Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Older content is easier with SoA gearFollow

#1 Sep 30 2013 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
Avatar
******
20,239 posts
This is a no brainer, but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

My little knot of remaining in game friends has decided to get everyone Captain rank, since it's one of the last things we all missed out on. We did two Assaults on Saturday, Extermination and Lebros Supplies. Both of these were considerably easier than I remembered them.

The difference, of course, is that our level 99 characters are completely decked out in level 106-113 gear. So an Assault that was a struggle to finish with six level 60-75 people is a cake walk with 4-5 level 99ers in SoA gear.

Same thing goes with the Meebles burrows fights. We were able to steamroll through the final boss in Batalia Downs on Saturday, when even at 99 prior to SoA the bosses there gave us trouble. Some of the rewards are now deprecated, but I got a really nice STR+6 ring that allowed me to sell off an augmented Ruby ring I'd been using for the last year or so.

So for those who are bemoaning SoA and how repetative it is, don't forget to go back and complete some of the older content now. You'd be surprised how fun it is when you can just mow through it.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and leader of Grammarian Tea House chat LS
#2 Sep 30 2013 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,287 posts
Just don't do that one Mamool Ja Staging point one where the mamools have to WS through you to break the doors with level 113 weapons.... :P
#3 Sep 30 2013 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
9,242 posts
I don't have SoA stuff to make other stuff easier... lol. I'll come back maybe if they server merge - but until then there is not enough to do - no shouts - no chance to get gear... (though I might sub for one month just to get my free cruor before the end of the abyssea extravaganza)

Edited, Sep 30th 2013 2:27pm by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

clicky
#4 Sep 30 2013 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,183 posts
Quote:
I don't have SoA stuff to make other stuff easier... lol. I'll come back maybe if they server merge - but until then there is not enough to do - no shouts - no chance to get gear... (though I might sub for one month just to get my free cruor before the end of the abyssea extravaganza)


Not even skirmish shouts? I see a lot more of those than delve shouts nowadays, and skirmish gear is much easier to acquire.
#5 Sep 30 2013 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
121 posts
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
I don't have SoA stuff to make other stuff easier... lol. I'll come back maybe if they server merge - but until then there is not enough to do - no shouts - no chance to get gear... (though I might sub for one month just to get my free cruor before the end of the abyssea extravaganza)


Not even skirmish shouts? I see a lot more of those than delve shouts nowadays, and skirmish gear is much easier to acquire.


Skirmish weapons and augments are faster and easier to get to their best or close to their best stats. The only reason to do Delve anymore is to hopefully get into a group that can make it to the boss room. Even then the plasm is better spent on the delve boss weapons than airlixers. The only real things to farm in delve anymore are Smn satchel (I-113), Alternator, Manibozo parts for +Range Atk augments, Rigors for Pup, Bow for Rng & Sam, Jug pets, Range amo, and a weapon to aug eva for Nin/Thf/DNc (off hand or main). If plasm isnt that important, Airlixers are much better farmed off the Matamata in Morimar with the right low man set up. Even with 18 people you can cycle groups between tanking+TH, pop farming and dealing with umbrils at night. That'll give room for a Blm nuke and ensure 3~ 4 Mnk's will almost always have formeless ready.

However I think that the future upgrades to R/M/E weapons might give older or returning players a workaround so they don't need to go through the headache of trying to farm Delve or Skirmish way after the fact. Now whether or not they will upgrade AF/ Rel/ Emp armor is to be seen.. WIth that said I wouldnt mind an upgrade to our origional Af weapons to make them on par with Geo and Run Af weapons. That would save time on alot of farming early on in Adoulin for temp weapons untill you can get the higher grade stuff.
#6 Oct 01 2013 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
*
204 posts
I thought it was said that Empy armor was to get brought upto the same types of level as GEO and RUN armor stats are?

My biggest, and perhaps single most concern is if non-99 E M R weapons will get a boost as there is still no realistic way for me to get a 99 Empy weapon, VW is dead and if this update does not help bring me closer to delve weapon owners then I don't see the point in carrying on playing.

I cant get into any delve shouts to obtain the weapons I want as i don't have one of the weapons in the first place that shouters demand... its a stupid system and i have been bored for a few months now, but hanging in there hoping my lvl 90 Empy weapon gets a stat/dmg boost.

Delve weapons have somewhat spoiled things, in my opinion, it is hugely unbalanced and hugely unfair, if you dont have one its very hard to get in a shout to obtain one, and i believe a lot of people have quit/stopped playing as a result of it... if nothing is done it just could be the straw that puts the camels back under an awful lot of pressure.

This next update is so very vital for SE to get right... its important for everyone really, not just E M R owners, if you lose a large part of the population it hurts everyone else and ultimately the games future itself.

Come on SE, get this right please.



Edited, Oct 1st 2013 8:41am by Danseurfabuleux
#7 Oct 01 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Default
**
697 posts
It all goes back to the same old thing, if you want or need a run, then make your own shout. It's not hard and you should take some responsibility for your seeking your own fun. There is no good reason to be bored in this game.

There is absolutely no need for server merges, at least not here on Bismark. At least 1200-1700 on each and every morning over the last week. It is only during the evenings when the numbers drop to a fraction of that.

Back on topic of older content with SoA gear, if we want a repeat of the fiasco of trying to camp empyrean weapon trigger mobs with lots and lots of people on the same server then by all means,

merge servers
and
carry on
____________________________
Shadechaos of Seraph Bismarck
R.I.P. Cindy 2.26.56 - 4.18.13
~She made a difference~
#8 Oct 01 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
****
4,210 posts
I agree delve weapons killed FFXI, and what's worse, they had to know it was going to happen. This isn't SE's first rodeo, they've been keeping this game extremely well-balanced (probably better balanced than any other MMO ever released) up until Adoulin, then blammo they blew it all up just as FFXIV:ARR was released. Coincidence? I don't think so.

The balance in this game was mind-blowing. Throughout over 10 years of the game, the balance was maintained almost impeccably. SE had a better grasp on this than any other game developer, it's like they actually play tested every single subtle change until they felt it was perfect. Stuff was literally perfect at release most of the time, not like most games where it's released and the patched and patched and patched until it doesn't even resemble what it originally was anymore.

I can remember only a few major changes to the game over that decade. The first I can remember was an adjustment to TP returns on weaponskills to prevent people from getting like 70 TP on Penta. The next big adjustment was to ranged damage, they made it dependent on your distance from the target and I think a few other changes because RNGs were just dominating everything. Lastly, I think they made a change to Utsusemi so you still lose hate even if you evade an attack, because NIN tanks were dominating and even PLDs were subbing NIN everywhere. After that it has been smooth sailing until around the time of Abyssea. Just three major changes in over a decade. Up until Adoulin, if you had invested a lot of time into something, odds are it would still be useful 8+ years later. Now there's very little from pre-Abyssea that matters anymore. There's just a bunch of situational gear spread out across 10 years of content, spread so thin that nobody can find help for anything that can't be soloed.

I think we can partially blame Abyssea's success. It was very popular among players, and it was the first step along this path of destroying old, challenging content to make room for newer, more casual content. I absolutely hated Abyssea from square one, and I knew this is the path it would lead us down. This has been inevitable ever since the praise was showered on SE for Abyssea's success.

All players want them to fix R/E/M, I'd say 90% of the players rate it as the single most important thing right now, but I'm not convinced SE agrees. I'm not convinced SE is ready to do that without very carefully crafting the situation to be more casual and easily-accessible, such as making it easier to get mythic weapons, and easier to get any type of weapon to Lv99. Which of course is not really what the players want, but it's what SE thinks is best for the game. SE just isn't on the same wavelength as FFXI players anymore, and they don't seem to care either. They seem content to change the entire nature of the game from rewarding long-term commitment to goals (and friends) into a casual, self-serving romp. FFXIV is their new baby, anyway.
____________________________
Pergatory (Asura, Kupo LS) WHM99 ~ SMN99 ~ DRK99
"If you want to know me, look inside your heart." -Lao Tzu
#9 Oct 01 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,535 posts
If you can't get into delve without a delve weapon, level Geo. I leveled Geo out of the gate, for fun, and now I can get in lots of shouts for Delve. I got into two last night.

Just make sure to cap your skills!!
____________________________
Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
#10 Oct 01 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
*
204 posts
Sorry when i said i was bored i should have been more specific, and said i was bored of trying to get into delve runs and not meeting the criteria of BRD 3-4 songs or MNK (oats) onry !

Really enjoyed reading your post Pergatory, i hope SE isn't tryng to deliberately force us out.
#11 Oct 01 2013 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
4,233 posts
If you can't get in as a melee, the standards for COR and GEO being invited are incredibly low. And a good WHM is always needed.
____________________________
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
#12 Oct 01 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
**
609 posts
I haven't played the game since July since everyone I knew just stopped playing. I got overwhelmed about how much gear I lack despite I played the game almost every day.
#13 Oct 01 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
**
916 posts
Pergatory wrote:


All players want them to fix R/E/M, I'd say 90% of the players rate it as the single most important thing right now, but I'm not convinced SE agrees. I'm not convinced SE is ready to do that without very carefully crafting the situation to be more casual and easily-accessible, such as making it easier to get mythic weapons, and easier to get any type of weapon to Lv99..



Mythic weapons are still one of the harder weapons to get today and this needs to be sorted out or people just won't do the content at all.
____________________________
Lu Shangs Fishing Rod obtained: Feb 2005
Maat's cap Obtained: Saturday 31st July 2010
Ebisu Fishing Rod Obtained: Sunday 8th August 2010
#14 Oct 01 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
**
574 posts
Pergatory wrote:
I agree delve weapons killed FFXI, and what's worse, they had to know it was going to happen. This isn't SE's first rodeo, they've been keeping this game extremely well-balanced (probably better balanced than any other MMO ever released) up until Adoulin, then blammo they blew it all up just as FFXIV:ARR was released. Coincidence? I don't think so.

The balance in this game was mind-blowing. Throughout over 10 years of the game, the balance was maintained almost impeccably. SE had a better grasp on this than any other game developer, it's like they actually play tested every single subtle change until they felt it was perfect. Stuff was literally perfect at release most of the time, not like most games where it's released and the patched and patched and patched until it doesn't even resemble what it originally was anymore.

I can remember only a few major changes to the game over that decade. The first I can remember was an adjustment to TP returns on weaponskills to prevent people from getting like 70 TP on Penta. The next big adjustment was to ranged damage, they made it dependent on your distance from the target and I think a few other changes because RNGs were just dominating everything. Lastly, I think they made a change to Utsusemi so you still lose hate even if you evade an attack, because NIN tanks were dominating and even PLDs were subbing NIN everywhere. After that it has been smooth sailing until around the time of Abyssea. Just three major changes in over a decade. Up until Adoulin, if you had invested a lot of time into something, odds are it would still be useful 8+ years later. Now there's very little from pre-Abyssea that matters anymore. There's just a bunch of situational gear spread out across 10 years of content, spread so thin that nobody can find help for anything that can't be soloed.

I think we can partially blame Abyssea's success. It was very popular among players, and it was the first step along this path of destroying old, challenging content to make room for newer, more casual content. I absolutely hated Abyssea from square one, and I knew this is the path it would lead us down. This has been inevitable ever since the praise was showered on SE for Abyssea's success.

All players want them to fix R/E/M, I'd say 90% of the players rate it as the single most important thing right now, but I'm not convinced SE agrees. I'm not convinced SE is ready to do that without very carefully crafting the situation to be more casual and easily-accessible, such as making it easier to get mythic weapons, and easier to get any type of weapon to Lv99. Which of course is not really what the players want, but it's what SE thinks is best for the game. SE just isn't on the same wavelength as FFXI players anymore, and they don't seem to care either. They seem content to change the entire nature of the game from rewarding long-term commitment to goals (and friends) into a casual, self-serving romp. FFXIV is their new baby, anyway.



What was really all that hard back in the good old day. Sucking up to the LS leader enough to get W.legs or kitty pants or finding your self in your 5th or 6th Endgame LS because the leaders and cronies got what they were after and broke the shell and you got stuck with the scraps if you were lucky. Long term goals was doing the same boring fight for the 1000th for a 5% chance at something good then either lotting against the whole ally or getting told you can't lot that cause some BS excuse. When abyssea hit the 5 or so friends you had in a LS were all you needed, no more did you have to watch that guy you hated with all your being lot something you were after. So it didn't promote friend ship it promoted putting up with a Whole lot of **** because your were next in line on something or some day soon you might get what you were after.

Really I can only think of two events the avg scrub LS couldn't do, Ein was to random on what you would get and ground HNM for reason well know by all. Could add DL but it any LS doing it would be giving up a run just to do it and the avg dyna LS wouldn't give up a northlands just for a small shot at a ring and mantle for the plds. If they did well another exp. of the many working for the benefit of the few.

The real truth of it is for many FFXI was their first MMO so they put up with a lot of crap, and some were diehard fanboys of Final Fantasy and only pick up the game because of it. People that have left with abyssea or SoA were already thinking of leaving but their attachment to the gear that was the top was so strong they felt they couldn't just give it up you know all that work that their LS mates put into it for the ones that were not total tools, but then bam SE gave them the very reason they needed. Hard fact is this is a 11 year old game and as if you think it is dieing fast now then what would have happen if it was the same old 5% drop rate sucking up to someone fest of the old days.
____________________________
.
#15 Oct 01 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
2,869 posts
akudama wrote:
Skirmish weapons and augments are faster and easier to get to their best or close to their best stats. The only reason to do Delve anymore is to hopefully get into a group that can make it to the boss room. Even then the plasm is better spent on the delve boss weapons than airlixers. The only real things to farm in delve anymore are Smn satchel (I-113), Alternator, Manibozo parts for +Range Atk augments, Rigors for Pup, Bow for Rng & Sam, Jug pets, Range amo, and a weapon to aug eva for Nin/Thf/DNc (off hand or main).


Huh? There are still lots of non-boss Delve items worth farming and upgrading. Besides the stuff you mentioned:

* Offhand weapons for any dual-wield job: Izhiikoh and STR (not AGI/eva) Aphotic Kukri is still the best DD dagger set for THF and DNC, BLU still needs an offhand sword to pair with Bura, etc.

* Some jobs don't yet have a boss weapon: COR is a good example with a bunch of choices - probably want to be able to DW Delve daggers/swords for melee, and will also want Surefire Arquebus unless they have a pricey and rare Donderbuss. Delve katanas are very good for NIN even if they're second place to expensive crafted Pamun.

* Lots of good accessories to buy: Earring sets, Asperity Necklace, oddball stuff like Automaton regen back, etc.

* The Delve upgradable armors are still quite good, beating Skirmish gear in a lot of cases. I'm not too familiar with the mage/heavy DD options, but Manibozho certainly isn't useful for ranged only: legs, feet, body are still best in slot choices for melees for certain situations (TP, WS, acc focused sets, etc).

* Besides boss weapons, there are several best-in-slot armor/accessories from the mega bosses. So save that plasm in case you can't get the direct drop once you finally break through and get Delve boss wins, you'll probably need it.

Don't get me wrong, Skirmish gear (and the +1 weapons) is good and at the very least is a respectable stepping stone even if it's not the absolute best piece. Sometimes it clearly IS the best piece. And it's stupid easy to get with generous drop rates and wing drops. But I'm disappointed with people who just lazily assume it's the best and 5/5 it for everything. Especially the people I see waaaay too often running around with un-augmented skirmish armor (really, you can't even toss a single 10k NQ stone at it to get SOMETHING for an augment?) Also worth mentioning that in many cases, in order for Skirmish armor to beat other non-Skirmish options it requires very good augments, so you're going to need great luck or a ton of gil burning stones for that super rare DA+2% or whatever.

RaiseIII wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
I don't have SoA stuff to make other stuff easier... lol. I'll come back maybe if they server merge - but until then there is not enough to do - no shouts - no chance to get gear... (though I might sub for one month just to get my free cruor before the end of the abyssea extravaganza)

Not even skirmish shouts? I see a lot more of those than delve shouts nowadays, and skirmish gear is much easier to acquire.

It all goes back to the same old thing, if you want or need a run, then make your own shout. It's not hard and you should take some responsibility for your seeking your own fun. There is no good reason to be bored in this game.


But yeah, this. Certainly if you're complaining that you don't have decent gear and there are no shouts, you're not trying very hard. Even a less than 6/6 party with Bayld gear and no Delve weapons should EASILY be able to take care of a 1/1/1 Yorcia Skirmish, and it's my experience that there are plenty of Skirmish shouts, and plenty of people willing to join if you start a shout. It's not super job-dependent, and doesn't need a meticulously planned 18/18 alliance. Get yourself some Skirmish armor/weapons and you're in pretty good shape in current endgame.

Yes, players still have very specific Delve requirements to get into shouts, especially for dime-a-dozen DDs. That brings with it some problems. But you can do a ton of stuff with easy to get Skirmish gear, like being completely overpowered for any pre-SoA content (back to Catwho's original point from this topic, which I totally agree with - I've also been having a lot of fun doing stuff like Meebles and Limbus lately).

Edited, Oct 1st 2013 5:15pm by Anza
____________________________
Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#16 Oct 01 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,587 posts
I see we're back to believing everyone had (max level) RMEs and the reason why the game's suffering is because they "suck" now. Nope.

Ignoring the order SE's released SoA content tiers, the big cause of the game's decline from the VW era and later has been the focus on alliance content with VW, Legion, and Delve. F80+ Neo-Nyzul gear was basically out of reach for most. Salvage was basically super grind unfriendly. SoA-launch Skirmish was basically inaccessible due to statue requirements and 2.0 comes "too late" for the "pros" to care because they did Delve already.

Smaller groups had basically been SOL, and as much as some want to blame Abyssea for supporting this style, it gave people things to do without setting rigid schedules or needing the absolute perfect parties and strategies. Daily lockouts need(ed) to go, like with Dynamis, Meebles, and so on. Unsurprisingly, the absence of such worked for Delve, but XI's pace of content development just isn't what it needs to be to keep people away from other games offering more or new things. The crazy desire to keep RMEs on top is very much part of the trap that's chased people away with the dislike of grinding the same otherwise pointless content daily.

The "Delve Onry!" BS can easily go the way of the dodo with reasonably made crafted weapons for all classes, fair continuation/consolidation of the magian paths, or heaven forbid, actual questing that rewards gear. Telling people to level jobs they hate or have no interest in is never the answer and, yup, can chase people off, too.
#17 Oct 01 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,183 posts
Quote:
I think we can partially blame Abyssea's success. It was very popular among players, and it was the first step along this path of destroying old, challenging content to make room for newer, more casual content. I absolutely hated Abyssea from square one, and I knew this is the path it would lead us down. This has been inevitable ever since the praise was showered on SE for Abyssea's success.


I think Abyssea did things a lot better though. Starting from scratch, there was a LOT to do, particularly if your aim was getting some empy weapons.

With things like Delve, all it takes it hopping on a few good runs, possibly even just one, to get what you want.
#18 Oct 01 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
643 posts
RaiseIII wrote:
It all goes back to the same old thing, if you want or need a run, then make your own shout. It's not hard and you should take some responsibility for your seeking your own fun. There is no good reason to be bored in this game.

If somebody has never done a run, do you really think they would make their own? I haven't done anything more complex than reives in Adoulin, so I would never try to set up a delve/skirmish run. I don't know the system, and I learn much better doing than just reading about it. If I joined a run but the leader didn't have a clue what they were doing, I would think twice about staying. Early on, it wouldn't have been a problem since nobody has done it, but we're past that point now. Get a few friends to try something new, that is fun. Trying to manage an alliance with no experience is not going to go well though.
#19 Oct 01 2013 at 8:08 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
4,233 posts
xantav wrote:
RaiseIII wrote:
It all goes back to the same old thing, if you want or need a run, then make your own shout. It's not hard and you should take some responsibility for your seeking your own fun. There is no good reason to be bored in this game.

If somebody has never done a run, do you really think they would make their own? I haven't done anything more complex than reives in Adoulin, so I would never try to set up a delve/skirmish run. I don't know the system, and I learn much better doing than just reading about it. If I joined a run but the leader didn't have a clue what they were doing, I would think twice about staying. Early on, it wouldn't have been a problem since nobody has done it, but we're past that point now. Get a few friends to try something new, that is fun. Trying to manage an alliance with no experience is not going to go well though.
At one point, every group consisted of people who had never done the event before. Now with that said, if you want to ease yourself into Delve, the best way is to play a less complicated or less gear-dependent job. That's why I recommend COR, GEO, or WHM if you can play it well. Everything else has a harsher gear or skill requirement. The worst thing you can do is try and make your own group to tackle 1-5+mega boss.

Skirmish is easy though. Even if you're the type of person who learns better by doing, a brief wiki consultation is more than enough to bring you up to speed.
____________________________
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
#20 Oct 01 2013 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
*
135 posts
detlef wrote:
That's why I recommend COR, GEO, or WHM if you can play it well. Everything else has a harsher gear or skill requirement.


I understand your point here, but this mentality drives me nuts. So many PuG Delve runs fail because of weak back-line/support jobs. There are a ton of ppl who want into these runs, so they lvl BRD, WHM, or COR quickly and slap together some half-assed gear sets. You end up with people who are geared to Abyssea level and have little experience playing their job, then people wonder why they can't clear a Shark run. COR that can't reset 1-hr because they don't have relic augments for Wild Card, can't hit the broad side of a barn with a ranged attack, and don't perform simple job responsibilities like enhancing Dia with Light Shot. WHM who aren't even close to capped cure potency, have no idea how to effectively use JAs like Afflatus Misery, and are always out of MP because they have no clue how to manage it effectively. BRD with severely underlevelled skill who can't do a quick N/T song rotation if their life depended on it. Front-line GEO who die because they hadn't even considered a -DT gear set. The list goes on for days. Those jobs should be well-geared, properly merited, and played by someone with experience just as much as any other job.
#21 Oct 01 2013 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
4,233 posts
CorncobWilly wrote:
detlef wrote:
That's why I recommend COR, GEO, or WHM if you can play it well. Everything else has a harsher gear or skill requirement.


I understand your point here, but this mentality drives me nuts. So many PuG Delve runs fail because of weak back-line/support jobs. There are a ton of ppl who want into these runs, so they lvl BRD, WHM, or COR quickly and slap together some half-assed gear sets. You end up with people who are geared to Abyssea level and have little experience playing their job, then people wonder why they can't clear a Shark run. COR that can't reset 1-hr because they don't have relic augments for Wild Card, can't hit the broad side of a barn with a ranged attack, and don't perform simple job responsibilities like enhancing Dia with Light Shot. WHM who aren't even close to capped cure potency, have no idea how to effectively use JAs like Afflatus Misery, and are always out of MP because they have no clue how to manage it effectively. BRD with severely underlevelled skill who can't do a quick N/T song rotation if their life depended on it. Front-line GEO who die because they hadn't even considered a -DT gear set. The list goes on for days. Those jobs should be well-geared, properly merited, and played by someone with experience just as much as any other job.
That's a fair point. Some players may perform inadequately but it may have less to do with leveling and gearing a niche job for a specific purpose and more to do with players being lazy and/or bad. I know people who leveled jobs to fill niches for us and performed admirably.

Aside from that, many of your examples are things that can be taken care of if pointed out. I think a lot of CORs don't understand the importance of relic +2 feet or even know how Light Shot works. Some MNKs might not have the knowledge of current strategies to obtain the relevant pieces of gear that enhance Formless or Mantra (or to even have the proper merits). That kind of thing can be taught.

For many people who don't have the connections, it's a legitimate way to get your foot in the door. But put in the effort to learn the job and play it well.
____________________________
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
#22 Oct 01 2013 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,183 posts
Quote:
COR that can't reset 1-hr because they don't have relic augments for Wild Card,


FYI, that augment only increases the odds from 33% to 44%, so it's still more likely than not to fail at resetting SPs.
#23 Oct 02 2013 at 12:05 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,535 posts
Like I said before, cap your skills!
____________________________
Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
#24 Oct 02 2013 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
Avatar
******
20,239 posts
This stupid 3-4 song only mentality has only one major upside: You tend to get bards who have put in a bit more time since they've got a Dharp. It's possible to solo a Dharp to 90 but it's slow and expensive and rather time consuming, so unless a major HNM shell has swarmed in and done it for them them over the course of a few weeks, it's probably a more established bard that has 3 songs.

It's when they snub the level 95-99 Ghorn bards too that things get stupid. Smiley: bah
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck. Once again a top bard on the server: Dardaubla 90 on 1/6/2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and leader of Grammarian Tea House chat LS
#25 Oct 02 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
****
4,233 posts
At this point you don't need those 3-4 song BRDs anymore. You can get away with 2 Marches and either 2 Minuets or Minuet/Madrigal. For zone bosses, you have even more flexibility due to Soul Voice. For example, on shark I do double Water Carol and on Tojil I throw a Minne in just because I can. Those are obviously luxuries and can be dropped if you have a NQ BRD.

Still, every little bit counts, and if you have a less-than-optimal BRD, combined with a WHM who is a step slow and a Rigor MNK and so on, it makes it slightly more difficult for the group to win. When the failure rate of pickup groups is so high, I can see where group leaders are coming from when they have gear checks to join. The solution is absolutely not to make your own run unless you're intimately familiar and experienced with the event mechanics and strategies but rather to get your foot in the door through any means possible, even if it means leveling and gearing a new job. It's no different from an aspiring chef washing dishes and busing tables at a restaurant he wants to eventually cook at.
____________________________
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
#26 Oct 02 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
828 posts
Also with older content; Some people just like to. Like with my little missionstatic (We've been doing Seekers missions) we've been doing salvage (both v.1 and v.2) to fill in time while we wait for more missions.

Most of the static other than me is pretty casual players who haven't delved but we've done fine so far, I'm planning on asking them to get skype but we prolly won't use it unless we need some serious fast coordination and there's no time to type stuff. I made it clear to folks that if it comes to the point they need delve gear, I'll round up a few friends and get them some kis and stuff so they can do delve. ^^
____________________________
Elizara, Mithran WHM of Quetzalcoatl
LS's: SpecialFriends, ShikigamiWeapon, Noble's, WeSayHurray, JingZen, Betrayed (Dynamis and Aby)

Still a MithraPride kitty at heart, tho that shell is gone..Also still CTY at heart forevah!

Midgard: NEVER FORGET.

Alla profile: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?11530

Thinking about swapping from console to PC? Check here to do it right!
#27 Oct 02 2013 at 7:14 PM Rating: Default
*
135 posts
The older content is definitely fun to low-man these days. Salvage II is an easy trio (full farm, not just select NMs), Limbus is soloable now, sky gods are easy to duo (even did Kirin easily with 3 people), and even Walk of Echoes (I do CF3 and CF13 as a WAR & WHM duo, hoping for the big money drops). Delve gear makes pretty much anything pre-SoA easy with 2 or 3 decent players. I'm almost done building a Pandemonium Warden pop, and did the whole thing solo. I thought the tier 4 NMs might be rough, but even those are easily solo'ed now.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2013 9:52pm by CorncobWilly
#28 Oct 02 2013 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
The switch from horizontal to vertical progression was too much for the FFXI community and SE's failure to maintain a constant, linear, achievable gear flow has made their vertical progression model even more obviously terrible.

Regardless what was said earlier, I have always found SE to be terrible at balancing things. The only thing that they are worse at, in fact, is identifying terrible design ideas before they are implemented. I mean, holy crap. You guys should reactivate and do Snorcia skirmish twice. You kill things for 10 minutes and then one guy kills something about every 3 minutes for half an hour. It can be trioed and the hardest part is staying awake for the whole run.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#29 Oct 03 2013 at 4:59 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
93 posts
Seriha wrote:
I see we're back to believing everyone had (max level) RMEs and the reason why the game's suffering is because they "suck" now. Nope.

Ignoring the order SE's released SoA content tiers, the big cause of the game's decline from the VW era and later has been the focus on alliance content with VW, Legion, and Delve. F80+ Neo-Nyzul gear was basically out of reach for most. Salvage was basically super grind unfriendly. SoA-launch Skirmish was basically inaccessible due to statue requirements and 2.0 comes "too late" for the "pros" to care because they did Delve already.

Smaller groups had basically been SOL, and as much as some want to blame Abyssea for supporting this style, it gave people things to do without setting rigid schedules or needing the absolute perfect parties and strategies. Daily lockouts need(ed) to go, like with Dynamis, Meebles, and so on. Unsurprisingly, the absence of such worked for Delve, but XI's pace of content development just isn't what it needs to be to keep people away from other games offering more or new things. The crazy desire to keep RMEs on top is very much part of the trap that's chased people away with the dislike of grinding the same otherwise pointless content daily.

The "Delve Onry!" BS can easily go the way of the dodo with reasonably made crafted weapons for all classes, fair continuation/consolidation of the magian paths, or heaven forbid, actual questing that rewards gear. Telling people to level jobs they hate or have no interest in is never the answer and, yup, can chase people off, too.


the most accurate and winning post by leaps and bounds... ^
100%, correct, correct, correct!
#30 Oct 03 2013 at 8:58 AM Rating: Default
**
983 posts
It had a few things right, and a few things wrong. Here are three of the ones that are objectively wrong:

1) Daily lockouts and alliance events were FFXI's bread and butter during... every time up to Abyssea. They aren't killing the game. The game is dying due to the lack of things that players *want* to do, not due to the lack of things that players *could* do but are unable to for some reason.

2) If you introduced easily obtained crafted weapons that were equivalent/superior to Delve boss weapons, then Snorcia Skirmish would be the only event in the game worth doing. The game doesn't need there to be even less worthwhile content at the moment.

3) RMEs being on top is not important as some kind of meaningless hierarchical status symbol. It's important because it motivates players to do a huge amount of legacy content that was recently re-worked to be lowman friendly.


Complaining about the lack of lowman events while supporting SE's decision to eliminate a decade of lowmannable content is kind of mindblowing.


Here are two posts that involve plots of player activity since April 1st:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/50106-Server-Populations?p=5902389&viewfull=1#post5902389
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/40532/server-pops/5/#2468780

Feel free to do your own analysis, but the basic conclusion is that population has dropped a little more than 50% since April 1st and it started dropping long before FFXIV's release. I find it harder to explain the dip in population from late June to early July than it is to explain the bump from early July to early September (Repeat Login Campaign 1/2), which is why I chose to interpret it as a continuous decrease since April (or at least May). The big spike in May is the update where they outdated RMEs.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#31 Oct 03 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
**
609 posts
Either you have daily lockouts or hideously low drop rates (I think Voidwatch went overboard in this case). I don't mind RME weapons being the very best you can get, I do mind that they were included in every gear check after Abyssea so there has to be some kind of a balance that you can actually do the content without being turned down on every shout.

Is it me or is the official forums very quiet? The FFXIV forums seems to spew out nonsense threads every hour while the FFXI ones shows the very same topics that showed up months ago.
#32 Oct 03 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,587 posts
Solonuke wrote:
Either you have daily lockouts or hideously low drop rates (I think Voidwatch went overboard in this case). I don't mind RME weapons being the very best you can get, I do mind that they were included in every gear check after Abyssea so there has to be some kind of a balance that you can actually do the content without being turned down on every shout.

Is it me or is the official forums very quiet? The FFXIV forums seems to spew out nonsense threads every hour while the FFXI ones shows the very same topics that showed up months ago.

You don't need stupid low drop rates without the daily lockouts, actually. Again, look to Abyssea and consider how every job had at least 5 individual pieces of gear that no other job could equip. For those who are, like... career MNK only, then yes, they might get done quickly. And while I criticized the demand that players should have to take up jobs they dislike to get anywhere, one reason why people might not have taken up other jobs in the past is the time required to gear them decently. When I knock the RME "requirement" and the wish to bring it back, it's under the auspice that you're basically telling anyone who wants to pick up a new job that they'll now have to spend 3+ months doing Dynamis and follow-up activities just to get up to the community's twisted definition of speed. Prestige weapons may motivate some, but I'm going to venture a guess it disheartens more upon the realization of what's required. We're no longer in the era where you can think, "I'm going to be playing this game a year from now!" when all it takes is one patch to ruin things, or another game to come around and do something so much better. Some might confuse this for wanting instant gratification, but it's not. It's simply a challenge to SE to be both fair to their players and hard-working to keep their players. Instead, it seems like we're getting the opposite end of both spectra, be it for financial or old-school philosophical reasons (we NEED grinds, we NEED prestige, we NEED large-group content).

In the end, one of XI's greatest issues has been getting people together to do specific things. Shouts only go so far. You gotta be on at the right time, in the right place, with the right jobs, and hope whatever it is you're after isn't being contested, and doubly so if it's a low drop rate. Not everyone visits forums no matter how much we might think it the standard. We have no cross-server matching. We have no in-game request board that people could post a task to. So, it doesn't surprise me when you'd see people shouting for a niche VW NM so they could work on their progress and not get enough bodies for the job. Hell, it didn't surprise me back in vanilla CoP when you couldn't see people get past the Promies because there was nothing in it for helpers (An issue that persists today in general for what Byrth labeled Legacy Content). I certainly wouldn't want to be doing Dynamis 3.0 a year from now just because some people can't stand the thought of content having an expiration date. At the same time, I have to wonder where these people were when conquest parties died off, eco-warrior, escorts, and other certifiably dead content. No, I'd rather see time spent on new things, while these new things don't require players who aren't on the bleeding edge to take 3+ months just to see yet another ghost town.

For the moment, I recall SE saying they had the wish to add hard mode BCs. On one hand, I don't really like that for the regurgitation of content as mentioned above. On the other, if it turns out they drop 1k coins, HMP pouches, etc. at a decent pace and generally eliminates the sting of the RME progression, I'd say it's something that's been needed for a long time now. But if they're just a future excuse to farm X amount of whatever for the new RME level, then missed opportunity. Doubly so if it's, "Do this sh*tty BC so that unpopular relic can get its upgrade!" which naturally means those people will have a **** of time upgrading. In the end, there is such a thing as spreading people too thin, which is an issue the pre-Adoulin doing Dynamis/Salvage/Nyzul/Meebles daily dynamic introduced. That's probably 4 hours of a person's day alone if they wanted to get the most of their arbitrarily delegated time. So forgive me for not wanting to see that again if that's what it means to keep legacy content relevant.

Edit: And none of this actually taps into issues of job imbalance or stagnation for why some opted to bow out. See sig for my poor attempt at cynical meme humor.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2013 5:39pm by Seriha
#33 Oct 03 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,266 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
It had a few things right, and a few things wrong. Here are three of the ones that are objectively wrong:

1) Daily lockouts and alliance events were FFXI's bread and butter during... every time up to Abyssea. They aren't killing the game. The game is dying due to the lack of things that players *want* to do, not due to the lack of things that players *could* do but are unable to for some reason.


Yes, daily lockouts that slowly bled away the playerbase until Abyssea was released and a good surge of players came back? You know, content that was entirely variable and party size wasn't a strict regimen the populace had to adher to? The large alliances got things done (and ridiculously quickly), while the majority of the populace did lowman situation so that they could work towards their own goals.

No, players aren't playing because up to Adoulin with the exception of Voidwatch and Meeble Burrows (time locked content, yet again) the ONLY thing S-E did was revamp older content instead of coming up with something new. Newsflash: while you might herald their ability to make you have to re-run content you've already ran for years already as approval worthy, the majority didn't.

Byrthnoth wrote:
2) If you introduced easily obtained crafted weapons that were equivalent/superior to Delve boss weapons, then Snorcia Skirmish would be the only event in the game worth doing. The game doesn't need there to be even less worthwhile content at the moment.


Considering they themselves don't have a problem releasing content that is, in all actuality, fairly worthless in comparison to most of the MB drops I don't think SE agrees. When you release a set of bosses and state "This is the highest caliber we're content with releasing for Adoulin" that kills any real desire to keep playing once you've gotten the drops from those bosses.

That's as moronic as say WoW for instance releasing Icecrown *FIRST* and then going back to release Naxx, then Ulduar, then the Coliseum. If you've already beaten the 'toughest' there is.... why keep playing? The love of killing harder monsters only works if you actually have a big goal and reward to look forward to and progress further.

Byrthnoth wrote:
3) RMEs being on top is not important as some kind of meaningless hierarchical status symbol. It's important because it motivates players to do a huge amount of legacy content that was recently re-worked to be lowman friendly.


Except it isn't important at all. Certainly SE doesn't seem to think so considering they're dragging their asses about updating items that doesn't take more than 5 minutes of spreadsheet comparisons to figure out where you want them to stand. Considering the grumbling about Mythics when they were announced by Relic holders, and then R/M holders when Empyreans were announced I really don't think it's as big of an issue as you're trying to make it be.

Your point is also moot because if people want something, whether it's current or not, they'll go after that personal achievement anyway. Attempting to force it to be current content at all times, forever, leads to stagnation which is the entire reason the population started to decline late ToAU/WotG.

Plus, you act like this is the first time SE's put in weapons that outclassed R/M with their sheer usefulness.

Byrthnoth wrote:
Complaining about the lack of lowman events while supporting SE's decision to eliminate a decade of lowmannable content is kind of mindblowing.


If it wasn't low-mannable during its real prime it's not really low mannable content now is it? Simply because you can go back and do things that required larger groups before doesn't magically make a valid point for you.
#34 Oct 03 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
**
983 posts
Viertel wrote:
Byrthnoth wrote:
It had a few things right, and a few things wrong. Here are three of the ones that are objectively wrong:

1) Daily lockouts and alliance events were FFXI's bread and butter during... every time up to Abyssea. They aren't killing the game. The game is dying due to the lack of things that players *want* to do, not due to the lack of things that players *could* do but are unable to for some reason.


Yes, daily lockouts that slowly bled away the playerbase until Abyssea was released and a good surge of players came back? You know, content that was entirely variable and party size wasn't a strict regimen the populace had to adhere to? The large alliances got things done (and ridiculously quickly), while the majority of the populace did lowman situation so that they could work towards their own goals.

No, players aren't playing because up to Adoulin with the exception of Voidwatch and Meeble Burrows (time locked content, yet again) the ONLY thing S-E did was revamp older content instead of coming up with something new. Newsflash: while you might herald their ability to make you have to re-run content you've already ran for years already as approval worthy, the majority didn't.


If you want to talk about population drops, FFXI has done two rounds of server merges. The first was in May of 2010 and the second was in May of 2011. This reflects the total lack of worthwhile content between ToAU (2006) and Abyssea (June, 2011). ToAU was the gift that kept on giving and was stilling cranking out updates past the release of WotG (probably into 2008, can't be bothered to look it up), but WotG was an abject endgame failure that offered one useful-yet-boring activity, Campaign. There was essentially nothing novel and worthwhile to do from 2008 to 2011 and the game was limping by on a combination of player incompetence and the terrible odds that SE put into its old events.

That said, based on the fact that only 12 servers reached an average of half-capacity at each of the previous merges and that this time we are looking at a >50% drop in the total number of logins, you can conclude that we are currently in the worst population drop that FFXI has ever faced. There are no mandatory lockout on current events. It's stupid to blame them.

If there had been some kind of population drop shortly following the introduction of Dynamis, Salvage, Limbus, Assault, or any of the other forced delay events, then maybe your point would have the potential to be correct. Unfortunately, reality informs us that you're wrong.



Viertel wrote:
Byrthnoth wrote:
2) If you introduced easily obtained crafted weapons that were equivalent/superior to Delve boss weapons, then Snorcia Skirmish would be the only event in the game worth doing. The game doesn't need there to be even less worthwhile content at the moment.


Considering they themselves don't have a problem releasing content that is, in all actuality, fairly worthless in comparison to most of the MB drops I don't think SE agrees. When you release a set of bosses and state "This is the highest caliber we're content with releasing for Adoulin" that kills any real desire to keep playing once you've gotten the drops from those bosses.

That's as moronic as say WoW for instance releasing Icecrown *FIRST* and then going back to release Naxx, then Ulduar, then the Coliseum. If you've already beaten the 'toughest' there is.... why keep playing? The love of killing harder monsters only works if you actually have a big goal and reward to look forward to and progress further.


I agree with you and I'm also not claiming that SE understands the fact that I wrote there. They obviously do not understand it. However, invalidating Skirmish v1 weapons and Delve boss weapons so you can make sure that everyone has an easily obtained "best weapon" is not working towards a solution to that problem. It is removing two currently useful events in exchange for... making Snorcia easier for everyone? it's already near-soloable by black mages. Do we really need it to be easier?



I feel like these last two responses were some kind of logic bomb, but I'm not Borg so I'll just work through it. I've moved some of the sentences around to combine thoughts.
Viertel wrote:
Byrthnoth wrote:
3) RMEs being on top is not important as some kind of meaningless hierarchical status symbol. It's important because it motivates players to do a huge amount of legacy content that was recently re-worked to be lowman friendly.


Except it isn't important at all. Certainly SE doesn't seem to think so considering they're dragging their asses about updating items that doesn't take more than 5 minutes of spreadsheet comparisons to figure out where you want them to stand. Considering the grumbling about Mythics when they were announced by Relic holders, and then R/M holders when Empyreans were announced I really don't think it's as big of an issue as you're trying to make it be.

Plus, you act like this is the first time SE's put in weapons that outclassed R/M with their sheer usefulness.


SE is wrong and the RMEs are important, as should be very obvious from either of the graphs I linked. I'm also not pretending that Empyreans didn't happen. I just did not bring it up because I don't feel it was relevant. However, if you want to get in to that, the big problem with that was not the introduction of Empyreans. It was the stupidly difficult trials given for Relics/Mythic upgrades. Those just added insult to injury. Still, those trials affected a tiny portion of the population, while the current lack of RME content affects much larger portion of it now that the events have been made so accessible.



Viertel wrote:
Your point is also moot because if people want something, whether it's current or not, they'll go after that personal achievement anyway. Attempting to force it to be current content at all times, forever, leads to stagnation which is the entire reason the population started to decline late ToAU/WotG.


I don't know why you're bringing up the terrible failure of WotG's endgame (which resulted in server merges) as some kind of counter to RMEs, but I am willing to acknowledge that SE has only introduced one successful event not involved in RME creation (Limbus).

There was content introduced throughout WotG, but it sucked and players didn't choose to do it over old content. As a thought experiment, imagine if SE had released WotG and deleted all other endgame events. Do you think people would have farmed Xarcabard region campaigns all day, or do you think they would have quit? I know which one I would have done.



Viertel wrote:
Byrthnoth wrote:
Complaining about the lack of lowman events while supporting SE's decision to eliminate a decade of lowmannable content is kind of mindblowing.


If it wasn't low-mannable during its real prime it's not really low mannable content now is it? Simply because you can go back and do things that required larger groups before doesn't magically make a valid point for you.


http://cannotlinkto.com/brlhthw
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#35 Oct 03 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
I do agree that XI will need to make some changes soon to get things moving some more with the game. Right now there's so little to really do for any lasting period of time outside of Monstrosity, and even that grows old after awhile. All the best gear comes from Skirmish or Delve, and for Delve, most of the people that have cleared the boss wins repeatedly are sitting on so much plasm that if they wanted a random piece of gear, they could simply buy it. Skirmish likewise has very little staying power as well, since you could max out your gear easily if you wanted with how plentiful the Lepondopt Wings are and how cheap the equipment is (the stones for augmenting ends up being the only reason to continue).

All the weapons and gear that might take some time to work on (i.e. Relics, Mythics, etc) are currently out the window for progress that can be made almost instantly. There's just not an incentive to keep people doing things now as they did before when it came to Abyssea and the like. With Abyssea, you had people doing weapons, upgrading armor, doing quests, exping, making money, you name it, whereas with Adoulin, right now it'd just be something like Skirmish, because I personally have no incentive to do Delve for anything.
____________________________
Lady Jinte wrote:

Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points


My thoughts and reviews on all sorts of sci-fi stuff...and things.
#36 Oct 03 2013 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,587 posts
Try as FFXIAH might to monitor populations, it will never be accurate. It has no means to directly distinguish mules or secondary accounts to give a true measure of the actual population. The only one can actually do that is SE, and they've never given a precise population number. This inaccuracy could also be applied to the census and the age old fallacy of everyone having an RME, let alone multiples. The hardcores might, especially those crazy enough to have every Emp at 90, but they just aren't the norm and skew the numbers when not working with all the numbers.

Either way, I won't argue WotG had its lull during the mini-add-on year, but I'd hardly call it terrible. Campaign was actually one of the best things they'd done with FFXI, but the fact they've chosen to abandon it instead of building a new iteration within Adoulin is what left us with the BS of colonization percentages and the general lack of pick-up-and-play-at-your-own-pace friendly activities. And when I'm talking about evolving Campaign, I'm saying have more than one point of attack/defense, give the waves some more objective variety, don't tie activity/reward to NPC presence, and certainly implement high end gear as a carrot, because the best armor sets coming out Campaign being level 68 were a slap in the face, nevermind the **** of the weapons.

Anyway, I have no issue with attributing a drop in 2012 to the fact the casuals generally had finished up their Abyssea experience. Yes, you and I could probably put a full set of AF3+2 together in a day, but I'm not blind to the reality that everyone had the proper time and connections. Maybe they'd manage a few seals due to RNG. Maybe they tried quests instead, but weren't luck there. Maybe they could never get help with the +2 NMs because others were hogging them for their own personal gain (Gukumatz can still DIAF). But hey, eventually they could finally finish their favored job. Probably not an Emp holder, so either an AH or magian weapon. Then what? 2xSCH, pimp BRD, 3x high-end 2H DPS for Nyzul and all it's random stupidity, especially before stopper adjustment and the shift from 25 to 5 clears? Too unreliable. Too unfun. Salvage wasn't any better about job discrimination. Plus, well, not everyone having a pocket WHM on the side. Legion was out of reach. VW was very hit-and-miss just for progression purposes, nevermind getting a drop thanks to SE's "Well, 18 chests, let cut 5% drop rates by 18!" philosophy of reverse gambler's fallacy.

The Xarc Campaign hypothetical is pretty much hogwash because I know you're trying to apply what we know of it now as the be-all of the event. In comparison, Delve did at least offer gear for all jobs in most all slots one way or another. So it would be fairer to compare it to Abyssea with its cap increases relative to the ilvl increases serving the same purpose with actual character leveling. But yes, Ixion and Sandworm sucked and encouraged botting just as land kings before. If people quit over that being the endgame, I wouldn't blame them. If we want to talk about drops in population from this year specifically, sure SoA disappointment can be a factor. Player trends within the game, too. I'd even include outside influences like Rift going F2P. People wanting to enjoy their summer. New console games. Eventually, yes, XIV.

Reasons why myself and friends left XI may honestly mean next to nothing to those still playing, but they're still reasons, reasons that others can share. I'll certainly never be convinced that prestige content a sub-15% of the player base can complete is good for any game. I've criticized the **** out of Rift for doing this. I stopped TERA because they was pretty much their MO, too. GW2 has no endgame to speak of and has this weird obsession with temporary content. I haven't really hit a point in XIV yet where I feel there's something I can't do. Borderline too grindy? Sure. Hate the weekly currency caps? You bet. But not out of reach. I knew I'd pretty much never get a mythic in XI, though. Why? I hated Salvage, so that ruled out direct Alexandrite acquisition. Would've been able to stomach Dynamis better without the time restrictions, but saying I had to set aside two uninterrupted hours daily to get the most of it killed that right quick. And bluntly, relic currency being the only thing really moving gil around in XI just emphasizes how terrible the economy is/was. Slap 5k plasm craft mats on the vendors for those new potential weapons I mentioned. Might not be epic gil, especially in the distant future, but it'd be something to spend plasm on when you're generally done with your gear. Even let 'em get augmented so they could be permanently removed from economic recirculation, too.
#37 Oct 03 2013 at 11:56 PM Rating: Decent
**
983 posts
Those graphs are from google analytics counting the number of times the Windower v4 launcher was opened. The less spikey graph avoids double-counting pings from the same IP within a given time frame (perhaps a day, but there's no documentation for it so we don't really know.) The Windower v4 population is not representative of FFXI at large. It excludes people that play on PS2/X-box and 65% of the users live in North America/Europe (20% JP, 5% Chinese, 5% elsewhere). Still, it's probably much more accurate than FFXIAH's page, which has over 2000 characters still active on Garuda (which closed 3 years ago).

I don't know what 2012 drop you're talking about. There were no server merges that year and I don't particularly remember a drop off.

With the Xarc example, I was just trying to come up with something repeatable and constant that players could do in WotG that involved fighting high level monsters. Like, if you think of WotG endgame, what do you think of people doing? I suspect that SE thought that people would flock to murdering things in strongholds and take over zones. Like, think of the content investment they made putting campaign into the Northlands, and it was almost entirely ignored except for a few hours before the conquest update the few weeks that each server bothered to unlock Fiat Lux. Most servers have still never unlocked Cracking Shells. Apart from that there was just WoE, which took years to be worthwhile even for skilled alliances due to its crappy equipment and terrible reward distribution structure.

As far as making mythics/whatever, for about two years there was almost no event you could do that didn't make you gil. If you did Voidwatch, you got random equipment or HMPs/Rift items. If you did Limbus, Dynamis, or Salvage, you got coins of some type. People could even sell drops in Abyssea for more gil. The reason that you couldn't make a mythic in XI was probably because you never seriously started it. I never thought I'd finish mine when I started. It was just a dark German winter and I was in a new lab. Took me something like 2 months to get all of the Alexandrite together.

Here is how they should have solved the RME paradox: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33112-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-WoE-Weapons?p=470453&viewfull=1#post470453
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#38 Oct 04 2013 at 1:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,587 posts
Seriously try? No. Seriously consider? Of course. In the end, I realized that the gil generation of my play times and style wouldn't match up with a pace I'd be comfortable with over a significantly long term. I'm of the mind that no single item in an MMO should take more than a month to make by someone who puts in, say, 10 hours a week into a game. Overall, FFXI has a lot of time sink potential by virtue of the number of jobs and equipment slots before even entertaining gear swaps mid-combat. And even with Dynamis as the premier money-maker for many back then, it was still subject to competition, personal job options, or even if you ran a WHM/BRD mule (less downtime, faster kills with Haste/March, more money). Some people might've broken 1m a day no sweat, others would probably be lucky to break 500k. I'm not up to date on Alexandrite prices anymore, but there was a time you'd be dumping at least 70m into them. For your weekend warriors, that's a significant amount of time even if you could break the 1m mark per attempt. Reasonable people should then understand the folly of ever making such a thing a requirement for content.

Anyway, could Xarc have been an endgame hangout? Sure. It simply needed the actual attention required to facilitate that. On the other hand, I'm not saying SE needs to go make Xarc the it-place now. I'd rather see emphasis on SoA content so if I ever consider peeking back in on the game, I know I'll be seeing new stuff and not the same thing I did years ago with a few new mobs and maybe some new moves to 'em. Hell, I was somewhat tempted just to **** around with Monstrosity in early August until XIV launched, but I held out knowing the other content is a bit hostile on social requirements (and RDM still sucks) and what's left of the LS I was in really isn't enough for me to say I "know them" now, which ultimately means I'd have to prove myself to a new group all over again. And frankly, the political aspect of group activities contributes to my earlier sentiment on acquisition limits, which naturally gets murkier the more bodies you add.
#39 Oct 04 2013 at 5:19 AM Rating: Default
**
983 posts
Alexandrite bottomed out around 7k each on my server, which puts the cost of a Mythic at 210mil... but 10 hours a week is 5 Dynamis runs, and there was a long time where soloing Dynamis was easily a mil per run. 210mil during this period would have been less than a year of farming even for someone that plays 10 hours a week. Also, when they introduced Forgotten items I made over 5mil per Dynamis run for ~2 weeks.

People generally hesitate to start the mythic quest because it's such a mammoth undertaking, but I found that it goes very fast once you get it underway and honestly it's kind of well balanced and fun. I focused on making gil and did the other quest requirements when taking breaks because ToAU content is generally fun. I got all the Alexandrite for Terpsichore and 99'd Twashtar before I finished 100,000 Amps for Einherjar and that playtime period was probably the most fun I've had in game. I could do everything on DNC (often /THF), and there was a lot of different things to do for gil.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#40 Oct 04 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,587 posts
10 hours may be 5 Dynamis runs, but the "weekend warrior" part of that was important. As in only 2 days a week of play, which means 2 Dynamis runs, maybe 3 if you're OCD enough to wake up before reset for a third. But let's say they could make 2m per run, 210m cost means 105 runs. Then factoring actual RL scheduling, they'll need 52.5 weeks at the 2/week scheme. They'd also have to go through the hassle of finding an Ein group, tracking the beastmen kings and their fickle spawns, and other associated grinds like actually finding people for the 50 different assaults (twice). **** all this is for one weapon before even getting into the zeni farming snorefest and climb to PW.

Relics and Emps may take less on the gil end, but the latter is certainly suffering from an HMP and other drops drought with VW swimming with the fishes. Hence why you see some hoping SE will address level 90 weapons in some way. I doubt they will, but I don't find the request without justification.

In the end, not everyone plays daily. Not everyone wants to make a daily Dynamis rotation their thing. I can understand the same sentiment for Delve, and would in turn say that Bayld and Skirmish gear should actually have equal options with the right effort. You'll have people **** about that, of course, via perception of difficulty:reward scaling, but if the community's going to enforce its own sense of minimum requirements for content, giving people more ways to be less gimp isn't a bad thing. SE just needs to avoid singular event superiority and tunnel vision in the future.
#41 Oct 05 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
**
916 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:


With the Xarc example, I was just trying to come up with something repeatable and constant that players could do in WotG that involved fighting high level monsters. Like, if you think of WotG endgame, what do you think of people doing? I suspect that SE thought that people would flock to murdering things in strongholds and take over zones. Like, think of the content investment they made putting campaign into the Northlands, and it was almost entirely ignored except for a few hours before the conquest update the few weeks that each server bothered to unlock Fiat Lux. Most servers have still never unlocked Cracking Shells..


You know what the biggest issue with Fiat Lux was?

Instanced battle that not everyone could get in to because people would flock to the bc area and spam like crazy on the door to get locked out for someone else who maybe got there a few mins ago to get in before you.
I had the same issue with Moblin Maze Mongers at the time too. (Which made me quit even trying that because I couldn't get in.)


Edited, Oct 5th 2013 10:01am by Janeash
____________________________
Lu Shangs Fishing Rod obtained: Feb 2005
Maat's cap Obtained: Saturday 31st July 2010
Ebisu Fishing Rod Obtained: Sunday 8th August 2010
#42 Oct 07 2013 at 5:48 AM Rating: Excellent
I hated Fiat Lux because of that more than anything. It was really brutal making your way up to the top of the castle with all the high-level monsters there (especially in dealing with those gates on the first floor that had the Beastmen hanging out near them), only to be unable to get in all night long because others are managing to beat you to entering.
____________________________
Lady Jinte wrote:

Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points


My thoughts and reviews on all sorts of sci-fi stuff...and things.
#43 Oct 08 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
**
574 posts
There will always be people looking for the one excuse to give them the justification for leaving the game and most expansions seen some of this but the game was younger and was offset by newer players. REMs getting throw under the bus is just one excuse, even if they were adjusted for at the launch of SoA people would have just found another excuse to leave. I seen it and so has everyone here that the RMs is not some magic bullet to keep people playing, how many people have we all seen back in the 75 days leave soon after finishing one.

It really isn't like a lot of people were still doing sky, sea or anything before abbyssea or that much of abyssea at the launch of SoA most were just sticking around for SoA. I see just as many shouts for different events now then I did before SoA. Why because before it was VW shouts, and most of those were the same 3 or so mobs and if you got lucky a climbing shout mixed in with the random seal party. Now we are seeing shouts for delve, skirmish all 3 areas, WKR least 2 twice a week.

Really it is a 11 year old game that will decline. after this deline it will level off to the new normal and be stable for a while then when people get the urge to leave they will pull some excuse that ha nothing with them just being tired of the game.
____________________________
.
#44 Oct 08 2013 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
3,636 posts
Man, the one time Fiat Lux became available, Sylph formed its usual line. It was a long as **** line. Like 45 minutes. But everyone played by the rules and got in line and nobody jumped the gun.

Your servers are just full of uncivilized barbarians.
____________________________
http://ereblog.livejournal.com/
Erecia and Ereblog are BACK, baby!
#45 Oct 08 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Default
***
2,552 posts
Seriha wrote:
10 hours may be 5 Dynamis runs, but the "weekend warrior" part of that was important. As in only 2 days a week of play, which means 2 Dynamis runs, maybe 3 if you're OCD enough to wake up before reset for a third. But let's say they could make 2m per run, 210m cost means 105 runs. Then factoring actual RL scheduling, they'll need 52.5 weeks at the 2/week scheme. They'd also have to go through the hassle of finding an Ein group, tracking the beastmen kings and their fickle spawns, and other associated grinds like actually finding people for the 50 different assaults (twice). @#%^, all this is for one weapon before even getting into the zeni farming snorefest and climb to PW.

Relics and Emps may take less on the gil end, but the latter is certainly suffering from an HMP and other drops drought with VW swimming with the fishes. Hence why you see some hoping SE will address level 90 weapons in some way. I doubt they will, but I don't find the request without justification.

In the end, not everyone plays daily. Not everyone wants to make a daily Dynamis rotation their thing. I can understand the same sentiment for Delve, and would in turn say that Bayld and Skirmish gear should actually have equal options with the right effort. You'll have people **** about that, of course, via perception of difficulty:reward scaling, but if the community's going to enforce its own sense of minimum requirements for content, giving people more ways to be less gimp isn't a bad thing. SE just needs to avoid singular event superiority and tunnel vision in the future.


SE spent the entire post-Abyssea era trying to fix all the balance issues that Abyssea caused with respect to gear. Augments, Magians and general downshift in clearly best-in-slot type gear was all the rage and it seemed that SE was trying to bring the game back to what it'd always been - a gear collecting, multi-event endgame where you needed to do multiple things if you wanted to be the best. Even the grindy Voidwatches had the express purpose of obtaining pieces that were upgrades or used in conjunction with other gear to optimize sets even if the boring as all **** "invincibility + procs = win" zerg mentality completely ruined any of the previous finesse required to win a battle.

With Dynamis going public, anyone could get a relic even if it meant a slow and painful grind versus what had previously been years to obtain one. Empyreans to 90 were trivial and the 1500 plate **** was only implemented in a sad attempt to placate R/M holders who felt that their accomplishments would be doused by the ease by which Empyreans were to upgrade in comparison. The completely unnecessary addition of Legion was again bait by which to placate hardcores but the gear was never so amazing that it couldn't be avoided. It felt like SE wanted to throw down a gauntlet but at the same time knew that the event would overall be very limited in scope due to their previous elimination of HNMLS' in the Abyssea era.

It didn't help that Voidwatch kind of ended with "Here's a random dragon, jerks." in a very abrupt manner.

So everyone was expecting Adoulin to be a continuation on what had been the FFXI selling point: Horizontal gameplay. Instead we got the an expansion pack that made WOTG look revolutionary in comparison. The zones were pretty much useless for anything other than entering Delve, content dead on arrival, Reives manage to be worse than Campaign Battles and it's clear that everything in this vertical nightmare reeks of stat inflation and general incompleteness. How SE could launch Adoulin in such a state is just shameful on their part. Tanaka was obsessed with balance to a fault and now Matsui has simply transposed WoW-style gameplay onto a game never built for this type of system with the 3 developers he's still got working on this old bird.

Never before have I seriously entertained the demise of Final Fantasy XI but on its current course I can't see this game going on for much longer. Seeing 285 people on last night shocked the **** out of me.

Edited, Oct 8th 2013 10:59pm by SparthosofLakshmi
____________________________
Sparthosx
90 WAR BLU BRD RNG PUP COR SCH DNC WHM RDM






#46 Oct 08 2013 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,552 posts
And to think all Matsui needed to do was design a harder version of Campaign with credits that built up towards upgrading what was already established in the game as being top tier. Fishmen are attacking a bivouac needed to maintain certain rewards and halting our colonization? Wipe them out. Hoards of Chapuli have gotten into to town and threaten to kill NPCs we need alive to teleport around? To the cannons, we can afford to lose vital NPCs. We need mountains of ore from the Moh Gates to construct a new building in Adoulin? Descend on that zone for group EXP or HELM for items. We just lost our main tower to the hoards of Beastmen attacking our holdings in Foret? We'll have to rebuild. Woodworkers/Fishermen/Smiths, to your crafting stations. Our colonization is held up by hungry NPCs refusing to work? We need Culinarians to provide them with some obscure recipes from 2005, quick. What's that? A giant land shark has appeared and threatens to destroy our entire settlement? Everyone rally to the aid of Adoulin!

Adoulin could have been a resource war combining battle/field skills with real-time consequences for failure. Something that WOTG failed miserably to accomplish. Instead we get a downgrade on all fronts. A miserable pile of steaming chocobo dung.

If items like HMPs and Rift-XXX items were among the colonization rewards then you'd keep the interest of everyone trying to finish their Empyreans among whatever else was up for grabs. Matsui could have also chosen to ease up on the Mythic requirements to bring those weapons in line with the eased up Relics/Empyreans If the goal was make things more "relaxing" and "fun" in the new expansion pack. Afterglows being changed could have also helped to keep people occupied rather than frustrated to all **** that those weapons were basically giant <^>s to the base. Who wouldn't want to glow like a GM after putting in some more work? Things like Ephemeron, Sagasinger and all the glow weapons/armor should have been thrown into the magian system as things you could continue to slightly improve due to their rarity.

What XI has always been is a grind and the goal of this expansion pack should have been to continue that theme but in a more relaxing manner. If we needed to go past 99 in some 'way' then it should have been through merit point style content (think paragon levels, D3) that unlocked new abilities, weaponskills and spells that encouraged EXP and general anti-Abyssea leeching. Monstrosity as another way for people to hammer out levels again with rewards tied to your physical character would have also served as a way of blowing off some steam when you got bored of competing in the resource war and wanted some retro-PVE or deal with PvP.

Instead we have stat bloat. Sucks.
____________________________
Sparthosx
90 WAR BLU BRD RNG PUP COR SCH DNC WHM RDM






#47 Oct 09 2013 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
300 posts
3 of us from my LS did some Rala/Cird runs last night. It was actually fun, we are all skirmish level gear so not uber. Whm, Rdm and Nin. It was fun being the tank on strong to magic mobs while the Rdm blew up the weak to magic ones. Rala is actually hard to do in 30 mins and clear secondary and it was really fun trying to kill asap but keep the finger wigglers from dying. The onry reason i was Nin is that i have 2 x +1 weps with augs and have full otro. Never touched delve or wildskeeper and doubt i will. Skirmish gives us an opportunity if we have a spare 30-60 mins to get something, whether stones, bayld or weps/armour (and exps!).
____________________________
99 NIN/DNC/WAR/MNK/SAM/BST/WHM/RDM
70 BLM/RNG
#48 Oct 09 2013 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
**
983 posts
Sparthos pretty much has it right.

It is not very difficult for me to imagine people returning to this game if SE took the right corrective steps:
1) do something about the horizontal to vertical switch, because right now the population is in freefall. They can either make it work or stop it. Idc
2) bundle ffxi and ffxiv subscription fees. Make ffxi cost like $5 more and give a free patched download of it to current ffxiv subscribers.
3) basically stop all the terrible design decisions that lead to DOA content.

I was looking forward to PvM fights, but this morning it struck me that the populations ate too low for such a system to work. I am going to end up doing it twice with friends and running out of people to fight. Another DOA system.
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#49 Oct 09 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,587 posts
As a supplement to #2, get XI free if you pay for multiple months of XIV at a time. I've wanted the shared sub option for a while, and they even had it back when 1.0 was **** Why it's gone now, though, is a mystery.

I feel like vertical progression should stay, though, as 3 is what makes it the head-scratcher. Unfortunately, a lot of these flaws just reek of manpower/financing issues. Even the SP2s have been in limbo for how long now?
#50 Oct 09 2013 at 8:48 PM Rating: Default
**
983 posts
SP2s have been in limbo for almost two years: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17223-dev1058-Merit-Point-two-hour-abilities
____________________________
Yay for Jhereg!
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Byrth
#51 Oct 09 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
***
2,552 posts
Why would vertical progression stay? It's what killed the game.

What has sustained XI all these years is the weight and value of useful and valuable pieces of gear. Being able to compare a DW set to a 2h set. Being able to build gimmicky builds for fun or farm some obscure piece of gear to capstone a particular set. When you go vertical, this all dies off and what is left is a shallow, unsustainable core of mess.
____________________________
Sparthosx
90 WAR BLU BRD RNG PUP COR SCH DNC WHM RDM






« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 64 All times are in CDT