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Scenario imbalancesFollow

#1 Oct 14 2008 at 2:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I just wanted to know how everyone thought the balance between sides in scenarios was. Judging by other posts it's looking like certain servers have a hard time one way or another by "better" players who have joined one side.
My experience up to level 19 so far is that Order on our server (Mount Silverspear) is more organised. Now this isn't a whine about that because I know that eventually inexperienced pvp players will get better and the sides becasue of population limits will become more equal. Ok got that? Here comes the question...

Should there be a system for putting teams that join a scenario together against each other (or is there one already)?
Reason I ask is because the group size for scenarios is only 25 max even a small group on comms with each other can make a large impact on a scenario.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not suggesting that people shouldn't join in teams (in fact I like that) but if somebody has been queued up for an hour and joins a 15 person game to find their random team is facing a team of 10 guildmates then their Scenario enjoyment is going to be quite limited. I am not quite sure what the best solution here would be. Renown limit for teams? System simply putting biggest group against biggest opposing group? Suggestion....

Edited, Oct 14th 2008 6:21am by Nightlife
#2 Oct 14 2008 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Nightlife wrote:
I just wanted to know how everyone thought the balance between sides in scenarios was. Judging by other posts it's looking like certain servers have a hard time one way or another by "better" players who have joined one side.


Personally I find that in server which I play (Karak Norn) we still have problems with order players. And that is quite strange, because server status shows than we are in balance, but looks like order players ignore scenarios.


Nightlife wrote:
My experience up to level 19 so far is that Order on our server (Mount Silverspear) is more organised. Now this isn't a whine about that because I know that eventually inexperienced pvp players will get better and the sides becasue of population limits will become more equal. Ok got that? Here comes the question...


Same in our server, look like "order" can stick as one team, sadly I can't say the same about "chaos". But in other hand we are "chaos" no teams no organization, only chaos everywhere....


Nightlife wrote:
Should there be a system for putting teams that join a scenario together against each other (or is there one already)?
Reason I ask is because the group size for scenarios is only 25 max even a small group on comms with each other can make a large impact on a scenario.


This skills are not yet developed, I think it's because there still difference in lvl's, but latter when everyone will be at same lvl and "quite equal" organization and communication will play huge role!

About the "system" which you are talking, personally I don't have any ideas...

Nightlife wrote:
Don't get me wrong here, I am not suggesting that people shouldn't join in teams (in fact I like that) but if somebody has been queued up for an hour and joins a 15 person game to find their random team is facing a team of 10 guildmates then their Scenario enjoyment is going to be quite limited. I am not quite sure what the best solution here would be. Renown limit for teams? System simply putting biggest group against biggest opposing group? Suggestion....


Playing with guildmates in same team give you huge advantage, but still if the "other" side can organize themselves quick enough, they easily can win.



Edited, Oct 14th 2008 1:10pm by Snowblast
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#3 Oct 14 2008 at 4:08 AM Rating: Good
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I've seen it go either way. Seems to depend on who you are fighting as well as who is on your own team.

I've been in groups where we destroyed the Order. I've been in some where the Order destroyed us. Playing my Order characters, I notice the same thing.

It could be argued that because there are just soooooooo many destruction players (depending on the server) that you are just that much more likely to run into bad ones. It also seems that many just don't care whether they win or not. They are just there for the points they can get.

I think a larger issue is the lower level players in the scenarios myself. Sure they are bumped to a higher level but they are still sporting a lower damage weapon and lower armor. They also don't have access to the spells that they would at higher levels.

I am not much of a fan of scenarios (by the gods they do get boring) but it is the fastest way to level. World RVR seems to be nonexistent depending on the level and the exp you get from grinding can be really crappy at times as well.
#4 Oct 14 2008 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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On my server it's the usual mix .. sometimes we grind Destro into the muck, sometimes we get ground up. A lot of it depends on the players, obviously, but the actual scenario you are running seems to be significant as well.

Destro seems to rely on the zerg rush of melee with healers and the odd ranged in back-up. If they don't group like that we tend to tear them apart with our concentration of damage dealers. This doesn't matter so much in scenarios like Phoenix Gate ... where having a big Destro zerg to worry about can be negated by steady sneaking off with their flag.

But I will say that RvR outside scenarios is a lot of fun. I've spent quite a few hours fighting over keeps so far. It helps that I'm on an open sever .. so the player population is here mainly to smack players ... but once you haev fought you way through a contested keep and taken it .. the scenarios are established as light hearted messing about for XP. I don't think they need to mess around with the size or scope of scenarios .. or they will become redundant.
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#5 Oct 14 2008 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally despite getting ground into the ground about 50% of the time, order gives as good as it gets. I played last night and won the temple scenario 2 out of 4 times, Stone Troll 1 out of 2 and the Phoenix Gate 2/2 times for the order. So despite seeing my Shadow Assassin Smacked around a bit, it really is not as bad as I personally think when we are losing.

Through the games tend to be very one sided, either side decimating the other side quickly. Through I did have one game that went 498 to 500 for Destruction. So balance wise, we hate to get smacked around but balance is not as big as we perceive. Through I have to wonder, when I see the stats. Afterwards of the Bright Wizard who laid down 75K or damage and we still lost.

My real issue is that Order could use another pure tank type. I think in terms of Tanks Destruction has the better pure tanks, however in DPS I think the edge has to go to ORDER, as they have some great burst DPS. With the right healing my WH can take out most pure tanks. But where we tend to lose on the order side is where you get 5 – 6 Pure Destruction tanks with 5 – 6 healers, then they just cut a path.

A good example is I was playing my 18 Assassin and had a 13 Chaos Tank sit there and laugh at me because 1 on 1 I could not dps him down faster than he was regenerating. Now that is an imbalance, My DPS should be enough to take him down with no healing from his healers. But yet I could not.
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#6 Oct 14 2008 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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You win some, you lose some.
#7 Oct 14 2008 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Ledarr wrote:
18 Assassin

assassin?
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#8 Oct 15 2008 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Shadow Assassin, was just to lazy to type.
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#9 Oct 15 2008 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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Ledarr wrote:
A good example is I was playing my 18 Assassin and had a 13 Chaos Tank sit there and laugh at me because 1 on 1 I could not dps him down faster than he was regenerating. Now that is an imbalance, My DPS should be enough to take him down with no healing from his healers. But yet I could not.

I've run into that as well. Something about those make them hard as **** to kill. Maybe they just have some kind of sick defense against ranged attacks because there were three shadow warriors on him and we still couldn't kill him. Was just nuts.

Wish my BO stood up that well against ranged dps.

Edited, Oct 15th 2008 10:02am by MrTalos
#10 Oct 15 2008 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
15 posts
Ledarr wrote:

My real issue is that Order could use another pure tank type. I think in terms of Tanks Destruction has the better pure tanks, however in DPS I think the edge has to go to ORDER, as they have some great burst DPS. With the right healing my WH can take out most pure tanks. But where we tend to lose on the order side is where you get 5 – 6 Pure Destruction tanks with 5 – 6 healers, then they just cut a path.



lol*, I play destruction and was under the impression that the Order tank (specifically the ironbreaker) was better than either of the destro tanks. I really like the grudge mechanic that forces you to choose a oathfriend. Most destro tanks I know of just pretend they are Melee DPS and charge into the middle of things, and hardly ever use Guard on a random in a scenario. It seems like grudge would help promote teamwork.

*I'm not dissing your opinion just found it amusing as it seems like a grass is always greener on the other side situation.

Edited, Oct 15th 2008 4:45pm by zerj
#11 Oct 15 2008 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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Ledarr wrote:
Shadow Assassin, was just to lazy to type.


Shadow Warrior?
#12 Oct 15 2008 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
From my experience, it is about 50%. I'd even be inclined to say I win more then I lose.

However, it depends on the day. This friday and saturday, Destruction was on fire, I think I won 19 games out of 20. But yesterday, I went 2-9.

It's hard to tell.

Just wish something else then Tor Anroc would pop with any frequency.

Quote:
I've run into that as well. Something about those make them hard as **** to kill. Maybe they just have some kind of sick defense against ranged attacks because there were three shadow warriors on him and we still couldn't kill him. Was just nuts.

Wish my BO stood up that well against ranged dps.


Ironically, Shadow Warrior are pretty much free kill for my Black Orc.

If they play smart and kite me, I'll never touch them... but unless they can fight me for the 5 minutes or so it'll take for them to go throught my 7k hp, 70% damage mitigation and 30% avoidance (22% block, 8% dodge) without interuption, I'll usually have some kind of back up (or they will!) that ends the fight.

However, if I can get in close quarter and snare them once... it's over very quick.

Same goes for Engineer really.

Quote:
My real issue is that Order could use another pure tank type.


As a side note, I think it's a sign that Mythic did something good when people say they need more tank for pvp :)


Edited, Oct 15th 2008 6:50pm by Tyrandor
#13 Oct 15 2008 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
I think it will absolutely vary by server, so this only fits my experiences:

Tier 1: Order has lengthy spurts of few healers or tanks queueing and Nordenwatch pops 10X the others. This also equates to 99% losses for Order. I have seen Order win Nordenwatch, just not lately. Most of the time Destro runs as a group, has 3-4 tanks and 3-6 healing able classes on (and actually healing). They surround the sorceresses and magus with the healers and let the tanks play "me scary you all run back then hit me". Since Order won't support each other and plays hit the orc its just a death parade.

Destro has outranked (average scenario level around 10 vs. 7 for Order) alot this past week. Hopefully this means Order will be stronger next week...


Tier 2: More variety in what pops, still an overabundance of Bright Wizards, Shadow warriors and Witch Hunters. Troll Crossing can be won sometimes by 1-3 folks committed to winning though, especially if Destro is happy to just farm that group in the middle.

I love the scenarios, but aside with running them with guildies only the lower tiers are seeming grim to me.

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