided to let it expire and not resub, but those 6 months were damn fun. I just felt in the last month or so, I had no reason to log on. This is my first modern MMO (that I actually stick to beyond the first couple weeks) , and I saw lots of appeal early on, then towards the end...not so much. The addition of more Coil, more primals, just doesn't seem appealing. This in my opinion is where they need to start varying their events, otherwise it'll be the same mundane stuff over and over.
Like I say, 0 regrets with the 6 month sub cause I did play more than I would of any other game I would of bought new for 60$. If they don't mix up the formula though, I feel there going to lose a lot of players.
Now don't get me wrong, I was subbed for 6 months and just decided to let it expire and not resub, but those 6 months were damn fun. I just felt in the last month or so, I had no reason to log on. This is my first modern MMO (that I actually stick to beyond the first couple weeks) , and I saw lots of appeal early on, then towards the end...not so much. The addition of more Coil, more primals, just doesn't seem appealing. This in my opinion is where they need to start varying their events, otherwise it'll be the same mundane stuff over and over.
Like I say, 0 regrets with the 6 month sub cause I did play more than I would of any other game I would of bought new for 60$. If they don't mix up the formula though, I feel there going to lose a lot of players.
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Someone leaving a company for 'health issues' is one of two things. Either the employee doesn't want to dishonor the company or vice versa. Plus he came out and said he was returning to game development pretty much at the same time he was stepping down from SE. Last I heard he is already employed at GungHo, best known for the wildly popular Puzzle and Dragons mobile game.
Honestly if I had to pick someone to succeed Yoshi, it would be Matsui. I still think that XI is doing more on the updates and features front than XIV is. If they ever overhauled the UI like they stated in the past, I'd probably go back to XI to give it another shot. It's a more attractive option to me already at this point.
Honestly if I had to pick someone to succeed Yoshi, it would be Matsui. I still think that XI is doing more on the updates and features front than XIV is. If they ever overhauled the UI like they stated in the past, I'd probably go back to XI to give it another shot. It's a more attractive option to me already at this point.
The preview UI on the test server sucks donkey balls which is why it hasn't been put out there for realz yet.
But hey, we finally are getting Cait Sith and vanity armor in the next patch. After, what, six years that they promised both things?
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