Warning: long story/rant lol.
So I see a shout for Ultima HM and decide I wanna go for it. (Did a Duty Finder last night and made it 3 times to countdown, but just couldn't finish.) I hop in and get a friendly party chat message from a member basically saying all I needed to do was take some damage for the team (sounding like they had done this before easily). We fill last spot with a war and we head in. Me and the other tank make our arrangements and agree on swithching @3 stacks blah, blah, blah and we go for it. Get into the fray and Ifrit dash and laser shows seem to be a bit of trouble for healers and one goes down, then gets raised and then the battle starts getting a bit shakey cause they are battling to keep everyone who is taking damage from not dodging alive along with keeping tanks up at the laser show. Defractive laser does off, and needless to say , due to low health cause mages were dodging lasers and healing sparsely, the tank at the time eats it and it proves to much for rest of team and we wipe.
@ restart, the SMN asks "What's going on? I've never seen a tank take so much damage in this fight."
... I stared at my screen for a min and simply said "defractive laser is a pain, if we tanks don't have HP replenished, it can take us out."
Next two rounds, same story, both me and other tank working hard with cooldowns, and switching like pros, but others are taking damage from mechanics and healers are going down from it.
SMN: "are you taking damage from lasers??" He asks me.
... I take a deep breath and as I reply "I'm using every cooldown I have..." The other tank chimes in to explain defractive laser again.
SMN says that we should exit so he can DPS in his SCH and help keep us alive.
After another failed attempt, we exit and I explain that I had to head out to head over to my sisters.
A melee sends out a "good" in chat while SMN says happily " Ok, we'll replace, np!" And was promptly kicked lol.
I held my peace, but I really wanted to blast the SMN and the one making the snarky "good" comment for blaming us tanks for losses, when both healers and other DPS in the group couldn't avoid mechanics.
I sent a tell to the other tank and wished him GL because I knew he'd need it. I'm good now, but I must admit, those comments from the mouthy SMN just kinda ruffled my feathers a bit. Funny how he died a few times as well and turned a blind eye to his healer buddies deaths to place blame for wipes on us tanks.
Anyway, just thought I'd share/rant a bit of this story.
Edited, Dec 29th 2013 1:10am by jayfly
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- Y U No live PLD!? An Ultima HM story.
Y U No live PLD!? An Ultima HM story.Follow
ultima HM is really a fight about the healers. if your healers cant keep up with the damage or don't know when to heal and dodge simultaneously, things go downhill real fast. Besides dodging that everyone has to do, the tank job is nothing special nor difficult. Neither is the DPS's job. Because of all the dodging that is needed here its up to the healers to make sure the tanks are topped off. Of course this I harder the more people get hit with stuff.
The usually perpetrator of getting smacked is erruptions and ifrit dashes in the first half. it seems people can never figure out where ifrit is dashing from but this can be easily solved by proper camera placement. if your a melee have your camera facing behind ultima. since its tanked on the side you should be able to see the whole arena. for casters, stay closer to one of the sides so you have a view of the arena. but stay in medica range, it's not the healers jobs to hunt you down.
as for the last half when the lasers spawn, the first center spawns are not that big of a deal. medica the party and single target the tank. melees should be able to dodge lasers while hitting them. casters is a little more challenging since you have to stop to cast, but its not that big of a deal if you get hit with a laser or two since the healers should be medica'ing to offset damage.
for the second large circle, fight them until the meteors are coming in and stack in the middle. spam medica and just eat the damage until the meteors are done. then just continue killing adds.
for the orbs: first set as a MT I like to pop sentinel and eat an orb alone. it usually takes half my HP away but you should be topped off always when this is happening. the OT should go pop the other one. for the second set, MT doesn't hit any of them. OT needs to pop sentinel or rampart and eat 1 bomb then go join everyone else in the middle and pop the rest of the bombs as a team. for the last set, use the TANK LB while the orbs are mid way cast. everyone including the MT can go in the middle and pop those suckers. once that's done, unless your DPS is really behind you should win right after this.
to check if your DPS is kinda slow, you should have ifrit dead by the end of the second set of erruptions. if ifrit dashes more than once during the fight, you may not have the DPS to kill it in time, or so goes my experiences.
using the above strategy my FC wins all the time.
The usually perpetrator of getting smacked is erruptions and ifrit dashes in the first half. it seems people can never figure out where ifrit is dashing from but this can be easily solved by proper camera placement. if your a melee have your camera facing behind ultima. since its tanked on the side you should be able to see the whole arena. for casters, stay closer to one of the sides so you have a view of the arena. but stay in medica range, it's not the healers jobs to hunt you down.
as for the last half when the lasers spawn, the first center spawns are not that big of a deal. medica the party and single target the tank. melees should be able to dodge lasers while hitting them. casters is a little more challenging since you have to stop to cast, but its not that big of a deal if you get hit with a laser or two since the healers should be medica'ing to offset damage.
for the second large circle, fight them until the meteors are coming in and stack in the middle. spam medica and just eat the damage until the meteors are done. then just continue killing adds.
for the orbs: first set as a MT I like to pop sentinel and eat an orb alone. it usually takes half my HP away but you should be topped off always when this is happening. the OT should go pop the other one. for the second set, MT doesn't hit any of them. OT needs to pop sentinel or rampart and eat 1 bomb then go join everyone else in the middle and pop the rest of the bombs as a team. for the last set, use the TANK LB while the orbs are mid way cast. everyone including the MT can go in the middle and pop those suckers. once that's done, unless your DPS is really behind you should win right after this.
to check if your DPS is kinda slow, you should have ifrit dead by the end of the second set of erruptions. if ifrit dashes more than once during the fight, you may not have the DPS to kill it in time, or so goes my experiences.
using the above strategy my FC wins all the time.
Having healed this fight in DF, I know how much of a pain defractive is. If I get a tank with ~6k HP in Ultima, he will die if I do not keep him near full HP with an adloquium after the Ifrit phase. If I don't have lustrate up during the laser phase and the WHM doesn't have benediction, the tank often dies. It's quite rough.
However, even if a tank dies, you have PLENTY of time to get the dead tank up before the other one goes kaboom. It's quite alarming that this SMN didn't make use of swiftcast + res on one or both of you. Does he actually play his SCH in earnest? Did he reset his stats before he went in with his SCH?
I hate to say this as a player who plays DPS as his main job, but pure DPS will never understand things like this. Bad DPS are always too focused on the boss' HP or their own cooldowns to realize what is happening in the party. Good DPS will always make sure to watch the healer MP and tank HP to know when they need to use their cooldowns like virus and eye for an eye WHILE maintaining their rotation and keeping an eye on their cooldowns.
One thing to note, outside of defraction laser, is that the orbs are actually considered magic damage. I see many tanks pop foresight on these and expect it to mitigate damage. If you pop CDs like Keys suggested, you will be able to eat orbs just fine.
I agree with Keys: this fight is a huge healer check. One of many, actually, implemented with this patch.
Edited, Dec 29th 2013 3:43pm by HitomeOfBismarck
However, even if a tank dies, you have PLENTY of time to get the dead tank up before the other one goes kaboom. It's quite alarming that this SMN didn't make use of swiftcast + res on one or both of you. Does he actually play his SCH in earnest? Did he reset his stats before he went in with his SCH?
I hate to say this as a player who plays DPS as his main job, but pure DPS will never understand things like this. Bad DPS are always too focused on the boss' HP or their own cooldowns to realize what is happening in the party. Good DPS will always make sure to watch the healer MP and tank HP to know when they need to use their cooldowns like virus and eye for an eye WHILE maintaining their rotation and keeping an eye on their cooldowns.
One thing to note, outside of defraction laser, is that the orbs are actually considered magic damage. I see many tanks pop foresight on these and expect it to mitigate damage. If you pop CDs like Keys suggested, you will be able to eat orbs just fine.
I agree with Keys: this fight is a huge healer check. One of many, actually, implemented with this patch.
Edited, Dec 29th 2013 3:43pm by HitomeOfBismarck
I had a similar experience, it was a PF group, and one of the other mnks was in full i90 minus his weapon, which was the i95. I ask 'are we using tank lb for 3rd set of orbs' and the cocky reply i got was 'what third set of orbs, it will be dead long before than with me here.
Get into the fight, and mr i95 (im only i78 avg) cant dodge anything and ends up dead all 3 attempts at least 3 times per fight to the point that healers stop raising him.
Needless to say, while alive his DD was pwning me, but total dmg, an i78 mnk can do about 100x as much as a dead Coil mnk who cant dodge.
Get into the fight, and mr i95 (im only i78 avg) cant dodge anything and ends up dead all 3 attempts at least 3 times per fight to the point that healers stop raising him.
Needless to say, while alive his DD was pwning me, but total dmg, an i78 mnk can do about 100x as much as a dead Coil mnk who cant dodge.
Honestly, this fight can be summed up by:
Virus(Fever)...Virus...Virus...Virus.
Dodge, Dodge, Dodge, Dodge.
AoE Heal.
Lustrate.
The main problem with tanks is the ones who don't know how to use their defensive CDs properly or forget their particular buff..(Oath for example.) Honestly, Virus makes it so even your squishy mage *** can survive a defraction laser and those 1500+ Tank Purges? Yeah those get gimped down to 900-1100 at best, it's the one thing I noticed almost no SMN or SCH plants (unless it's my SCH) and while it lasts a short time and has a long CD before you can reuse it, using it at the right time is just..so crucial to damage mitigation.
Also DPS that die and get hit by everything makes healing more of a chore than it needs to be. This fight is as I call, an idiot check because you can't blame lag on not seeing Ifrit getting ready to run up your ***, or know how to rotate eruptions so you don't drag them everywhere on the field ...onto tanks AND your healers.
Edited, Dec 29th 2013 8:24am by Theonehio
Virus(Fever)...Virus...Virus...Virus.
Dodge, Dodge, Dodge, Dodge.
AoE Heal.
Lustrate.
The main problem with tanks is the ones who don't know how to use their defensive CDs properly or forget their particular buff..(Oath for example.) Honestly, Virus makes it so even your squishy mage *** can survive a defraction laser and those 1500+ Tank Purges? Yeah those get gimped down to 900-1100 at best, it's the one thing I noticed almost no SMN or SCH plants (unless it's my SCH) and while it lasts a short time and has a long CD before you can reuse it, using it at the right time is just..so crucial to damage mitigation.
Also DPS that die and get hit by everything makes healing more of a chore than it needs to be. This fight is as I call, an idiot check because you can't blame lag on not seeing Ifrit getting ready to run up your ***, or know how to rotate eruptions so you don't drag them everywhere on the field ...onto tanks AND your healers.
Edited, Dec 29th 2013 8:24am by Theonehio
don't forget they did nerf virus. it's not so much that people forget to use it now (of course there are those who do), but the fact that you can't virus again for 60 seconds after it ends. so you really have to plan ahead when you want to use it.
I've been running Ultima Quite a bit as WHM. At this point, I can win, even carry, most fights unless DPS just isn't there.
First off WHM should do some DD in the first phase. Maybe you have a party with Epic DD. I generally do not. Not in DF certainly. The WHM DD is significant. And Garuda Phase 1 is simple to solo heal. Even though the phases are based on health %, after getting hit by Ultima (Hard Timer) a few times, I just started getting a few licks in the fist phase which eliminated the runs where we lose at 2% health.
The tricks I use are:
1.) Pre-casting Medica II / Medica during Tank purge.
2.) Keep Regen on tank AND off-tank at all times. (They will tank-swap, so apply x2 regen whenever you have a chance. You can do this while dodging!)
3.) We generally have the whole party positioned on the left side of the room. This saves a great deal of running to get heals in range.
Here's the important one:
4.) Cast Medica in between bits. Dodge, Medica, dodge, Medica, dodge, Medica. This shouldn't be necessary if your party is dodging. But they usually are not 100%. Stay close enough to the tanks that the Medica will hit them. Cure II instead if a tank gets low (apply those tank regens before this phase starts!!)
And finally, this one you learn the hard way:
5.) In between the two bits phases, after tank Purges you will get this ungodly single target damage on the tank (is the the move you are referring to?) The tank purge tricks you into casting an AoE heal on the party when you really need to be pre-casting Cure II.
Hey guys did you hear this new strat?
So instead of Tank LB3 for the third set of bombs, someone suggested having the party just run and suicide on all the bombs, followed by a Healer LB3 (the Healer stand on the outer edge taking no bomb damage.) This really is just a tad easier, ibecause you don't have to time the Tank LB3 or wait to make sure it activated. This way, you have the full 3 seconds to clear bombs.
Now, Ultima, you just need to start dropping things I need. Thanks!
Edited, Dec 30th 2013 9:53am by Gnu
First off WHM should do some DD in the first phase. Maybe you have a party with Epic DD. I generally do not. Not in DF certainly. The WHM DD is significant. And Garuda Phase 1 is simple to solo heal. Even though the phases are based on health %, after getting hit by Ultima (Hard Timer) a few times, I just started getting a few licks in the fist phase which eliminated the runs where we lose at 2% health.
The tricks I use are:
1.) Pre-casting Medica II / Medica during Tank purge.
2.) Keep Regen on tank AND off-tank at all times. (They will tank-swap, so apply x2 regen whenever you have a chance. You can do this while dodging!)
3.) We generally have the whole party positioned on the left side of the room. This saves a great deal of running to get heals in range.
Here's the important one:
4.) Cast Medica in between bits. Dodge, Medica, dodge, Medica, dodge, Medica. This shouldn't be necessary if your party is dodging. But they usually are not 100%. Stay close enough to the tanks that the Medica will hit them. Cure II instead if a tank gets low (apply those tank regens before this phase starts!!)
And finally, this one you learn the hard way:
5.) In between the two bits phases, after tank Purges you will get this ungodly single target damage on the tank (is the the move you are referring to?) The tank purge tricks you into casting an AoE heal on the party when you really need to be pre-casting Cure II.
Hey guys did you hear this new strat?
So instead of Tank LB3 for the third set of bombs, someone suggested having the party just run and suicide on all the bombs, followed by a Healer LB3 (the Healer stand on the outer edge taking no bomb damage.) This really is just a tad easier, ibecause you don't have to time the Tank LB3 or wait to make sure it activated. This way, you have the full 3 seconds to clear bombs.
Now, Ultima, you just need to start dropping things I need. Thanks!
Edited, Dec 30th 2013 9:53am by Gnu
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