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Coil vs. CT post 2.2Follow

#1 Feb 22 2014 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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So I've been thinking and maybe I'm just not seeing something right. If coil is farmable via DF, easier, and myth cap is dropped...why would you bother farming CT any more even if the lockout there was gone too?

Am I just not getting it?!?

Thanks :)
#2 Feb 22 2014 at 10:59 PM Rating: Good
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This is very true I was wondering the same thing. Aside from vanity its hardly worth the time.

Edit: If I had to guess I would say they will raise the amount of tomes you can receive from doing it. Only a few ways to keep people going.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2014 12:01am by SaitoMishima
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#3 Feb 22 2014 at 11:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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for free easy gear for those that need to fill in slots.

coil isn't a walk in the park, and you definitely need to be geared enough. simply removing the weekly cap to run coil isn't going to make it any easier than it is now to farm.

turn 1 & 2 will be farmed because those are relatively easy and can be done in i70ish gear. t4 & 5 is going to be a wall for a lot of people until they get the gear they need. and some of that gear comes from t4 and t5 so CT will still be viable.
#4 Feb 22 2014 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
for free easy gear for those that need to fill in slots.

coil isn't a walk in the park, and you definitely need to be geared enough. simply removing the weekly cap to run coil isn't going to make it any easier than it is now to farm.

turn 1 & 2 will be farmed because those are relatively easy and can be done in i70ish gear. t4 & 5 is going to be a wall for a lot of people until they get the gear they need. and some of that gear comes from t4 and t5 so CT will still be viable.


But if you're farming T1 and T2 for drops why not just buy myth gear from the 50 tomes you get per run and skip CT?

Maybe they'll cut the number of tomes you get from BC?

Edited, Feb 22nd 2014 9:10pm by LebargeX
#5 Feb 22 2014 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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Eh it's a good question. If they weren't removing the myth cap, it might make sense. I would hope they would also remove the weekly limit on number of CT items as well. Only way I personally see it wouldn't become completely obsolete.
#6 Feb 23 2014 at 12:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
for free easy gear for those that need to fill in slots.

coil isn't a walk in the park, and you definitely need to be geared enough. simply removing the weekly cap to run coil isn't going to make it any easier than it is now to farm.

turn 1 & 2 will be farmed because those are relatively easy and can be done in i70ish gear. t4 & 5 is going to be a wall for a lot of people until they get the gear they need. and some of that gear comes from t4 and t5 so CT will still be viable.


From what I've been reading people are expecting an echo buff in addition to some pretty severe difficulty nerfs to the current coil turns in 2.2. I haven't seen every interview to confirm how much of that is known but if that is the case, it would make coil much easier to farm and obtain i90 allagan equipment while getting quite a bit of mythology at the same time to spend on even more i90 equipment.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2014 1:07am by Susanoh
#7 Feb 24 2014 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Well there will be higher gear coming from the new turns of coil.
Honestly Ct probably will become obsolete till they add more too CT. My guess is most people wont run turns 1-5 either except to get too get too turns 6 - 10... We also know there are new tomes coming for higher gear so most wont even care about any old gear except those who have not got their I90 gear.

But you are right those still needing I90 gear to beat turn 6-10 will probably do 1-5 especially since they are going to make it easier.. Not all Alagan pieces are BIS.



Edited, Feb 24th 2014 9:48am by Nashred
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#8 Feb 24 2014 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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easy answer, if you need something better then darklight. people keep saying the it will become obsolete, that is true but so will ilvl 90. there will be new tome items and coil items that will be a higher ilvl. so yeah if you want the bis gear you wont be bothered with myth tomes and turn 1-6 items you can argue that ilvl 90 gear is going to be irreverent.
#9 Feb 24 2014 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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I forgot about the vanity items dropping in CT... I guess that would be a good reason :)
#10 Feb 24 2014 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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domice wrote:
easy answer, if you need something better then darklight. people keep saying the it will become obsolete, that is true but so will ilvl 90. there will be new tome items and coil items that will be a higher ilvl. so yeah if you want the bis gear you wont be bothered with myth tomes and turn 1-6 items you can argue that ilvl 90 gear is going to be irreverent.


I don't know if you could call i90 equipment "obsolete" unless there's a better alternative that isn't locked away behind a time barrier, since it'd still be the best you could get for quite a while. The best equipment you can get in a reasonable amount of time without having to wait weeks/months will always have a purpose.
#11 Feb 24 2014 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
I don't know if you could call i90 equipment "obsolete" unless there's a better alternative that isn't locked away behind a time barrier, since it'd still be the best you could get for quite a while. The best equipment you can get in a reasonable amount of time without having to wait weeks/months will always have a purpose.


Exactly.

And until Titan HM gets nerfed, that i90 gear will always be in demand as the most accessible means for getting through that roadblock.
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#12 Feb 24 2014 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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Susanoh wrote:
domice wrote:
easy answer, if you need something better then darklight. people keep saying the it will become obsolete, that is true but so will ilvl 90. there will be new tome items and coil items that will be a higher ilvl. so yeah if you want the bis gear you wont be bothered with myth tomes and turn 1-6 items you can argue that ilvl 90 gear is going to be irreverent.


I don't know if you could call i90 equipment "obsolete" unless there's a better alternative that isn't locked away behind a time barrier, since it'd still be the best you could get for quite a while. The best equipment you can get in a reasonable amount of time without having to wait weeks/months will always have a purpose.


the funny thing is that is the same argument that was used against ct gear. atm ct gear is the second best gear in the game with myth coil being first. and everyone said whats the point of getting ct gear since its not the best and you will soon replace it. now there is a new level of gear coming out and myth and coil gear will be the new ct gear. you can farm up for myth and coil gear but whats the point since you will just replace it with the new stuff anyways. and i highly doubt you will need anything higher then ilvl 80 for the first few new turns anyways. so if you get ct gear you can prolly still use it in the new turns (just maybe not the last one sort of like the way it is now you can use darklight just not in the last one) so if you have 3 or 4 jobs ct gear is still relevant for the jobs that you play the least on
#13 Feb 24 2014 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
I don't know if you could call i90 equipment "obsolete" unless there's a better alternative that isn't locked away behind a time barrier, since it'd still be the best you could get for quite a while. The best equipment you can get in a reasonable amount of time without having to wait weeks/months will always have a purpose.


Exactly.

And until Titan HM gets nerfed, that i90 gear will always be in demand as the most accessible means for getting through that roadblock.


ilvl 80 ct gear is way more then enough to blow through titan HM and coil turns 1-5, people just never really cared for it to begin with due to it not having a higher ilvl then myth or coil when it was added, and not for not actually being really good pieces in there own right that actually allow them to complete any content in the game with ease.
#14 Feb 24 2014 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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domice wrote:
Susanoh wrote:
domice wrote:
easy answer, if you need something better then darklight. people keep saying the it will become obsolete, that is true but so will ilvl 90. there will be new tome items and coil items that will be a higher ilvl. so yeah if you want the bis gear you wont be bothered with myth tomes and turn 1-6 items you can argue that ilvl 90 gear is going to be irreverent.


I don't know if you could call i90 equipment "obsolete" unless there's a better alternative that isn't locked away behind a time barrier, since it'd still be the best you could get for quite a while. The best equipment you can get in a reasonable amount of time without having to wait weeks/months will always have a purpose.


the funny thing is that is the same argument that was used against ct gear. atm ct gear is the second best gear in the game with myth coil being first. and everyone said whats the point of getting ct gear since its not the best and you will soon replace it. now there is a new level of gear coming out and myth and coil gear will be the new ct gear. you can farm up for myth and coil gear but whats the point since you will just replace it with the new stuff anyways. and i highly doubt you will need anything higher then ilvl 80 for the first few new turns anyways. so if you get ct gear you can prolly still use it in the new turns (just maybe not the last one sort of like the way it is now you can use darklight just not in the last one) so if you have 3 or 4 jobs ct gear is still relevant for the jobs that you play the least on


Even if you can take i80 equipment into the new coil turns, I just can't see people wanting to farm it if coil and myth are so easily accessible. Any equipment that is easily farmed is going to be the standard for beginner end game equipment. The current darklight/crafted i70 has a place because it's the best you can get before running into lockouts where you can no longer progress until a reset. i90 equipment might end up being even easier to obtain than current i70 equipment depending on how much the difficulty has been reduced in coil, due to the fact you can not only easily achieve it by farming unlimited tomes, but you can also just receive it as a simple drop all at once in an event that you can run constantly. If progression is the goal, people aren't going to spend time getting lower level equipment from CT when in that same amount of time they could be getting higher level equipment from coil just as quickly and as much as they want.

Edited, Feb 24th 2014 12:43pm by Susanoh
#15 Feb 25 2014 at 3:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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The reason CT gear is popular right now is it gives people a way to gear up jobs that are not their mains without spending a precious resource or relying on RNG gods. To a lesser extent, vanity might be a reason as well.

And CT gear has a self-lock itself. Myth will have no lock on it. Basically, do you remember when people were running CM/Praetorium for philosophy tomes early on in the game? That is how myth will be. Currently, it's very easy to farm philosophy tomes. After the patch, it will be very easy to farm mythology tomes.

However, while you farm mythology tomes (outside of coil), you are also given philosophy tomes as well. So, when you look at a fresh 50's gear progression, it'd be something like:

Ding level 50 and do story missions > start farming mythology tomes > get philosophy tomes while farming myth tomes > spend mythology on big upgrades and philosophy on slots you plan to replace later to increase ilevel > eventually unlock more fights because of the myth and DL gear you just purchased > farm coil 1-5 while gaining myth

MAYBE you would run CT in there but I just don't see the need for it unless the bonus mythology/philosophy rewards are increased substantially for CT.
#16 Feb 25 2014 at 4:40 AM Rating: Good
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Coil will still be coil. We've yet to see how "easy" it will actually be post 2.2.

CT is probably still going to be better for players that are somewhat new to the game, and having just gotten into FF14 endgame. CT is a bit more relaxing, in that you can derp a bit and still pull through with a win. Coil probably won't be so forgiving for DF parties trying to get through turn 1, 4, or 5, even though they may make them slightly easier. Again, we won't know until we jump in for ourselves.

Personally though, I can see CT being a bit pointless, but I can also see me running it with a new 50 class to get some gear to tide me over while I am grinding for myth.

Edited, Feb 25th 2014 5:43am by supermegazeke
#17 Feb 25 2014 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
They'll just lump CT as its own roulette that rewards ilvl90+ tokens. Problem solved!
#18 Feb 25 2014 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
They'll just lump CT as its own roulette that rewards ilvl90+ tokens. Problem solved!


Oooo... now I could see that working fo shizzle ;p
#19 Feb 25 2014 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
The reason CT gear is popular right now is it gives people a way to gear up jobs that are not their mains without spending a precious resource or relying on RNG gods. To a lesser extent, vanity might be a reason as well.

And CT gear has a self-lock itself. Myth will have no lock on it. Basically, do you remember when people were running CM/Praetorium for philosophy tomes early on in the game? That is how myth will be. Currently, it's very easy to farm philosophy tomes. After the patch, it will be very easy to farm mythology tomes.

However, while you farm mythology tomes (outside of coil), you are also given philosophy tomes as well. So, when you look at a fresh 50's gear progression, it'd be something like:

Ding level 50 and do story missions > start farming mythology tomes > get philosophy tomes while farming myth tomes > spend mythology on big upgrades and philosophy on slots you plan to replace later to increase ilevel > eventually unlock more fights because of the myth and DL gear you just purchased > farm coil 1-5 while gaining myth

MAYBE you would run CT in there but I just don't see the need for it unless the bonus mythology/philosophy rewards are increased substantially for CT.


Exactly this.

Philo and myth tomes are easily lumped together regardless of the content you do and much easier to farm as it only has a 4man requirement but CT requires more man power and longer to start up. Roulettes feel like they are at the tip of a finger! lol. CT will definitly need a boost and I dont think keeping the lockout on CT is even a question with myth uncapped.

Edited, Feb 25th 2014 1:11pm by AlexandEric
#20 Feb 25 2014 at 12:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, there is going to be more CT levels right? Maybe they'll institute CT+1 gear, where you need the base piece from Labyrinth of the Ancients, plus currency from the next phase of CT to upgrade to an i100 piece which is equal iLvl to Coil 6-9 gear. That way CT would never empty because we need the base armor.

If its just vanity gear and remains i80 then I agree no one will ever do it. It would become the new Westwind Cape, which is a nightmare for new players needing the first clear because no one ever does it. I hope CT is not made irrelevant, despite its trolls and sometimes hour long length due to stupid wipes, I enjoy it.
#21 Feb 25 2014 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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I think there is a new type of tome coming to 2.2 also, if I'm not mistaken. Pretty sure they were mentioning it in one of the latest live letters.

Aside from that, I think fresh 50's will still run CT. It's easy, and the rewards are good (gear, phil tomes, myth tomes). I cant even remember how many times I ran CM and Prae (those don't even give myth) when I was fresh to 50, before even stepping foot inside AK or anywhere near the Coil. I feel like CT is somewhat of a replacement for CM/Prae, and if I was new to this again, I would probably spam the hell out CT once I got there.

It's not like all players are going to dive straight into Coil as soon as they hit 50.
#22 Feb 25 2014 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think CT is a pretty reliable bridge to gear up for Coil. Even though it may technically be possible to go in iLvl70 gear, I often see Party Finder Coil groups set their minimum at least at iLvl80 if not higher. I think people still are going to have high standards for Coil, even if it's made easier.

EDIT: I should add, it would help a great deal if they remove the weekly constraints on gear collection if they're removing the myth cap as well.

Edited, Feb 25th 2014 5:46pm by Xoie
#23 Feb 25 2014 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
The reason CT gear is popular right now is it gives people a way to gear up jobs that are not their mains without spending a precious resource or relying on RNG gods. To a lesser extent, vanity might be a reason as well.

And CT gear has a self-lock itself. Myth will have no lock on it. Basically, do you remember when people were running CM/Praetorium for philosophy tomes early on in the game? That is how myth will be. Currently, it's very easy to farm philosophy tomes. After the patch, it will be very easy to farm mythology tomes.

However, while you farm mythology tomes (outside of coil), you are also given philosophy tomes as well. So, when you look at a fresh 50's gear progression, it'd be something like:

Ding level 50 and do story missions > start farming mythology tomes > get philosophy tomes while farming myth tomes > spend mythology on big upgrades and philosophy on slots you plan to replace later to increase ilevel > eventually unlock more fights because of the myth and DL gear you just purchased > farm coil 1-5 while gaining myth

MAYBE you would run CT in there but I just don't see the need for it unless the bonus mythology/philosophy rewards are increased substantially for CT.


the issue i have with this is that if you are a fresh 50 job running a dungeon it will take you about 30+ mins and boarding on 45 to a hour depending on how many fresh 50s are in you party and at most you get 100 phil and 50 myth. now if you are a fresh 50 and run ct it will be about 45 min or less and you net 200 phil tomes 50 myth and a ilvl 80 pieces. so yeah in theory if you already have a capped out or near capped job you can just spam dungeons on that job but other then that, ct is a very reliable way to gear and a faster way to gear for people that are just reaching 50 or have a few jobs at 50 that are not high ilvls.
#24 Feb 25 2014 at 11:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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That is kind of what makes me a little irritated. If they had kept coil's difficulty the way it is, CT would be the perfect stepping stone for people who need the extra push gear-wise. It would keep people queuing for CT.

To me, the nerf to coil seems like it undoes this design. I guess it really depends on how difficult coil will be after the patch.
#25 Feb 27 2014 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
We are going to farm Myths and Coil 1-5, right? So ilvl 90-ish will be the new "I have full Darklight" tier.

It will be an absolute breeze to level a fresh 50 up to ilvl 80+, using Philo, Myth and Coil. I see this as making the EX primals around the same difficulty as what HM Titan is to a 85+ party now.

The big questions is, with a majority of the content getting substantially easier due to ilvl increase, will there be enough new content to keep players busy?

Coil 6-10 promises to be a good chunk, assuming none of the them are primarily just jumping through hoops. At least not literal hoops. Leviathan should be cool. I wonder what loot it will drop? Too early for new accessories. Will they put a single item, like a head-piece, in Leviathan and the rest in Coil? And a couple new dungeons too, right?

So 7~8 new full-sized battle activities and some other things, beast quest, crafting something, etc. Hmm, sounds like enough. We will see soon.
#26 Feb 27 2014 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't go as far as saying ilvl90 is going to be the new "DL" tier...

If you limit yourself to 1 Main Story Roulette, 1 Low Level, and 1 CT a day...that's 600 Phil...enough for any accessory, any visible piece other than body/legs or combos. That's about 3-4 hours hopefully depending on what job and competency of the group (Yeah you can do this in 2 hours, but I'm being conservative).

Now I'm new to coil, so forgive me if I don't have proper expectations...but that would take 12 runs of coil to meet. At say 30m a run, that's 6 hours. At 20m a run, that's still 4 hours. This all assumes you have a good enough group that even with changes you can cruise through, and no wait time between runs or lfg

I think you'll see a drastically easier time, but for myself and my FC folks who are non-legacy, none of us have full relic, I don't think anyone has Allegen gear either. However most of us when we get new jobs to 50 has a full DL set waiting there from CT and other stuff adding tomes up. I don't think we'll be able to say anywhere near the same about Myth...I think it'll be something to work towards, and a very attainable goal, but unless they increase the amount of tomes you get per run, I'm not sure it'll be as easy as "DL Tier" was to attain.

My 2 gil :p
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