When and where are the level up parties?Follow

From what I've read/heard, they aren't that common due to the whole PL/topheavy50 situation.

yeah only at the min 30+ for exp partys because of PLing

Hmm... I wonder whether the two are in any way related... :P

So, in other words, the general lack of parties (for various reasons) is nothing but "rumors and wild speculation," but it's easy to level solo, there's not much of a reason for one to party for most of the leveling process, and one should mostly complete leves on their own. That sounds like the wild speculation is somewhat validated.

I'm sorry guys. I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy or anything here, I'm just really disheartened by what I'm seeing happen to this game. Do you mean to tell me that before the game has even officially launched in playable format (despite the fact that they've been making people pay now for an unfinished product), it's already run into the problems of a game three times it's age? There's already problems with players finding parties in low levels due to a top-heavy player base, lack of low level content, and repetitive grinding for XP...

At this point, by the time the game is in polished state (which I imagine will be a while after the release of 2.0 considering once 2.0 hits, the game will be in a state equivalent to a fresh title just released to the public), it will be using outdated technology. Christ, it's probably doing so now, though I understand they've been doing performance boosts and such. The fact remains, by the time it's "Ready" there will be games on the market that have already far surpassed FFXIV in all areas.

The future's not written, anything could happen. Maybe their business practices will turn out to be genius. But as a former customer, I can say the direction they're headed in will not draw me back to the game, and if the best they can hope is to hold on to a core of die-hard fans, I'm sorry, but they're wasting their money while other companies continue to advance the industry.

I leveled up my main classes mostly through partying with my linkshell, I suggest you find one, the official forums are always recruiting.

This has been true of FFXIV for a long time now.



The 'technology' behind FFXIV 2.0 has been stated to be not the same as FFXIV, i.e., the Crystal Engine. I don't recall articles detailing out the new engine any further (what it's based on, has it been used for MMORPGs before, etc.)



The game right now is almost a self-admitted "leveling curve is insignificant, experience the story through accelerated levels and enjoy the content at 50 while it's still there" - and although that's not the type of MMORPG I enjoy, I'm holding out to see how this is adapted for 2.0.

If FFXIV 2.0 comes and it's simply a graphical overhaul with an insignificant character development through leveling philosophy MMORPG, or this is simply extended to a level cap raise to say 60 ro 70, whereby it's trivial to obtain as such and players are encouraged to faceroll through the levels as fast as possible so "the real game can being", it won't be the MMORPG for me. I understand many may enjoy this and spend countless hours with FFXIV 2.0 as a result and I wish many kudos to them, my dislikes shouldn't be a catalyst for their game decisions.

I'll be the jerk that says it:

Make one.

No really. I see shouts all the time in town. Maybe you are out doing leves or soloing so often you don't catch them.
The easiest fix I see is for you to shout and make one.

I was just clarifying that there has been offical word about endgame content for 2.0. They're releasing the parts they can slowly into 1.XX content.

The things we likely won't see till 2.0 and beyond is likely PvP related.

But war with Garlemand is going to probably take the bulk of the early 2.0 PvP, so Legatus will be primary focus, followed by Crystal Tower and more Primal Battles.

I was just curious as to why you thought there was no word on Endgame in 2.0 and wondering if you were expecting anything else beside that which was outlined in the 2.0 ad on lodestone.

It's not the same. Abyssea destroyed it.



To each their own, I never said it was a requirement for everyone. But there exists a myrriad of MMORPGs out there right now for those who wish to solo through a shallow leveling curve and the real game begins at levelcap. What's wrong with requesting an MMORPG that doesn't adhere to that design philosophy for those of us who don't enjoy it?



It's a matter of expectations. I never went into FFXI expecting to solo, I knew that was a social game orientated at group-base player development. Solo play was limited to other actions, upon which I also found enjoyable.

But a MMORPG does not always have to include a soloable leveling curve, that's just the current trend. The aspects of multiplayer online can be sprinkled throughout the game wherever the developers like.

I personally like them to be along a lengthy leveling curve, not an endgame dungeon-based gear grind. The end result is that after X amount of hours your character is Y more developed. In FFXI that was levels, in WoW/Lotro/SWTOR/etc that was item strength. It just comes down to personal preference.

Not my discussion, but I wanted to chime in and say I agree here. In the short term Abyssea reinvigorated the game, but at the cost of 90% of the games existing content. When I returned to find that leveling consisted of massive alliances killing the same five mobs over and over again in Gusgen mines/Crawler's Nest/Etc.... all I can say is that the aspects of the game that I loved, the reason I came back, was no longer there. All of the leveling I had done was to access content that now no longer had any relevance. Even the level caps seem pointless, I'm not sure why they haven't done away with them completely: at low levels they create massive stopgaps (good luck getting high level players to help you break to 55, for example), at high levels they become repetitive and pointless time sinks (get this many seals, and this many merits).

My main was Warrior, so I was excited to be useful in the new system. I had Axe, Great Axe, Sword, Dagger, Scythe, and Crossbow mostly leveled, with Polearm and Hand to Hand on the way. I was looking forward to picking up Staff and Great Axe and Club.

I played abyssea for a bit, then retired my warrior and just leveled my Ninja in book burns until I quit. Abyssea brought back a lot of players, but I was one of the ones it also drove away.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/teaser/index.html

This explained everything at the start. Further details of each releaced content will be explained further as we get closer. But the bulk of what we're getting for 2.0 is as follows:

Primal Battles
Primal Summoning System
Dragon Battles of Ishgard
PvP Coliseum
PvP Frontlines
Crystal Tower
Wandering Odin
Labyrinth


As far as existing endgame's existence in the future? Consult the road-map. They're pretty much transfering the content developed here 1:1 with likely minor adjustments to accompany the new gaming engine.



So you can assume they're already porting content over at this point.

And this of course is ignoring all of the letters from the developers that tend to give progress reports on all that's going on. I take it you are keeping up with those, right?

I don't think that's necessarily true.

This is all just my opinion, but we've seen an explosions of MMORPGs since World of Warcraft debuted and revolutionized the genre. Most people attribut this to WoW's gameplay philosophy and have attempted to decry such philosophy as the golden rule of MMORPG gameplay for success.

Yet we've seen countless MMORPGs with similar styles launch and never achieve lasting success. And it's true, when WoW came about its concepts were a breath of fresh air. "Soloing as a viable means of character progression? That's madness and will never work." we said.

But what most people fail to consider is it was the very contrast that made WoW stand out, not the gameplay directly. We were so tired of the "old school" MMORPG philosophy that the newness in WoW made it incredibly fun. Not having to shout for a healer for hours to go kill that turtle over and over again for 1/10 a level, I can go do it as a quest solo and get a substantial reward? This game is fantastic!

I've played just about every major MMORPG between since WoW's launch and can tell you, they aren't as fun as WoW was when it launched because it wasn't directly the gameplay mechanics that made WoW popular, it was because it was different.

We could very well see a major publisher introduce a MMORPG that contradicts this yet again and goes back to traditional MMORPG playstyle and achieves enough popularity to be successful.

People get tired of the same thing over and over again, and we've had the same style of MMORPG all cut from the same cloth introduced for years now. The market is ripe for something different.

Edited, May 11th 2012 3:09pm by Whales

I'm just wondering why the concept of substantial and rewarding has to come default with the implied term 'lengthy' and 'forced group'

I'm doing Leves on my Dragoon and I don't feel like I'm unchallenged. I mean litterally sometimes I feel like I'm being ambushed (and sometimes that's litterally the case, and design of the leve.) With each new ability there's a period of adjustment to get used to it, and I feel as if I'm given that time to adjust. And as I progress up and adapt to new abilities, those previous skills are also refined.

Same thing with parties. It only took me one party to get a base-line idea of what I'm to do, and I'll grow more accustomed to it as I continue to. Getting used to the jobs mechanics in general and getting used to using them in a party are two different beasts, similar in the base understanding, but differing in the executions. (Gotta learn how to attack on the move and anticipate the enemy's positioning shifting too.)

At no time did I feel the lack of accomplishment from leveling in this manner, and similarly, I did not feel the sense of exhaustion or public harassment for playing a job that is currently unpopular.


But you seem to think that the concept of Dungeon-Gear crawls is the only means of progression in this game: This would be false. Currently Dungeon Gear is superior, but this is only because Crafting itself is on a revamp. It's already been previously stated that aside from Legacy Weapons, High Quality Crafted Gear melded with Meteria will be next to or ahead of the dungeon curve - because there is substantially more risk involved. So in essence, level IS still going to be what matters here. Dungeon Gear grinding will effectively be done for the challenge and unique rewards.

--------------------

Self example: I work two jobs. That makes my free time often tainted with exhaustion, so I don't always get to events. So, in trade, I focus on one job: Lancer/Dragoon. I will also be leveling the crafts to support this job gear wise. If Yoshi keeps with his word, I will not suddenly be non-inviteable to an event simply because I show up in primarily crafted+melded gear. In fact, the gear I have might actually be superior. We'll see how Yoshi keeps the balance and interest with this concept though.

But should I have to bother people every single time I want to go level Dragoon, especially seeming sometimes that means being up in the morning when there's very few people on? No. I like the freedom to learn at my own pace without having to interact with A-holes hiding behind parse numbers taking pride that they have less of a real life than I do. That's simply my preference. As far as going towards goals and doing events. I found a group that does not like class stacking and is not bias towards the flavor of the month. They're interested in playing the game, not gaming the system.

I understand your preference, but I think you must understand the impact abiding behind that preference will do to the majority. You can still group, you can still party. But understand you're still going to be sitting up there shouting to get a group together (Honestly, how this is different from old School FFXI, I don't know, maybe because people can actually progress without having to sit and wait?) and you can still grind away at camps. It's done. It's more common for higher levels than lower levels, but I've seen level 20 groups gather, and even my LS has a low-level static night going.

But when you do get that party, you'll progress quickly. Beleive me surviving some of those camps when they're during their chaotic times will feel like an accomplishment in and of itself.

You might want to give it a try, actually. I'm not sure you'll be so wanting for the sense of accomplishment and social interaction if you manage to find a group. The level curve (if you can call it that) might seem bad on paper, but I haven't encountered your fears. They might have managed to make quick leveling feel good for you.


On a side note (not about you):
There is this sense of "I'm mad because nobody will play with me. SE, please make them play with me!" complaint that I get every time I hear concerns about soloing through the leveling grind. I don't quite get my head around why people can't be content in making friends because they want to as opposed to 'have to'. I didn't feel forced or compelled to join the guild I'm in. It really wasn't a "Ugh, I've gotta join a Dynamis LS to get my Relic." like FFXI was. It was a "Hey, my friend joined this LS, let's see what they're about." The whole journey feels just a lot less stressful and aggravating.

Really? Again, I didn't. The game was terrible, the people were awesome. That's what made the difference.

Maybe it was the continual burnout at every inane insubstantial bottleneck and time-sink I came across at every corner but if I didn't have such good friends as I did, I would not have lasted nearly as many years.

Here? The gameplay IS fun. But it's fun on my terms. Far less bottlenecks, far less timesinks. If I want to party up? I go looking for or to make a party. If I don't want to deal with gathering or dealing with a party, I go solo. I've got options, lots of them!

I'm not sure you understand the aspect of why FFXI was popular. It wasn't 'the journey' it was the people! It was Calcula and Saskiot, and Dale and Aniero and Sayl and Viceroy and Neelia. These people I both commiserated and celebrated with. Not the fact that I had to wait six hours for a decent pickup party to gather in Valkrum Dunes just so I can level. Or the watching of game clock so I can time my refresh spell properly.

'Leveling' is not what I remember most doing with these people either.


Now? I still got Neelia and Sayl's busy, but he still pops in from time to time. We group up, we chat, we hang out. We have memorable times. (Last week's chocobo race isn't something I'm going to forget for a loong time. *Painfully rubs bum*) And there's more cool people I'm having fun with. So we've got better gameplay for the same awesome companionship.

I'm really wondering if you guys are just pining after nostalgia. Or you genuinely feel as if you need to torment yourself to feel accomplished, or to make friends.

It's just playstyle preference - I like group support roles and don't enjoy solo grinds. I played a Bard in FFXI and loved it, as well as a healer/tank/support role in all my other MMORPGs, which is why I am pining for a FFXI-type game.

As far as crafting in FFXIV goes, I've attempted a bit here and there to keep up with the demands of Archer, and dabbled in cooking to help bring better experiences to combat, but it's not something that just draws me in. Most notably I think because, like a lot of things in FFXIV, it's extremely top heavy at the moment.

Crafting in FFXI was enjoyable for me because of the progression toward successful economic play in understanding what the most profitable items were. I rarely crafted items for personal use, beyond cooking.

Regardless of the fact that I'm sitting on millions upon millions of gil simply because of dumping my crystals during last year's madness and thus have little use of currency, I find that there's very little economic strategy to crafting and it exists in its current form as more a means to an end for gearing.

I think it's 10,000x better than it was at launch though, and I didn't like the first iteration of complex patterns across dozens of prerequisite craftables and required reliance on other professions to make anything.

Edited, May 11th 2012 4:00pm by Whales

Sounds to me like you just don't have an active group together. Darkhold, even totem/feather grinding for Primals should keep you regularly in parties, AND you get group based battling within the fights and runs themselves.

But yes, our experiences were quite the opposite.

In FFXI I was primarily a Red Mage. I'm actually quite notorious for supporting the concept of a front line Red Mage and I found the regiment of forcing a RDM into a healer/back-line support to have been quite aggravating. It was fine and decent when there was a simple goal in mind like a battlefield with a high dangerous monster and me with little defenses, but for grinding? I had a policy of "Melee Fodder, Magic Bosses." and the party mechanics and preferences stifled that. My Fiance at the time was also a WHM and after the implementation of burn parties, we never saw groups together that we didn't make ourselves.

I saw how reliance on parties for EXP choked the life out of them first hand. When mechanics like Level Sync, Besieged, Campaign, Fields and Grounds of Valor came out, it was a sigh of relief for so many. I am sorry that it damaged your enjoyment of the game though.

There's no such conflict here though. Granted, there's no Red Mage yet either - but right now I'm kinda glad for that. The Dulists can take some time off form the gaming limelight.

Haha, one time I offered to help someone in /say and a couple people nearby told me to "keep it in /tell, please."

I can understand not liking insipid political/religious/ethical discussions in /shout, but to get angry that players are conducting in-game business by talking to each other goes well beyond a healthy distaste for annoying conversation. From what I gathered, quite a few people in FFXIV don't just favour quietness, they favour silence. And with attitudes that unfriendly, they may repel enough newbies and have it, eventually - though perhaps not ultimately to their liking or the game's benefit.


Edited, May 11th 2012 5:30pm by KaneKitty

This has always been one of my biggest complaints with FFXIV. You see so little signs of... vitality. Of people conversing, of conversation, of ambient noise. It's just.... *crickets*... everywhere... all the time. MMOs are supposed to be virtual worlds, teeming with real people. Not people sitting behind linkshells and shunning people for deigning to speak.

Put simply, it dosen't have a chatterbox channel, like other MMOs.

And most people who did jump form FFXI to FFXIV and stayed did not like Shoutbox spamming.

Ul'dah may act like a central hub for the game, but it isn't one, and the game lacks a way to communicate wide-ban with everyone without becoming a clutter to those doing instead of chatting.

And that's the real difference here. There's limited wait times on things now. Getting a pick up group together is about the only real time sink here, aside from crafting. (You could try chatting it up with crafters now that they don't have a timer tied to their crafts.) Most people are actually active, so they view chatting as a distraction, or, they're simply passing through or not in range.

So you've got one-half bad chat-interface design, one half good game play design. Which makes most conversations done in linkshells, where the chat is global and you know or are getting to know the people. I am certainly not lacking for social exchange in my game.

I expect 2.0 to be a fair bit more conversational, though I will see if they can suggest a chat channel - though it will likely be consumed by shouts (even though we do have a content finder...)

The party search tool is there, and actually really easy to use...only downfall is no one uses it.

All you really have to do is leave everything to default and adjust the level you want to find, it'll pull up everyone seeking. But when I did that last time, one guy came up between 20-25.