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#1 Jan 13 2014 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
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why is it in FFXIV you could get multiple jobs to 50 and not even be able to name 10 people on our server. Whereas in lets say FFXI. by the time you hit 75 (when it was the cap) you knew EVERY other 75 on your server? I mean even people i saw shouting in Jeuno if i had never personally met them (in game) i still recognized/knew them by the ls they belong too by reputation (be it good or bad).. what is FFXIV missing that it doesnt have that same "experience" (couldnt think of a better word)?
#2 Jan 13 2014 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
why is it in FFXIV you could get multiple jobs to 50 and not even be able to name 10 people on our server. Whereas in lets say FFXI. by the time you hit 75 (when it was the cap) you knew EVERY other 75 on your server? I mean even people i saw shouting in Jeuno if i had never personally met them (in game) i still recognized/knew them by the ls they belong too by reputation (be it good or bad).. what is FFXIV missing that it doesnt have that same "experience" (couldnt think of a better word)?


When I started FFXI I was on the XBOX. So literally 75% of the population had a lvl 75 by then.
I started FFXIV in Beta, and once hitting lvl 50 a week into the game, I now see a lot of names I recognize on Ultros.

I don't believe I have the same problem.

Edited, Jan 13th 2014 12:19pm by Valkayree
#3 Jan 13 2014 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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I recognize lots of people.

Up until now, parties were mostly through DF, so you wouldn't see people again. With party finder, that'll probably change.
#4 Jan 13 2014 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Hang out in Revenants Toll for 10 minutes... You will easily see names of all the 50's with nothing else to do.
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#5 Jan 13 2014 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
what is FFXIV missing that it doesnt have that same "experience"

Stop injecting your poor attitude into everything and go troll somewhere else.
#6 Jan 13 2014 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah, it's still very early in the game's life cycle. The only people I remember on my journey to 75 in XI were people in my linkshell, and one guy who was later on in my HNMs. That guy was in one of my jungle parties around level 26, and I only remembered him because I got an awesome screenshot of all the dead bodies after the puller got aggro from an extra goblin. Smiley: lol

Edit: Oh, forgot the dude I blacklisted for humping my character in Crawler's Nest. He was later banned.

Edited, Jan 13th 2014 2:26pm by Catwho
#7 Jan 13 2014 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
what is FFXIV missing that it doesnt have that same "experience" (couldnt think of a better word)?

It's missing the multiple hours of having to seek to get stuff done. The upside of the way XI was structured is that you had to play with a lot of the same people on your server, rather than people on other servers. The downside was that it took multiple hours of seeking, which was then followed up by multiple hour excursions.
#8 Jan 13 2014 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
The upside of the way XI was structured is that you had to play with a lot of the same people on your server, rather than people on other servers.

This. I know few people on my server outside of my FC simply because I never have any reason to party with anyone. I'm always running DF with people from other servers who I'll never see again. It's a little sad too because I've met some really cool people in DF and I'd love to be able to run stuff with them again, or even just chat every once in a while, but they're on other servers, so no.
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#9 Jan 13 2014 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Karlina wrote:
svlyons wrote:
The upside of the way XI was structured is that you had to play with a lot of the same people on your server, rather than people on other servers.

This. I know few people on my server outside of my FC simply because I never have any reason to party with anyone. I'm always running DF with people from other servers who I'll never see again. It's a little sad too because I've met some really cool people in DF and I'd love to be able to run stuff with them again, or even just chat every once in a while, but they're on other servers, so no.


I have a few people on my friend list not in the FC, but I've never run into them since the first time I added them.
#10 Jan 13 2014 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Karlina wrote:
svlyons wrote:
The upside of the way XI was structured is that you had to play with a lot of the same people on your server, rather than people on other servers.

This. I know few people on my server outside of my FC simply because I never have any reason to party with anyone. I'm always running DF with people from other servers who I'll never see again. It's a little sad too because I've met some really cool people in DF and I'd love to be able to run stuff with them again, or even just chat every once in a while, but they're on other servers, so no.


I have a few people on my friend list not in the FC, but I've never run into them since the first time I added them.

Yeah, I added about 20 people to my friend list when playing the game since launch, but 75% of them don't logon at all anymore Smiley: frown
#11 Jan 13 2014 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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What the OP is really saying...

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
why is it in FFXIV you could get multiple jobs to 50 and not even be able to name 10 people on our server. Whereas in lets say FFXI. by the time you hit 75 (when it was the cap) you knew EVERY other 75 on your server?


OP translated: I really miss feeling like everyone knew who I was in XI...and I had elite gear but in XIV everyone is able to get that stuff so I feel like a nobody and not an uber awesome saint. I'm going to disregard the fact that in XI there were on average 1k to 2k people per server, but in XIV there are like 30k a server. I'm also going to disregard the fact that the game has been out 5 months and pretend that after my first 5 months on XI I knew everyone which is likely not the case I just dont remember my feeling prior to that.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
I mean even people i saw shouting in Jeuno if i had never personally met them (in game) i still recognized/knew them by the ls they belong too by reputation (be it good or bad)..


OP translated:I really miss Endgame Linkshells who warred and bickered about everything. I miss that people would see that I was in XXX and just know that I was awesome because of it.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
what is FFXIV missing that it doesnt have that same "experience" (couldnt think of a better word)?


OP translated: I really wanted FFXI with better graphics and new content.
#12 Jan 13 2014 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the best way to describe this is:

FFXI did a fantastic job of bringing the "everquest" experience to consoles in a Final Fantasy Based world.

FFXIV did a fantastic job of bringing the "wow" experience to consoles in a Final Fantasy Based world.

It's not quite that simple, I know, but more or less that's the core difference: Forcing yourselves to work together to get things done in FFXI was simultaneously incredibly agonizing and incredibly rewarding. Today I would not want to go through that same agony as I am older and have far less free time, but it did have an awesome side effect of creating a "know everyone by reputation" environment. This meant if you were an ***, no one wanted anything to do with you (or at least you were condemned to playing alongside like-minded individuals). Because the game centered around text instead of voice (no built in voice chat options and ventrillo and teamspeak were reservered for twitch first person shooters for the most part) it meant party chat was heavily used and made it much easier to "join the conversation" of otherwise tight-knit cliques.

In today's MMO's it's a different world in the sense that most people that are close friends are talking via some form of chat, making it harder to "join the conversation". The intimate relationship of picking members of a group is nearly dead, as groups for events no longer rely explicitly on a "leader-based" system but instead a more accessible "free-for-all" "queue-based" systems where judgment of those invited is not passed by reputation, but instead a mindless "who queued first" computerized decision. By the time you do an event together, you are usually surrounded by people who just want to quickly "get the event over with" since many have likely done the events several times already, so people just jump into the action without discussion or thought - so it's not uncommon to complete a dungeon or event without so much as a single phrase being spoken aside from a "hello" at the start and a "thanks for the run!" afterwords. For the most part, these people may as well have been NPCs, which might very well be an even better solution so you don't have to deal with the riptide of insults and "OMG..." followed by someone bailing from the group the first time a mistake is made.

I see an onslaught of hate flying towards the OP, and perhaps a poor choice of wording incites this, but when I read the post, I can't help but agree that the nature of MMO's has changed enough to question how to reclaim that now-so-vary-rare "life long bond" with other players so many once felt.

One of my best friends is a player I met in FFXI, and while we are long past the days of FFXI, and I've yet to meet this person in real life, he's still a very important part of my life and I speak with him on a daily basis (whether we get a chance to relax and play a game together that week or not). It's difficult for me to imagine us being the friends we are today if we had met in the current generation of MMO's. Furthermore, he met his current wife in FFXI, I cannot even fathom that relationship taking root in this "smash and grab" generation of MMOs.

All that being said, I think this generation of games is a better generation of games, the problems I see tend to stem largely from our very human nature, driven by greed and the need to progress. I also see that while MMOs are intended to be the "social media" of video games, today they all lack a solid "social interface". Why is there no "in-game facebook" where I can look up "Captain Steve" and see what his interests are, read his bio and back story, and maybe learn something about his real life or schedule to know when we can play together in the future? If we are going to be as impersonal as we are today with MMOs, I think they should at the very least make an attempt to "allow" for more easily accessible social interaction, since forcing it isn't something we want, have time for, and in many cases, outright fear.
#13 Jan 13 2014 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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You say that FFXIV brings the WoW experience to consoles, but WoW was not always what it is now. I started my MMO career with FFXI, but I didn't have the time to dedicate to get really good at the game (high levels, good gear, and the like). Because of that, I switched to WoW about 4 months after it released. What I found was a game that didn't require the massive time investment that FFXI required, but still had some of the same scope. You were still playing exclusively with people from the same server as you, there were just more of them. I got to know a lot of people in WoW, not only in my own faction, but in the enemy faction as well. I knew if I was questing in a world PVP hotbed, and I saw "Kittenslayer" (name changed to protect the innocent) pop up in the area, $#!@ was about to go down.

Later on, WoW changed and started doing everything cross-server, but that was much, much later. WoW lasted for 4 years or more as a game where you only played with people from your server, and you got to know other people and develop relationships. I know of at least 2 marriages that started with the couple meeting on WoW, and two of my best friends IRL now are people I knew IRL, found out they played WoW, and we got to be better friends because of it.
#14 Jan 13 2014 at 9:22 PM Rating: Default
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FUJILIVES wrote:
I think the best way to describe this is:

FFXI did a fantastic job of bringing the "everquest" experience to consoles in a Final Fantasy Based world.

FFXIV did a fantastic job of bringing the "wow" experience to consoles in a Final Fantasy Based world.

It's not quite that simple, I know, but more or less that's the core difference: Forcing yourselves to work together to get things done in FFXI was simultaneously incredibly agonizing and incredibly rewarding. Today I would not want to go through that same agony as I am older and have far less free time, but it did have an awesome side effect of creating a "know everyone by reputation" environment. This meant if you were an ***, no one wanted anything to do with you (or at least you were condemned to playing alongside like-minded individuals). Because the game centered around text instead of voice (no built in voice chat options and ventrillo and teamspeak were reservered for twitch first person shooters for the most part) it meant party chat was heavily used and made it much easier to "join the conversation" of otherwise tight-knit cliques.

In today's MMO's it's a different world in the sense that most people that are close friends are talking via some form of chat, making it harder to "join the conversation". The intimate relationship of picking members of a group is nearly dead, as groups for events no longer rely explicitly on a "leader-based" system but instead a more accessible "free-for-all" "queue-based" systems where judgment of those invited is not passed by reputation, but instead a mindless "who queued first" computerized decision. By the time you do an event together, you are usually surrounded by people who just want to quickly "get the event over with" since many have likely done the events several times already, so people just jump into the action without discussion or thought - so it's not uncommon to complete a dungeon or event without so much as a single phrase being spoken aside from a "hello" at the start and a "thanks for the run!" afterwords. For the most part, these people may as well have been NPCs, which might very well be an even better solution so you don't have to deal with the riptide of insults and "OMG..." followed by someone bailing from the group the first time a mistake is made.

I see an onslaught of hate flying towards the OP, and perhaps a poor choice of wording incites this, but when I read the post, I can't help but agree that the nature of MMO's has changed enough to question how to reclaim that now-so-vary-rare "life long bond" with other players so many once felt.

One of my best friends is a player I met in FFXI, and while we are long past the days of FFXI, and I've yet to meet this person in real life, he's still a very important part of my life and I speak with him on a daily basis (whether we get a chance to relax and play a game together that week or not). It's difficult for me to imagine us being the friends we are today if we had met in the current generation of MMO's. Furthermore, he met his current wife in FFXI, I cannot even fathom that relationship taking root in this "smash and grab" generation of MMOs.

All that being said, I think this generation of games is a better generation of games, the problems I see tend to stem largely from our very human nature, driven by greed and the need to progress. I also see that while MMOs are intended to be the "social media" of video games, today they all lack a solid "social interface". Why is there no "in-game facebook" where I can look up "Captain Steve" and see what his interests are, read his bio and back story, and maybe learn something about his real life or schedule to know when we can play together in the future? If we are going to be as impersonal as we are today with MMOs, I think they should at the very least make an attempt to "allow" for more easily accessible social interaction, since forcing it isn't something we want, have time for, and in many cases, outright fear.



So youre saying WoW has a crappy community too? I mean I believe community should be part of a MASSIVELY MULTILAYER game... and FFXI (as well as mmos before it) brought that sense of feeling. heck id even say DCUO (as much as i hate that game) does too. FFXIV seems more like a single player game with multiplayer thrown in. A perfect example would be Demon/Dark souls.. sure you can play with others but theyre all anonymous so theres really no "connection" or sense of community there
#15DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Jan 13 2014 at 9:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I remember seeing as much as 7k on FFXI when it first launched as for FFXIV having 30k per server.. wanna show me a link with those numbers? As for knowing everyone in my fist 5 months in FFXI. Well considering I said HIGH level and the fact that level 75 took me a full 12 months the first time theres no way I knew everyone in my first 5 months. Now putting FFXIv in the same comparison its 5 months old I have 2 jobs at 50 another at 34 and the rest at 15. In less than half the time it took me to get ONE to 75 in XI. So factoring in the rate of time it takes to hit max level in FFXIV with how long it took in XI I would say its very fair to compare 5 months of FFXIV to 12 months of ffxi
#16 Jan 13 2014 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not sure why its like that but I have a few ideas. Duty finder takes away lot of planning around people's schedule, and eliminating the need for real linkshell or free company events. If Bobby wants to get his Titan extreme on, he can just duty. He doesn't have to help other free company members get to that point, and even if he did only 7 people can go with him to the event.

I think FFXI held like 3k per server at a time, where as FFXIV I think holds 10-11k per server. So it will take a little longer to get familiar with everyone on the server. I run into new people all the time, but with a name such as Luciano Bozzelli I get a lot of people saying they've seen me around before running around Diabolos. Not to mention my bro's name is Marciano Bozzelli, so the Bozzelli brothers get around. :P

That being said... some of my fondest memories from FFXI was catching the linkshell events that were weekly scheduled, and taking down storyline missions from expansions together. Groups running through Rivern Site B, people all together sneaking past mobs in the promy's. Things like that, that brought people together, and I agree with the all out typing to each other sealed other bonds. We had Teamspeak back then, but it wasn't so much needed, or requested to be on all the time. Now like someone said, groups of cliques within free companies are getting together on teamspeak having great conversations and laughing up, while the man in the free company chat just see's it as, people are quiet today, let me run some more duty finders.

But the party finder function is well welcomed, and have enjoyed meeting people on my server that need things done. I always love helping some random man with a Titan party, or a Hydra. This game can easily be as friendly, and welcoming as FFXI can be. But it starts with us, the community, raising one random dead guy at a time, and helping a group beat something if your available. I always felt like the more people you helped, and the more people you met, ultimately made your experience better filled with people that know you, really respect you, and know you as a friend that will help when needed without thinking of personal gains.

Unless its Sunday night, and I haven't gotten all my myths yet for some reason!!!!!! Then I'm busy!!!!! LOL

Edited, Jan 13th 2014 11:57pm by SirLuciousLeftfoot
#17 Jan 14 2014 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
I don't know, I recognize a lot of names already. Some people I 100% recommend for events and others I stay the hell away from. I honestly think part of the problem (for me) is the last name. The sheer amount of Japanese names that overlap each other is mind boggling, leading to me getting confused. Least in XI you only had the one name to remember making it stand out. This is all to me though, someone else's brain might function properly and not have these issues. This the Akira I played with last week, oh no wait, that was another Akira...
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#18 Jan 14 2014 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
What the OP is really saying...

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
why is it in FFXIV you could get multiple jobs to 50 and not even be able to name 10 people on our server. Whereas in lets say FFXI. by the time you hit 75 (when it was the cap) you knew EVERY other 75 on your server?


OP translated: I really miss feeling like everyone knew who I was in XI...and I had elite gear but in XIV everyone is able to get that stuff so I feel like a nobody and not an uber awesome saint. I'm going to disregard the fact that in XI there were on average 1k to 2k people per server, but in XIV there are like 30k a server. I'm also going to disregard the fact that the game has been out 5 months and pretend that after my first 5 months on XI I knew everyone which is likely not the case I just dont remember my feeling prior to that.
.



I remember seeing as much as 7k on FFXI when it first launched as for FFXIV having 30k per server.. wanna show me a link with those numbers? As for knowing everyone in my fist 5 months in FFXI. Well considering I said HIGH level and the fact that level 75 took me a full 12 months the first time theres no way I knew everyone in my first 5 months. Now putting FFXIv in the same comparison its 5 months old I have 2 jobs at 50 another at 34 and the rest at 15. In less than half the time it took me to get ONE to 75 in XI. So factoring in the rate of time it takes to hit max level in FFXIV with how long it took in XI I would say its very fair to compare 5 months of FFXIV to 12 months of ffxi


the 30k per server was just from the queue when I try to log in.

No I don't think you comparisons are fair at all...because FFXIV is a different game to FFXI. It's not apples to apples.
In FFXI in the 12 months you took to level to 75 how many hours would you say you sat around searching and just random chatting? There is none of that in FFXIV because we don't have to wait to level, we are not forced to party up to do everything. However the community is what you make it, if you want to have more friends in the game or have more interactions nothing is stopping you...Party Find an XP party or spiritbonding. You can do it...its just not the only way anymore.

#19 Jan 17 2014 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheAnf wrote:
OP translated: I really miss feeling like everyone knew who I was in XI...and I had elite gear but in XIV everyone is able to get that stuff so I feel like a nobody and not an uber awesome saint.

Not necessarily true. I didn't even hit 75 in XI and I feel that way. I miss seeing people with crazy gear that I know I'll never be able to obtain, heading off to an adventure that I will never experience. It made the world feel real and alive. The same can be said for seeing an NM out in the wild, or running into another player or party in a dungeon, or being terrified when "the effect of Sneak is about to wear off" popped up on your screen because there were actually areas where you could die if you got detected! The mob wouldn't immediately forget about you if you just kept running.

There was a sense of danger, and a sense of accomplishment. XIV has neither of those. You can get literally the best weapon in the game two weeks after you hit 50, and it takes some people days to go 1-50 (and some of them still complain about how slow it is!). I played XI for over two years and made it to 71. I still play XIV a few hours a week and have fun with it but it doesn't even compare to the experience that I had with XI.

Everyone has everything...so many people have soloed all jobs to 50, all crafts to 50, and have multiple zeniths. Nothing means anything in XIV.
#20 Jan 17 2014 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
I wonder how many people in XI had a job at 50 within a month of the game first coming out?
#21 Jan 17 2014 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I wonder how many people in XI had a job at 50 within a month of the game first coming out?


I'm not sure when I hit 50, but it took me over a year to get to 65. Stopped RDM for several months to fish and craft... then had to quit cuz RL is a beyotch sometimes.
#22 Jan 17 2014 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nainz wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
OP translated: I really miss feeling like everyone knew who I was in XI...and I had elite gear but in XIV everyone is able to get that stuff so I feel like a nobody and not an uber awesome saint.

Not necessarily true. I didn't even hit 75 in XI and I feel that way. I miss seeing people with crazy gear that I know I'll never be able to obtain, heading off to an adventure that I will never experience. It made the world feel real and alive. The same can be said for seeing an NM out in the wild, or running into another player or party in a dungeon, or being terrified when "the effect of Sneak is about to wear off" popped up on your screen because there were actually areas where you could die if you got detected! The mob wouldn't immediately forget about you if you just kept running.

There was a sense of danger, and a sense of accomplishment. XIV has neither of those. You can get literally the best weapon in the game two weeks after you hit 50, and it takes some people days to go 1-50 (and some of them still complain about how slow it is!). I played XI for over two years and made it to 71. I still play XIV a few hours a week and have fun with it but it doesn't even compare to the experience that I had with XI.

Everyone has everything...so many people have soloed all jobs to 50, all crafts to 50, and have multiple zeniths. Nothing means anything in XIV.


I'm not saying there aren't things in FFXI that I miss...XI was my fav game of all time enough so that I paid to play it over 6 years... I loved the open world danger and the fact I could venture into the Crawlers nest and kick mobs asses on the first few floors then run down the wrong way and get owned.

My issue is that FFXIV and XI are different games. Is FFXIV easier absolutely. I don't think that is debatable.

I think part of the issue everyone has with FFXIV is that the dev team used terms from XI for easier to acquire items for example the relic weapons. In XI a relic meant business they were rare and very much a status of achievement. In XIV our relics are just quest reward weapons that share the name.

This coupled with the fact there aren't many jobs yet or many gear choices (at 50 you basically will either be in DL, AF2 or allagan) if makes the game feel bland because everyone looks the same etc etc
#23 Jan 17 2014 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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Haha, i do remember how there were certain people that you just knew by name in FFXI. there was a hume female named Alicevirgin that everyone knew because they were one of the first people to have the PLD relic and shield (along with BiS everything). Supposedly 2-4 people played on that character though.

Much of that experience is gone with the whole new age of homogeneous tiered gear and the ability to play the game and literally never leave your mog house (after your first 50 I suppose).
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