Sell me on WarhammerFollow

You haven't noticed anything that makes WAR stand out, and you have a level 7 Zealot....

Do us a favor. Log off said Zealot, uninstall WAR and go back to the bubble wielding easy mode known as pally in WoW. BTW, grats on 4/6 in SW, but try a real healer like a Priest.

Back to topic, You should have run into Public Quests by now. RvR (PvP) is more in-depth here then in WoW. The whole point of this game is "If it's red, it's dead." The end game isn't about raiding and collecting purples from Lore charaters who's only reason for being bad is "They went Insane." The end game is about killing them all, taking over their city and a real sense of war going on. Yes, you can go without seeing anyone for a while. Guess what, war is like that in real life. War is a few seconds of chaos and killing, followed by lulls of boredom.

In the end, if you realy don't understand what I'm saying, go back up and reread the first four(4) sentences and do what they say. Well, maybe not roll the priest part, since you want the game to be like a movie, keeping your intrested and entertained without having to do something to have a sense of enjoyment. We shouldn't have to sell you on WAR. If it's so Hohum for you, find something else.

Note: I played WoW, 2/6 in SW, as a Holy Priest. GM sleeping with the off tank killed our guild. Niveus, Dethroc. So don't try and tell me raiding is tough. try raiding with 9 heal buttons, instead of 2. GG.

I'll tell you what makes WAR stand out to me ...

Huge PvP battles consisting of two lines of players going at it in a war-like fashion.

You get tanks on the front lines (OMG tanks have a STRONG role in PvP!), melee DPS right behind (or in front of) them, and healers and nukers in the back. Both teams are trying to push the line, while also trying to get around the tanks to the soft targets in the back.

To me, that's the strongest aspect of the game. Everyone has a strong PvP role. There are no bad classes or specs that can not PvP. Each has it's own style and (seemingly) can succeed if played right.

Seeing tanks perform in PvP honest to bob was one of the few things that really interested me, I could see what you are talking about. Then again I played DAoC back in the day and used battering rams to smash keep doors and have epic battles over relics in the RvR zones. Kind of interested in how RvR in Warhammer would progress.

But once again concepts are great, in the end pvp boils down to gameplay and right now it just feels plodding and I havent had a fight that made me enjoy it, and yes as Sioniv pointed out I am early into the game and making generalized calls without seeing the meat and potatoes is bad which is why I am looking for the feed back cause where the first time I stepped into a BG in WoW when they were released I had fun and enjoyed myself, and even years later in the same boring BG's I get good fights in Warhammer I just felt detached and like I honestly was playing WoW again only with a different skin and a few new tricks.

You do have to keep in mind the game has been out 2 weeks, and you're comparing it to a multi-million members behemoth who has been around 3 years and his releasing it's second expansion pack.

To put things into perspective, this many days in the WoW launch, my server was still down. >_>


Now that being said, I wonder if you're not simply stuck on the mindset that WoW is better no matter what. There's no harm in this and I do echo the first poster's feeling - we shouldn't have to sell you on it. If you don't like it, don't play it. And I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Has a level 7 Zealot, you should already have 3 offensive moves and 3 heals. Which in many way gives you as many 'actual' abilities as most healer get in WoW for pvp (certainly more then the pld did...). In 1 more level you're going to get your Morale, which does change the way the game play as well as your Mark, which are the unique mechanism of the zealot. If the rotation is simple, then the rotation in WoW must have been childish >_>.

And yes, of course it changes Bod.

On my Black Orc, I have so many USEFUL ability that I'm running out of keybind spot. I got 1-2-3-4-E-Q-F-V and a Shift version of every one of those. I never had to keybind more then that on my Rogue, and you know what? Half of those were for PVE mobes anyway... But on my BO, I'm still getting more and now I honestly don't even know where to put em... I guess I'm going to have to add in CTRL+ or Alt+ even tho I feel those are in totally unnatural spot for my hand.

At level 11, you also start getting use of tactics and Masteries (talent :P)... and while at first they don't really change much, once you get enough to unlock new abilities or when you get your second Tactic Slot, then your character can really become customizable and your own.

Scenario imo, are nothing but dry... hell, the one in Tier 1 are essentially the equivalent in complexity to the WoW BG (save AV I guess), but you'll get more that are bigger and more complex has you level anyway. I mean I'm sick of BGs... I think I droned on about that enough in the WoW forums, but I'm having a blast in Scenarios.

Mind you, maybe it's because I'm playing a tank... and I actually get to experience the wonder of collision detection and tanking ability that matter in pvp and to play a class that is what WoW's warrior should have been... but I was personally hooked after a few levels.

Is the game better than WoW? Right now, no, of course not.

Is it better than WoW was at release? Yes.

It has the potential to be the better game.

Edited, Oct 5th 2008 1:47pm by Tyrandor

Heh, I dunno about you, but I came to WoW from FFXI... that was not a tough act to follow, WoW could have been 10 time worse then it was and I probably still would have been knocked on my ass.

Now you're 'leaving' was it admittedly a great game for what is a good game with a potential for greatness.

When I bought a XBox360 to replace my Xbox, I was psyched at out much better it was. A year later, when I added an PS3 to my home theater, I thought it was cool, but I wasn't exactly blown away.

That being said, there is the very real possibility that the game isn't for you. I know right now I'll be happy if I never see an instant or raid again, I'm having way to much fun in Keep fights ;p... and what I read about Wintergrasp (altho to be fair, I have not experienced it yet) make it sounds like 'WAR-lite' more then anything else.


Edited, Oct 5th 2008 4:01pm by Tyrandor

ftfy :). I think WoW will remain PVE king for a long time to come, but that's irrelevant to the pvp player.


Bod, I think Tyr is right, you are comparing it too much to WoW as it is now. You can't look at how you feltW about the transition 4 years ago. Let's be honest, most MMO players are spoiled by the level of polish that WoW has.

But WoW is the better game right now, so with that said, war is a great game.



Right now you are still in Tier 1. When I moved into Tier 2, I definitely noticed the evolution. Players now looked geared up, instead of the half naked lvl 1 toons you see in tier 1. More crazy spell and morale abilities everywhere. All classes have more of their abilities, further defining their roles.

Yea, compared to tier 2, tier 1 is bland.



The game may not be for you in the end, because at heart you're PVEer, right? (not bad thing at all!) And wow honestly, has the superior PVE and one their PVP is top notch too. Smooth flow and everything. Classes are filled out.

So WoW has great pvp gameplay feel, but the fact that warhammer has PVP mind set built right into the heart of the game has me hooked. The fact that I can jump into pvp right at lvl 1 and LEVEL from it has me hooked. This game is a blast and I am loving Tier 2 so far.

Yeah, I'm starting to like the queuing.

By the way, does anyone know what the Auto-queue thing you can enable in the game settings does? There's no tooltip for the setting so I haven't been able to find out.

To be honest Maz, I'm utterly confused at your comment here...

The Q'ing system means I can hit 1, 2, 3 with a 1 second pause in between. The mad 11111111 spam of Sinister Strike is much more 'keybind smashing' then WAR is in the first place, heck even playing a Warrior or Ret Pld is basically all about smashing your rotation ahead of time to be sure you don't miss out on .1 second of dps.

Are you playing Warhammer: Age of Reckoning? Did they ship you some crazy danish game instead or something? I mean, the issue you're talking about doesn't exist in WAR. That'd be like saying 'What I really have about WoW is how you lose xp when you die'.

Here I have to assume you have some key smashing compulsion that force you to spam the key even tho you don't need to - but that's not a problem with the game.


As for the rest of the post...

You don't want to spam the same key (Not to mention that if all you do is smash the same key over and over again, you'll be doing a terrible job, but I disgress)... but you don't like the BO's system which force you to alternate between abilities.

So what exactly do you want? Because you seem to dislike both end of the spectrum equally.

Maybe try not playing a melee class? Any class with cast time on it's ability further reduce the button smashing factor.

And there's really no difference between Action Point and Energy/Rage/Mana... with the key difference that you can never run out of it.

Edited, Oct 5th 2008 4:17pm by Tyrandor

De-rail:

Auto-queue also automatically puts you in queue for Scenario when you go into an RvR lake. So waltzing into the Ekrund RvR will auto-queue you for Gates of Ekrund. It doesn't queue your party, though. So if you have auto-queue on, and you are playing Scenarios with a group, you might want to ensure that the rest of your group mates got the queue when yours pops up.

/derail

yeah, getting more abilities really help increase the fun factor. i didnt feel like i was really playing witch elf until 18, when i got my root/snare break/immunity skill. that and my silence turned me into a real eater-of-squishies. now i can take down a squishy solo as long as no one notices me until after my first frenzy is used. if i can get that off, i can usually do a switch-silence to stop any heals and finish off my main target before i go down (assuming all the backline dps and healers pile on me like they usually do).

As a Chaos Chosen, I pretty much only use one or two attacks (at the moment, I'm sure there'll be more neat things along the road). One applies a debuff, I think, and the other does damage. I realize now that using the word 'spam' was a bad idea, because what I really meant was that you hit the same keys over, and over, and over. The 1.5s global cooldown coupled with the queue system does indeed mean you don't literally spam the keyboard, but you do hit the same keys a lot more than on, say, a Warrior in Warcraft.



I'll try to explain it.

I don't want to hit the same button 20+ times in a fight. Okay, that was a bit unrealistic. I don't want to hit the same button 10+ times in a fight. Right now, because of the low damage you do compared to the health of the mobs, as a guy wielding a sword bigger than himself, I have to use my damaging attacks up to 10 times on an equal leveled mob.

Maybe if they increased the damage dealt by the attack and increased the amount of action points it cost? I'd have to hit the buttons less, but I'd still lose a fair chunk of action points.

And to explain the "builder" mechanic of the Black Orc, it's not that I dislike having to use different abilities. I just don't like that the game dictates which attacks I get to use when. Right now, my rotation consists of: basic attack ability -> DoT ability -> free attack ability. Not a bad rotation, right, because the third ability costs 0 action points and does a fair amount of damage.

However. The DoT does not run out before I can apply another basic attack and I can't skip the DoT and go straight for the free damaging attack. The Warlock in me is crying "You're doing it wrong!" whenever I apply a DoT on a DoT that's only halfway through its run. I believe the DoT also has a snare effect and the old WoW PvP'er in me is crying out loud at the thought of a Wing Clip/Hamstring that needs you to apply a Raptor/Heroic Strike to your target before you can use it. Especially in this game where everyone gets a Dash/Sprint ability.

Trying to snare a target on the run is nigh impossible, because due to latency and Flee, by the time I get the basic attack in on the person, he's out of range for the DoT/snare attack.

The Flee ability is really getting on my nerves, especially when you're fighting someone who can kill you from afar. Like a Shadow Warrior or whatever they're called. The bastard just runs off and by the time I get to him, he's planted ten arrows in my face.

*wheeze*

I think that was all.

I have found that most of the classes really shine through at levels 9 and 10. Then you really start getting some of your really cool skills. Rune Priest was easy for me to get into really quickly, but Witch Hunter took me a little longer. The problem may just be that the class isn't for you.

As far as RvR goes, as you progress they become much more involved. Also, when you talk about RvR, are you talking about the scenarios, the RvR areas, or both? I really enjoy that there are different ways for you to play against other players.

The PQs in some areas are a little dull sometimes, but some are just awesome. I ran into my first PQ the other day on my Rune Priest where we had to compete with Destruction players in order to do the PQ... it was great. You could flag yourself for RvR and take on the players as well as the mobs, or you could just stay focused on the mobs.

I think that the coolest thing about WAR so far though, is that everything you do affects your allies and such: gaining experience and doing quests helps your guild gain rank AND helps the main cities gain rank. It was so awesome when Altdorf gained a rank yesterday. It really makes you feel like you are helping more than just yourself.

Generic PvP battlefield at L7? lol Ya think they are going to dump tons of resources into levels you spend all of 1-2 game days playing? What kind of PvP did you have in WoW at L7? Generic beats NONE. As does any game at startup, WAR has some issues. None seem fatal. As anyone who played DAoC can tell you, Mythic is the hand's down KING of RvR/PvP. If you want to experience the full flavor of this game, play on an Open RvR server. In WOW, RvR was an obvious after-thought. WOW is PvE based with just enough RvR to keep people from leaving. WAR is RvR based with PvE available for gear choices and wimps who hate the joy of REAL battle. Anyone can beat a computer mob - it's consistently prevailing against HUMAN opponents that is difficult. Computer mobs always do the same thing. Be it solo or grop, you se what they do and devise a plan that beats them everytime. Humans don't do that. They do things so well or so strange, they are hard to devise formulaic strategies to defeat them consistently. Plus that, their force composition and abilities are constantly in a state of flux. What works this time won't work next time. THAT makes the game infinitely more fun. If you want to mindlessly mash buttons, play WOW. If you want to actually have to think to win, play WAR.

By the way, to the poster who questions the reasoning behind attack chains, this is actually VERY realistic. Think in terms of a boxer using a jab to set up another type of punch. Or a pitcher using a fastball to set up a curve. Or a duelist using a thrust to setup some other move. In hand to hand combat, that is what happens: certain moves are used to setup other moves. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Maybe my experiance is limmited... TNNs Shadows of Yserbius and Fates of Twinnion prior to Ultima... Then EQ, random MMos, then FFXI, WoW, EQ2, more random MMOs, then EVE...

Any way for me FFXI had the BEST story and player content... c;mon, not redoing hundred of hours of play to start a new job, because you can change classes at any time? Brilliant! At the same time the game is so consuming it puts you off. Enter WoW... solo to near CAP, minimal story, but you NEED friends to enjoy it. Now enter EVE (yeah not even an MMORPG) 1 server, learn skills (level up) in your off time... great!... not so.


I won't go into depth, but long term (of which TSN/INN's Shadows of Yserbius took a year+ of my life at age 11 or so, and FFXI took about 4 years) WAR is the best game I've played. I have less than 2 weeks in the thing, after a week delayed start (I'm living overseas at the moment)... And I play MAYBE 1-4 hours a week... I don't ever feel like I'm falling behind. As a Rank 16 Shadow Warrior I can kill a rank 20 whatever in RvR via the scenario Que... yes in the "real world" RvR I'd have to run my sack off, but that's not the point for me. I can put as little or as much as Iwant into this game and at the end of the week, it IS going to satisfy me.

I couldn't be happier. I miss my friends in FFXI. No doubt. However, I don't miss NEEDING to play a game. Mythic can have my money as long as this game runs because of 2 things. 1, I don't feel bound. And 2, I'm Military, I get deployed. While I might get a lucky log in now and then, I can't get the badwith to play. I know if I deploy for 1/2-1 year when I get home I'll still be able to compete at a level I'm happy with. That's a hard to beat stement with MMOs.

Ok, I have to admit when I first saw details on the whole RvR system I was very hesitant about getting the game. My previous PvP experiences in WoW have not been what I would call fun. When your a level 10 hunter getting thrashed by a level 40 player who then spends the next half hour saying your crap and how easily he beat you then constantly chases you down everytime you log on is not very sporting.

However, the other day I had the "abilities issue" and could only play properly in RvR Scenarios. I loved it! People are all roughly around the same level range so no overpowered immature asshat thinking he's king of the hill because he can beat someone thirty levels lower than himself. There's no gloating or serious put-downs, it actually feels like fun and when you do get beaten you don't feel like logging off, your compelled to go back and take on the guy that just killed you. In fact one scenario I spent chasing after a witch elf who then chased after me after I killed her, killed me, so I went back after her again, and vice versa. It was actually quite funny as towards the end the other players didn't touch us, they just let us hunt each other down.

I now spend a lot of time doing scenarios as it's a great way to level your character outside of the questing grind and gives you more of a feel for the game, after all, we are at war.

Get up into your teens and start doing the RvR zones, not just the bg's. Taking keeps and defending them is what it's all about.

On Bechafen there have already been at least 100 vs. 60 or so. I placed 111th in a Keep siege.

It better not work that way..
That would suck ass. It sucked in AOC and it would suck in this game too.
I have been in 700 person PVE battles before and it runs on a PS2. So your argument is kind of fail on front.

I want to see 700+ people doing epic PVP battles in a burning city now...

That would make WOW look pretty sh*tty if we can see that happening in War hehe.. Would be an amazing win for Mythic if they don't screw that up.

Edited, Oct 8th 2008 6:04pm by TheCastle

Edited, Oct 8th 2008 6:06pm by TheCastle

Yea I'm not 100% on that which is why I asked for someone to correct me if I'm wrong. I read it on some other forum, so, it might not be real.

I don't think it was a duel. He just ganked a lowbie who was probably in a contested zone then used emotes /taunt or /spit to insult the level 10.

Anyways, I play WOW and thinking of switching over. I stopped raiding and I am getting bored thanks to all who posted I think I will move over to do more pvp!

The simple fact that you can start pvping from lv 1 all the way up to lv cap really does it for me. Also in the same catagory that you gain experience from pvp. This is a true pvp game just from that alone, and that's good enough for me.


And yes, if they added a lv 1-9 battlegrounds to WOW..aswell as a couple more for every level range..and completing a battleground gave you a considerable amount of XP toward your next level..then I'd still probably be a WoW addict. heh

If you are still reading this thread, here are my thoughts and experiences so far as a 28 Bright Wizard. The first 10 levels or so were fun just cause the game was something new. The graphics are beautiful too, especially if you have a beefy computer to run it at a high rez.

The classes at the lower levels weren't really inspiring. I'm playing a Bright Wizard.. I had a 67 Mage in WoW. Starting off they played very similar, with one exception. In WAR Bright's have a combustion meter.. Every spell you cast raises it.. The high it is the more often you crit, and the more damage your crits do. But it has the drawback that as it increases your chance of an explosion increases, so you can blow yourself up if you aren't careful. So I found it to be a very fun mechanic to monitor, trying to maximize my damage without exploding so much that I kill myself. Every class has some kind of mechanic to master, though I have not played a Zealot so can't comment on them. The spell rotation at low levels was simple, but at 8 you get your first morale ability, and at 11 you start getting tactics. And those are what start to set the game apart. Tactics are pretty much permanent buffs, that you can change between fights. By level 40, I think you can use 4 career tactics at once, but maybe only 3. Morale abilities become fun in RVR, cause a tier 3 morale ability can really turn the tide of a skirmish. I don't have any Tier 4 abilities yet, but they are even more powerful.

The first few public quests I did didn't amaze me. But I thought the idea had potential. But by the time you get into your 20's there are some really cool ones, where the last chapters you and up fighting some big hero demons. You of course need a group to complete any of them, but if you can get a group of about 5 people you should be able to complete most the PQ's up to level 30.. and some of them are a lot of fun.

Scenarios aren't too much different than WoW, except for a coupel things. You get XP toward leveling up, and can get loot drops.. I have seen plenty of blues drop, and even a couple purples in Scenarios. Not to mention your renown points are a major part of building your character. Renown unlocks better gear (especially at lvl 40), RvR tactics and stat bonuses, and at very high level t gives you bonus skill mastery points.

Open RvR hasn't really matured yet. The lower tiers people are mostly leveling so there aren't a lot of keep sieges. But taking over a keep gives you a loot roll, just like completing a PQ, and there is usually a purple drop for capping a keep, not to mention a good chunk of renown. Then of course in tier 4.. once enough people get there, is when the real war starts and you get the opportunity to capture and raze the enemy city, and fight and capture their king. My understanding is the reward for actually capping a King are quite impressive.

Also, the Tome of Knowledge I have had a ton of fun with. There are thousands of unlocks. Some are tedious like killing 10,000 of a certain creature. Some are wierd like getting a title granted for clicking yourself 5,000 times. But there are a lot of hidden things across the game world to find that give you various unlocks, for titles, tactics, and trophys, and who knows what else.

Trophies are also kinda cool. Kill enough of a certain enemy, or complete a certain task and you can get an award to display on your equipment. I got one for killing 1000 Chaos players, and now have a medal to display on my chest because of it.

My advice, give it a few more levels. Try some new things, and then decide what you think. And it's really hard to judge the game until people start doing massive tier 4 keep raids with 50-100 people on each side... That's when the serious fun starts.

Is there a way to get a refund for the two month prepaid game card? I'll gladly give it away to someone if they can. I can't believe anyone could enjoy this game after playing it for a week. I'll contact Mythic and see. And I also have to find someone to give my 51 gold to, but I think I know a few ppl in the game that might want it. lol@ 51 gold in a week and half, btw, with nearly nothing to spend it on.

Edited, Oct 11th 2008 4:04am by TimelessOMO