On soloing vs. partyingFollow

First off, remember that SE said that XIV would NOT have a traditional XP system. So, because of this, who has the "claim" to the monster may only affect who gets the chance to loot it.

Secondly, they also said they want combat to be more open. So you can help out someone who is fighting something without them calling for help, without you gimping their gains and, possibly, getting something for yourself in return. If they is the case, then party scaling would be kinda worthless. People would just elect to fight mobs ungrouped, to put them down fast. Look at it this way. Say helping someone kill something gave you half the AP (like for learning skills in FFTA) if you weren't in the group with the "claim."

So, say a mob normally has 100 HP. Which is faster:

6 people killing a mob with 100 HP for half the AP (one gets full, and they can rotate the puller).

6 people killing a mob with 600+ HP for a 100% bonus to AP?

Say the AP return is naturally 50. For taking out 100 HP, you get a ratio of 1 AP to 4 HP. But, if you did it in a group, you'd get 100 AP, for 600 HP, a 1 to 6 ratio. With a VERY high AP multiplier, that is far worse.

I'd expect there to be no increase in mob difficulty in a party, but a decrease to rewards (just not as extreme as in XI), so that killing something 6x as fast meant 4x less reward, or something.

And, because of the above, if they were gonna scale Health, it would have to be based on the number engaged against the mob, even if unclaimed. And, even then, that would lead to huge issues (even if they managed to code it, which would be an epically annoying thing to do), in that groups of A-holes could go around putting themselves on hate lists so that mobs got ludicrously strong and MPKing someone.

We really need more info about the rewards system before we can discuss this.

No one else can attack the enemy except the first person who attacks it and his/her party. That is for the majority of the game. Kinda of it locks the ability to be attacked to only a few people.



Even if this were implemented, parties would still go for higher level mobs to compensate for exp gain. No real reason to increase the level/strength of a mob only after it has been initially attacked. The thing is though, the experience gained from attacking a monster in your system doesn't seem all that necessary. For example, I attack the mob and gain 100xp. Now I get someone else to attack with me, it gets stronger, we get 110xp each. As it is currently, should we attack a slightly stronger monster, we could get the same results. I just don't see it as a viable system.




There are already some things in FFXI which spawn other monsters. This wouldn't be hard to implement but if you happen to grab a mob that spawns a few others and those attack, is it a random number of other mobs or a set amount. Wouldn't just grouping mobs into clusters do the same? Or increase link range?

Nice ideas but not really necessary. I personally wouldn't want more mobs to just spawn out of nowhere to attack my party because I would like to adjust tactics accordingly. My party attacks X mob, 2 more mobs spawn near healer, healer gains aggro, mobs attack, healer = dead, no thanks :P.

The way I see FFXIV being played is against many enemies but you don't get to "tag" a mob just for your party. More like Besieged style where anyone can attack and assist. Exp is divided among participants depending on contributions and parties would combine contribution, work out exp, boost for party play and then divide among members. Just my 2 cents.

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 6:58am by Feyted

Oh God I hope not. The poor tanks and support classes...

If something like the FFXI Rdm exists, it will almost never advance in group play.

They also said they want you to grow in other ways "not just" killing mobs. This further indicates that killing mobs will be a way to grow, maybe they just add other ways also, (like beseiged, campaign, quests, missions, and other things from the start of the game this time around).

SE already has precedent for character development in an RPG without JP, AP, XP, or any kind of "earned points from mob kills" system at all. I prefer it...enormously...to the point systems I've seen in pretty much every other RPG I've played. That's not to say that point systems are bad, but it is very much to say that point systems aren't necessary.

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 11:37am by AureliusSir

Thanks for all the replies. It's my hunch that we'll have AP awards and an ability system like FFIX, but I have no proof, so I'll stick with 'XP' as a term for now. The reason for my idea to boost monsters at the beginning of a fight is because I think it would be convenient to part and solo for XP in the same place, particularly if you're stuck in a range of five levels or so of things you can kill reasonably and get XP for them. Just because if you're soloing in an area and want to join up with other people soloing in the area, I'd rather stay there than go to another area. Otherwise, sure it makes perfect sense to just party in more difficult areas. The numbers I used were placeholders, they could obviously be adjusted. Maybe this would be better inside an instanced dungeon than in the outside world.

As to the later discussion about XP or whatever for use, FFX-2 might offer a hint. You got some AP (or JP whichever it was in that game) from monsters, almost always 1 each upon defeat, with more for bosses. I got most of my AP from using job abilities during battle. So anytime you're in a fight, using an ability of your current main job gets you an AP/XP. So no harm for red and white mages.

I definitely want to come out against the idea of having a 'chance' to earn points with every swing. I'd rather get less points on every swing, if they were going that route. And I'd want any action, including those of a subjob (or supplemental abilities, however that works) to get XP.

I just had a sudden vision of the FFX sphere grid...

They didn't have levels...

I wonder...

[EDIT]

Also, everyone needs to remember that SE is known for introducing new systems in their games. We are all pointing backwards to other things, for examples of what they might do now.

But no one ever said that they weren't going to design a completely new system--something that is barely represented in any single-player games, let alone MMOs.

For all we know, a "party" is just a chat channel with 6 people in it. They don't share "points" at all.

Just wait and see. I'm sure it'll surprise us.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 3:28pm by idiggory

Isn't FFXI's entire jobsystem ripped off from FF4? They borrow things at times, but it is like you say, they tend to overhaul alot of the growth system and classes from one Final Fantasy to the other.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 4:01pm by muppenz