Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Right, so at that rate it will only take you a little over a year of working towards that and not much else 
Timesinks frequently fail to deter players from setting goals as much as they deter them from actually achieving them. And any time your players set a goal that they have to give up on, the odds of them quitting altogether have risen significantly.
Carrots are supposed to keep horses running. Some games treat their carrots like they're made of gold, or as if they fear their horse won't want carrots anymore if they give them out more than once a week. Actually, carrots are cheap as hell and horses can't eat enough of them.
XI is one such game with lots of land to cover and a stingy rider.
Timesinks frequently fail to deter players from setting goals as much as they deter them from actually achieving them. And any time your players set a goal that they have to give up on, the odds of them quitting altogether have risen significantly.
Carrots are supposed to keep horses running. Some games treat their carrots like they're made of gold, or as if they fear their horse won't want carrots anymore if they give them out more than once a week. Actually, carrots are cheap as hell and horses can't eat enough of them.
XI is one such game with lots of land to cover and a stingy rider.
I knew a Lu Shang, at optimal conditions, would still take me months. Ended up taking me years, but at the same time was at times the ONLY reason I was playing the game. Did what they wanted it to didn't it?
Drove away a thousand other players to keep your subscription? :P
KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Carrots are supposed to keep horses running. Some games treat their carrots like they're made of gold, or as if they fear their horse won't want carrots anymore if they give them out more than once a week. Actually, carrots are cheap as hell and horses can't eat enough of them.
Do you really think that there's no saturation point at which incremental gear upgrades become less appealing? For me, at least, I know that WoW did a great job at devaluing my motivation for gear; it felt as though there were about fifty armour sets from which to choose, and the ones that weren't palette-swaps gave the equivalent of AGI+346 instead of AGI+325; when questing, I had so many new, best pieces of equipment that I'd sometimes miss equipping one until I'd out-leveled it!
To continue the metaphor, I had a truckload of carrots dumped on top of me, and there came a point where I didn't clap my giddy little hands (hooves?) and cry, "Oh, boy! :D" every time I turned around and picked up another one from the pile.
I think what this argument misses is that the carrots we're talking about aren't consumable... they're replaceable. A carrot is used and thus has fulfilled its value; a piece of equipment is only valuable for as long as it maintains utility. This is why I've criticized WoW's extrinsic motivation system as recently as yesterday. It undermines the values of its own rewards. FFXI, on the other hand, actually relies heavily on horizontal progression (or once did), didn't need to belabor their value, and STILL treats their carrots like priceless heirlooms.
Rinsui wrote:
Which is to say: you guys are approaching the issue from the wrong angle.
I don't think it's the wrong angle, but it's not the only. Intrinsic motivation is integral to good game design, but so is effective use of extrinsic motivators.