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Is there a better way to manage TP for DRG?

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Is there a better way to manage TP for DRG?Follow

#1 Dec 24 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good

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I run out of TP pretty quickly when these groups expect to just AoE everything in WP now...

I use my Invigorate ability to get back 600 TP but it's not up every time either... maybe half the time.

I pop Blood for Blood and Internal Release at the start so all I need to do is spam AoE for max damage...

But I hate running out of TP then I'm the one lagging behind on damage when the BLM has an unlimited supply of MP and the BRD seems to get TP faster then me...

Is there something I'm missing? How do Dragoons manage TP in AoE burn parties?

I use Doom Spike instead of Ring of Thorns in case you were wondering - which should do more damage and help burn mobs faster... and thus save TP.

But I still am always the first to run out of TP... any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! Smiley: grin

#2 Dec 24 2013 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good

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Heavy Thrust > internal release > ring of thorns > b4b > doom spike spam (fit one AoE jump in here before buffs wear)

groups should die before you run out of tp, if they dont then one DD just needs better gear before speed running.

#3 Dec 24 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good

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Finuve wrote:

Heavy Thrust > internal release > ring of thorns > b4b > doom spike spam (fit one AoE jump in here before buffs wear)

groups should die before you run out of tp, if they dont then one DD just needs better gear before speed running.

Yeah that's the thing, I'm not trying to speed run... 20 minute runs are fine by me... a lot more fun typically as I like talking to people too.

Tanks will typically pull 2-3 groups of mobs at a time now because they have the gear to do it... so I'm forced to AoE spam in order to keep up...

Why did you put Ring of Thorns in first just out of curiosity?

I have been avoiding it because it's lower damage then Doom Spike.

Also the Dragonfire Dive is the AoE jump move, do you pair that with Power Surge in a macro? Just curious because I hadn't been doing it at all, so this will hopefully add some nice damage for me...

Thanks!

#4 Dec 24 2013 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent

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I'm not trying to sound like an **** when I say this but if this is a struggle either you or the other DPS in the party doesn't have good enough gear to SR. I found at item level 70 I was out of TP all the time before mobs were done...but now I'm item level 85 and I'm never out of TP (with invigorate)

A lot of times Dragoons get blamed for slow WP's because people assume if the mobs aren't dying fast enough its always the melee DPS' fault...but many times after a quick party chat it's discovered that the brd or blm has never done a SR before or has lvl 35 accessories and only spams Ice because and I quote "I'm an Ice mage bra"

Yeah.

#5 Dec 24 2013 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good

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Power Surge does not affect Dragonfire Dive, only Jump and Spineshatter Dive.

I run 2 different methods for WP and AOE stuff. First off, here's a link from the official forums on DRG rotations: Link

Here is the summary of that section:

Ayvar wrote:

So over short duration AE phases Doomspike will do a lot more damage, but cost all of your TP after 30s. HT-RoT will do less damage over a short period, but will allow you to continue AEing for twice as long, and will do more damage than Doomspike over a longer period, but only if there are 6 or less mobs. If you want short duration AE damage, but are looking to reserve your TP then just use HT-RoT spam. Remember to switch HT targets while you AE, you want to make sure your HTs are always hitting the highest health mobs to ensure the damage is spread correctly. Also, the number of mobs you can fit into each AE (circle vs. line) will also help determine which one you decide to use.

The other method I use is to simply single target mobs while the ranged DPS AOE's, trying to keep them all near level HP. If I have a geared BRD, I'l rotate some Disembowel combos, if it's a BLM or SMN I will run through my Full Thrust combo.

Edited, Dec 24th 2013 10:21am by IKickYoDog

#6 Dec 24 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent

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IKickYoDog wrote:

Power Surge does not affect Dragonfire Dive, only Jump and Spineshatter Dive.

I run 2 different methods for WP and AOE stuff. First off, here's an excerpt from the official forums on DRG rotations: Link

Here is the summary of that section:

Ayvar wrote:

So over short duration AE phases Doomspike will do a lot more damage, but cost all of your TP after 30s. HT-RoT will do less damage over a short period, but will allow you to continue AEing for twice as long, and will do more damage than Doomspike over a longer period, but only if there are 6 or less mobs. If you want short duration AE damage, but are looking to reserve your TP then just use HT-RoT spam. Remember to switch HT targets while you AE, you want to make sure your HTs are always hitting the highest health mobs to ensure the damage is spread correctly. Also, the number of mobs you can fit into each AE (circle vs. line) will also help determine which one you decide to use.

The other method I use is to simply single target mobs while the ranged DPS AOE's, trying to keep them all near level HP. If I have a geared BRD, I'l rotate some Disembowel combos, if it's a BLM or SMN I will run through my Full Thrust combo.

I basically do the same thing...usually I use doomspike if I can easily hit all the mobs doing that but will use RoT if I can't. My biggest gripe with Drg is that dragonfire dive has so long of a cool down...its my fav move.

#7 Dec 24 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good

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TheAnf wrote:

IKickYoDog wrote:

Power Surge does not affect Dragonfire Dive, only Jump and Spineshatter Dive.

I run 2 different methods for WP and AOE stuff. First off, here's an excerpt from the official forums on DRG rotations: Link

Here is the summary of that section:

Ayvar wrote:

So over short duration AE phases Doomspike will do a lot more damage, but cost all of your TP after 30s. HT-RoT will do less damage over a short period, but will allow you to continue AEing for twice as long, and will do more damage than Doomspike over a longer period, but only if there are 6 or less mobs. If you want short duration AE damage, but are looking to reserve your TP then just use HT-RoT spam. Remember to switch HT targets while you AE, you want to make sure your HTs are always hitting the highest health mobs to ensure the damage is spread correctly. Also, the number of mobs you can fit into each AE (circle vs. line) will also help determine which one you decide to use.

The other method I use is to simply single target mobs while the ranged DPS AOE's, trying to keep them all near level HP. If I have a geared BRD, I'l rotate some Disembowel combos, if it's a BLM or SMN I will run through my Full Thrust combo.

I basically do the same thing...usually I use doomspike if I can easily hit all the mobs doing that but will use RoT if I can't. My biggest gripe with Drg is that dragonfire dive has so long of a cool down...its my fav move.

Dragonfire Dive is definitely the epic move I was hoping for with DRG. It's too bad that, while good filler DPS between GCD's, regular jump is kind of lackluster.

#8 Dec 26 2013 at 3:01 AM Rating: Decent

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For my drg I don't bother with aoe. I simply just push out as much single target damages as I can while the other DPS aoes. I find that to keep all my runs all under 20 out close to that Mark. I just find spamming aoes on drg is just inefficient.

#9 Dec 26 2013 at 3:01 AM Rating: Decent

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Double post

Edited, Dec 26th 2013 4:07am by domice

#10 Dec 26 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent

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Honestly its like others have said, it is most likely a gear issue.

With a full party of i70s you can 'sr' but chances are the tank will die occasionally, one dd will run out of tp occasionally etc.

People dont realize that primary stat (AKA str for drg) increases from i80/90 gear are as important. It may not be 1:1 when it comes to weapon dmg, but a drg in full i90 left side will facemelt an i70 drg.

Once your pld starts breaking 6k hp (or un definanced war), and your other dd start having closer to 460 primary stat, WP sr become way way way more reliable.

That being said, ditch WP, do HM Hard mode, its a ton more fun still about 20 min runs, and still a blast.

Copperbell Mines HM is fun too but its a bit more mechanic rich and requires a bit more player skill but its just as short/easy.

Edited, Dec 26th 2013 8:13am by dustinfoley

#11 Dec 26 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good

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dustinfoley wrote:

Honestly its like others have said, it is most likely a gear issue.

With a full party of i70s you can 'sr' but chances are the tank will die occasionally, one dd will run out of tp occasionally etc.

People dont realize that primary stat (AKA str for drg) increases from i80/90 gear are as important. It may not be 1:1 when it comes to weapon dmg, but a drg in full i90 left side will facemelt an i70 drg.

Once your pld starts breaking 6k hp (or un definanced war), and your other dd start having closer to 460 primary stat, WP sr become way way way more reliable.

That being said, ditch WP, do HM Hard mode, its a ton more fun still about 20 min runs, and still a blast.

Copperbell Mines HM is fun too but its a bit more mechanic rich and requires a bit more player skill but its just as short/easy.

Edited, Dec 26th 2013 8:13am by dustinfoley

I just hit i73 so I have some gear already... but I just run out of TP before the AoE is done... I actually changed out my AoE move from Doom Spike to Ring of Thorns... it's more TP efficient but does less damage so I am no the idiot who always runs out of TP first. Who knows which one has a better DPS I just hate sitting there not being able to do anything because I'm out of TP.

But yeah I will switch to those two dungeons anyways since I'm farming for Myth now more then Philosophy... I only need to buy the item for my relic with 900 philosophy (I have over 1k saved...)

Edited, Dec 26th 2013 2:58pm by Hairspray

#13 Dec 26 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good

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This doesn't solve your tp problem but unlock CT if you haven't. I just started today and I think the rewards are better than wp if you're not going to sr.

#14 Dec 27 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good

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godagun wrote:

This doesn't solve your tp problem but unlock CT if you haven't. I just started today and I think the rewards are better than wp if you're not going to sr.

Yeah I did that and got Onion Hands my first run... pretty awesome little upgrade from Darklight.

#15 Dec 27 2013 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good

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Unless you specifically join a SR WP then just do your best.... ill do all I can to get stuff done fast and have never had an issue with ppl getting mad at me for doing the best I can.. ppl shouldn't expect more than that

#16 Dec 27 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good

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JeremyPD55 wrote:

Unless you specifically join a SR WP then just do your best.... ill do all I can to get stuff done fast and have never had an issue with ppl getting mad at me for doing the best I can.. ppl shouldn't expect more than that

Yup because you make up for it on the bosses

#17 Dec 27 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good

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TheAnf wrote:

I I quote "I'm an Ice mage bra"

Best part of the thread, LMAO.

Side Note: I basically hit the floor when I saw they gave WHM Blizzard II, only to come back to reality when I realized it does NOT give WHM Umbral.

@ Hairspray:
ilvl73, nice! You are moving up in the world. You saw this, yes?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/79042-Dragoons-A-Rotation-Reborn

Even though the rotation listed in this link is a bit excessive (not many mobs last for 27+ moves), there are some general concept things to be learned if you read the whole post. The second post goes into AoE.

#18 Dec 27 2013 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good

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Gnu wrote:

TheAnf wrote:

I I quote "I'm an Ice mage bra"

Best part of the thread, LMAO.

Side Note: I basically hit the floor when I saw they gave WHM Blizzard II, only to come back to reality when I realized it does NOT give WHM Umbral.

@ Hairspray:
ilvl73, nice! You are moving up in the world. You saw this, yes?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/79042-Dragoons-A-Rotation-Reborn

Even though the rotation listed in this link is a bit excessive (not many mobs last for 27+ moves), there are some general concept things to be learned if you read the whole post. The second post goes into AoE.

Yeah that's the bible of dragoon rotation... I know it well and created all of my macros based on the testing done there...

This thread was mainly about managing TP when doing AoE damage on trash mobs in dungeons....

It seems like every group pulls anywhere from 2-5 groups of mobs at the same time now... so 6-15 mobs total... depending on the situation... and then expect you to dps them down before the tank dies...

And I was spamming Doom Spikes, which does the most AoE damage, but I was running out of TP too fast... I have since changed Doom Spikes to Ring of Thorns and am no longer running out of TP as much. So problem solved.

Thanks!

Edited, Dec 27th 2013 1:57pm by Hairspray

Edited, Dec 27th 2013 1:58pm by Hairspray

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