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New Players and Server BalanceFollow

#1 Jan 29 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Hello all, I know nobody really knows the answer to this question but I wanted to float the idea around and see what peoples opinions are. So we know that old players will not be able to change servers and that new players will be given the option to join a new server with new people or join an older server with established players. I think alot of newer players will choose to be in a fresh server so as not to be behind everyone else, but perhaps some will choose otherwise.

Do you think Square should give some type of small incentive to those who join older servers? The main reason I ask is because I remember my server being very low population wise and I am curious as to how 2.0 will help fix that if many of the newer players will opt to be on new servers. I dont have nearly as much accomplished as many of the other players, just 2 level 50s with the AF gear, 30 something Alchemy and some lower jobs, so I am still considering whether or not to start over myself, though im leaning towards not doing so. My main concern though is how they will revive older servers low populations when, atleast for me, I would rather join a newer server if Im just joining rather than an older one and feel like Im left behind. Opinions?
#2 Jan 29 2013 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think server population during 1.0 can't be counted on, I imagine those who left and want to try the game again will try it again with their existing characters. That could be wishful thinking, but in my own circle of friends at least 10 people will come back who stopped playing before the game's subscription started, so there will be 10 more people on our server that weren't there for quite a while during 1.0.

I can't think of an incentive that wouldn't have those on new servers screaming their heads off to be honest.
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#3 Jan 29 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't be surprised if the old servers were further collapsed and combined before 2.0 is officially released.
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#4 Jan 29 2013 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
catwho wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the old servers were further collapsed and combined before 2.0 is officially released.


As long as you over-achievers stay off my fresh server, I iz happy panda! Smiley: grin

EDIT: ^I know old chars can't join new server, was just being goofy. I'd totally be down to see some of y'all in game on some new characters.

Edited, Jan 29th 2013 7:05pm by IKickYoDog
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#5 Jan 29 2013 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
catwho wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the old servers were further collapsed and combined before 2.0 is officially released.


As long as you over-achievers stay off my fresh server, I iz happy panda! Smiley: grin

EDIT: ^I know old chars can't join new server, was just being goofy. I'd totally be down to see some of y'all in game on some new characters.

Edited, Jan 29th 2013 7:05pm by IKickYoDog


Actually old players HAVE to be allowed to join new servers, otherwise their self-segregating (er.... lag reducing) global servers are for naught. Me personally, I'm going wherever my friends decide to go. I'd like to stay on Durandal, honestly I'd like to stay on a server that has a good global population since I move around the globe alot... but I'm going to go where my friends are, and if they choose a US based server, then so be it.
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#6 Jan 29 2013 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
Perrin wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
catwho wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the old servers were further collapsed and combined before 2.0 is officially released.


As long as you over-achievers stay off my fresh server, I iz happy panda! Smiley: grin

EDIT: ^I know old chars can't join new server, was just being goofy. I'd totally be down to see some of y'all in game on some new characters.

Edited, Jan 29th 2013 7:05pm by IKickYoDog


Actually old players HAVE to be allowed to join new servers, otherwise their self-segregating (er.... lag reducing) global servers are for naught. Me personally, I'm going wherever my friends decide to go. I'd like to stay on Durandal, honestly I'd like to stay on a server that has a good global population since I move around the globe alot... but I'm going to go where my friends are, and if they choose a US based server, then so be it.


By new I mean "fresh" servers.
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#7 Jan 29 2013 at 7:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Perrin wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
catwho wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the old servers were further collapsed and combined before 2.0 is officially released.


As long as you over-achievers stay off my fresh server, I iz happy panda! Smiley: grin

EDIT: ^I know old chars can't join new server, was just being goofy. I'd totally be down to see some of y'all in game on some new characters.

Edited, Jan 29th 2013 7:05pm by IKickYoDog


Actually old players HAVE to be allowed to join new servers, otherwise their self-segregating (er.... lag reducing) global servers are for naught. Me personally, I'm going wherever my friends decide to go. I'd like to stay on Durandal, honestly I'd like to stay on a server that has a good global population since I move around the globe alot... but I'm going to go where my friends are, and if they choose a US based server, then so be it.


Most of us are on Durandal and will be staying there regardless of geographic location. You do know that existing characters can't transfer right? I'm assuming you're talking about making a new character on a different server should that be what your friends decide on.
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#8 Jan 29 2013 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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Durandal FTW!!!!
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#9 Jan 30 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
You do know that existing characters can't transfer right? I'm assuming you're talking about making a new character on a different server should that be what your friends decide on.

Have they confirmed this yet? From what I've seen, they've done nothing but dodge this question ever since people have brought it up. Also, there's really no evidence that suggests that the servers that existed at the end of 1.x will be around at launch, not to mention beta character transfers. There's just far too many unanswered questions to be definite on this issue yet.
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#10 Jan 30 2013 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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TurboTom wrote:
Wint wrote:
You do know that existing characters can't transfer right? I'm assuming you're talking about making a new character on a different server should that be what your friends decide on.

Have they confirmed this yet? From what I've seen, they've done nothing but dodge this question ever since people have brought it up. Also, there's really no evidence that suggests that the servers that existed at the end of 1.x will be around at launch, not to mention beta character transfers. There's just far too many unanswered questions to be definite on this issue yet.


The roadmap states beta chars will be ported to the launch barring any issues, I imagine you are stuck with the server you get, which would almost have to be a legacy server.

The latest word on server transfers:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/59874-NA-EU-JP-server-No-transfer?p=947649#post947649

Bayohne wrote:
I know you are asking about what will happen to version 1.0 characters, but we're currently working on finalizing the plans and will need to wait until it has been decided on before we can share details. Once that's done, we'll be sure to let you know.

As for server transfers in general, we are planning to implement the ability to change servers and we'll share more information as soon as it becomes available.


Regarding server transfers for legacy accounts, I think this is pretty clear (emphasis mine):

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/59874-NA-EU-JP-server-No-transfer?p=944375#post944375

Bayohne wrote:
The portion you quoted is specifically referring to the fresh "New Player" servers that we plan to introduce and that only fresh starting new characters will be able to join (whether that's a completely new player, or a brand new character of a returning player) and this restriction will be in place for a specific period of time (not yet finalized).

It goes on to say that new players will be able to join existing/established worlds as long as there is room on the world, but that old, returning players cannot move to the brand-new "new player" worlds.

Hopefully that clears it up!
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#11 Jan 31 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Bayohne wrote:
The portion you quoted is specifically referring to the fresh "New Player" servers that we plan to introduce and that only fresh starting new characters will be able to join (whether that's a completely new player, or a brand new character of a returning player) and this restriction will be in place for a specific period of time (not yet finalized).

It goes on to say that new players will be able to join existing/established worlds as long as there is room on the world, but that old, returning players cannot move to the brand-new "new player" worlds.

Hopefully that clears it up!


This confuses me.

This part makes it sounds like old players can make a new character on a fresh start server:
Bayohne wrote:
The portion you quoted is specifically referring to the fresh "New Player" servers that we plan to introduce and that only fresh starting new characters will be able to join (whether that's a completely new player, or a brand new character of a returning player) and this restriction will be in place for a specific period of time (not yet finalized).


But this part makes it sounds like old players can't join a fresh start server no matter what (at least until the restriction is lifted):
Bayohne wrote:
It goes on to say that new players will be able to join existing/established worlds as long as there is room on the world, but that old, returning players cannot move to the brand-new "new player" worlds.


So now I don't know what to think. Smiley: oyvey
#12 Jan 31 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
"Cannot move to."

It didn't say they can't create a new character, they just can't move a character. That's how I read it anyway.
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#13 Jan 31 2013 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
"Cannot move to."

It didn't say they can't create a new character, they just can't move a character. That's how I read it anyway.


That's the correct reading of it. You can make a new level 1 character on any server. You cannot transfer a level 50 character to one of the newbie only servers, but you can create a new level 1 on the newbie server even if you have a level 50 on one of the oldbie servers.

So, you can still have a slight knowledge edge against the scrubs on a newbie server, but you'll have to start out with 100 gil and a pat on the **** like everyone else.
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#14 Jan 31 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't imagine legacy characters (not players) will ever be allowed on new servers, or it would be so far along in the game's life cycle that it wouldn't matter to anyone anymore.
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#15 Jan 31 2013 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I don't imagine legacy characters (not players) will ever be allowed on new servers, or it would be so far along in the game's life cycle that it wouldn't matter to anyone anymore.


So much for my Legacy Hunter PvP Clan Smiley: laugh

In all seriousness you may be right. As cool as it would be to live side by side I would fear a few bad apples on both sides might stir issues and complaints :-(
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#16 Jan 31 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think it would hurt to ask for legacy transfers to legacy servers. I imagine that might be possible at some point. I think Catwho was right though that there will probably be a bit of server merging on the legacy servers depending on the populations.
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#17 Feb 01 2013 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
"Cannot move to."

It didn't say they can't create a new character, they just can't move a character. That's how I read it anyway.


That's the correct reading of it. You can make a new level 1 character on any server. You cannot transfer a level 50 character to one of the newbie only servers, but you can create a new level 1 on the newbie server even if you have a level 50 on one of the oldbie servers.

So, you can still have a slight knowledge edge against the scrubs on a newbie server, but you'll have to start out with 100 gil and a pat on the **** like everyone else.

It would have been easier to understand if they just separated it into character creation and character transfers.

Character Creation
Unrestricted.

Character Transfers
Servers are classified as 'New' or 'Established' servers.

You may transfer freely between the same server type as follows:
new <-> new
established <-> established

Players transferring between server types are limited to a one way transfer from a 'new' server to an 'established' server
new --> established

Once a player transfers from a new to an established server, they are free to transfer to other established servers provided there is available space on the server and they have exceeded the cooldown period.
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#18 Feb 01 2013 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I just hope that they don't give to many options to us new guys as to what new servers we choose. Like maybe two options to begin with, until those servers get full. Would suck to have 10 new servers to choose from, and all the new players were spread over the 10 new servers leaving many servers kind of empty.

It would seem smart to flow all newcomers to a certain server until it was full, and then start adding more servers. Don't you think?
#19 Feb 01 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Define "full"

Also you have to spread new players over several servers to avoid some servers feeling overcrowded and others feeling dead, depending entirely on when the particular character was created.

The trick with this is to not grossly overestimate the number of servers you're going to need and to also allow enough buildup of players on the servers you do launch with to accommodate those players that don't stick around.
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#20 Feb 01 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah you pretty much hit the nail in the coffin. I wasn't really meaning full to the point you can't have any more players, but just a good amount of users before opening more servers.

You know, just in case there were like 15 servers we could choose from, and on opening day, people are all spread out thin on new servers. By the way you put it though, I shouldn't have a worry. I'm just worried of being on that server that has problems with population, and not enough hard core committed players. Cause I'll be starting new on a fresh server.

What would you suggest? Wait a couple days before I join a server? I would prefer not to do this, because I plan on hitting the ground running day one lol...

But I'm probably just over thinking the situation.

Edited, Feb 1st 2013 6:01pm by SirLuciousLeftfoot
#21 Feb 01 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Most of us are on Durandal and will be staying there regardless of geographic location. You do know that existing characters can't transfer right? I'm assuming you're talking about making a new character on a different server should that be what your friends decide on.


I know that, I'm going where you guys go duh ^.~. But I'm pretty sure that ALL characters will have to be offered a transfer because of the regional servers. If they didn't, there would be a poo storm of people saying they were forced to decide between lag and their prior achievements.
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#22 Feb 01 2013 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll be one of those scrub newbies on the new server :D Who's with me!?

Wonder what kinda char I should make.... Man I'm in a good mood right now! ^^

Not for this. Had a great night. Well yea for this too I guess. I'm random I know...

Randomness part 2 - Mass Effect 3 kicks so much ***!

More brewski time! Have a great night all :)
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#23 Feb 01 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Perrin wrote:
Wint wrote:
Most of us are on Durandal and will be staying there regardless of geographic location. You do know that existing characters can't transfer right? I'm assuming you're talking about making a new character on a different server should that be what your friends decide on.


I know that, I'm going where you guys go duh ^.~. But I'm pretty sure that ALL characters will have to be offered a transfer because of the regional servers. If they didn't, there would be a poo storm of people saying they were forced to decide between lag and their prior achievements.


My guess is the legacy servers will be split between the different regions, perhaps by most population.

You guys act like lag is going to be a huge issue, but I think for every day play we aren't going to have problems. I know if I end up on a JP server I'm not going to be crying about it.
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#24 Feb 01 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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SirLuciousLeftfoot wrote:
Yeah you pretty much hit the nail in the coffin. I wasn't really meaning full to the point you can't have any more players, but just a good amount of users before opening more servers.

You know, just in case there were like 15 servers we could choose from, and on opening day, people are all spread out thin on new servers. By the way you put it though, I shouldn't have a worry. I'm just worried of being on that server that has problems with population, and not enough hard core committed players. Cause I'll be starting new on a fresh server.


Always better to have too many than too few. Although I don't see XIV running into the issue of too few, I'm sure most people would agree that they'd rather feel like their server hasn't reached critical mass yet than weather ungodly long queue times at login.

People usually spread out across servers. Not always evenly, but there probably won't be any issues with huge imbalance and even if there was, it's something that could be remedied easily. Just pick a server you want to play on and go for it. Maybe you'll get access to the beta and make some friends that you agree to a server with.
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#25 Feb 02 2013 at 5:04 AM Rating: Good
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You guys act like lag is going to be a huge issue, but I think for every day play we aren't going to have problems.

I KNOW lag was a pretty big issue fo people outside Japan.
#26 Feb 02 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I'm given the option, I want to be an an EST server. Balmung was fun and all, but...

It's really a problem when you're in a group with PSTers who don't understand why you're saying "I'm sleepy" at what they perceive as 8:30 PM at night.

Edit: Lag was a pretty big issue for people even inside Japan. It was the game engine and client, not just distance latency.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2013 2:42pm by catwho
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#27 Feb 02 2013 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Lag was a pretty big issue for people even inside Japan. It was the game engine and client, not just distance latency.

Well, I did not have lag in the sense that actions on my screen took effect long after I had performed them. I had "lag" when selling stuff in Ul'dah at the Pimelle (?) merchant, but that's about it.
#28 Feb 02 2013 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
You guys act like lag is going to be a huge issue, but I think for every day play we aren't going to have problems. I know if I end up on a JP server I'm not going to be crying about it.


Not me, though I suppose with PvP it could be an issue for some... but I'm not a fan of PvP and will likely only lightly participate unless it's more along the lines of mini-game related things and not just straight up combat or capture the flag BS.
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#29 Feb 03 2013 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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Regardless I'll be creating a new character on one of these new servers. I played the game for several months when first released, but quit before free-play ended. So if I were to rejoin on my same character I would be so lost amongst you 14 vets.
Fresh starts are fun!
#30 Feb 03 2013 at 11:35 PM Rating: Decent
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aadrenry wrote:
Do you think Square should give some type of small incentive to those who join older servers?


No, I don't.
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#31 Feb 04 2013 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Poubelle wrote:
aadrenry wrote:
Do you think Square should give some type of small incentive to those who join older servers?


No, I don't.

I'm curious what sort of incentive would match being on a server with a much larger pool of players around your level to participate in events with.
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#32 Feb 04 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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What you guys have not stop to consider is the population when XIV first release. I think SE has not say anything because they need to see how many players are comming back. When XIV first release there were over 600k copies sold around the world and only about 40-50k player and the end of 1.0. Plus 18 servers with a good population on each at release and only 10 at the end with OK population, so what if everyone comesback? Those 10 servers cannot handle all of the population that the original 18 had and then you need to add the PS3 players that did not purchased a copy of the game because they did not have the money to buy a new computer to handle the game.

Look at the Beta Road Map, Beta phase 1-2 is going to be dedicated to improved the game and get feedback from core FFXIV players (players that stick to the end with the bad and the good). Then Phase 3-4 will have most of the answer SE needs:

Overseas Servers phase 3
SE will see how many players want to play in their location and how many don't care to stay in Japan to play with their friends.

PS3 Beta phase 4
Will give SE a rough number of current PC accounts that will go PS3 and posible number of future new accounts on PS3 sales.

Then SE will have the necesary data to guess on the number of servers to open in each region and what must of the current population will want to do about staying in Japan servers. The first merger was a mess, I spend 5 hours figthing until the early hours of the morning EST with people to get a spot to transfer with my LS and many people was not happy because they did not get a spot and were left behind by their LS.

We won't get true answers until after the Beta testing, just think how many players will give ARR a chance that have a character made and don't want to create a new one. I know several people that did not care to craft or gather, after all of their battle classes reach 50; they stop playing.

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 11:59am by FedeMax

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 12:02pm by FedeMax
#33 Feb 04 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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When XIV first release there were over 600k copies sold shipped

...half of which ended up in the bargain bin.
#34 Feb 04 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
When XIV first release there were over 600k copies sold shipped

...half of which ended up in the bargain bin.


Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.
#35 Feb 04 2013 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.

That`s already 200k people who will not pre-order again.
#36 Feb 04 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.

That`s already 200k people who will not pre-order again.


That over 150k that could comeback for ARR release just in the USA along.

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 1:55pm by FedeMax
#37 Feb 04 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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FedeMax wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.

That`s already 200k people who will not pre-order again.


That over 150k that could comeback for ARR release just in the USA along.

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 1:55pm by FedeMax


you're out of your mind.

if FFXIV makes a comeback it will be a gradual process, customers aren't THAT gullible.
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#38 Feb 04 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Poubelle wrote:
FedeMax wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.

That`s already 200k people who will not pre-order again.


That over 150k that could comeback for ARR release just in the USA along.

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 1:55pm by FedeMax


you're out of your mind.

if FFXIV makes a comeback it will be a gradual process, customers aren't THAT gullible.


It's already been mentioned that there will be another trial, so the x hundred thousand gullible customers who already purchased the game need only reinstall it to start playing again. The true test will be to see if ARR is good enough at launch to keep them interested enough to subscribe. You'd have no trouble finding people here to attest to the fact that I don't think it's likely XIV will retain them all or even the majority, but I'm almost certain that the majority will come back at least to try it out.

75% of people who already purchased a product coming back for a free trial is not a stretch by any means.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#39 Feb 04 2013 at 3:32 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Poubelle wrote:
FedeMax wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.

That`s already 200k people who will not pre-order again.


That over 150k that could comeback for ARR release just in the USA along.

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 1:55pm by FedeMax


you're out of your mind.

if FFXIV makes a comeback it will be a gradual process, customers aren't THAT gullible.


It's already been mentioned that there will be another trial, so the x hundred thousand gullible customers who already purchased the game need only reinstall it to start playing again. The true test will be to see if ARR is good enough at launch to keep them interested enough to subscribe. You'd have no trouble finding people here to attest to the fact that I don't think it's likely XIV will retain them all or even the majority, but I'm almost certain that the majority will come back at least to try it out.

75% of people who already purchased a product coming back for a free trial is not a stretch by any means.


I don't doubt a lot of people will give the trial a chance, but I was replying to the idea that a large number of people would preorder
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#40 Feb 04 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fedemax wasn't referring to people preordering, he's talking about those who already bought the game and so have a "free copy" if you will for 2.0. I don't think it's unreasonable at all that the majority of those who bought 1.0 will come back to at least try 2.0. I'm not sure why Rinsui would think that those 200k would need to preorder yet again.
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#41 Feb 04 2013 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you, that is what I was trying to say including my original post. It is not hard to think that everyone that purchased a copy of FFXIV 1.0 will not give the game a trial. Plus everyone including current players will get the first month of ARR free, which give a chance for anyone that play XIV and left to give it a chance.

Open Beta will be a key factor as the success of ARR. If Open Beta is a success on the players, the amount of servers and just like I stated early will give SE the information it needs to provide a transfer or no transfer decision on servers. I hope SE will give the current community a way to transfer their Characters to their local region but it's been confirm by the DEVs that a transfer ticket can be obtain later (time not been confirm 1,2 or 6 months after release) to transfer just like in XI.

Still, it is not out of reach to get 400k-500k players at release of ARR because of the PS3 release.
#42 Feb 06 2013 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.

That`s already 200k people who will not need to pre-order again.


There, all fixed. He probably just got confused, or forgot that the game doesn't actually cost anything to anyone who has already purchased the game. And its true, almost every single person I know who bought v1.0 is going to be giving this game a second try, simply because it will be readily accessible to them.

I can't help but have such high hopes for this game. I didn't play too much of v1.0, so me and my buddies will be starting on a fresh server, struggling and helping each other out through quests and such! So excited! lol
#43 Feb 06 2013 at 4:35 AM Rating: Default
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DevilFruit wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Over 200k pre-order copies confirm for the USA at release time.

That`s already 200k people who will not need to pre-order again.


There, all fixed. He probably just got confused, or forgot that the game doesn't actually cost anything to anyone who has already purchased the game. And its true, almost every single person I know who bought v1.0 is going to be giving this game a second try, simply because it will be readily accessible to them.

I can't help but have such high hopes for this game. I didn't play too much of v1.0, so me and my buddies will be starting on a fresh server, struggling and helping each other out through quests and such! So excited! lol


We've established that everyone who already purchased the game will be able to play the trial. What's not certain is how many will remain beyond that critical first 30 days.

You also have to consider that all of those players had an 18 month free trial already. Based on server parses and estimates on sales, roughly 10% of those buyers stuck around to see the improvements as they were made. The changes coming in ARR will have to be significant enough that people will have decided well before their trial is up that they're staying with XIV.

Honest question; how long should optimism hold up for a project that will be going on 3 years old at it's second release?
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#44 Feb 06 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Honest question; how long should optimism hold up for a project that will be going on 3 years old at it's second release?


I will give it until Open Beta, FFXIV 1.0 biggest fail was the early release of a well know imcomplete game by the Beta testers. Most of the people I know that did Beta were not happy with the level of the game at that time but SE did not listen to the players and release the game anyway. Since Yoshi-P said that the game will not be release until they are safisfy with the product, it gives it a good chance that it will succeed. So far we see that with SE not releasing a launch date for the game so they won't have to hurry to meet it.

I do have high hopes for ARR and the current DEV team has done wonders for community - devs communication and answering questions.
#45 Feb 06 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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FedeMax wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Honest question; how long should optimism hold up for a project that will be going on 3 years old at it's second release?


I will give it until Open Beta, FFXIV 1.0 biggest fail was the early release of a well know imcomplete game by the Beta testers. Most of the people I know that did Beta were not happy with the level of the game at that time but SE did not listen to the players and release the game anyway. Since Yoshi-P said that the game will not be release until they are safisfy with the product, it gives it a good chance that it will succeed. So far we see that with SE not releasing a launch date for the game so they won't have to hurry to meet it.

I do have high hopes for ARR and the current DEV team has done wonders for community - devs communication and answering questions.


There were bigger mistakes.

The first was trying to use an all-purpose game engine for an MMO. Crystal Tools created countless delays in FFXIII and FFXIV which had a direct impact on their quality.

The second big mistake was to ignore trends in other MMOs, especially the more popular ones like WoW.

So by the time the beta test started it was already doomed with its crappy engine and its out-of-touch design philosophy.

But all is not lost. It's been said that FFXI is highly derivative (even SE admits it's EQ Final Fantasy style). What made FFXI SE's most profitable game where so many other equally derivative games have failed are its loyal fans. As long as FFXIV appeals to them, it will do fine.
#46 Feb 08 2013 at 4:01 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
You also have to consider that all of those players had an 18 month free trial already. Based on server parses and estimates on sales, roughly 10% of those buyers stuck around to see the improvements as they were made. The changes coming in ARR will have to be significant enough that people will have decided well before their trial is up that they're staying with XIV.


True. Although, as you mentioned, most people didn't stick around for an actual 18 month trial, even if the gametime was free. Speaking as someone who only played FFXIV for about 2 months before giving up (beta into launch), I know I've personally been very impressed with what ARR is offering. But that's just my opinion. I'm optimistic that the changes made are going to be great, but that doesn't really speak on how successful the game will be. I have to agree with Xoie though, as long as the game pleases Final Fantasy fans, the game still has a future.
#47 Feb 08 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Default
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I am really excited about a FFXIV too... But I was the first time around too.. I checked everyday to see if there was any news about a 360 version since they said it was being developed along side the windows version and I didn't want a new computer at the time. Allot of my friends that played FFXI on the Xbox went out and bought new computers for the game but were so disappointed and felt so burned. I still think they should call it something different than FFXIV, I have talked to some of these people recently and they will never give the game another chance.

I got to say I am really excited about having servers around the world. No more Japanese people grabbing a pop before we even see it appear and being half across the zone with it.. With the competition in abyssea it got really annoying.


I am not sure how I feel completely about the separation of new vs legacy players.I know most legacy players wont agree with this but if this is a totally new game like they say I think everyone should be at the same level. Give the legacy players something special though that other players cant get but reset all stats. I know allot of people that don't want to come to game where they are several years behind already. They need new blood and that is one way to get it. They don't need another reason to stay away. Be nice to have some legacy people on all servers to help new players out some. I complete understand about the economies and keeping them separate. I believe this will be lifted right away anyway and servers will be open to all players.

I would think everyone who plays this game wants what is best for the game and its success because if this game fails again it could be the end of SE.





Edited, Feb 8th 2013 10:26am by Nashred
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#48 Feb 08 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
I believe this will be lifted right away anyway and servers will be open to all player.


No, it really won't.
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#49 Feb 08 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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I plan to roll a new character on an established server for a couple of reasons.

1. As a legacy player, most of my friends will be playing on an established server. Even though I am starting over I would still like to play with them.

2. There will be leveled crafters on an established server. Getting crafted gear will not be as hard on an established server as it would be on a newbie server.

From an incentive standpoint I think that the grafted gear thing would hold the most weight for a new player starting on a legacy server. I remember starting 1.0 at release and there was people wearing starting gear and weapons on jobs till people were able to craft something higher. There was nothing out there, and if someone could craft rank30 + they charged out the wazoo for it.
#50 Feb 13 2013 at 3:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Nashred wrote:
I am not sure how I feel completely about the separation of new vs legacy players.I know most legacy players wont agree with this but if this is a totally new game like they say I think everyone should be at the same level. Give the legacy players something special though that other players cant get but reset all stats. I know allot of people that don't want to come to game where they are several years behind already. They need new blood and that is one way to get it. They don't need another reason to stay away. Be nice to have some legacy people on all servers to help new players out some. I complete understand about the economies and keeping them separate. I believe this will be lifted right away anyway and servers will be open to all players.


While it will play differently, and probably feel different, this isn't a "totally new game". And frankly, you would be hard pressed to make legacy players actually return to FFXIV if you were to take away everything they worked hard in the past 2 years, not to mention they have to completely restart.

Besides, having separate new and legacy servers already remedies the fairness issue. Aside from more inherent knowledge, no one will have an unfair advantage over others on either servers. As someone who will be starting on a brand new US server, I prefer it that way. I look forward to working hard on completing quests with random strangers. And if FFXI was any indication, there will probably be storyline missions and so forth that will force me to find other players. I personally cannot wait.

Bikakuga wrote:
From an incentive standpoint I think that the grafted gear thing would hold the most weight for a new player starting on a legacy server. I remember starting 1.0 at release and there was people wearing starting gear and weapons on jobs till people were able to craft something higher. There was nothing out there, and if someone could craft rank30 + they charged out the wazoo for it.


Just remember that v2.0 will introduce loads of quests to the game, which are supposed to help you level up a class all the way. Just like every other game, these quests reward you with XP, money, and possibly loot. I don't think finding 'okay' gear will be nearly as difficult as it used to be. I'm sure the quest rewards won't be amazing, and you can probably get better crafted gear, but we won't be so reliant on crafters due to gear scarcity. There's also Guildleves as well, which sometimes reward gear as well.
#51 Feb 13 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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DevilFruit wrote:
Just remember that v2.0 will introduce loads of quests to the game, which are supposed to help you level up a class all the way. Just like every other game, these quests reward you with XP, money, and possibly loot. I don't think finding 'okay' gear will be nearly as difficult as it used to be. I'm sure the quest rewards won't be amazing, and you can probably get better crafted gear, but we won't be so reliant on crafters due to gear scarcity. There's also Guildleves as well, which sometimes reward gear as well.
Believe it or not, the scarcity of gear drops in XIV has been one of the big things I miss from that game. It just seemed to add a whole new level of discovery and excitement to the game. In all the other MMOs I've been playing since FF, you get so much loot while questing they make crafting seem like a waste of time and getting gear upgrades is no more exciting than finding junk that you npc for money (at least for me). I personally thought it was much more fun relying on crafting to get all your gear. Making each and every upgrade feel like a special moment in the growth of your character - instead of something that is handed to you and in most cases accompanied with no feelings at all.

That's not to imply that I don't think they botched the whole system in 1.0 though. I completely agree with anyone who will say "but trying to figure out recipes was a nightmare" or "but trying to find something you wanted to buy was impossible (pre Market Wards)". The entire system wasn't perfect by any means, but the concept of "You have to work for your gear instead of automatically getting it through normal progression" was great to me. I'd much rather have the old 1.0 system than what all these other games are using.

I know I'm in the minority on this and I have braced myself for all the red arrows soon to be pierced through this post, lol. Maybe ARR will find a good mix of both - I would be ok with that if they were able to please both sides (people who love to craft and people who just want to do quests and not worry about it).

TL;DR = I prefer a higher emphasis on crafting rather than getting gear as loot.
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