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World Mobs like Dungeon MobsFollow

#1 Jan 28 2014 at 2:19 AM Rating: Default
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Me and a FC mate of mine were wondering about maybe having the world mobs act or being as tough as the mobs found in dungeons. At least for the areas with high lvl mobs. Raise the stats on them or give them some buffs or something. Just kinda weird that every job and even class is a solo master pretty much. You might also bring back that scary feeling going into higher lvl areas. I also don't mean give them the same exp. like dungeon mobs. You might have people partying more or also using more food which will help the economy.
#2 Jan 28 2014 at 3:29 AM Rating: Default
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Yoshi-P: Having enemies that can potentially kill you in the overworld is too stressful to the playerbase. I want a world full of danger but at the same time allowing you to die in the overworld goes against my philosophy of stress free gaming.

In a perfect world we'd have an MMO kind of like FFXI where monsters are actually dangerous and doesn't fall over just because you're an adventurer of any level.
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#3 Jan 28 2014 at 4:37 AM Rating: Decent
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The problem with world mobs that act like dungeon mobs is that people use them to kill other players.

1. drag monster to unsuspecting victim
2. die/teleport/zone/etc.
3. point/laugh as victim gets killed by monster

You'd think this would just be an isolated problem, but in FFXI this grew into a bloodsport (zoning into a region where someone had dragged 20 mobs that instantly aggro and murder you before you knew what happened was always "fun" to go through) until SE just gave up and pulled the plug on it.

This is why we can't have nice things.
#4 Jan 28 2014 at 4:48 AM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
The problem with world mobs that act like dungeon mobs is that people use them to kill other players.

You'd think this would just be an isolated problem, but in FFXI this grew into a bloodsport (zoning into a region where someone had dragged 20 mobs that instantly aggro and murder you before you knew what happened was always "fun" to go through) until SE just gave up and pulled the plug on it.

This is why we can't have nice things.


We've had nice things for a while now. Mobs in XI despawn after they lose enmity toward whatever aggro'd them initially. It's been like that for almost 10 years now. No reason it couldn't work the same way in XIV.



Edited, Jan 28th 2014 5:50am by FilthMcNasty
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#5 Jan 28 2014 at 4:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's already like that in some FATEs (mainly the higher level ones) that have had their enemies' HP massively toned up due to their previous iterations getting swarmed by FATE trains (why did this get patched, anyway?)

I don't think we need to have vanilla trash mobs be made similarly difficult.
#6 Jan 28 2014 at 5:00 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
The problem with world mobs that act like dungeon mobs is that people use them to kill other players.

You'd think this would just be an isolated problem, but in FFXI this grew into a bloodsport (zoning into a region where someone had dragged 20 mobs that instantly aggro and murder you before you knew what happened was always "fun" to go through) until SE just gave up and pulled the plug on it.

This is why we can't have nice things.


We've had nice things for a while now. Mobs in XI despawn after they lose enmity toward whatever aggro'd them initially. It's been like that for almost 10 years now. No reason it couldn't work the same way in XIV.


Well, they are functionally the equivalent, except in FFXI you can run away to the ends of the zone with as many mobs in tow as you want as long as you hold some sort of hate on them. Which leads to the other problems such as holding monsters in a far corner of the zone indefinitely to grief farmers and questers, pulling whole zones for XP and leaving all other players with nothing to go after, etc.

Because FFXIV lets you go after mobs someone else has claimed, it would also open up new avenues of MPK. You could drag a level 49 mob to low level areas and look for places where people frequently use AoE (a site of a quest, for example) and just sneak up behind them until they get your "present" on their hate list.

Edited, Jan 28th 2014 6:24am by Xoie
#7 Jan 28 2014 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
The problem with world mobs that act like dungeon mobs is that people use them to kill other players.

You'd think this would just be an isolated problem, but in FFXI this grew into a bloodsport (zoning into a region where someone had dragged 20 mobs that instantly aggro and murder you before you knew what happened was always "fun" to go through) until SE just gave up and pulled the plug on it.

This is why we can't have nice things.


We've had nice things for a while now. Mobs in XI despawn after they lose enmity toward whatever aggro'd them initially. It's been like that for almost 10 years now. No reason it couldn't work the same way in XIV.



Edited, Jan 28th 2014 5:50am by FilthMcNasty


I didn't know they changed this... last time I played you could still get slaughtered zoning into CN or the dunes.
#8 Jan 28 2014 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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What you're more likely to find is that these mobs will never be killed outside of possible quest requirements.

Ignoring XI for a moment, I think back to Aion and how they had literal sections of zones stocked with nothing but what we could call dungeon/elite mobs here. The only ones that ever got killed were tied to repeatable, albeit grindy quests that rewarded decent gear for its level. And this only happened in the early 30s and then at the, then cap 50, for the miragent set at the weapon phase. Very rarely would one see people just killing these mobs for the hell of it. Even when I soloed Kratia with my cleric, it was rarely I actually engaged the surrounding mobs, instead favoring pulling her to a safe spot near a waterfall.

That said, I'm not outright against more powerful mobs in the open world, but I'd very much like to see it reflective of a more dynamic system, which would also require new zones built with such in mind. We need FATEs where the objective is to attack/defend a point, as an example, where the outcome results in modifying the strength of related mobs and influencing which FATEs spawn after. Give players access to good things if these mobs are suppressed to their weakest state, but at the same time, you need to make them worth killing when they aren't without completely encouraging people to never weaken them. Basically, this would be a good spot to slip in meaningful acquisition rates for the current top tier of tomes based on its relative level. And I'm not just talking like 5 per hour, but literally comparable to dungeons.
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#9 Jan 28 2014 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
There was also the power leveling problem they had in 1.0 in which a high level would be in a party with 7 low levels, get aggro/hate on a high level mob, drop party, kill it, and everyone in the party would get full credit.

Anyway, as mentioned, we do have NMs in the overworld in FATES. Many of the stars of the FATE fights were singular NMs in FFXI or other FF games. I prefer a once an hour FATE to a once every 3-4 hours little NM anyway.
#10 Jan 28 2014 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Because FFXIV lets you go after mobs someone else has claimed, it would also open up new avenues of MPK. You could drag a level 49 mob to low level areas and look for places where people frequently use AoE (a site of a quest, for example) and just sneak up behind them until they get your "present" on their hate list.


I've never tried it, but I didn't realize that it was possible to train mobs from one area to another. I assumed leashing mechanics(mob drops aggro or despawns when taken outside a certain radius of it's spawn) were already in place. This statement already applies to XIV even without difficult world mobs so that issue needs to be addressed anyway.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#11 Jan 28 2014 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Because FFXIV lets you go after mobs someone else has claimed, it would also open up new avenues of MPK. You could drag a level 49 mob to low level areas and look for places where people frequently use AoE (a site of a quest, for example) and just sneak up behind them until they get your "present" on their hate list.


I've never tried it, but I didn't realize that it was possible to train mobs from one area to another. I assumed leashing mechanics(mob drops aggro or despawns when taken outside a certain radius of it's spawn) were already in place. This statement already applies to XIV even without difficult world mobs so that issue needs to be addressed anyway.


FFXIV does have a leash on the mobs where at the end of the leash they drop aggro and run back while being invulnerable until they return. There are level 45+ mobs REALLY close to level 20ish mobs in several areas though.

I don't know if I'm replying correctly... I keep re-reading your post lol...
#12 Jan 30 2014 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Are'nt Behemoth and Odin in the overworld (albeit in a FATE, but in the overworld nonetheless)?
#13REDACTED, Posted: Jan 30 2014 at 1:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I did say i don't think they should drop the same exp like dungeon mobs, so the whole power leveling concept doesn't even need to be talked about. What do fate NMs have to do with open world trash mobs. I hate fates and always will hate fates. All I was saying was to make some of the higher lvl mobs, like the ones found in the slyphlands and other areas where 46 and up mobs walk around is to be somewhat more difficult. I shouldn't be able to hand four lvl 49 mobs on my SCH with ease. You can leave the other areas alone if that's what people are worried about. I should need gear on when fighting these mobs instead of rolling in swimwear. Odin and Behemoth don't even count towards my topic, since they are fates and only pop once every few days. They are also not hard fights. The hardest thing about those fights is seeing them and your party memebers. It would also give doing beastman quest more challenge.
#14 Jan 30 2014 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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EvilMadMike1982 wrote:
I did say i don't think they should drop the same exp like dungeon mobs, so the whole power leveling concept doesn't even need to be talked about. What do fate NMs have to do with open world trash mobs. I hate fates and always will hate fates. All I was saying was to make some of the higher lvl mobs, like the ones found in the slyphlands and other areas where 46 and up mobs walk around is to be somewhat more difficult. I shouldn't be able to hand four lvl 49 mobs on my SCH with ease. You can leave the other areas alone if that's what people are worried about. I should need gear on when fighting these mobs instead of rolling in swimwear. Odin and Behemoth don't even count towards my topic, since they are fates and only pop once every few days. They are also not hard fights. The hardest thing about those fights is seeing them and your party memebers. It would also give doing beastman quest more challenge.


Sorry about that, your original post did not mention that the "open world" mobs you spoke of were of the "trash" variety. FATE mobs are not trash mobs, but are definitely in the open world.

Also, Odin and Behemoth are not considered hard by folks like yourself because two hundred people are in there hitting them each time they pop. I fought Odin a week ago on Lamia server, at 3 in the morning. There were fifteen people there. The battle was very hard and we timed out.

Edited, Jan 30th 2014 4:12pm by Valkayree
#15 Jan 30 2014 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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EvilMadMike1982 wrote:
I did say i don't think they should drop the same exp like dungeon mobs, so the whole power leveling concept doesn't even need to be talked about. What do fate NMs have to do with open world trash mobs. I hate fates and always will hate fates. All I was saying was to make some of the higher lvl mobs, like the ones found in the slyphlands and other areas where 46 and up mobs walk around is to be somewhat more difficult. I shouldn't be able to hand four lvl 49 mobs on my SCH with ease. You can leave the other areas alone if that's what people are worried about. I should need gear on when fighting these mobs instead of rolling in swimwear. Odin and Behemoth don't even count towards my topic, since they are fates and only pop once every few days. They are also not hard fights. The hardest thing about those fights is seeing them and your party memebers. It would also give doing beastman quest more challenge.


"I want hard mobs because yes." isn't a compelling reason.
#16 Jan 30 2014 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm actually kind of glad this is one area that is critically different from FFXI.

Four Even Match mobs in XI would kill you in about thirty seconds. Even four "Easy Prey" mobs could give you some trouble if you were level 99 and they were level 90.

The only job that had a prayer in those circumstances was black mage, since they could Sleepga II the mobs and then pick them off one at a time with sleeps and stuns in between.
#17 Jan 30 2014 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Because FFXIV lets you go after mobs someone else has claimed, it would also open up new avenues of MPK. You could drag a level 49 mob to low level areas and look for places where people frequently use AoE (a site of a quest, for example) and just sneak up behind them until they get your "present" on their hate list.


I've never tried it, but I didn't realize that it was possible to train mobs from one area to another. I assumed leashing mechanics(mob drops aggro or despawns when taken outside a certain radius of it's spawn) were already in place. This statement already applies to XIV even without difficult world mobs so that issue needs to be addressed anyway.


FFXIV does have a leash on the mobs where at the end of the leash they drop aggro and run back while being invulnerable until they return. There are level 45+ mobs REALLY close to level 20ish mobs in several areas though.

I don't know if I'm replying correctly... I keep re-reading your post lol...


I was basically curious if it was even possible to drag a mob across a zone without it leashing back. Based on what you've said, they already have the mechanic in the game that would keep players from taking high level mobs to lower level areas. All they would have to do is make sure the leash radius didn't overlap the areas with low level mobs.

I think that removes any MPK shenanigans from being a threat.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#18 Jan 30 2014 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
What you're more likely to find is that these mobs will never be killed outside of possible quest requirements.

Ignoring XI for a moment, I think back to Aion and how they had literal sections of zones stocked with nothing but what we could call dungeon/elite mobs here. The only ones that ever got killed were tied to repeatable, albeit grindy quests that rewarded decent gear for its level. And this only happened in the early 30s and then at the, then cap 50, for the miragent set at the weapon phase. Very rarely would one see people just killing these mobs for the hell of it. Even when I soloed Kratia with my cleric, it was rarely I actually engaged the surrounding mobs, instead favoring pulling her to a safe spot near a waterfall.

That said, I'm not outright against more powerful mobs in the open world, but I'd very much like to see it reflective of a more dynamic system, which would also require new zones built with such in mind. We need FATEs where the objective is to attack/defend a point, as an example, where the outcome results in modifying the strength of related mobs and influencing which FATEs spawn after. Give players access to good things if these mobs are suppressed to their weakest state, but at the same time, you need to make them worth killing when they aren't without completely encouraging people to never weaken them. Basically, this would be a good spot to slip in meaningful acquisition rates for the current top tier of tomes based on its relative level. And I'm not just talking like 5 per hour, but literally comparable to dungeons.

Although grinding monsters is not the popular way to level in modern mmos. It was a part of XI and while this game shouldn't be XI-2, that doesn't mean there is no desire for some form of that in XIV from previous players who played XI. I feel to avoid the power level or negating quest leveling in the off chance grinding monsters is faster xp than quest grinding. They should just take the concept of some of XI events and make them work in this game, and not to farm tomes. Things like Nyzule, assault, abyssea(minus overpowered buffs), limbus,salvage,etc. To make it work it would have to have a definite time limit and some form of small cooldown to keep other content relevant.

Back in the pre original launch era. I proposed an idea for something I called journey leves. It was built around the idea of banding together to travel to a distant land. The idea was there would be elements of roleplaying such as gathering firewood, food,shelter materials, etc because the journey would be so long(spanning multiple real life days). At certain intervals when the party was exhausted, dehydrated,hungered,etc. They would need to build a campsite. Also while traveling they would have to navigate by using the sun and the stars in the sky. The campsites would serve as waypoints/savepoints that a group could return to a continue point on another real life day to resume the journey. I got the idea from Breath Of Fire 3 and the ice mountain in FFVII. Just massive zones similar in size to beaucedine glacier and xarcabard combined, and even bigger. Of course to make a journey take real life days, creating a zone of that size would be ridiculous. So they would need some sort of phasing that randomizes the zones or something.

Anyways that was dream I had. I could so see questing AF 3 or weapons in a zone like that..
#19 Jan 31 2014 at 7:52 AM Rating: Excellent
So.... FFXIV Oregon Trail?
#20 Jan 31 2014 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Xoie wrote:
Because FFXIV lets you go after mobs someone else has claimed, it would also open up new avenues of MPK. You could drag a level 49 mob to low level areas and look for places where people frequently use AoE (a site of a quest, for example) and just sneak up behind them until they get your "present" on their hate list.


I've never tried it, but I didn't realize that it was possible to train mobs from one area to another. I assumed leashing mechanics(mob drops aggro or despawns when taken outside a certain radius of it's spawn) were already in place. This statement already applies to XIV even without difficult world mobs so that issue needs to be addressed anyway.


FFXIV does have a leash on the mobs where at the end of the leash they drop aggro and run back while being invulnerable until they return. There are level 45+ mobs REALLY close to level 20ish mobs in several areas though.

I don't know if I'm replying correctly... I keep re-reading your post lol...


I was basically curious if it was even possible to drag a mob across a zone without it leashing back. Based on what you've said, they already have the mechanic in the game that would keep players from taking high level mobs to lower level areas. All they would have to do is make sure the leash radius didn't overlap the areas with low level mobs.

I think that removes any MPK shenanigans from being a threat.


The only time it becomes an issue is if what you're doing is near a FATE. A player can drag the FATE mobs to one side of the blue ring and if you're inside it when they get far enough away, the giant train of mobs will aggro you instead. But yeah, MPK'ing is pretty much a non-issue here otherwise.
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