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[NA] Regarding Actions Taken Against In-Game RMT (Jan.9)Follow

#1 Jan 09 2014 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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[NA] Regarding Actions Taken Against In-Game RMT and Other Illicit Activities (Jan.9)

Hi guys, saw this when I went to the main forum just now, thought I'd share it. Smiley: grin
Quote:

[NA] Regarding Actions Taken Against In-Game RMT and Other Illicit Activities (Jan.9)

RMT and other illicit activities upset the balance of the game and, as such, are prohibited under the Terms of Service.

Because we have confirmed the existence of players who are engaging in these illicit activities, we have taken the actions listed below.

Time Period: Dec. 26, 2013 to Jan. 8, 2014
- Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT advertising: 969
- Accounts receiving disciplinary action for illicit activity: 191
- Action Details: Permanent ban from FINAL FANTASY XIV

Included in the above are players who used/obtained gil, items, or actions through fraudulent means. Although we are taking the utmost care and attention to prevent such actions, players who discover any confirmed cheats should, under no circumstances, exploit or disseminate such information. Instead, we ask that players file a report by using the in-game command [System Menu] -> [Support Desk] -> [Contact Us] -> [Report Cheating].

We will continue to take stringent disciplinary action against any accounts with confirmed involvement in RMT/illicit activity; players should take care to steer clear of any activity that violates the Terms of Service.

#2 Jan 09 2014 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
So 900+ spambots and nearly 200 mining bots.

Seems like there would be more.

Edit: Although, for the spam bots, I noticed that they delete and recreated their characters hourly because of people blacklisting them. So maybe 900ish accounts is about right.

Still expected more mining bots.

Edited, Jan 9th 2014 12:19pm by Catwho
#3 Jan 09 2014 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
So 900+ spambots and nearly 200 mining bots.

Seems like there would be more.

Edit: Although, for the spam bots, I noticed that they delete and recreated their characters hourly because of people blacklisting them. So maybe 900ish accounts is about right.

Still expected more mining bots.

Edited, Jan 9th 2014 12:19pm by Catwho


What I dont get is accounts cost money, do they make that much money off this that they can set up thousands of accounts? I know the first month is free but you have to buy the software which has to be registered to your account... So if they dont ban the software they just set up a new free account.. hopefully they dont just ban account and SE is smarter than that..



Edited, Jan 9th 2014 12:27pm by Nashred
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#4 Jan 09 2014 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
Nashred wrote:
Catwho wrote:
So 900+ spambots and nearly 200 mining bots.

Seems like there would be more.

Edit: Although, for the spam bots, I noticed that they delete and recreated their characters hourly because of people blacklisting them. So maybe 900ish accounts is about right.

Still expected more mining bots.

Edited, Jan 9th 2014 12:19pm by Catwho


What I dont get is accounts cost money, do they make that much money off this that they can set up thousands of accounts? I know the first month is free but you have to buy the software which has to be registered to your account... So if they dont ban the software they just set up a new free account.. hopefully they dont just ban account and SE is smarter than that..


The majority of those were hacked or stolen accounts, and/or the software was paid for with stolen credit cards.
#5 Jan 09 2014 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Catwho wrote:
So 900+ spambots and nearly 200 mining bots.

Seems like there would be more.

Edit: Although, for the spam bots, I noticed that they delete and recreated their characters hourly because of people blacklisting them. So maybe 900ish accounts is about right.

Still expected more mining bots.

Edited, Jan 9th 2014 12:19pm by Catwho


What I dont get is accounts cost money, do they make that much money off this that they can set up thousands of accounts? I know the first month is free but you have to buy the software which has to be registered to your account... So if they dont ban the software they just set up a new free account.. hopefully they dont just ban account and SE is smarter than that..


The majority of those were hacked or stolen accounts, and/or the software was paid for with stolen credit cards.


I dont know about being stolen accounts.. Most are something like sdfjhfuih sdkfjsdkfj if they were stolen most would be something that make sense.. I sure some are though but on our server most seems to be the above.. stolen card maybe..
Where do they steal the cards from? the gil buyers, if that were happening no one would buy gil...


Edited, Jan 9th 2014 12:39pm by Nashred
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#6 Jan 09 2014 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
Right. As soon as people start blacklisting the characters from the account, they delete them and make new ones with keyboard smash names.
#7 Jan 09 2014 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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And still only 20 people on my nearly 200 people blacklist are listed as (deleted), everyone else is still happily spamming away. Seeing as how there's 3 new ones every hour for my server alone. There should be 72 a day being banned. Sure, going to asume most are characters on one account, though there's several diffirent websites spamming them.

Lets not forget the 5 bots on fleece all the time, the 3 bots on boars, and atleast 20 other bots all over just farming, and 50-60 mining bots.

That they have only banned 1100 people, across 61 servers is DISGUSTING. That's 18 people per server.

Game is dying. Economy is actively being ruined by hundreds of RMT and bots, and SE bans only 18 people!? What the hell is wrong with them?
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#8 Jan 09 2014 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
And still only 20 people on my nearly 200 people blacklist are listed as (deleted), everyone else is still happily spamming away. Seeing as how there's 3 new ones every hour for my server alone. There should be 72 a day being banned. Sure, going to asume most are characters on one account, though there's several diffirent websites spamming them.

Lets not forget the 5 bots on fleece all the time, the 3 bots on boars, and atleast 20 other bots all over just farming, and 50-60 mining bots.

That they have only banned 1100 people, across 61 servers is DISGUSTING. That's 18 people per server.

Game is dying. Economy is actively being ruined by hundreds of RMT and bots, and SE bans only 18 people!? What the hell is wrong with them?


Unfortunately RMT is an issue that is not so easy to "fix"...

The best you can do is put a finger in the ***** so to speak.
#9 Jan 09 2014 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Hairspray wrote:
Unfortunately RMT is an issue that is not so easy to "fix"...

The best you can do is put a finger in the ***** so to speak.


I feel dirty...
#10 Jan 09 2014 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
So 900+ spambots and nearly 200 mining bots.

Seems like there would be more.

Still expected more mining bots.


This is in a 13 day period, that's a lot of bans in around 2 weeks.
#11 Jan 10 2014 at 4:02 AM Rating: Default
I have around 50 reported RMTs on my Blacklist. Not a single one was removed in the last 4 weeks.
#12 Jan 10 2014 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
To SE and to the game the most crucial issue to address is getting rid of the RMT characters acting as the banks for the accumulated wealth.

It hardly matters how many bots you see mining or shouting if the items and gil they acquire is deleted before any transactions take place (and if transactions take place, the sender and receiver were both to receive punishment).

You don't fight RMT by trying to ban their bots, when you get rid of one two more spawn in it's place. You go after the gil but sadly the playerbase will only see the shout and mining bots and come to inaccurate conclusions.

Not to mention when it comes to shouting you don't even have to ban the shouters as that's a futile attempt in itself, you just need to make the logarithms better for identifying bots and silencing them.

Good job on the hyperbole though. Ban the 18 people per server with all the items and gil = make it as if RMT didn't exist at all (economy-wise).

Quote:
Game is dying. Economy is actively being ruined by hundreds of RMT and bots, and SE bans only 18 people!? What the hell is wrong with them?
#13 Jan 10 2014 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
Catwho wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Catwho wrote:
So 900+ spambots and nearly 200 mining bots.

Seems like there would be more.

Edit: Although, for the spam bots, I noticed that they delete and recreated their characters hourly because of people blacklisting them. So maybe 900ish accounts is about right.

Still expected more mining bots.

Edited, Jan 9th 2014 12:19pm by Catwho


What I dont get is accounts cost money, do they make that much money off this that they can set up thousands of accounts? I know the first month is free but you have to buy the software which has to be registered to your account... So if they dont ban the software they just set up a new free account.. hopefully they dont just ban account and SE is smarter than that..


The majority of those were hacked or stolen accounts, and/or the software was paid for with stolen credit cards.


It's a well known tactic for Blizzard and many other p2p games to ban RMT accounts at set times (making sure to give the RMT enough time between bans to make a profit so that they continue to do it). The idea being that they will immediately buy another account to do it again (they buy thousands of accounts after each ban), repeat for as long as the players will buy gil (which is a great reason to unbalance the economy because it encourages RMT buying.

They spend $15-30 on the game but make massive profits from rmt sales, as long as you make money from the initial purchase it's worth it and at the slow rate Square bans it's most definately worth it. So they immediately buy another game and repeat for as long as the developer allows them to make the profits.

End result? Square makes money from new waves of box sales as the chinese buy them all again, RMT makes money selling gold to the players.
If Square really wanted to stop RMT they could destroy them really quickly (as they did on FFXI later on) they don't do it because it's not in their best interest, they are simply using them to make money from more box sales after each ban wave.

There are many interviews with RMT companies that state this as the unwritten rule between P2P developer/publisher and the RMT business, they exist because the developers let them exist and profit off that existence.

Edited, Jan 10th 2014 6:49am by preludes
#14 Jan 10 2014 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
It's cute that you thing the RMT are spending their own money to do that.

There is a huge, HUGE black market for stolen credit card numbers. Target was the most recent victim of a breach, with some 40 million account numbers stolen and floating out there between Thanksgiving and late December. The RMT pay someone a buck for a stolen account, and use that to buy the game with. By the time SE gets around to banning them and refunding the money to the credit card account holder, the RMT account has already made a couple thousand dollars.

That's one reason SE put in place their Secure Mastercard and Visa requirements in FFXI some years ago. The charge backs the RMT were causing ended up costing a lot of money and headaches.
#15 Jan 10 2014 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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If you have a minute to spare, this post on reddit really changed my perception of who the RMT really are... I had assumed it was offices full of PC's and army's of underpaid, overworked Chinese people forced to work in 24 hour shifts under the crack of a whip...

It's really different than what I expected, and this guy saw them with his own eyes...

Pretty cool read if you have time: REDDIT POST ON RMT
#16 Jan 10 2014 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Hairspray wrote:
If you have a minute to spare, this post on reddit really changed my perception of who the RMT really are... I had assumed it was offices full of PC's and army's of underpaid, overworked Chinese people forced to work in 24 hour shifts under the crack of a whip...

It's really different than what I expected, and this guy saw them with his own eyes...

Pretty cool read if you have time: REDDIT POST ON RMT



Yea thats how it works.. if you have a million gil and it sells for 100 they give you a percentage of what they can sell it for like 50 bucks.. Thats a made up amount just for a example.

Another place they get gil or stuff to sell is people leaving the game. They will buy your character. They will then sell everything on that character or even sell the character to someone else... I knew someone in FFXI that had all jobs leveled fully and this guy had the best gear for everything and lots of gil well he actually got thousands for his account. I actually knew two people who did this personally and another that did it.....

My ffxi account is actually worth pretty much and I dont use it, i have not sold it though..

That is pretty hard to pass up for most leaving a game they wll never come back too... Cash...







Edited, Jan 10th 2014 10:41am by Nashred
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#17 Jan 10 2014 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
Catwho wrote:
It's cute that you thing the RMT are spending their own money to do that.

There is a huge, HUGE black market for stolen credit card numbers. Target was the most recent victim of a breach, with some 40 million account numbers stolen and floating out there between Thanksgiving and late December. The RMT pay someone a buck for a stolen account, and use that to buy the game with. By the time SE gets around to banning them and refunding the money to the credit card account holder, the RMT account has already made a couple thousand dollars.

That's one reason SE put in place their Secure Mastercard and Visa requirements in FFXI some years ago. The charge backs the RMT were causing ended up costing a lot of money and headaches.


Why would you do that, it costs more to buy a stolen CC number than to buy the game. You face real life consequences for doing that too.

If you could spent $30 and make $200 are you telling me you wouldn't do it? RMT are no different than you or me, if they can see they can spend some money to make far more they will do it lol CC number theft does happen but it's not going to happen to the levels you think it is on an MMO, not even close. Not for this kind of buisiness (keep in mind that RMT is not illegal, it's totally legit business).

You're thinking that someone would rather pay for CC numbers or steal seperate ones for thousands of accounts than just pay $30 to make hundreds of thousands from gil buyers. It's just silly, people will use the easiest method.
#18 Jan 10 2014 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
Catwho wrote:
It's cute that you thing the RMT are spending their own money to do that.

There is a huge, HUGE black market for stolen credit card numbers. Target was the most recent victim of a breach, with some 40 million account numbers stolen and floating out there between Thanksgiving and late December. The RMT pay someone a buck for a stolen account, and use that to buy the game with. By the time SE gets around to banning them and refunding the money to the credit card account holder, the RMT account has already made a couple thousand dollars.

That's one reason SE put in place their Secure Mastercard and Visa requirements in FFXI some years ago. The charge backs the RMT were causing ended up costing a lot of money and headaches.


Why would you do that, it costs more to buy a stolen CC number than to buy the game. You face real life consequences for doing that too.

If you could spent $30 and make $200 are you telling me you wouldn't do it? RMT are no different than you or me, if they can see they can spend some money to make far more they will do it lol CC number theft does happen but it's not going to happen to the levels you think it is on an MMO, not even close. Not for this kind of buisiness (keep in mind that RMT is not illegal, it's totally legit business).

You're thinking that someone would rather pay for CC numbers or steal seperate ones for thousands of accounts than just pay $30 to make hundreds of thousands from gil buyers. It's just silly, people will use the easiest method.


What makes you think RMT is the only ilicit activity they're into?

Stolen CC's can be used for much more interesting things.
#19 Jan 10 2014 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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There are several things involved here that may are may not be considered RMT:

  • The ones we despise as players - Steal accounts, Spam chats, have bots, have viruses on their websites, and kill the AH prices to entice people to purchase from them. These ones i would see buying CC information
  • The ones that take it serious - For the most part no one notices them, they like high prices on the AH, its makes them more money. They tend to be a "safe" purchase and try to run a legitimate business.
  • Then there are the players that use bots and steal accounts for their own benefit, they should be banned like RMT
  • Those that are lazy and purchase gil, they deserve to have their accounts banned or hacked


All should be banned regardless. The one thing i would like to see is more GM involvement, if i report something i'd like to see some one contact me in chat or show up to see the issue. I hate reporting to only get a generic reply if any and all the people on my blacklist are spammers or bots. Only a few get deleted here and there. Hope they make the amount of people you can blacklist bigger since they aren't taking a strong enough stance on it.
#20 Jan 10 2014 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
preludes wrote:
Catwho wrote:
It's cute that you thing the RMT are spending their own money to do that.

There is a huge, HUGE black market for stolen credit card numbers. Target was the most recent victim of a breach, with some 40 million account numbers stolen and floating out there between Thanksgiving and late December. The RMT pay someone a buck for a stolen account, and use that to buy the game with. By the time SE gets around to banning them and refunding the money to the credit card account holder, the RMT account has already made a couple thousand dollars.

That's one reason SE put in place their Secure Mastercard and Visa requirements in FFXI some years ago. The charge backs the RMT were causing ended up costing a lot of money and headaches.


Why would you do that, it costs more to buy a stolen CC number than to buy the game. You face real life consequences for doing that too.

If you could spent $30 and make $200 are you telling me you wouldn't do it? RMT are no different than you or me, if they can see they can spend some money to make far more they will do it lol CC number theft does happen but it's not going to happen to the levels you think it is on an MMO, not even close. Not for this kind of buisiness (keep in mind that RMT is not illegal, it's totally legit business).

You're thinking that someone would rather pay for CC numbers or steal seperate ones for thousands of accounts than just pay $30 to make hundreds of thousands from gil buyers. It's just silly, people will use the easiest method.


You're not looking at this from a perspective of a business in China, which has fewer oversights and regulations than in the US. Stolen CC numbers are cheap in their respective black markets. You don't buy just one, you buy a list of a thousand for a thousand bucks. 90% of them will be bum, but 10% of them can be used. And those hundred CC accounts can be used with impunity for a couple days, even a week, before the person discovers the fraud and calls their bank. They'll get their money back, but the damage is done, the RMT has 30 days that came with the game for free (since the game itself can't be un-registered), then they have to investigate the account and ban it, which could take another week. That's two weeks to make merry with dozens of accounts off a single credit card.

Visa and Mastercard will investigate the fraud, but the actual results from those investigations rarely pan out. When they do, it makes international news. Last one I heard was the arrest of some thieves in Russia... last year.

Probably the only one in the entire bot operation that has a legit, fully paid account would be the bank. And these are the ones SE really tries to ban because they've got 999 million gil on them, and they want that account to stay active as long as it can - so no stolen CCs and charge backs on that one.




Edited, Jan 10th 2014 1:29pm by Catwho
#21 Jan 10 2014 at 3:27 PM Rating: Default
They buy the game, sell gil and make a big profit from that, nobody in their right mind would break the law when there is no need to.

You can think it's criminal masterminds if you want but the truth is pretty boring and mundane, this isn't mr big it's simple legal farmers making money.

inb4 yakuza in your xiv

The gil farmers buy the game (US and EU gamers do this too btw), sell gil to make a profit and are happy on the investment. The more you buy, the more bots you can setup the more profit you make. Simple.

Square ban them every couple of months to make sure they make money and in turn they make money from the ban waves because they all buy more copies of the game. This isn't new, it's been happening on FFXI and WoW for a decade, it's well known how it works and how both sides profit.

If this hurt Square they wouldn't ban every couple of months, they would ban weekly and IP ban with that, serious hardcore cracking down. Right now they do the bare minimum which makes them more money.

Edited, Jan 10th 2014 6:16pm by preludes
#22 Jan 10 2014 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
nobody in their right mind would break the law when there is no need to


Oh you poor, sweet summer child.
#23 Jan 10 2014 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Quote:
nobody in their right mind would break the law when there is no need to


Oh you poor, sweet summer child.


Yeah that's pretty much the most aggresively ignorant thing I've read in a long time lol
#24 Jan 10 2014 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I still feel sorry for the RMT farmer and bots in game when I see them. Those YouTube videos five years ago got to me. That post almost make it seems like a white collar pyramid scheme now compared to the old way.
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#25 Jan 10 2014 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:


Oh you poor, sweet summer child.



I wish I could rate this up more.
#26 Jan 13 2014 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
preludes wrote:
They buy the game, sell gil and make a big profit from that, nobody in their right mind would break the law when there is no need to.

You can think it's criminal masterminds if you want but the truth is pretty boring and mundane, this isn't mr big it's simple legal farmers making money.

inb4 yakuza in your xiv

The gil farmers buy the game (US and EU gamers do this too btw), sell gil to make a profit and are happy on the investment. The more you buy, the more bots you can setup the more profit you make. Simple.

Square ban them every couple of months to make sure they make money and in turn they make money from the ban waves because they all buy more copies of the game. This isn't new, it's been happening on FFXI and WoW for a decade, it's well known how it works and how both sides profit.

If this hurt Square they wouldn't ban every couple of months, they would ban weekly and IP ban with that, serious hardcore cracking down. Right now they do the bare minimum which makes them more money.

Edited, Jan 10th 2014 6:16pm by preludes


that right there in bold is what they should be doing from the getgo!!!
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