Twice now, I've - in a very polite manner - advised to our fellow whm in Titan Extreme that Cure 3 can hit the whole party now, and twice now I've been chewed out for saying such things.
The first time I thought it was just a fluke, that the whm was just having a bad day or something, but then it happens again and now I'm not so sure.
Both times it was in an "fyi" fashion, just making them aware of the possibility, but apparently there is no polite way to say it as it's apparently a taboo to "tell a healer how to play their job" (in one of their own words). The other other argued that it wasn't as mana efficient, of which I responded, "That's fine, whatever works best for you." which in-turn got a harsh "Shall I tell you how to play smn now?"
Am I doing something wrong?
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Lollerfell wrote:
Twice now, I've - in a very polite manner - advised to our fellow whm in Titan Extreme that Cure 3 can hit the whole party now, and twice now I've been chewed out for saying such things.
The first time I thought it was just a fluke, that the whm was just having a bad day or something, but then it happens again and now I'm not so sure.
Both times it was in an "fyi" fashion, just making them aware of the possibility, but apparently there is no polite way to say it as it's apparently a taboo to "tell a healer how to play their job" (in one of their own words). The other other argued that it wasn't as mana efficient, of which I responded, "That's fine, whatever works best for you." which in-turn got a harsh "Shall I tell you how to play smn now?"
Am I doing something wrong?
The first time I thought it was just a fluke, that the whm was just having a bad day or something, but then it happens again and now I'm not so sure.
Both times it was in an "fyi" fashion, just making them aware of the possibility, but apparently there is no polite way to say it as it's apparently a taboo to "tell a healer how to play their job" (in one of their own words). The other other argued that it wasn't as mana efficient, of which I responded, "That's fine, whatever works best for you." which in-turn got a harsh "Shall I tell you how to play smn now?"
Am I doing something wrong?
Cure 3 has a fraction of the radius of Medica 1 or 2. It works when everyone is stacked together for the 2 seconds it takes to cast it, but outside of that, there's a good chance it's going to miss people. And in a fight like that, missing someone from being cured is a death sentence. It's best to leave it to the healer's discretion.
I used Cure 3 for Geocrushes on Titan HM and I've gotten no flak for it.
With all the closer movement that seems to be required for Titan EX, I have no idea why it would be so frowned upon.
With all the closer movement that seems to be required for Titan EX, I have no idea why it would be so frowned upon.
Xoie wrote:
Cure 3 has a fraction of the radius of Medica 1 or 2. It works when everyone is stacked together for the 2 seconds it takes to cast it, but outside of that, there's a good chance it's going to miss people. And in a fight like that, missing someone from being cured is a death sentence. It's best to leave it to the healer's discretion.
Which is definitely an issue on any fight but Titan Ex/Twin where you have people stacked up constantly for a majority of the fight.
It should be pretty obvious to a WHM on this fight if overcure does proc to use it, though. However, it isn't always the ideal cure to use even if everyone is stacked outside of overcure procs. Sometimes you want the regen that medica 2 has on it since you know there will be unmitigated AoE on top of more unmitigated AoE (tumult > jump > geocrush, for example).
It really just depends on the healer, though. I've done the fight with WHMs who use both playstyles: one who sticks to medica, the other who uses cure 3 when possible. If you are dying a lot due to not being healed up or one of the healer is always going OOM and people aren't dying much, it might be an issue to bring up with the healer.
Edited, Jan 12th 2014 4:47am by HitomeOfBismarck
Lollerfell wrote:
Am I doing something wrong?
Yes. You're expecting people to take suggestions from random strangers during a high stress situation. People who want to improve will seek input from sources that they know and trust. So don't be surprised when people react less than positively when you try to provide advice for them out of the blue.
Was the run going poorly when you gave this advice? Usually when advice like this gets handed out, it's after a wipe or two. You may not be intending to come across in this manner, but the healers may have interpreted your advice as an implication that they were the cause of the group's struggles.
If you advise them, then it sounds like you are the expert on the class. I can see some amount of backlash as a result. Maybe say something like "Is it ever better to use Cure III than Medica II for your aoe heals? Like maybe after geo-crush when we're all stacked?" This way there is actual open-ended discussion rather than what might come off as one-way lecturing.
It is hard to pick up on the tone of party chat comments sometimes, so some amount of tact is always necessary so that your attitude, whether positive or negative, won't be misunderstood.
It is hard to pick up on the tone of party chat comments sometimes, so some amount of tact is always necessary so that your attitude, whether positive or negative, won't be misunderstood.
Maybe it's me, but I always find going "FYI" to be kinda catty. I'm not sure if that's how actual advice was conveyed, but overall, it's not uncommon for people to get defensive when they perceive they're being accused of playing improperly.
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I can't speak for ex but for HM I only use c3 for geocrush. The area is quite small. Medica 1 is a bit bigger and then med 2 is biggest. Med 2 heals less but has the regen. So I usually stick to med 1 up through 3 tumults. After that I only cast med 2 often enough to keep regen up. What's nice about c3 is that it's centered an your target so if you have a group of melee taking smacks you can drop a c3 on he tank and it kinda splashes the others. But other than that it's a big waste of mp even with over cure up
Quote:
Yes. You're expecting people to take suggestions from random strangers during a high stress situation. People who want to improve will seek input from sources that they know and trust. So don't be surprised when people react less than positively when you try to provide advice for them out of the blue.
Well, when you're in DF/PF with a group, your first priority should be beating the fight, and figuring out how to do better if you fail. That takes the form of talking to your party mates and trying to make things run more smoothly. Being pig headed about reasonable suggestions and reaming out the player giving advice isn't actually constructive to anyone at all. It's quite the opposite.
T4 is somewhere I pretty often get orders given about what songs to sing and when. I calmly inform them that they'll be getting a bit of ballad in T1, Requiem in T3 until they can prove their DPS is enough to take down the DN, and Ballad/Voice after that when it's needed. Unless someone is abrasive, there's no need to be rude as described in the OP.
Besides that it's pretty well known that Cure 3 is awesome for fights where the group is closely knit (i.e. Titan EX), and I'm not even a healer.
Quote:
If you advise them, then it sounds like you are the expert on the class.
Yes, and gracious players who want to improve their value to the team will listen. How people respond to helpful advice tells you a lot about them.
Edited, Jan 13th 2014 3:49am by blowfin
blowfin wrote:
Quote:
Yes. You're expecting people to take suggestions from random strangers during a high stress situation. People who want to improve will seek input from sources that they know and trust. So don't be surprised when people react less than positively when you try to provide advice for them out of the blue.
Well, when you're in DF/PF with a group, your first priority should be beating the fight, and figuring out how to do better if you fail. That takes the form of talking to your party mates and trying to make things run more smoothly. Being pig headed about reasonable suggestions and reaming out the player giving advice isn't actually constructive to anyone at all. It's quite the opposite.
I was giving advice to the person giving advice, not the people receiving advice. If you feel giving out advice improves your chances at success, fine. Just don't be surprised at how people react to it.
Quote:
I was giving advice to the person giving advice, not the people receiving advice. If you feel giving out advice improves your chances at success, fine. Just don't be surprised at how people react to it.
Right, so you're defending people who react badly to receiving polite, useful advice and telling the OP to suck it down. Or have I got that wrong?
"It's possible i'm being abrasive, but it's that time of the month! Makes it OK right?"
Edited, Jan 13th 2014 7:22am by blowfin
Quote:
suck it down
I can't see these words anymore without thinking about Daikatana and having a good laugh
I used Medica II exclusively last night in CM and Praetorium (and otherwise lobbed Cure IIs.) That Regen is priceless in messy fights where a lot of people are going to be taking damage and bouncing all over the place. It allowed me to continue to focus on the tank while at the same time healing up a large number of bodies.
blowfin wrote:
Quote:
I was giving advice to the person giving advice, not the people receiving advice. If you feel giving out advice improves your chances at success, fine. Just don't be surprised at how people react to it.
Right, so you're defending people who react badly to receiving polite, useful advice and telling the OP to suck it down. Or have I got that wrong?
"It's possible i'm being abrasive, but it's that time of the month! Makes it OK right?"
Edited, Jan 13th 2014 7:22am by blowfin
Well when you start off by saying fyi for you advice you immediately sound like a ****, do nothing polite about that. Also if I'm tanking only people I wanna hear give me advice are tanks, or if a healer has a suggestion about something they might want me to do.
This person proly got offended by a dps trying to tell them how to heal when using c3 Is not the only way to do something and not miles away better then what they were doing.
Catwho wrote:
I used Medica II exclusively last night in CM and Praetorium (and otherwise lobbed Cure IIs.) That Regen is priceless in messy fights where a lot of people are going to be taking damage and bouncing all over the place. It allowed me to continue to focus on the tank while at the same time healing up a large number of bodies.
Yeah any fight where there's unavoidable AOE that's going to ding the whole group, or bosses with lot's of adds, Med II is a must and CM has several fights like that. I try to make sure that group regen is always ticking if possible.
It's also really great on protracted battles where there's lots going on, like Titan. That way you can ABH (always be healing :P) without the need to swap targets. The fact that the Med2 stacks with Regen is awesome :)
blowfin wrote:
Quote:
I was giving advice to the person giving advice, not the people receiving advice. If you feel giving out advice improves your chances at success, fine. Just don't be surprised at how people react to it.
Right, so you're defending people who react badly to receiving polite, useful advice and telling the OP to suck it down. Or have I got that wrong?
I am not defending anything. I am saying people should have realistic expectations of how others behave.
You can't change other people. You can only change yourself. The OP is in the position of having given advice rather than being on the other end. The OP can't change the way other people react to him. He can either change the situations under which he gives advice, or mentally ready himself for the very likely backlash he is going to get when giving advice.
I've been kicked for explaining the fights in CT before. :|
Just a small addenum. The Regen from Medica II + Regen can give you a breather during times of steady incoming damage. Ive found that these save me a lot of mana use in the long run.
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Basically, you're explaining something to people who had issues standing on Atomos Platforms in Labyrinth and most who FATE their way to 50. Cure III, yes, normally you'd never use or very rarely use most are too up in BG/Mr. Happy's **** to really care about what anyone else says.
Yoshi wanted this playerbase for FFXIV, you really shouldn't be surprised.
Yoshi wanted this playerbase for FFXIV, you really shouldn't be surprised.
GavilrainOfGaruda wrote:
Just a small addenum. The Regen from Medica II + Regen can give you a breather during times of steady incoming damage. Ive found that these save me a lot of mana use in the long run.
They are also the foremost cause of healer deaths in the game. The enmity build up from using that too many times in a row is rediculous, probably exactly for the reason that it is that good to use. A healer friend of mine who doesnt really understand not to spam that all the time is always in second place for max hate, even when bringing crazy Relic+1 Allegan DPS people.
So word of the wise, use it only when needed. And when it's needed, make sure it's not at the start of a fight.
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KojiroSoma wrote:
GavilrainOfGaruda wrote:
Just a small addenum. The Regen from Medica II + Regen can give you a breather during times of steady incoming damage. Ive found that these save me a lot of mana use in the long run.
They are also the foremost cause of healer deaths in the game. The enmity build up from using that too many times in a row is rediculous, probably exactly for the reason that it is that good to use. A healer friend of mine who doesnt really understand not to spam that all the time is always in second place for max hate, even when bringing crazy Relic+1 Allegan DPS people.
So word of the wise, use it only when needed. And when it's needed, make sure it's not at the start of a fight.
This is true.... It can save you and it can kill you especially in things where there are lots of adds spawning and the first thing they do is come after you... It is great on titan where the tank only has one mob to hold hate to throw up on stomps.
Edited, Jan 15th 2014 10:57am by Nashred
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Have some faith in your tanks. :P The recent increase to enmity they've received was pretty nice. A PLD should easily be able to use cover on any mage who has taken aggro so that they do not die. Not surprising that a majority of the time this isn't done. They also have provoke. While this is saved for certain parts of specific fights, if your healer dies due not wanting to use provoke, it just created another issue.
Medica 2 is very dangerous, yes, but there aren't many other options out there. Timing shroud is pretty much all you can do. :\
Medica 2 is very dangerous, yes, but there aren't many other options out there. Timing shroud is pretty much all you can do. :\
You could just add a smiley or "lol" to the end of whatever you say. That makes everything better!
Edit: lol :)
Edited, Jan 15th 2014 12:43pm by reptiletim
Edit: lol :)
Edited, Jan 15th 2014 12:43pm by reptiletim
Yeah, I had no enmity issues when I did CM and Praetorium over the week. I didn't spam Medica II, but I did use it when there were a large number of people who got smacked.
Regen, though, I abuse the hell out of.
Regen, though, I abuse the hell out of.
Catwho wrote:
Yeah, I had no enmity issues when I did CM and Praetorium over the week. I didn't spam Medica II, but I did use it when there were a large number of people who got smacked.
Regen, though, I abuse the hell out of.
Regen, though, I abuse the hell out of.
Yeah, same here. I all but exclusively use Regen to heal DPS. The insta-cast makes it so convenient. I can be dodging mechanics and pop them out like crazy lol. I only drop a c1/2 on a DPS if I've just raised them and need to get them up quick or mechanics will kill them if I don't top them off.
If I have time, I also stoneskin after raise.
I guess I am one of the few healers that dose not use regen much if at all. I almost never pop it on a tank unless I know I am about to have a lot of healing to do in a short amount of time. For the most part I stick to cure/cure 2 and medica/medica 2. medica is my go to spell when I need to get the group up and there is a chance I will steal hate using medica 2. Mostly when there are adds or an add about to spawn. Medica 2 I cast mostly to get the regen effect out when I know a lot of aoe is about to hit but i still go back to medica to top the group off I am not a fan of spamming medica 2. Cure 3 I don't recall casting that in the past few weeks lol. If I did I am guessing it was a slip. Even with over cure Medica seems to out shine cure 3 for the heal you get with the mana cost.
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