I wasn't upset that people didn't read it, just that they didn't understand it. Perhaps you are smarter than the average poster, but you had no problem comprehending it. I just don't see any way that someone could come away from the first few sentences thinking that grind = negative is my viewpoint, much less several posts about how and why I disagree.
I read all of your posts up until the point that I mentioned it. I just wasn't interested in discussing philosophical interpretation of a generally accepted definition.
Let's establish further context here. During our discourse, I took the impression that you have a negative light of FFXIV
's Grind systems (clarification for you). In particular, Levequests.
Yet, you depicted a game outside of an MMO, League of Legends, as a positive grind. When I said, and I quote:
Filth, what is it in an MMO do you even want?
You seem to refer to Grind as a negative, yet, by definition list it as anything that remotely repeats - even if the repetition is voluntary and enjoyable.
To clarify that statement further for you: You were saying a grind isn't a bad thing when the gameplay is enjoyable. Let me pull the quote where you implied that:
As an example, I play LoL and I 'grind' the points needed to unlock more characters, stat upgrades or whatever else. It's a grind because it takes a lot of time and games played to get everything unlocked. I don't get any less entertainment from the game simply knowing that it will take months to get everything because I really enjoy playing the matches.
But instead of arguing the mechanics of what could turn FFXIV's grind, which you referr as negative, to something more enjoyable like your LoL, we got tied up in semantics. Not uncommon when you're using multi-use words.
But the initial question here still stands. In your last paragraph in that initial post you stated:
It would be nice to see companies develop content that has value beyond it's material utility. Give me an event that I still want to participate in regularly because it's enjoyable even after I have earned enough points, tokens, influence or whatever to get any spoils I may have been after. There is something to be said for creating content like this. You don't always have to make something seem like a pain in the ass to force players into continuing to sub month after month. Simply designing a game that is fun to play in the long run makes more sense, to me at least.
And I agree with the sentiment. But stating as such does not clarify what makes a content worth repeating - especially on a broad scale.
I enjoy Levequests. I think they get boring after too long because there's not enough randomization in how each particular leve unfolds. At least not after repeating them a few dozen times. But there are 3 regions for each level section (More at 30 when you have the option to do dungeon ones.) So you get rewarded with more variance when you explore.
But you do not. You said it yourself - if you don't enjoy a mechanic it's broken. And while I'd argue that you can never create a mechanic everyone
will enjoy, I do believe we should make efforts to design each game function with a wide appeal.
So we get right back to the question I'll still be asking you at every turn: What is it in an MMO you want? - That's the question all feedback should boil down to here. You want something you can repeat an enjoy regardless of the loot. What is it that you enjoy repeating? What things can be added to specific mechanics that would make them more enjoyable for you?
There may be examples in the game that have been implemented since you left that meet them. The rest can be brought to the developer's attentions.
Not everything that is needed can be inferred by going to one grind and saying "This is bad." and going to another grind and saying "This is good." It really even isn't about the examples. It's more about your desires. So, make them clear, and use specifics, rather than base generalizations.