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#52 Jan 07 2014 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Another big problem with Titan through the DF is that most people are trying to beat the fight to get relics for their alts, and they're usually not geared up nearly as well as they'd be on their main jobs. So, you're much more likely to have gimped healers, slow DPS, lower-HP tanks, etc... anything that causes the fight to be more difficult or drawn-out only amplifies every mistake someone makes.
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#53 Jan 07 2014 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with everything you said DamirnSScott, the main reason for me letting my sub run out is due to the feel that SE dosnt care about crafters and materia melders. It took me some time to see that this game isnt for me, all my problems boil down to the whole "games begins at endgame." I spent alot of time crafting and melding each tier of gear for my gladiator for only it to mean nothing because "game starts at endgame." I just wish every level gear mattered why must i beat the game before i get the "hard" content, playing ffxiv feels like im just wasteing my time.


If this is the trends of mmo's look like i wont be playing any more mmo's, i hope one day it changes.
#54 Jan 07 2014 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Jeskradha wrote:
Thayos wrote:

I'm aware this is an online game, so obviously, there will be bits of lag here and there... but Titan is simply a difficult fight, and winning requires a team of eight people to make very few mistakes through a long fight with many moving parts. It's significantly more complex than Garuda HM. I think that's the real problem.



I kind of have to agree with this, lag or no lag, and I have seen people struggle with lag, having 8 people who really know WTF they are doing is the key to this fight.

I ran titan though the DF quite a few times, if I had to guess around 20-30, and out of all of those we only beat it once, and that was with a group that had a tank que as marauder so we technically had an extra DPS vs two tanks.

But the first time I beat it was though a /sh group in mor dhona, and all of the people in that group already had experience.

Honestly, I almost think this shouldn't even be available though the DF, cause it just causes headaches for most people and I would venture to guess most people using the DF for this don't have experience beating it making it even worse.

On top of that, if you think its bad now, at least there is an ilvl requirement, pre 2.1 I would get in DF groups and people would be in full AF with all level 39 accessories with a GC weapon trying to get carried. In one group we had a BLM whose HP was so low he would instantly die to the first tumult's in phase one..

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 2:06pm by Jeskradha



Well no doubt people need to know what they are doing in this fight it aint a easy fight.
The more geared and better people are the easier it will be too..
But that still does not mean it aint harder for others or impossible for some because of lag.
It also doesn't mean someone with lag cant be carried through the fight..

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 2:41pm by Nashred
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#55 Jan 07 2014 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I just can't believe the lag terror until I see it for myself... and I just haven't seen it yet.


You don't remember when they all but removed player hurtboxes? When all players hurtbox is reduced to almost nothing, it's pretty obvious that the game has latency issues.

It's something that I'm sure players can overcome, but they do so at the cost of optimal DPS and positioning. It's not game breaking, unless they just leave it the way it is now and don't actually correct the issue instead of just bandaiding.
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#56 Jan 07 2014 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
If you're having latency issues, you could always try Pingzapper or Battleping

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 2:47pm by IKickYoDog
#57 Jan 07 2014 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
IMFW wrote:
I agree with everything you said DamirnSScott, the main reason for me letting my sub run out is due to the feel that SE dosnt care about crafters and materia melders. It took me some time to see that this game isnt for me, all my problems boil down to the whole "games begins at endgame." I spent alot of time crafting and melding each tier of gear for my gladiator for only it to mean nothing because "game starts at endgame." I just wish every level gear mattered why must i beat the game before i get the "hard" content, playing ffxiv feels like im just wasteing my time.


If this is the trends of mmo's look like i wont be playing any more mmo's, i hope one day it changes.


That's interesting because my experiences have been completely different. I've been able to amass substantial amounts of gil while playing casually, which will help me cut down on the endgame grind substantially (once I get there) since I can buy myself ilvl70+ equipment right from the get-go.

I've also made sure that I experience the game in the best gear available because there's nothing more fun than beating up, tanking and healing things with an optimum gear set. It's not like the levels fly by since after three months I'm still around level 40 at best.

The only thing that's changed is that MMO's no longer force it's players to play the game from the start. They can skip it if they choose to. It's completely up to the player and the sad truth is that you chose to take up the attitude that the game begins at the endgame. The game didn't force it on you.

It's not that I mind people having this attitude but it gets very tiresome when people keep saying it's the game's fault and there's nothing they can do about it. If you can't/won't pace yourself without the game forcing you to, that's not to be blamed on the game.

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 10:51pm by Hyanmen
#58 Jan 07 2014 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Another big problem with Titan through the DF is that most people are trying to beat the fight to get relics for their alts, and they're usually not geared up nearly as well as they'd be on their main jobs. So, you're much more likely to have gimped healers, slow DPS, lower-HP tanks, etc... anything that causes the fight to be more difficult or drawn-out only amplifies every mistake someone makes.



While this does happen without a doubt... Tomes are easier to get and to me allot of people are geared better too.. Ct gear aint hard to get... This was actually brought up by on of our FC people..


Edited, Jan 7th 2014 2:59pm by Nashred
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#59 Jan 07 2014 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
You have to look at the ability's progress bar, and not at the actual ability animation, which goes off after te bar has filled.


I can't see the cast bar because, as a healer, I never have Titan targeted. Is there a way to have Titan and the tank targeted while still dropping heals on all the other people who just can't get out of the way while dropping AOE heals?

If so, that'd be great.
#60 Jan 07 2014 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
LebargeX wrote:
Thayos wrote:
You have to look at the ability's progress bar, and not at the actual ability animation, which goes off after te bar has filled.


I can't see the cast bar because, as a healer, I never have Titan targeted. Is there a way to have Titan and the tank targeted while still dropping heals on all the other people who just can't get out of the way while dropping AOE heals?

If so, that'd be great.


Shift + F?
#61 Jan 07 2014 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Thayos wrote:
You have to look at the ability's progress bar, and not at the actual ability animation, which goes off after te bar has filled.


I can't see the cast bar because, as a healer, I never have Titan targeted. Is there a way to have Titan and the tank targeted while still dropping heals on all the other people who just can't get out of the way while dropping AOE heals?

If so, that'd be great.


Shift + F?


Makes capital F .... lol

Did they add focus targetting to PS3 during 2.1?

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 12:13pm by LebargeX
#62 Jan 07 2014 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
It's also the Focus Target combo
#63 Jan 07 2014 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
Thayos wrote:
You have to look at the ability's progress bar, and not at the actual ability animation, which goes off after te bar has filled.


I can't see the cast bar because, as a healer, I never have Titan targeted. Is there a way to have Titan and the tank targeted while still dropping heals on all the other people who just can't get out of the way while dropping AOE heals?

If so, that'd be great.


Focus target..

Also edit your hud and move it near your party members list so it is easier too see if you are a whm this helps big time.....

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 3:19pm by Nashred
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#64 Jan 07 2014 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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Nashred wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Thayos wrote:
You have to look at the ability's progress bar, and not at the actual ability animation, which goes off after te bar has filled.


I can't see the cast bar because, as a healer, I never have Titan targeted. Is there a way to have Titan and the tank targeted while still dropping heals on all the other people who just can't get out of the way while dropping AOE heals?

If so, that'd be great.


Focus target..

Also edit your hud and move it near your party members list so it is easier too see if you are a whm this helps big time.....

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 3:19pm by Nashred


Ok... Does PS3 have Focus Target? Last time I tried, it wasn't there.
#65 Jan 07 2014 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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LebargeX wrote:
Nashred wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Thayos wrote:
You have to look at the ability's progress bar, and not at the actual ability animation, which goes off after te bar has filled.


I can't see the cast bar because, as a healer, I never have Titan targeted. Is there a way to have Titan and the tank targeted while still dropping heals on all the other people who just can't get out of the way while dropping AOE heals?

If so, that'd be great.


Focus target..

Also edit your hud and move it near your party members list so it is easier too see if you are a whm this helps big time.....

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 3:19pm by Nashred


Ok... Does PS3 have Focus Target? Last time I tried, it wasn't there.


Yes this was added in patch 2.1

I think you can macro it, an I know for sure that it can be done by pressing square in your target. Along with the option to mark your target you should now see focus target as well.
#66 Jan 07 2014 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I just can't believe the lag terror until I see it for myself... and I just haven't seen it yet.

Just two days ago, my FC did several Titan runs, and we got past the heart stage all but once. We died because it was our healer's first time to the fight, and she just wasn't yet able to move and cure me fast enough (I was tanking). But we have people who live all over the place, and none of us had lag issues, at all... and it had been 20 or so days since the patch?

I don't hear anyone in my FC ever complaining about lag in Titan, either... and people in my FC do it pretty regularly as they help others and level up new jobs.

I'm aware this is an online game, so obviously, there will be bits of lag here and there... but Titan is simply a difficult fight, and winning requires a team of eight people to make very few mistakes through a long fight with many moving parts. It's significantly more complex than Garuda HM. I think that's the real problem.


I make stupid mistakes all the time, and know when I didnt move fast enough, but I have experienced and seen videos where folks are clearly out of the aoe with time to spare and are still hit. Granted I die a lot and will always admit my idiocy when it occurs. But lag happens. I have had my fair share of deaths both ways. I attribute it to the fact I live in BFE and play on a PS3 but I have seen WAAAY worse on vids (where the landslides and plumes literally pop out of nowhere on the guy). Latency is a huge issue for people with bad connections, on PS3s, playing from the middle of nowhere, at peak hours.

I am one of those folks. But you devise little tricks to help you along the way. First off, we have to turn off ALL special effects, including our own. I have ran so long without I forgot what Meteor and Flare look like. On titan ex (plumes and to a lesser degree the penta landslides) and on ADS directional line aoe (for me the worst offender) I have to cast a spell immediately when I am clear of aoe or do a 90 degree turn, because both of those events (the turn more reliable than the spell cast) will manually force the server to update your position instantly, and it will recognize you are not in the aoe's effect and you will not get hit. If you do not do this, and are within a tick (games internal time equivalent) from the aoe, and you suffer from the latency, the game's servers may still believe that you are in the aoe circle (or line) and hit you anyway.

Bottom line, it sucks. Somedays I wish I could play on a PC with a good connection, because you guys would believe all the extra obstacles I have to overcome.


Edited, Jan 7th 2014 4:12pm by Valkayree
#67 Jan 07 2014 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a player that has chosen not join a FC, I PUG all of my stuff. Which means it took me more fights than I care to think about to finally get my Gae Bolg. I can say with full confidence that lag most definitely plays a factor in that fight. I have a very solid internet connection and a PC that is more than capable of playing the game on max settings, so hardware on my end isn't an issue. I have personally been hit by those stupid puddles when on my screen I'm clearly outside the circle. After awhile, I just started to keep running until the damn thing goes off to make sure that I didn't get hit. One time, during a particularly lagging Saturday evening attempt, I even managed get killed by a bomb that hadn't even exploded yet on my screen. Anyone that hasn't seen or doesn't think that lag plays a part in that fight isn't paying attention.
#68 Jan 07 2014 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Lag is hardly an issue in these fights. In all the times I've ever done Titan, I've only heard one or two people ever complain about lag being the reason for a death since the massive server expansions last fall... that includes PUGs. People die because they're not used to the mechanics, they don't start moving fast enough, they don't have good enough gear, the healer didn't cure in time, etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, but people who struggle THAT MUCH with this fight really need to just work on their dodging skills. SE's servers aren't keeping you from winning.

Seriously... this is common sense.. if the lag were as bad as some people claim it is, then you wouldn't have groups of people who are able to sell wins like clockwork. They'd always be losing, because the lag would never let them win.

All you need is seven other people who know what they're doing... and, of course, you must know what you're doing, too.

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 3:55pm by Thayos
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#69 Jan 07 2014 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I just can't believe the lag terror until I see it for myself... and I just haven't seen it yet.

[...] (I was tanking).


Well, there's the explanation for your stance. Tank has the easiest goddamn role on Titan and doesn't even have to dodge anything, so of course you're not going to notice any lag problems.

Also, just because there are people who don't lag and are able to sell Titan wins doesn't mean everyone has the same kind of connection.
#70 Jan 07 2014 at 6:16 PM Rating: Excellent
I'll also add that as a healer, I don't keep my target on the boss. I keep my target on the tank. The second it takes me to switch from the boss to the tank after a bad hit could be a second in which the tank dies.

I might have to adjust that strategy for Titan though.
#71 Jan 07 2014 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Lag is hardly an issue in these fights. In all the times I've ever done Titan, I've only heard one or two people ever complain about lag being the reason for a death since the massive server expansions last fall... that includes PUGs. People die because they're not used to the mechanics, they don't start moving fast enough, they don't have good enough gear, the healer didn't cure in time, etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, but people who struggle THAT MUCH with this fight really need to just work on their dodging skills. SE's servers aren't keeping you from winning.

Seriously... this is common sense.. if the lag were as bad as some people claim it is, then you wouldn't have groups of people who are able to sell wins like clockwork. They'd always be losing, because the lag would never let them win.

All you need is seven other people who know what they're doing... and, of course, you must know what you're doing, too.


It could also be that people who take gaming seriously enough to be flawless victors at things like the Titan HM fight pay for excellent internet connections to avoid lag.

Now that casual players are finally arriving, lag on an average broadband line could actually pose a problem.
#72 Jan 07 2014 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
My home broadband isn't even business class... it's like the middle-tier residential. I'm cheap like that. It's not dialup, but it's not a top-end connection, either.

I've done Titan as the meleeing off-tank, too, so I'm plenty familiar with both sides of the battle.

And, like I said, in my talkative FC, nobody has ever blamed lag for a death.
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#73 Jan 07 2014 at 6:54 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Torrence wrote:
So, the response to someone who is struggling overcoming content that sounds somewhat overtuned is to go and play another job? Sounds a lot like old FFXI comments. I thought we left those attitudes behind.

Has Yoshi-P said anything about folks struggling with Titan?



What content is overtuned? I don't mean to sound elitist but I found most of the content easy. Coil Turn 4 is the first time I was actually overwhelmed.

Titan's problem is lag. If you have lag, you cannot beat him. It took me about 4 tries at each phase to never, ever get hit by anything, ever. But it might be different for me since I play mostly twitch fps games and action RPGs like Demon's Souls where dodging is everything.


Only set of content I found overtuned was Pharos (for what it drops), Titan Extreme (it's not terribly difficult, but it's well overtuned for the same mechanics for the most part as hard (landslide, weight and bombs just being stacked isnt a challenge.) and Garuda extreme. She and her twins does way too much damage to the point people refuse to bring Melee at times because of the risk of them being one shotted trying to even touch the sister or garuda.
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#74 Jan 07 2014 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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With titan, simply learn the fight, plums always hit outside radius same stuff happens in Ultima. The trick is you always know when plums are coming it's no surprise so stop what you are doing and run. 90% of the people dying to weight are people trying to finish that one last combo or spell before they run get hit and say Damn what terrible lag. You do know when that spell or combo goes off as far as the server is concerned you are still at that spot even if on your screen you are not.
#75 Jan 07 2014 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
I'll also add that as a healer, I don't keep my target on the boss. I keep my target on the tank. The second it takes me to switch from the boss to the tank after a bad hit could be a second in which the tank dies.

I might have to adjust that strategy for Titan though.


Use focus target and put it by your partys health bars. Click on the boss and use focus target and it will put its stats and health bar up.... But it lags too... It is a graphic animation just like the actual puddle.


To those others.
Latency it the same as ping.. You can have little bandwidth and have low latency or lots of bandwidth and high latency.. The distance traveled is a big part of latency. ( the farther you live from the server the higher the latency). The routers, and other equipment can cause latency (some equipment it better than others), To small of bandwidth, isp slow equipment, where your internet enters the backbone which is not as important as it used to be,,,

Edited, Jan 7th 2014 9:05pm by Nashred
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#76 Jan 07 2014 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Feh, too much "lag doesn't exist!" going on here. Reminds me way too much about people who posture in games like Diablo where people who like Hardcore mode love to claim lag is never a factor and people who die and opt to stay away from that mode just plain suck at the game. No.

The internet is a big place comprised of lots of little parts that simply aren't created equal. The further you are from SE's servers, the more of these parts we're forced to hop through. That alone increases latency, but then conditions surrounding the locations can also be a factor. Is it 9pm and suddenly everyone wants to stream on Netflix? Congestion ahoy. Bad weather or an accident affect some lines? Enjoy your packet loss or forced rerouting. DNS servers of your ISP ****? They might not even HAVE the DNS data for a specified location or take a needlessly roundabout path to get to it.

Lag exists on the internet. Accept it. You can not predict it. There is very little you can do to control it. Very rarely is it the user's fault. If you don't have it, rejoice. Don't scorn those that do.
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