GailC wrote:
Probably gonna get downrated to the gutter, but I wanted to chime in on this issue because I actually care about this game, but SE's design decisions and business policies keep pushing me away from it.
Case in point: the grind is something SE is going to have to move away from. It's simply not passable game-design anymore, and the longer they cling to it the faster their fan base will diminish. People don't want to pay their money to do the same thing repetitively over and over... that's how we work for our money. We want to spend our time playing the game by adventuring.
Now, the old model, the model they used in FFXI a decade or so ago is the idea that you place leveled content for the players to experience and then use the leveling mechanics as a pace-car. By managing the rate at which players progress, you can keep them playing longer and thus paying more.
That kind of model is outdated. It doesn't draw people anymore the way it used to. Ten years ago, the U.S. and World economies weren't in as bad shape, people had a bit better job security, and a bit more free time, college tuition debt wasn't as bad... you get the point. Now people have less time and money to be spending on entertainment... but they're still going to spend the money. You just have to have a product that's going to appeal to them, you can't just assume on brand loyalty to carry you through if there's nothing to be loyal too.
Especially if you're still trying to milk loyalty from decades-old titles.
The management of FFXIV has been deplorable. In the early days, the game was nigh unplayable. Updates have been slow. If by this point they are still using grind to pad out the lack of content... then I'll look elsewhere to spend my money for entertainment.
It isn't just the business practices. Like I said, I disagree fundamentally with many of their design decisions; they implemented the classic Jobs, for example, in precisely the way I was hoping they wouldn't, turning what was an interesting, open class-creation system (the Armory System) into something even more restrictive than FFXI's class system: imagine if you could only physically select one combination of Main Class/Subjob... you could only ever play as a Pld/War for example, or a Rdm/Whm. This is EXACTLY the problem that players decried in FFXI as limiting (and it was a community issue as much as a design issue, because there were certain combinations that were ideal, and the players would not accept anything less than ideal in FFXI).
As I argued a year ago, the problem with class-role differentiation doesn't need to be fixed by focusing jobs tightly on specific roles, rather you need to define specific roles necessary for the party and let players decide how to fill those roles, something that FFXIV has lacked. Instead, again, they took a system that was supposed to be inherently customizable and made it static and uninteresting.
In any case, this is all moot I think. They'll maintain their core supporters, but as the fantastic, progressive titles like FFVII and FFXI fade farther into the past, and the games SE does produce continue to decline in quality, they won't have younger generations of gamers clinging to their franchise. Now is the time for SE to reinvent the brand. In fact, I would go so far as to say now is a pivotal time for them; the brand is undergoing reinvention whether they like it or not, and if they stick to their old way of doing business, then I'm afraid their brand is not going to survive the transition in very good shape.
This is not to trash the game, or the company, or to troll anyone here on the forums. I honestly would love to come back to FFXIV, but they're going to have to adapt to a changing industry or else I'll simply find my entertainment elsewhere, notably with games that don't require me to devote time I don't have to doing things I'd rather not be doing.
I know, I know, don't let the door hit me on the way out, right?
A word of warning though, guys... that attitude leads to vacant servers and plugs being pulled.
Case in point: the grind is something SE is going to have to move away from. It's simply not passable game-design anymore, and the longer they cling to it the faster their fan base will diminish. People don't want to pay their money to do the same thing repetitively over and over... that's how we work for our money. We want to spend our time playing the game by adventuring.
Now, the old model, the model they used in FFXI a decade or so ago is the idea that you place leveled content for the players to experience and then use the leveling mechanics as a pace-car. By managing the rate at which players progress, you can keep them playing longer and thus paying more.
That kind of model is outdated. It doesn't draw people anymore the way it used to. Ten years ago, the U.S. and World economies weren't in as bad shape, people had a bit better job security, and a bit more free time, college tuition debt wasn't as bad... you get the point. Now people have less time and money to be spending on entertainment... but they're still going to spend the money. You just have to have a product that's going to appeal to them, you can't just assume on brand loyalty to carry you through if there's nothing to be loyal too.
Especially if you're still trying to milk loyalty from decades-old titles.
The management of FFXIV has been deplorable. In the early days, the game was nigh unplayable. Updates have been slow. If by this point they are still using grind to pad out the lack of content... then I'll look elsewhere to spend my money for entertainment.
It isn't just the business practices. Like I said, I disagree fundamentally with many of their design decisions; they implemented the classic Jobs, for example, in precisely the way I was hoping they wouldn't, turning what was an interesting, open class-creation system (the Armory System) into something even more restrictive than FFXI's class system: imagine if you could only physically select one combination of Main Class/Subjob... you could only ever play as a Pld/War for example, or a Rdm/Whm. This is EXACTLY the problem that players decried in FFXI as limiting (and it was a community issue as much as a design issue, because there were certain combinations that were ideal, and the players would not accept anything less than ideal in FFXI).
As I argued a year ago, the problem with class-role differentiation doesn't need to be fixed by focusing jobs tightly on specific roles, rather you need to define specific roles necessary for the party and let players decide how to fill those roles, something that FFXIV has lacked. Instead, again, they took a system that was supposed to be inherently customizable and made it static and uninteresting.
In any case, this is all moot I think. They'll maintain their core supporters, but as the fantastic, progressive titles like FFVII and FFXI fade farther into the past, and the games SE does produce continue to decline in quality, they won't have younger generations of gamers clinging to their franchise. Now is the time for SE to reinvent the brand. In fact, I would go so far as to say now is a pivotal time for them; the brand is undergoing reinvention whether they like it or not, and if they stick to their old way of doing business, then I'm afraid their brand is not going to survive the transition in very good shape.
This is not to trash the game, or the company, or to troll anyone here on the forums. I honestly would love to come back to FFXIV, but they're going to have to adapt to a changing industry or else I'll simply find my entertainment elsewhere, notably with games that don't require me to devote time I don't have to doing things I'd rather not be doing.
I know, I know, don't let the door hit me on the way out, right?
A word of warning though, guys... that attitude leads to vacant servers and plugs being pulled.
I understand what you're saying and where you are coming from, I completely agree. :)
Olorinus wrote:
Perrin, S.O.B. Superhero wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
Unfortunately it is still really grindy. They really need to chop tnls by at least a third.
Only on gathering, everything else is pretty quick. If you need a hand and I'm on send me a /tell. I won't PL you but I'd be happy to kill stuff with ya.
Eh, it is just the 40040995934895898934 TNLs that I find really depressing. I actually don't find the gathering as bad, but I just can't be arsed to grind endlessly solo on the same leves I did two years ago to level up my thm.
Also I can't even explain how sad it was for me to log in and find a lot of the abilities I loved, gone forever. I am going to write a little post about my experiences so far to make things a little more clear.
I also agree with this. :)
To be honest, the only fast way of leveling that I'm understanding is to have a level 50 bump you through to level 40 and from there it's easy as caik but that shouldn't be how it is... The story should be indulging and the leveling should come from the story, end game should be about loot grinding ect, I love grinding dungeons but grinding to get to the point where you can do that is beyond tiresome, I'm not a child.. I have real life to attend to, I work 50-60 hours a week and the time I spend gaming I would like to enjoy it, not grind it.
*Waits 5 more days!!*
Edited, May 11th 2012 6:10pm by Disposition96