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FFXI on the decline?Follow
EVE has 45K people on ATM!
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Kragorn wrote:
First, just WHAT end-game content did Rift launch with? I remember GSB and .. er .. yeah.
Yeah, it was GSB as the 20-man raid while you had harder mode dungeons of those you could've done while leveling. Other than that, it was grinding rep for Dragonslayers, Mathos, and Icewatch, the last one of which they severely neutered the rep quests for some reason I could never really comprehend then and now. Given my aversion to the raid game snobbery and anti-social demands of such, I dropped after my first month. When I'd learned a friend was playing and they'd added some more content like Ember Isle and raid-like gear you could get from zone events, I gave the game another shot. It wasn't perfect, but that last thing gave me something to do on my own schedule. Unfortunately, Trion made it a habit to make such gear both excessively grindy and deliberately inferior to raid counterparts, but it was either do that or have nothing to do. Overall, I had a tendency to play the game in 3 month spurts, trying other things in between like GW2, D3, or catching up on other console games. It's unlikely I'll be going back to Rift anytime soon, though. Not because I hate the game, but because starting last winter, they'd done something to the graphics engine that frequently causes my PC to outright crash. Tera does similar for me (though allegedly a poorly optimized game there), but otherwise I've been able to play pretty much any other game without issue. Even in trying to chat with one of their lead coders on the boards, the best I managed to get was him basically saying it's my PC's fault. And as much as I'd love a new rig, I just have a disposable 1k+ at the moment.
Edited, Sep 14th 2013 7:52pm by Seriha
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Thayos wrote:
But even ffxi is still chugging along, despite those more severe restrictions! If FFXI can live a decade with more cumbersome restrictions, there is no doubt XIV will live a decade.
Also, XIV right now is way better than XI's latest expansion/ design direction. The duty finder is a game changer, and is something ffxi would tremendously benefit from. The game's storyline is great, and will be added to every few months. The problem with Adoulin now isn't just that its boring, but that you need to lean on an ingreasingly elitist community to progress. That will neer be a problem in FFXIV. Unused dungeons will become new progression content.
I am actually looking forward to XIV's gear grind, because the infrastructure is in place to make it fun. The challenge will be the battles, not standing around trying to find parties.
Edited, Sep 14th 2013 7:55am by Thayos
Edited, Sep 14th 2013 7:57am by Thayos
You tout this "XIV will live a decade like it's some amazing accomplishment. How many mmos can you name that won't? MMOs don't shut down unless there is a really good reason to. Almost no MMO shuts down unless there is a behind the scenes reason to. There are levels of life that some may or may not be happy with but XIV and XI won't be closed down, no company would do that. Now there is no chance XIV will stay pay to play for more than a year, of this I have no doubt at all. The player loss after the first couple of months will be too big to sustain such an expensive game. Watch and see.
The biggest fail with XIV is that it takes all the mistakes the dev team made with XI lately and put them into a new game. Fast leveling, solo experience, moving away from a party based system, power creep and boring endgame content that relies on 1-2 worthwhile dungeons that will always replace the previous.
XIV is in a far weaker position and far more likely to go into a catastrophic decline than XI is. You have to keep in mind that of the 2 games one can easily maintain itself on 1/10th of the players than the other. Given that every single new mmo that has launched outside of EVE (which is totally unique in the market) has failed to live upto what FFXI and WoW have been able to maintain.
XIV is in the weaker position between these 2 games.
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Also, XIV right now is way better than XI's latest expansion/ design direction. The duty finder is a game changer, and is something ffxi would tremendously benefit from. The game's storyline is great, and will be added to every few months. The problem with Adoulin now isn't just that its boring, but that you need to lean on an ingreasingly elitist community to progress. That will neer be a problem in FFXIV. Unused dungeons will become new progression content.
People need to remember that FFXI was SE's first MMO and the worlds first cross platform MMO (to my knowledge at least). There was a HUGE learning curve and decisions made early in FFXI's development cycle would haunt the game and limit it's expandability in the future (instancing / inventory / ect..). The strength of FFXI, and the only reason I continue playing it, is it's job system. I get monumentally bored if I'm forced to play the same style all the time, I like to switch it up and rotate different styles / jobs. Sometimes I want to be the hard smashing buffed DD, other times the BLU and even the WHM or RDM. Other MMO's really limited my ability to do that and requires insane amounts of work (leveling two toons / doing everything twice). FFXI made it easy to do an event on one job to acquire gear for another and thus ensure I can maintain my rotation.
As for "social stuff", that's 100% on the player and simply requires time management skills. I played "end game" while having a full time job and extremely active social life. Wasn't easy and I had to set my schedule in advance, even accept that It would take me 2~3 times longer to each goals as other players, yet I still was able to reach those goals.
As for FFXIV, I did the closed beta and was sorely tempted to purchase it. The only thing holding me back is I really don't like the armory system, I just can't get into it. It's also missing RDM and other "hybrid" style jobs that I absolutely love to play, the closest thing is Bard.
If SE can justify keeping FFXI alive on its currently small player base, then we really don't need to worry about XIV, which can afford to lose half of its playerbase and still have hundreds of thousands of players. I am positive the game will see some members leave over the first few months, but the numbers won't be catastrophic. There is too much to do in this game, and people are having enough fun and interaction in their linkshells and free companies to feel isolated. And we have the ps4 bump coming next spring!
Like I said earlier though, there is no need o be defensive or concerned about XI. That game isn't going anywhere. With how little money SE must spend on that game these days, they must still be making a nice profit despite the small playerbase.
Edited, Sep 15th 2013 9:14am by Thayos
Like I said earlier though, there is no need o be defensive or concerned about XI. That game isn't going anywhere. With how little money SE must spend on that game these days, they must still be making a nice profit despite the small playerbase.
Edited, Sep 15th 2013 9:14am by Thayos
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
XI's player base hasn't dropped as significantly as some people seem to believe, since most servers are still averaging at least 600 players on at any given time. Some servers have taken a bit more of a hit than others, but in general it's still going quite strong.
For the past couple weeks I've been playing XIV though, I will say that the community in general is lacking in comparison to XI. Even linkshells aren't anywhere near as useful as they are in XI, and in most all of the Instances/Guildhests I've done so far, the communication has been so low that it's practically non-existent.
For the past couple weeks I've been playing XIV though, I will say that the community in general is lacking in comparison to XI. Even linkshells aren't anywhere near as useful as they are in XI, and in most all of the Instances/Guildhests I've done so far, the communication has been so low that it's practically non-existent.
Lady Jinte wrote:
Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points
I've honestly gotta wonder what you guys consider declining, then. When I was going in 2012, online players ranged anywhere from 1000-1500 on Sylph. Back when Fairy existed, seeing 3k+ wasn't uncommon. Now we have people saying 600. While I'm not saying servers can't function at that level, I don't find it unreasonable to state that a decline has happened.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
It's going to tank for a bit more once GTA V comes out. 
So will XIV for that matter.
So will XIV for that matter.
Seriha wrote:
I've honestly gotta wonder what you guys consider declining, then. When I was going in 2012, online players ranged anywhere from 1000-1500 on Sylph. Back when Fairy existed, seeing 3k+ wasn't uncommon. Now we have people saying 600. While I'm not saying servers can't function at that level, I don't find it unreasonable to state that a decline has happened.
Well, during the time of day that I'll play, 600 or so has always been about the norm. It bumps up some on the weekends as well as during summer months (due to people not in school), but 600 seems pretty normal to me.
Lady Jinte wrote:
Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points
Lets see what level 50 XIV players are saying on the official site shall we?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/91315-Will-realm-reborn-stand-the-test-of-time
These are people that have lervel 50 jobs that have played the game for quite some time now, this ins't just me saying XIV is the lesser of these 2 games, just read that thread. XIV is far more likely to go into a catastrophic decline than FFXI is and I'm not the only one that can see it.
Haha they deleted the thread, I wonder why!
Edited, Sep 16th 2013 5:31am by preludes
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You can create a very long list of things (just a preview: no multinational presence, less importance placed on economy/crafting/gathering, very little community building mechanics, very little cooperative mechanics, journey to cap is mainly a solo affair with FATEs steamrolling over content, AF quests are a complete joke and there are no other milestones outside the main scenario, this game actively discourages leveling multiple classes on one character because there is so little valid leveling content and the endgame grind is extreme and narrow) that makes this game different from FFXI and it would certainly be longer than a comparison to The Old Republic or other post-WoW MMOs.
If we were talking FFXIV 1.23, maybe that'd be a different story (but then that game couldn't shake the long shadow of its 1.0 launch and they never tried to fix the first 30 or so levels of it - never tried to make guidleves more interesting).
In any case, I expect this game to go F2P during the PS4's release or a year after the very latest. I make this predication mainly on three reasons:
1) FATEs is terrible content and is the face of the first 49 levels after completing most of the main scenario (which most players will do in the first month) and last 9 levels during it due to leveling gaps. Bad design doesn't begin to describe how these play out. Complete and utter mess once you add more than 15 players into it (when it isn't crashing the server) and it is not even all that great with small party because they designed them to be anti-cooperative. It also discourages players from using dungeons to level, meaning MS progression may become very difficult (for damage dealers in particular). In essence, the first 49 levels is filler trash aside from the main scenario (with most quests within the main scenario being filler trash) to waste players time before they can access the endgame (did I mention this game is nothing like FFXI?). Yoshi-P sees nothing wrong with this design and seemingly just wants people to get into the endgame asap. Well, what's waiting for them?
2) The endgame is an insane grind that 99% of casual players will want nothing to do with (the last 1% will probably quit when people using duty finder treat them like crap since this game's "community" is already in the gutter). The entire game's loot progression, including crafted alternatives, revolves around gathering the same two types of tokens. This means instead of doing a lot of activities for an unknown reward players will do the most effective thing to watch a single number climb. The other source of loot, primal battles, is actually more punishing than it was in 1.23. People are doing these battles dozens and dozens of times, getting nothing out of it for their class. The deeper, most essential problem is that progression is design in a way that only goes in one direction: item level up. Gear is all the same (the same as your level 15 dungeon gear, but with better stats). Stuff like Artifact Armor quests exist to easily obtain a set which makes dungeon and crafting gear useless for that level range (there's nothing interesting about it too). To have progression the item level must quickly expand. This means less variety, more repetition: you can't do higher level content because you fail gear checks, you don't want to do lower level content because everything is useless. Linear, narrow and all about gear checks. Currently many players are stuck doing the exact same dungeon dozens and dozens of times for tomestones.
3) There is no community to convince players to put up with the tedium (and additional monthly cost), not like FFXI anyway (note FFXI also had better variety at any given moment despite being grindy). If you are lucky, you'll make friends with people in your FC (assuming it doesn't feel like a 300-man chat room), but FFXIV is game where people don't rely on each other for anything more than short-term gain. Cross-server duty finder, non-cooperative FATEs (which are too broken and dumb to even require any sort of thinking anyway), and solo-centric quests means this game isn't building a meaningful connection with one's server. Tomestones plus duty finder creates a scenario where people are looking to strangers to progress even if it doesn't work very well (especially around Titan/Garuda hard mode) and they are treating people like crap, because... why not? Different server, doesn't matter. Consider that you get your AF alone, instead of working together with people on your server (not true for FFXI or 1.23). Meaning that's one less moment your FC/LS/server could have mattered to you.
Note I'm saying it will go F2P some time from now. Things can change. I don't think they will though. Yoshi-P and co seem dead set on making this game not stand apart from the MMOs which are now going F2P (even WoW has been rumored to be looking in that direction). I don't even think they know what they are doing with what made this game different the first place. Look, they have this guildleve system no one is using because of FATEs and... they are adding daily quests. Guildleves are daily quests.
EDIT: This game rushes you to the endgame. The main scenario pushes you quest to quest so you can quickly reach lv. 40 (from there it still pushes you, but you have to rely more on grinding in other ways - mainly FATEs). It is not like players have much of a choice. When you provide grinding dungeon loot as an alternative, consider that loot is pretty much vanity wear given the game's progression. Pretty unreasonable to expect players to spend their time on that when the game is pushing them forward.
EDIT: Something to note: This game likely cost several times more than FFXI did and certainly more than any FFXI expansion. Nevermind it is a MMO in an era where videogame development prices have significantly increased, they made this game after trashing a whole other game before it (one several years in development). Maybe 500k subscribers won't be enough this time.
If we were talking FFXIV 1.23, maybe that'd be a different story (but then that game couldn't shake the long shadow of its 1.0 launch and they never tried to fix the first 30 or so levels of it - never tried to make guidleves more interesting).
In any case, I expect this game to go F2P during the PS4's release or a year after the very latest. I make this predication mainly on three reasons:
1) FATEs is terrible content and is the face of the first 49 levels after completing most of the main scenario (which most players will do in the first month) and last 9 levels during it due to leveling gaps. Bad design doesn't begin to describe how these play out. Complete and utter mess once you add more than 15 players into it (when it isn't crashing the server) and it is not even all that great with small party because they designed them to be anti-cooperative. It also discourages players from using dungeons to level, meaning MS progression may become very difficult (for damage dealers in particular). In essence, the first 49 levels is filler trash aside from the main scenario (with most quests within the main scenario being filler trash) to waste players time before they can access the endgame (did I mention this game is nothing like FFXI?). Yoshi-P sees nothing wrong with this design and seemingly just wants people to get into the endgame asap. Well, what's waiting for them?
2) The endgame is an insane grind that 99% of casual players will want nothing to do with (the last 1% will probably quit when people using duty finder treat them like crap since this game's "community" is already in the gutter). The entire game's loot progression, including crafted alternatives, revolves around gathering the same two types of tokens. This means instead of doing a lot of activities for an unknown reward players will do the most effective thing to watch a single number climb. The other source of loot, primal battles, is actually more punishing than it was in 1.23. People are doing these battles dozens and dozens of times, getting nothing out of it for their class. The deeper, most essential problem is that progression is design in a way that only goes in one direction: item level up. Gear is all the same (the same as your level 15 dungeon gear, but with better stats). Stuff like Artifact Armor quests exist to easily obtain a set which makes dungeon and crafting gear useless for that level range (there's nothing interesting about it too). To have progression the item level must quickly expand. This means less variety, more repetition: you can't do higher level content because you fail gear checks, you don't want to do lower level content because everything is useless. Linear, narrow and all about gear checks. Currently many players are stuck doing the exact same dungeon dozens and dozens of times for tomestones.
3) There is no community to convince players to put up with the tedium (and additional monthly cost), not like FFXI anyway (note FFXI also had better variety at any given moment despite being grindy). If you are lucky, you'll make friends with people in your FC (assuming it doesn't feel like a 300-man chat room), but FFXIV is game where people don't rely on each other for anything more than short-term gain. Cross-server duty finder, non-cooperative FATEs (which are too broken and dumb to even require any sort of thinking anyway), and solo-centric quests means this game isn't building a meaningful connection with one's server. Tomestones plus duty finder creates a scenario where people are looking to strangers to progress even if it doesn't work very well (especially around Titan/Garuda hard mode) and they are treating people like crap, because... why not? Different server, doesn't matter. Consider that you get your AF alone, instead of working together with people on your server (not true for FFXI or 1.23). Meaning that's one less moment your FC/LS/server could have mattered to you.
Note I'm saying it will go F2P some time from now. Things can change. I don't think they will though. Yoshi-P and co seem dead set on making this game not stand apart from the MMOs which are now going F2P (even WoW has been rumored to be looking in that direction). I don't even think they know what they are doing with what made this game different the first place. Look, they have this guildleve system no one is using because of FATEs and... they are adding daily quests. Guildleves are daily quests.
EDIT: This game rushes you to the endgame. The main scenario pushes you quest to quest so you can quickly reach lv. 40 (from there it still pushes you, but you have to rely more on grinding in other ways - mainly FATEs). It is not like players have much of a choice. When you provide grinding dungeon loot as an alternative, consider that loot is pretty much vanity wear given the game's progression. Pretty unreasonable to expect players to spend their time on that when the game is pushing them forward.
EDIT: Something to note: This game likely cost several times more than FFXI did and certainly more than any FFXI expansion. Nevermind it is a MMO in an era where videogame development prices have significantly increased, they made this game after trashing a whole other game before it (one several years in development). Maybe 500k subscribers won't be enough this time.
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I am also done with the game, I really tried hard to enjoy the end game content as much as possible but it ended up way too boring. Imo I think it will go more or less how rift ended up, which is fine in all I just had higher expectations going in I guess. Capping myth for the next couple of months until 2.1 with only AK runs is just too mind numbing, the fights are way to easy the only thing challenging about is making people move to avoid getting 1 shot to 80% of hp dmg dealt. People that say your not forced to cap myth are just silly have fun not progressing and getting left in the dust by people who don't mind spending 6-8 hours a week in the same dungeon. For me I actually like to have fun while playing, and its just not my cup of tea not to stay other people might really enjoy this mindless grind.
FFXIV was well worth the 30$ for 150-200+ hour I put into it.
FFXIV was well worth the 30$ for 150-200+ hour I put into it.
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Game is already boring after 2 weeks from launch, at 50 nothing much to do if not spam 3 dungeons over and over. 2 for points one is coil.
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Well, FFXI filled a niche most MMOs didn't offer at the time (though it did borrow ideas from older MMOs than it). Hard to explain but It had a crowd because it was so different from the popular MMOs of its time... This game is essentially what all new MMOs are, WoW clones. It does some things different, it borrows some things, but its mostly just another WoW clones.
So it really offers nothing unique except the Final Fantasy name, and a subscription fee for good measures. Personally I really do enjoy FFXIV but I don't see it lasting a great deal of time unless stuff changes or they find ways to stand apart from other MMOs rather than borrowing good concepts.
So it really offers nothing unique except the Final Fantasy name, and a subscription fee for good measures. Personally I really do enjoy FFXIV but I don't see it lasting a great deal of time unless stuff changes or they find ways to stand apart from other MMOs rather than borrowing good concepts.
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Hit max level and you'll see why it probably won't.
At 50? Boring unholy grindfest.
Level a 2nd or 3rd job? Boring unholy grindfest.
Everything becomes a horrendous grind once you hit max level, and not a good grind in the sense of "oh wow it may take me some time to get my gear, at least the content is FUN!". It's not fun. It's HORRENDOUSLY monotonous and slooooowwww.
At 50? Boring unholy grindfest.
Level a 2nd or 3rd job? Boring unholy grindfest.
Everything becomes a horrendous grind once you hit max level, and not a good grind in the sense of "oh wow it may take me some time to get my gear, at least the content is FUN!". It's not fun. It's HORRENDOUSLY monotonous and slooooowwww.
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Either F2P or with the same amount of people they had in 1.0.
- Horrible customer service/support
- Garbage servers with a build in delay
- Generic in every aspect.
If this game didn't had final fantasy tag above it most of you would flame the living hell out of it or call it a WOW clone.
Since that is what it is, a poor mans version of WOW with a Final Fantasy IP.
It's fun for a short while, but it lacks so much to last longer.
- Horrible customer service/support
- Garbage servers with a build in delay
- Generic in every aspect.
If this game didn't had final fantasy tag above it most of you would flame the living hell out of it or call it a WOW clone.
Since that is what it is, a poor mans version of WOW with a Final Fantasy IP.
It's fun for a short while, but it lacks so much to last longer.
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I had high hopes for this game even while levelling up, it was very fun, but sadly endgame is insanely boring and I have very little desire to log in and play anymore. Running the same dungeon and knowing the gear you will get after a billion runs of that dungeon is the only content in the game right now and I can't bring myself to do it.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/91315-Will-realm-reborn-stand-the-test-of-time
These are people that have lervel 50 jobs that have played the game for quite some time now, this ins't just me saying XIV is the lesser of these 2 games, just read that thread. XIV is far more likely to go into a catastrophic decline than FFXI is and I'm not the only one that can see it.
Haha they deleted the thread, I wonder why!
Edited, Sep 16th 2013 5:31am by preludes
Grumpy hardcores burnt themselves out? Ya don't say. Be careful in assuming your opinion is the majority just because a few posters elsewhere happened to agree with you. I find myself reminded of all the pro Rift players who loved to claim everyone had max Planar Attunement (merits) only for Daglar to come out and say only 0.03% of the player base had that in a live stream. Happy players will actually be playing. Some people even outright avoid forums due to elitist mentalities, unsolicited mockery, and unreasonable expectation if they even have the time to waste browsing them.
Yes, end game is a grind. That's true in every ******* MMO, honestly. 2.1 will add some more content, that's pretty much been guaranteed. Or are we just going to fall into the trap that a game less than a month old needs to have the same amount of content as one 10+ years old? Because as many outlined on the XIV board here within your "small world" ***** thread, XI didn't exactly start out a glamorous potpourri of content, either.
Yes, end game is a grind. That's true in every ******* MMO, honestly. 2.1 will add some more content, that's pretty much been guaranteed. Or are we just going to fall into the trap that a game less than a month old needs to have the same amount of content as one 10+ years old? Because as many outlined on the XIV board here within your "small world" ***** thread, XI didn't exactly start out a glamorous potpourri of content, either.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
From my experience with pretty much every mmo launch, hardcores are no different than everyone else. The only difference is they hit the wall sooner, that's it. The casuals will be complaining too, once they see what the players that put in more time can see.
XI came out when endgame content didn't matter, I played FFXI for a solid 18 months before I even knew what endgame content was. I'm sure you were the same, XIV launched at a time when the majority of players care more about endgame content than any other aspect of the game (the design of XIV doesn't help in that it speeds you to the cap). This is what WoW did to the MMO community and like it or not that is how the game will be judged.
It wouldn't matter so much that XIV has so little content if it didn't have incredibly fast leveling, but it does. It tries to speed you to endgame and there is very little there, and what is there is grinding 2-3 dungeons over and over again. It's fail no matter how you look at it adn that is why most players are going to bail on that game.
Oh and XIV does have a very tiny world, even compared to almost every other mmo at launch. Depressingly small. I find it hilarious you point out that XIV is a tiny world and some players try to defend that saying you see more players around you in a smaller world.. lol
Edited, Sep 16th 2013 8:03am by preludes
XI came out when endgame content didn't matter, I played FFXI for a solid 18 months before I even knew what endgame content was. I'm sure you were the same, XIV launched at a time when the majority of players care more about endgame content than any other aspect of the game (the design of XIV doesn't help in that it speeds you to the cap). This is what WoW did to the MMO community and like it or not that is how the game will be judged.
It wouldn't matter so much that XIV has so little content if it didn't have incredibly fast leveling, but it does. It tries to speed you to endgame and there is very little there, and what is there is grinding 2-3 dungeons over and over again. It's fail no matter how you look at it adn that is why most players are going to bail on that game.
Oh and XIV does have a very tiny world, even compared to almost every other mmo at launch. Depressingly small. I find it hilarious you point out that XIV is a tiny world and some players try to defend that saying you see more players around you in a smaller world.. lol
Edited, Sep 16th 2013 8:03am by preludes
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Oh and XIV does have a very tiny world, even compared to almost every other mmo at launch. Depressingly small. I find it hilarious you point out that XIV is a tiny world and some players try to defend that saying you see more players around you in a smaller world.. lol
I proved you wrong in the XIV forums and I'll do it here too if you don't stop spreading around this incorrect information. XI was smaller at launch in Japan. Stop making stuff up.
Catwho wrote:
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Oh and XIV does have a very tiny world, even compared to almost every other mmo at launch. Depressingly small. I find it hilarious you point out that XIV is a tiny world and some players try to defend that saying you see more players around you in a smaller world.. lol
I proved you wrong in the XIV forums and I'll do it here too if you don't stop spreading around this incorrect information. XI was smaller at launch in Japan. Stop making stuff up.
Lies. FFXI had these zones at releasse in Japan, and these are not small tunnel zones many of these are huge zones. Meri mountains or rolanberry for instance.
Original Areas
Cities in Original Areas
Bastok (4 zone city)
Jeuno (4 zone city)
Mhaura (1 zone)
San d'Oria (4 zone city)
Selbina (1 zone)
Windurst (5 zones)
Wilderness Areas in Original Areas (huge areas)
Batallia Downs
Beaucedine Glacier
Behemoth's Dominion
Buburimu Peninsula
East Ronfaure
East Sarutabaruta
Jugner Forest
Konschtat Highlands
La Theine Plateau
Meriphataud Mountains
North Gustaberg
Pashhow Marshlands
Qufim Island
Rolanberry
Sauromugue Champaign
South Gustaberg
Tahrongi Canyon
Valkurm Dunes
West Ronfaure
West Sarutabaruta
Xarcabard
Dungeons in Original Areas
Altar Room
Beadeaux
Castle Oztroja
Castle Zvahl Baileys
Castle Zvahl Keep
Crawlers' Nest
Davoi
The Eldieme Necropolis
Inner Horutoto Ruins
Fei'Yin
Fort Ghelsba
Garlaige Citadel
Ghelsba Outpost
Giddeus
Gusgen Mines
Horlais Peak
King Ranperre's Tomb
Lower Delkfutt's Tower
Middle Delkfutt's Tower
Monastic Cavern
Ordelle's Caves
Outer Horutoto Ruins
Palborough Mines
Qulun Dome
Ranguemont Pass
Upper Delkfutt's Tower
Yughott Grotto
Zeruhn Mines
---- NA launch had the ones below too if you wish to add those on, or not. Still bigger without.
Zilart
Cities in Zilart Areas
Kazham
Norg
Rabao
Wilderness Areas in Zilart Areas
Eastern Altepa Desert
Western Altepa Desert
Yhoator Jungle
Yuhtunga Jungle
Dungeons in Zilart Areas
The Boyahda Tree
Cape Teriggan
Dynamis - Bastok
Dynamis - San d'Oria
Dynamis - Windurst
Gustav Tunnel
Ifrit's Cauldron
Korroloka Tunnel
Ru'Aun Gardens
Sea Serpent Grotto
The Shrine of Ru'Avitau
Ve'Lugannon Palace
Let me buy a warehouse to store a single can of beans. That's pretty much what you're defending of those "big" zones. Like I said in the XIV thread, it's not the size of the zone that matters, it's what you do in it. Pound for pound, XIV zones have exponentially more activities going on within them even if you do find them monotonous eventually. Running from the Buburiumu outpost to Onzozo sure was an enriching experience, especially when on a chocobo where nothing would aggro.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Many of the zones listed were not available in release - they were added in patches within that first year. For example, I'm pretty sure Behemoth's Dominion was added with RotZ (because none of the land kings were added until the level cap was raised to 75.)
The level cap for XI was 50 when it was released. Zones that had missions up to and including JSE and Rank 5 were there - the Rank 6 stuff (Beaucedine, Xarcabard, Fei'Yin, Shadowlord, etc) were added in patches in those first few months.
The level cap for XI was 50 when it was released. Zones that had missions up to and including JSE and Rank 5 were there - the Rank 6 stuff (Beaucedine, Xarcabard, Fei'Yin, Shadowlord, etc) were added in patches in those first few months.
Seriha wrote:
Let me buy a warehouse to store a single can of beans. That's pretty much what you're defending of those "big" zones. Like I said in the XIV thread, it's not the size of the zone that matters, it's what you do in it. Pound for pound, XIV zones have exponentially more activities going on within them even if you do find them monotonous eventually. Running from the Buburiumu outpost to Onzozo sure was an enriching experience, especially when on a chocobo where nothing would aggro.
As I said before, I find it hilarious that people defend such small worlds. If you can have a bigger world to explore it's never a bad thing, you can still have active areas and areas just for exploring (that have genuinly cool things to go look at). One of the major things in an MMO is exploring the world, seeing the sights etc. I've played plenty of mmos with big open worlds that were a pleasure to explore, you can still ignore all of that if you wish and stick to the quest areas. Heck FFXIV doesn't even have the best MMO graphics in an MMO, there are far prettier mmos out there with far bigger worlds.
Quote:
Many of the zones listed were not available in release - they were added in patches within that first year. For example, I'm pretty sure Behemoth's Dominion was added with RotZ (because none of the land kings were added until the level cap was raised to 75.)
The level cap for XI was 50 when it was released. Zones that had missions up to and including JSE and Rank 5 were there - the Rank 6 stuff (Beaucedine, Xarcabard, Fei'Yin, Shadowlord, etc) were added in patches in those first few months.
The level cap for XI was 50 when it was released. Zones that had missions up to and including JSE and Rank 5 were there - the Rank 6 stuff (Beaucedine, Xarcabard, Fei'Yin, Shadowlord, etc) were added in patches in those first few months.
They were in original releases, patches didn't add new zones (and if you say otherwise prove it). Expansions do.
Anyway when FFXI released in NA it had an expansion with it, no matter how you wanna colour it ARR is an expansion. A cataclysm like expansion pack ontop of FFXIV, same races, same models, many of the same world resources, same endgame content. FFXIV came out in 2010.
Edited, Sep 16th 2013 10:38am by preludes
Eh, I played 1.0 and the game engine is completely different. (And waaaaaaaay better.) It's a remake, not an expansion.
I'm only defending this "ridiculously small world" because I still haven't run out of things to see or do or marvel at, and I've been playing it since alpha last December.
I'm only defending this "ridiculously small world" because I still haven't run out of things to see or do or marvel at, and I've been playing it since alpha last December.
Quote:
As I said before, I find it hilarious that people defend such small worlds. If you can have a bigger world to explore it's never a bad thing, you can still have active areas and areas just for exploring (that have genuinly cool things to go look at). One of the major things in an MMO is exploring the world, seeing the sights etc. I've played plenty of mmos with big open worlds that were a pleasure to explore, you can still ignore all of that if you wish and stick to the quest areas. Heck FFXIV doesn't even have the best MMO graphics in an MMO, there are far prettier mmos out there with far bigger worlds.
You want fluff. I want function. The bigger a zone is, the more art assets that are required and testing need to make sure people don't fall through the ground or do other unintended things. If all you want out of this is a pretty place to take a screenshot, then I'm afraid you should take yourself up on that proposition of there being prettier (and better?) games out there and just remove yourself from any future XIV discussion. "We'll put something there later!" is something Trion tried to pass with Rift and zones like Seratos in the SL expansion. The place is just a big, giant undead **** of terrain. I'm of the mind that if a zone is going to be released, you do so in a finished or damn-near finished state. This philosophy of incompletion is also what forces XI to lose points with me as they've yet to release an expansion that didn't seem more than 30% done at launch with WotG being the biggest offender here with Adoulin certainly being open for debate nowadays.
These games are combat systems first. Using Fast Blade does the same thing in Saruta as it does in Sea. Only thing that changes is stats between myself and the target. And while I have no interest in seeing you veer off into a tangent about how XIV's combat system sucks and lacks depth again, you're gonna need to accept that these are just graphical MUDs as far as our current level of technology is concerned. I'll worry more about the finer intricacies of environmental design when/if we ever get sensory immersive VR. Then we could talk about not feeling the wind on our skin, detecting the scent of chocobo ****, or not being able to see when hit with a blinding effect. Until then, there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to what kind of attention devs can give to a location. So just hide behind claims of defense, white knighting, or whatever if it helps you feel better about waxing your grudge on us all.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
i made this thread a few years back on how FFXI started, very interesting read. thought it was kind of related to a few post here so i thought i would share
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=13199913486292450
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=13199913486292450
Ba1dw1n wrote:
i made this thread a few years back on how FFXI started, very interesting read. thought it was kind of related to a few post here so i thought i would share
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=13199913486292450
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=13199913486292450
Very cool, thanks for linking that. It appears I was wrong about CN not being included in the starter zones, at least the upper levels.
I wonder what the "dungeon's location has been changed into a crude place" meant?
preludes wrote:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/91315-Will-realm-reborn-stand-the-test-of-time
These are people that have lervel 50 jobs that have played the game for quite some time now, this ins't just me saying XIV is the lesser of these 2 games, just read that thread. XIV is far more likely to go into a catastrophic decline than FFXI is and I'm not the only one that can see it.
Haha they deleted the thread, I wonder why
And 3 of the 10 main topics on on the official XI forums are, Can we haz a merge, server population and why XI is on the decline. Since many of these posters are hardcore players, and many of them saying that the pop is dwindling, they must all be right too! FFXI is dying folks, according to those who again blast through content.
Building a warehouse for a can of beans is a great way to summarize ffxi zones.
And Preludes, what is all this talk of tunnel zones? I you are not talking about the monotonous, maze maps of the Adoulin expansion, then seriously, I don't know where you're going with that. Each zone of ffxiv is packed with different towns, landmarks, farms, taverns, etc... You never pass through a zone once and never go back again.
Ffxi's zones do feel bigger, but, by Altana, they sure are boring when compared to FFXIV. Although Vana'diel still has its charm at times, the design concepts of Eorzea were definitely for the best.
And Preludes, what is all this talk of tunnel zones? I you are not talking about the monotonous, maze maps of the Adoulin expansion, then seriously, I don't know where you're going with that. Each zone of ffxiv is packed with different towns, landmarks, farms, taverns, etc... You never pass through a zone once and never go back again.
Ffxi's zones do feel bigger, but, by Altana, they sure are boring when compared to FFXIV. Although Vana'diel still has its charm at times, the design concepts of Eorzea were definitely for the best.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
I hope they fire whoever designed the Yorcea Weald map. 
They managed to make a map more useless than Yhoater Jungle. Maybe that was the challenge? And the dude won a free lunch from the graphics department for winning.
They managed to make a map more useless than Yhoater Jungle. Maybe that was the challenge? And the dude won a free lunch from the graphics department for winning.
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