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Losing passion for MMO'sFollow

#1 Jan 26 2014 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
Maybe I am just getting older and my time has become more precious, or maybe it's just the nature of the modern MMO, but recently I have really started to lose my passion for MMO's. In the glory days of FFXI, I loved the game for its vibrant world that felt alive. It was a world that I simply wanted to log into and exist in. It wasn't so much about what I was doing in game, but more so just being a part of the world and existing in the environment. In modern MMO's such as FFXIV, the environments can look breathtaking, but at the same time feel devoid of life. FFXIV is seemingly turning into an incredibly large and beautiful instance lobby server. As if the entire world is just a waiting ground for the next que to pop.

I am also growing tired of the “daily“ system of modern MMO's. While their design is intended to help more causal players keep up with the hardcore players, for me, it makes the game feel like a job. I feel like I have to log in each day and do x,y, and z, otherwise I lose the opportunity to stay on pace with other players. Having such restrictions placed on my free time and how I want to play the game is stressful and just takes the fun out of the game. I do have the awareness to realize that much of this issue lies with how I am mentally approaching the game, but in my experience falling too far behind the community at large extremely limits what you are able to participate with in game.

I logged in just once last week, and when I logged in I immediately qued for the high level DR. Pharos Sirius popped four times in a row. The first three times everyone dropped from the party immediately, without so much as a hello, as soon as they saw what instance popped. The 4th group decided to stick it out, but had a BRD that was a first-timer and was having a hell of a time with the instance. We did our best to help him along and teach him all of the fights, but he just wasn't up to the task on Siren. We eventually timed out on Siren, and then I just sat there and realized that I had wasted 2 hours of my life and accomplished absolutely nothing. I didn't even enjoying running the instance. I was just doing it because I had to earn tomes. It was like work.

I would love to feel differently and hope that someone is able to set me straight here, but I feel my passion for this game and for MMO's in general fading fast. Without the feeling of immersion in the world and story, the game has no meaning. I just processed my preorder for Lightning Returns and am hopeful it will serve as a nice respite from FFXIV.

Edited, Jan 26th 2014 10:57pm by DrCapricious
#2 Jan 27 2014 at 12:03 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with a lot of this. Part of it is we're getting older. But modern MMO is not like FFXI. Some of that is good, some of it is bad. I don't like the daily grind either. I'd rather not feel like I have to log in every day. There is a part of me that wanted to rid myself of MMO's. I miss the old command and conquer days. Log in, play a few matches, and log off. MMO's are designed to keep us coming back. They seem to succeed at that.

FFXIV is fun. I don't mind failed runs. It happens. I had a bad day a few weeks ago, numerous failed runs/time outs. Think I got 30 myth in 4 hours. Losing sucks, but I still enjoy the content, so if I walk away empty handed, oh well.

The elitism is what really drives me away from the game. Look in party finder and see stuff like "1 fail = kick" "Die before phase x = kick" It's dumb. We're all human, no one is perfect. Everyone dodges the wrong way or hit's the wrong button and one point or another. Peyton Manning doesn't complete every pass, Lebron James doesn't make every shot. It'd be nice if the community realized you are not going to win 100% of the time. It would make MMO's more fun and feel like less of a job.
#3 Jan 27 2014 at 2:08 AM Rating: Good
Totally agree about the elitism, but I think the brand of elitism in FFXIV has a lot to do with how progression is structured in the game. Everything is based around time and efficiency, thus to meet their weekly quotas in a variety of areas, players seek out the easiest/most efficient routes. This breeds an inherent lack of tolerance in many of the more skilled players in the game and makes everything feel like a mad zerg rush. There is no sense of natural exploration or incentive to “help your fellow man“. In Eorzea, we live in such an instanced community, that we rarely interact with people on our own servers. We have little incentive to develop a positive reputation amongst those we are living with in game.

In FFXI there was a tremendous sense of community. People helped each other out all the time. It was a game where reputation mattered a lot. Of course FFXI also had it frustrating points, but the world itself felt so much more immersive than Eorzea does in its current form. Everything had to be done together and nearly everything took place inside of the world itself. That is what made it feel alive. I had such a strong connection to Vana'Diel. It was a place that I cared about and wanted to be. It's frustrating that I have not been able to gain the same connection with Eorzea.

I think modern day MMO's moves towards ultra efficiency are killing world immersion and the connection that players have with said world. Everything is instanced, we automatically teleport everywhere we need to go, and players want instant gratification without having to work for anything or help anyone else long the way. MMO's are about community, world immersion, and the social experience. If we take those away, we may as well just play console games.
#4 Jan 27 2014 at 3:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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I say it a lot, but I am eagerly awaiting a MMO dev courageous enough to break away from the broken systems the notion of dungeon/raiding superiority establishes. When, by default, certain aspects of a game are inferior options, they inevitably breed contempt from both the people who can't climb that mountain and from those ruling on high about how others can't meet their standards. Or course, part of this is me just getting older, myself, and not really favoring the notion of some uppity teen trying to boss me around or simply assume they know me better than I know myself and my preferences. Generally speaking, a required abundance of free time will most definitely favor those 21 or younger.

Of course, I'm also sick of time restricted content, both in access and within events themselves. The former faces the issue of "punching a clock" as it might be called when referenced to a job, where missing a day/week/whatever results in totally missed opportunity. The usual counter for these involves either intentionally giving the devs more time to make new things or to deliberately stymie the progress of a very minority hardcore base who wouldn't want to play with us plebeians, anyway. To the first, I'd feel inclined to analyze how a dev is making their money. I know some swear up and down that F2P is the devil, but monthly subs do feed atrociously into the time restriction metric. "Gotta get my money's worth!" as it were, even if the process isn't all that fun. On the other end, a good F2P model lets people come and go as they please. And without restrictive lockouts, can also progress as they're able. Whatever sense of obligation one would encounter is more likely to be a social one. But if content is fun and rewarding, you can bet people will stick around longer for friends even if personal gain is minimal. As for the second issue, well, my thought is people just need to mind their own business. As long as their progress literally doesn't keep you from making your own, some dude playing 3 days straight on a diet of doritos and dew really doesn't matter. This also evokes a personal sense of responsibility where if you're someone dumping unreasonable amounts of time on a game daily, you're really not in much of a position to be claiming there's nothing to do or that things are too easy to get.

Anyway, where to go from here would generally depend on the type of game you'd wanna shoot for. More dynamic open worlds are something I crave with a side of allowing players to generate content for their peers to tackle. I'd also outright eliminate "finished drops" from mobs or chests, instead emphasizing material gathering and crafting for the desired finished products. What equipment you would find from vendors would ultimately be the most basic of basic **** to get people going in a particular direction. And of course, I'd favor the "do everything on one character if you put the work in" aspect instead of demanding oodles of alts or "harsh choices" that mean picking one means never getting the other. Sometimes people make mistakes or change their mind. No need to be so draconian about it.

I also feel these games really need an innovation on how we interface. I'll be one of those people that says keyboard/mouse is clunky when it comes to faster paced, high ability use combat without intelligent macro systems in place. I don't expect VR, much as I'd enjoy something like .hack or SAO, minus the whole "getting stuck in the game" bit, but if thought reading is ever a thing for gaming... mmm, yummy. But I'll shut up for now since I feel more like I'm rambling.
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#5 Jan 27 2014 at 4:10 AM Rating: Decent
All these mmo developers can't see past WoW, they all copy WoW and wonder why players get bored.

Even my old favourite MMO is turning into WoW, FFXI isn't FFXI anymore.

For me I'm looking forward to Everquest Next, it's trying to invigorate the genre and I really hope they manage to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFSVlwg1Pt8
#6 Jan 27 2014 at 4:14 AM Rating: Decent
For devs to break away from the "broken systems" somebody has to actually provide a better alternative.

It's just like in real life and Capitalism. Oh no it has so many problems, don't you see the people suffering! But if you can't think up anything better pointing out the problems of capitalism over and over again is useless.

The biggest fallacy is when people come up with an idea and think it is problem-free or assume that the old ways were problem-free. That they are not "broken" in any way. The universe has yet to see such phenomenon take place but one can always hope (and be disappointed).

Edited, Jan 27th 2014 1:15pm by Hyanmen
#7 Jan 27 2014 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
I am going to have to disagree with XIV being lifeless. This is especially true with the seasonal events. So there's this trio of pirate girls, sitting on the sidewalk all gangster like in Limsa Lominsa. During the Christmas event, they kept the same poses, but the devs stuck a Christmas cake in the middle of them. When I saw that I laughed for a full minute.

There are a lot of NPCs who are unnamed but who have dialog you can overhear. I'm hoping that dialog might change in the future, but right now it's just fun to run up to someone and see if you can eavesdrop.

It all boils down to who your friends are and how they play. Last night I spent some quality time with a real life friend in my free company - we unlocked Crystal Tower together. The quest was annoying and long and boring but it was a lot more bearable with a friend, and when we finally unlocked CT access it felt kind of awesome. A lot like finally unlocking {sky} did in XI. Honestly, that was the first time I'd re-captured that XI "heck yeah we did it" feeling.

These days XI has turned into "kill the same SCNM mob set 6 times in a row. " Smiley: frown
#8 Jan 27 2014 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I am going to have to disagree with XIV being lifeless. This is especially true with the seasonal events. So there's this trio of pirate girls, sitting on the sidewalk all gangster like in Limsa Lominsa. During the Christmas event, they kept the same poses, but the devs stuck a Christmas cake in the middle of them. When I saw that I laughed for a full minute.

There are a lot of NPCs who are unnamed but who have dialog you can overhear. I'm hoping that dialog might change in the future, but right now it's just fun to run up to someone and see if you can eavesdrop.

It all boils down to who your friends are and how they play. Last night I spent some quality time with a real life friend in my free company - we unlocked Crystal Tower together. The quest was annoying and long and boring but it was a lot more bearable with a friend, and when we finally unlocked CT access it felt kind of awesome. A lot like finally unlocking {sky} did in XI. Honestly, that was the first time I'd re-captured that XI "heck yeah we did it" feeling.

These days XI has turned into "kill the same SCNM mob set 6 times in a row. " Smiley: frown


Clearing Titan HM the first time gave me this feeling...

We also had a very (not sure why though) challenging Turn 1 run the other night. After some last minute heroics by we downed him after about 2 hours of attempts. There was much jubilation afterward in vent. So much in fact we cleared Turn 2 on the first try and breezed through turn 3.

There are definitely fist pump worthy activities in the game.

As far as nothing to do...I don't experience that because I'm not on for multiple hours every day. I haven't even unlocked the beast tribe quests yet ><
#9 Jan 27 2014 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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DrCapricious wrote:

"Maybe I am just getting older and my time has become more precious, or maybe it's just the nature of the modern MMO, but recently I have really started to lose my passion for MMO's. In the glory days of FFXI, I loved the game for its vibrant world that felt alive. It was a world that I simply wanted to log into and exist in. It wasn't so much about what I was doing in game, but more so just being a part of the world and existing in the environment."

"We eventually timed out on Siren, and then I just sat there and realized that I had wasted 2 hours of my life and accomplished absolutely nothing. I didn't even enjoying running the instance. I was just doing it because I had to earn tomes. It was like work."


It would serve well for you to recall that in FFXI it would take two hours to walk from Windhirst to Valkurn Dunes, wait for the ferry, cross, and walk to the nearest major city. Part of what made the world feel "alive" is the travelling time sink, which I for one, do not miss.
#10 Jan 27 2014 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:

It all boils down to who your friends are and how they play. Last night I spent some quality time with a real life friend in my free company - we unlocked Crystal Tower together. The quest was annoying and long and boring but it was a lot more bearable with a friend, and when we finally unlocked CT access it felt kind of awesome. A lot like finally unlocking {sky} did in XI. Honestly, that was the first time I'd re-captured that XI "heck yeah we did it" feeling.
These days XI has turned into "kill the same SCNM mob set 6 times in a row. "


I soloed the fates to get CT access. Easy sauce. In contrast, I remember in FFXI getting sea access to be one of the most painful mmo experiences I've ever had, right up there with my quests to beat titan hm and titan ex. While I do not mean to diminish the importance of your accomplishment... maybe FFXI was just much more difficult for me.
#11 Jan 27 2014 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
I know some swear up and down that F2P is the devil, but monthly subs do feed atrociously into the time restriction metric.


And F2P also means that Justin Beiber can hop on first day and be a level 300 war-idiot. At least I feel like the Allagan on my back was a well earned accomplishment.
#12 Jan 27 2014 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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It's pretty much a given that the majority of players in XIV spent a great deal of time playing XI. But sometimes we forget that XI was in an era where MMOs were about its server community not its ease of access. There was separation between the players but there was also the "Hey I know that guy is an awesome (Insert Class Here) let's get him!" when it came to knowing who the good players were. Requiring a party for everything and as Valkayree said the time sinks required to navigate across the maps is what made the community feel tighter and the world so immersive.

There are some people who are complaining about instanced content. Well..I know all of the XI players can remember finally getting that six person party and heading to their level appropriate zone only to find all the camp spots have been taken. While instanced content does remove the aforementioned sense of community it also avoids the aggravation of having to possibly move several zones or wait for a camp spot to open to progress. I do agree however that when using the Duty Finder that it should pick from other available players on your server first OR should allow cross-realm Friends List similar to what WoW does.

MMOs have changed and they have changed for the better overall. Just like most WoW players will say that The Burning Crusade was the best expansion ever. But in the overall systems like how XI was originally or how WoW was during BC prevented many people from experiencing the full game. Now I believe that people should be working to access parts of the game and not just have everything left open from the first log in. Long time MMO Players sometimes feel as if making a game more accessible takes away from their own achievements in a game, but in reality is simply opening the doors to adding a few more skilled players into the mix.

TLDR: MMOs have made a change for the better. It's the rose colored glasses and nostalgia for the way XI used to be that blinds many of us to the potential of XIV and other future MMOs.
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#13 Jan 27 2014 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
Valkayree wrote:
Catwho wrote:

It all boils down to who your friends are and how they play. Last night I spent some quality time with a real life friend in my free company - we unlocked Crystal Tower together. The quest was annoying and long and boring but it was a lot more bearable with a friend, and when we finally unlocked CT access it felt kind of awesome. A lot like finally unlocking {sky} did in XI. Honestly, that was the first time I'd re-captured that XI "heck yeah we did it" feeling.
These days XI has turned into "kill the same SCNM mob set 6 times in a row. "


I soloed the fates to get CT access. Easy sauce. In contrast, I remember in FFXI getting sea access to be one of the most painful mmo experiences I've ever had, right up there with my quests to beat titan hm and titan ex. While I do not mean to diminish the importance of your accomplishment... maybe FFXI was just much more difficult for me.


I tried soloing the fates as white mage. Smiley: lol It just wasn't happening in Sapsa (too many adds), and then it took three of us to get the dude down in Coerthas.
#14 Jan 27 2014 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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DrCapricious wrote:
Totally agree about the elitism, but I think the brand of elitism in FFXIV has a lot to do with how progression is structured in the game. Everything is based around time and efficiency, thus to meet their weekly quotas in a variety of areas, players seek out the easiest/most efficient routes. This breeds an inherent lack of tolerance in many of the more skilled players in the game and makes everything feel like a mad zerg rush. There is no sense of natural exploration or incentive to “help your fellow man“. In Eorzea, we live in such an instanced community, that we rarely interact with people on our own servers. We have little incentive to develop a positive reputation amongst those we are living with in game.

In FFXI there was a tremendous sense of community. People helped each other out all the time. It was a game where reputation mattered a lot. Of course FFXI also had it frustrating points, but the world itself felt so much more immersive than Eorzea does in its current form. Everything had to be done together and nearly everything took place inside of the world itself. That is what made it feel alive. I had such a strong connection to Vana'Diel. It was a place that I cared about and wanted to be. It's frustrating that I have not been able to gain the same connection with Eorzea.

I think modern day MMO's moves towards ultra efficiency are killing world immersion and the connection that players have with said world. Everything is instanced, we automatically teleport everywhere we need to go, and players want instant gratification without having to work for anything or help anyone else long the way. MMO's are about community, world immersion, and the social experience. If we take those away, we may as well just play console games.


I agree with this.


Valkayree wrote:


It would serve well for you to recall that in FFXI it would take two hours to walk from Windhirst to Valkurn Dunes, wait for the ferry, cross, and walk to the nearest major city. Part of what made the world feel "alive" is the travelling time sink, which I for one, do not miss.



I agree with this too, but I didn't mind it... I miss the airship ride or the boat ride so I could fish.. I miss the ship being attacked it was such a random event. I miss taking in the scenery.




I also think it has nothing to do with age..

These instances through DF where no one knows anyone , not even a FC tag makes people think they can say and do anything.. DF is the real problem with this game at end game...

The other issue is the market.. Crafting is fun but it feels hollow when you are not doing it as a job to make money. I hated crafting in FFXI but I always felt like I was doing it for some reason and accomplishment....


I got to say there is allot of these threads lately and not of god I love this game... It is weird.. I was really disappointed in the whole live letter again which I was excited about, not much we didn't know and allot of dodging the real questions and not allot of wows... I am worried they dont have much figured out beyond the launch of this game. There wasn't much to address the markets situation.. The game has so much potential though..


Edited, Jan 27th 2014 10:27am by Nashred

Edited, Jan 27th 2014 10:49am by Nashred
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#15 Jan 27 2014 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Valkayree wrote:
Catwho wrote:

It all boils down to who your friends are and how they play. Last night I spent some quality time with a real life friend in my free company - we unlocked Crystal Tower together. The quest was annoying and long and boring but it was a lot more bearable with a friend, and when we finally unlocked CT access it felt kind of awesome. A lot like finally unlocking {sky} did in XI. Honestly, that was the first time I'd re-captured that XI "heck yeah we did it" feeling.
These days XI has turned into "kill the same SCNM mob set 6 times in a row. "


I soloed the fates to get CT access. Easy sauce. In contrast, I remember in FFXI getting sea access to be one of the most painful mmo experiences I've ever had, right up there with my quests to beat titan hm and titan ex. While I do not mean to diminish the importance of your accomplishment... maybe FFXI was just much more difficult for me.


I tried soloing the fates as white mage. Smiley: lol It just wasn't happening in Sapsa (too many adds), and then it took three of us to get the dude down in Coerthas.


Oh crap, whm, ic now, sorry bout that. Smiley: tongue
#16 Jan 27 2014 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Valkayree wrote:
Seriha wrote:
I know some swear up and down that F2P is the devil, but monthly subs do feed atrociously into the time restriction metric.


And F2P also means that Justin Beiber can hop on first day and be a level 300 war-idiot. At least I feel like the Allagan on my back was a well earned accomplishment.

Please do not confuse free-to-play with pay-to-win. I know that's all too common when this subject rears its head, but I'm most certainly not yearning for games where those with the biggest wallets win. If anything, it's more of a wanting those with the biggest brains.

Quote:
TLDR: MMOs have made a change for the better. It's the rose colored glasses and nostalgia for the way XI used to be that blinds many of us to the potential of XIV and other future MMOs.

Funnily enough, sometimes I feel like it's XI's @#%^ ups that have roused me into yearning for certain things. Yeah, I can look back to the game with the occasional fond memory, but I've also been willing to let it go and acknowledge its faults, even if occasionally with a certain degree of **** and vinegar.

But ultimately, it's the bad in the various gaming communities I've floated around to that inspire that sense of "NEVER AGAIN!" in either outright avoiding certain games or hoping those mistakes are learned from and addressed.

Edited, Jan 27th 2014 10:40am by Seriha
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#17 Jan 27 2014 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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FFXIV biggest mistake was letting people continue from what they had back in 1.0

This caused a lot of stuff they could (should) have changed to remain the same. Leveling shouldnt have been made this easy as well, and most likely only became like this due to people already having several 50's and people needing to catch up. The thing that still shocks me the most is that you can get your Relic, which would be the equivalent to your ultimate near-forever weapon, pretty much right when you freshly ding level 50.

There's not enough items around to farm, not enough recipes around for things to make, not enough value to gil, not enough alternatives as far as gear goes.

All they really did was cut the world up into smaller pieces, made everything a cake-walk, removed most of the content they had before and designed the entire game towards making people enjoy their first month of gaming as much as possible. Which is great, dont get me wrong, but then what? What happens after a month when you've pretty much let everyone get and do whatever they wanted, basicly handing them everything they could have wanted for free with zero effort?

I've played a lot of MMO's in my days. Linear paths with silver-platter rewards just dont work out for longetivity.

I played Ragnarok for the longest time, the graphics werent too good, but the atmosphere was great. Just about everything was a consumable so there was always a demand for people making things. The world was immense and lots of fun to explore, and leveling was incredibly slow. Developers these days simply dont understand that is a very good thing.

Atleast 11 years of FFXI under my belt. Took me a good year before i got anywhere in that game, but it made me want to login and play. The barriers that kept you from things werent bad since there were many alternatives.

Even World of Warcraft, while disliking everything it has to do with PVP, i enjoyed the game. Huge world to explore and fight things in, random drops and rewards, making you want to try and get something decent out of it to have or to sell, hundreds of alternatives and all in all fun. I never even talked to people, just solo'd most of the way.

Now in FFXIV, and dont get me wrong i like the game, i log in on Monday, get my Myths done for the week, maybe get a drop from CT during that even though nothing is an upgrade for me anymore on any of my jobs. Maybe shout if anyone needs a meld since i have all crafters at 50... And that's it. I basicly dont log in for the rest of the week following that.

It doesnt grasp me. It doesnt make me want to do things. It doesnt have any alternative things to do just for fun. And leveling? It's not even fun. I look towards the two days it would take to get another job to 50 as a chore. It makes me not want to do it. While before i would have happily invested 8-10 months to taking a job in FFXI to 75. It's rediculous.
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#18 Jan 27 2014 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
FFXIV biggest mistake was letting people continue from what they had back in 1.0

This caused a lot of stuff they could (should) have changed to remain the same. Leveling shouldnt have been made this easy as well, and most likely only became like this due to people already having several 50's and people needing to catch up. The thing that still shocks me the most is that you can get your Relic, which would be the equivalent to your ultimate near-forever weapon, pretty much right when you freshly ding level 50.

There's not enough items around to farm, not enough recipes around for things to make, not enough value to gil, not enough alternatives as far as gear goes.

All they really did was cut the world up into smaller pieces, made everything a cake-walk, removed most of the content they had before and designed the entire game towards making people enjoy their first month of gaming as much as possible. Which is great, dont get me wrong, but then what? What happens after a month when you've pretty much let everyone get and do whatever they wanted, basicly handing them everything they could have wanted for free with zero effort?

I've played a lot of MMO's in my days. Linear paths with silver-platter rewards just dont work out for longetivity.

I played Ragnarok for the longest time, the graphics werent too good, but the atmosphere was great. Just about everything was a consumable so there was always a demand for people making things. The world was immense and lots of fun to explore, and leveling was incredibly slow. Developers these days simply dont understand that is a very good thing.

Atleast 11 years of FFXI under my belt. Took me a good year before i got anywhere in that game, but it made me want to login and play. The barriers that kept you from things werent bad since there were many alternatives.

Even World of Warcraft, while disliking everything it has to do with PVP, i enjoyed the game. Huge world to explore and fight things in, random drops and rewards, making you want to try and get something decent out of it to have or to sell, hundreds of alternatives and all in all fun. I never even talked to people, just solo'd most of the way.

Now in FFXIV, and dont get me wrong i like the game, i log in on Monday, get my Myths done for the week, maybe get a drop from CT during that even though nothing is an upgrade for me anymore on any of my jobs. Maybe shout if anyone needs a meld since i have all crafters at 50... And that's it. I basicly dont log in for the rest of the week following that.

It doesnt grasp me. It doesnt make me want to do things. It doesnt have any alternative things to do just for fun. And leveling? It's not even fun. I look towards the two days it would take to get another job to 50 as a chore. It makes me not want to do it. While before i would have happily invested 8-10 months to taking a job in FFXI to 75. It's rediculous.


It's 'funny' to me how completely opposite two perspectives can be. I just got my relic a few weeks ago...I've only done BC twice... I only have 1 DoW/DoM at 50..I have so much I want to do that I can't possibly get it all done. I only play for at most 3 hours on weekdays and 5 or 6 on weekends.

The only gripe I can get behind right now is the market and crafting issue. It's obvious how this stuff is not doing well. In my >opinion< though I think a lot of the negative feelings right now are burnout/boredom from rush rush rush...

#19 Jan 27 2014 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
It's 'funny' to me how completely opposite two perspectives can be. I just got my relic a few weeks ago...I've only done BC twice... I only have 1 DoW/DoM at 50..I have so much I want to do that I can't possibly get it all done. I only play for at most 3 hours on weekdays and 5 or 6 on weekends.

The only gripe I can get behind right now is the market and crafting issue. It's obvious how this stuff is not doing well. In my >opinion< though I think a lot of the negative feelings right now are burnout/boredom from rush rush rush...


Agreed.

A lot of angst over MMOs is self-inflicted, and honestly, games like FFXI didn't help. Those games trained players to keep their nose to the grindstone nonstop not because it was fun, but because getting anything done took so long and required so much luck. If you weren't spending six hours a day camping one drop, then the chances of you getting it were even less existent than they already were.

Also, the relic weapon in its i90 form won't be the forever weapon of XIV. They may allow us to upgrade our relics, but doing so will always require work and difficult fights. In fact, there will never be a "forever" -anything- in FFXIV... just not the way this game is designed.

As for the market, I think making housing more accessible is the silver bullet. I was in the housing ward near Ul'dah yesterday, and was sad by how empty it was. I feel like SE made those areas for players to congregate and hang out, but right now, they're completely empty. Keep dropping those prices and adding benefits/accessories for housing, and soon players will have lots of things to spend money on. Of course, the real improvements may not come until the expansion, when the level cap is raised... I am hoping that ARR goes the path of XI, where you can only take one craft to max level.
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#20 Jan 27 2014 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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An MMO is a hamster wheel you rent for awhile.

Once you realize that, then you won't be so resentful when you realize you're really not getting anywhere when you use it. Smiley: lol
#21 Jan 27 2014 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
In my >opinion< though I think a lot of the negative feelings right now are burnout/boredom from rush rush rush...

Agreed. If someone spends all night monday maxing everything for the week and gets bored, that's not SE's fault.
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#22 Jan 27 2014 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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No game will ever replicate your MMO experiences of years passed.
Either the player changes as they grow and the game(s) don't. Or the game changes and the player doesn't. Or both change and are no longer as compatible as they once were. There's nothing to say that the person you are today will enjoy FFXI today, assuming you start from scratch, being that you may be more constricted by time than you were a few years ago due to work, family, kids, etc.. And if you are more limited by time, you may not get a chance to to get to know the community as well you would like.

In my opinion it's much like a relationship. What you had in high school is not what you had in college and not what you will have/have/had after you've graduated and moved on in life. One experience is not better or worse than another, it's just different.

#23 Jan 27 2014 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Karlina wrote:
Agreed. If someone spends all night monday maxing everything for the week and gets bored, that's not SE's fault.


I don't know, if a person can do everything there is to do to progress in 4-6 hours a week then that is SE's fault. It is a little better in 2.1 now since in addition to coil and tome reset there are now primal extremes and crystal tower to complete weekly. I'm not saying there isn't more to do but progression for 1 or 2 jobs is the only thing that matters for many people. Now that my FC bought their house I have a feeling that the list of logged in members is going to drop drastically again since the working for Gil is done.
#24 Jan 27 2014 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know, if a person can do everything there is to do to progress in 4-6 hours a week then that is SE's fault.


That's the thing, though... MMOs are (or should be) about more than individual progress.

Even if you can finish everything you want to do for yourself in less than six hours, there are still so many people who need help with different things. Or, you can set up FC events just for the fun of being social with your online mates. In my FC, we've recently started "Map Madness Monday." It's our night of people grabbing maps, and a whole herd of us doing the fights. It's nothing that really helps us in any real way, especially given how crappy the economy is... but we just have fun doing it. Stuff like that will continue to be fun as long as we remember -why- it is we're playing.

If everyone in your FC literally has everything finished... all jobs capped, obscene amounts of gil, etc... perhaps you could break ground by starting a service to help other people with new content? Be the first FC to stand in Mor Dhona and lead "instructional" parties through BC, rather than only shouting for people who already know the fights. Become known as being the good, helpful FC that everyone wants to join. Why not? Sounds like you guys have plenty of time to do cool stuff like that.

I'm just saying, an MMO is what you make of it. People who just rush, rush, rush to fulfill their individual caps will feel very unfulfilled. Those who take their time and play the game within the game will have far more rewarding experiences.
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#25 Jan 27 2014 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with you on all points, except the one about elitism. I wont deny that yes, it is a problem but the question you should be asking is WHY this is happening.

When someone is making a run with "will kick for mistakes" they arent expecting someone to flawlessly beat every run (however yes some do). They are expecting everyone in the run to KNOW what to do. I dont think this is unreasonable when someone is making a run to farm. The point of farming is to farm, not to teach. People dont seem to understand this and join without knowlege of the fights anyway. If those people wouldnt be so selfish to use 7 other peoples time to learn, maybe this elitism wouldnt be so much of a problem.

Now dont get me wrong, people do need to practice...but joining runs that clearly arent for learning and expect people to teach you what to do? Thats just wrong. At that point you shouldnt be surprised if your're getting ******* at. I try to teach people what to do when i can but ONLY if what im doing is casual such as a duty finder run. If im joining garuda extreme to farm, thats exactly what im expecting to do. The whole purpose of the party finder was to match people based on the goals in mind. I see learning runs for various things all the time. If there isnt one make one. Just dont join runs where your expected to know the content if you dont. Theres always an option to learn how to do things. Work on being self sufficient, use the duty finder, and use the party finder to make learning runs.
#26 Jan 27 2014 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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Yelta wrote:
Karlina wrote:
Agreed. If someone spends all night monday maxing everything for the week and gets bored, that's not SE's fault.


I don't know, if a person can do everything there is to do to progress in 4-6 hours a week then that is SE's fault. It is a little better in 2.1 now since in addition to coil and tome reset there are now primal extremes and crystal tower to complete weekly. I'm not saying there isn't more to do but progression for 1 or 2 jobs is the only thing that matters for many people. Now that my FC bought their house I have a feeling that the list of logged in members is going to drop drastically again since the working for Gil is done.


And there in lies the rub... it's not that there isn't plenty more to do, it's that some people choose not to take advantage of what is there.

I keep coming back to the value aspect of things as it makes the most sense to me. For $60 you can get a 'typical' game that will last maybe 40 hours if it's an RPG, more like 10 for anything else, if you're lucky. And those 10 hours in the 'campaing' are coupled with endless online content. So you get what... 6 maps with 3 types of matches... that's it...

Now, for an MMO, you pay $60 up front and $12-$15 a month... and what do you get? Hundreds and hundreds of hours of content right out of the box. Not only that, the developer will keep giving you content, most of it for just that $12-$15 a month plus $30 or so for an expansion every couple years.

So, let's compare all that to other types of entertainment you might engage in. I'll use my own tastes as an example.
Movies for two: $25 at the matinee, almost $40 if it's IMAX 3D - lasts 2 or 3 hours.
Books: Depending on what you buy, $5-$30, lasts a week or so.
Dinner out: $50-$100, lasts an hour.
Go Karting: $20 or $30 lasts a couple hours.

So, the return on your entertainment dollar is staggering for an MMO. I think what most people don't consider is that an MMO isn't meant to be the 'one thing' you do. Sure, I game a lot, but I don't expect an MMO to occupy every second of my free time. If there are people who play 4-6 hours a week and do everything they want, then that's fine. That's their choice. I just don't think you can't blame SE for someone's disappointment when they're putting tons of stuff in the game but the people complaining aren't doing a large percentage of it. If you -choose- not to engage in it, then you are choosing not to get the most out of it.
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