Item Levels Follow

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#77 Jul 11 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good

Szabo

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Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello, Matsui here.

I would like to apologize for leaving out two items from the version update notes:
-The magical resistance value cap for both characters and monsters has been increased
-A bug wherein it was possible to charm monsters that could not originally be charmed has been addressed

This happened because the development team didn't provided the needed information to the operations team. The information was also not properly shared within the development team itself.

I feel that the development team has a tendency to prioritize implementation over communication in order to meet deadlines. Going forward, I've taken steps to ensure that they place the same amount of importance on properly communicating information to users as they do for implementation. I'll continue to repeat this and make sure we are thorough.

I deeply apologize for the inconveniences caused by this.

Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello, Matsui here.

Thanks for all the feedback on the July version update.

Since we've received quite a few questions about the "combat skill +" stat that has been added to new items, I'd like to talk a bit about this as well as talk about future plans.

â€¢ What is "combat skill +"?

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This is a new bonus stat that is being added to weapons, and it is different than the stat that originally appeared on armor (Though, there are some exceptions. Scathacha for example, but the stat is the same as that which appears on armor.)

â€¢ How is this different than the "combat skill +" that weâ€™ve seen up until now?

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The main weapon and sub weapon are calculated independently.

â€¢ Why did you decide to add "combat skill +"?

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In the event we were to adjust "accuracy +" and "attack +", it would conflict with dual-wielding.

This is an issue that has been brought up previously. We have to take into consideration that weapons can be dual-wielded when adding stats, because when we add things like "accuracy +" and "attack +" that apply to sub weapons, it will always make dual-wielding the best choice.

Similarly, there were aspects that would make adjusting one-handed and two-handed weapons even more difficult.

In order to solve this, we implemented a new system, "combat skill +".

â€¢ But, aren't you only adding "combat skill +" to certain weapons?

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With some exceptions, we will be adding this stat to weapons with an item level above 100.

â€¢ Please go into a bit more detail.

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With weapons that are implemented moving forward, we'll be adding the proportionate amount of "combat skill +" to match the item level of the weapon.

For existing weapons, we plan on switching out "accuracy +" and "attack +" for "combat skill +".

Especially for one-handed weapons, after making the switch to "combat skill +", youâ€™ll be able to better assess the accuracy and attack for dual-wielding.

â€¢ Tell us which weapons "combat skill +" will be added to.

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I'll share with you a couple of examples of the weapons we will be adjusting in the August version update. (Since this is still in-development, the values may be changed, but they are pretty much set.)

â€¢ Camatlatia (reward from Achuka)
Before: DMG: 76 Delay: 240 STR +8 Fire +20 Physical damage taken -4%
After: DMG: 76 Delay: 240 STR +8 Fire +20 Sword Skill +67 Parry Skill +67 Physical damage taken -4%

â€¢ Iztaasu (Skirmish weapon)
Before: DMG: 68 Delay: 236
After: DMG: 68 Delay: 236 Sword Skill +54 Parry Skill +54

â€¢ Forefront Blade (Bayld weapon)
Before: DMG: 71 Delay: 247 Accuracy +15 Reives: DMG: 89 Accuracy +25
After: DMG: 71 Delay: 247 Accuracy +15 Attack +7 Sword Skill +63 Parry Skill +25 Reives: DMG: 89 Accuracy +25

â€¢ What about relics, mythics, and empyreans?

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While it will not take place in the August version update, we will be adjusting these to make them higher than item level 100.

I tried to answer some of the major questions that were brought up with post.

I'd like to also apologize once again for the large feeling of uneasiness towards the current adjustments due to the new equipment implementation and stat adjustments taking place in August.

The entire development team is working as hard as possible to get everything in to the August version update. Thank you very much for your patience.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=454220#post454220

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 7:56pm by Szabo

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#78 REDACTED, Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 7:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) There are level 100+ enemies outside Ulbuka. Do you think they will zone by zone, monster by monster manually change every monster, or slap a single game wide "If level >99, then use item level" patch onto the whole game?

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#79 Jul 11 2013 at 8:03 PM Rating: Excellent

rdmcandie

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louispv wrote:

BrownDuck wrote:

louispv wrote:

Camate wrote:

Greetings!
So basically, everything before Adoulin will still work the way it does currently, and all the monsters for Adoulin and beyond will have this adjustment applied.

Again, having item levels displayed on equipment is just a different way of showing character growth instead of having your character physically level up past level 99.

Well that isn't actually just adoulin areas then. Anything EM and up to 99's will be affected, and there's some of those in old areas.

What part of "everything before adoulin" doesn't comprehend for you?

The part you edited out because it says the exact opposite of that?

Quote:

To accomplish this we will be keeping the experience points received for monsters level 99 and below the same and only making adjustments to monsters level 100+.

There are level 100+ enemies outside Ulbuka. Do you think they will zone by zone, monster by monster manually change every monster, or slap a single game wide "If level >99, then use item level" patch onto the whole game?

]

They only need to target zones that have dependancy on the .XXX version number.
.01 being vanilla
.02 ROTZ
.03 COP

and so on and so forth. making it pretty damn easy to target a specific set of regions for update. That is assuming SE has the expansion dependancies listed as such...which they probably do considering without SoA, you can't go to SoA, but still have the files for SoA, they just aren't turned on until you register SoA.

(now those might not be exact variables just an example, nearly every game with expansions separates them into different numbers, that way if you don't have the expansion, you don't get the content.)
Edited, Jul 11th 2013 10:07pm by rdmcandie

Edited, Jul 11th 2013 10:22pm by rdmcandie

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#80 Jul 31 2013 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good

Szabo

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6,096 posts

Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello, Matsui here.

Thank you for all of your feedback and thoughts.

I'd like to respond to some questions and feedback, as well as let you know some updates on content that is being adjusted.

â€¢ Make item levels easier to see.

Quote:

The development team would like to improve this, but this is something that we need some time to do.

Of the feedback we have received, requests for making this hidden (=a hidden stat) and requests for the addition of a new UI where this information could be consolidated stand out the most.
(The latter request also involving that it goes with the new Windows UI.)

In regards to the request for making it a hidden stat, if the rule was as simple as "item level 100 = +5 to each stat," then it wouldn't be that much of a problem; however, it's not as simple as this and I believe it would become even more difficult to understand.

Next, in order for us to change the display method and add a new UI, we would have to process the help text with the program itself and display it; however, the current help text is simply text data and addressing this would become difficult.

To solve this, we would have to make the display data into client data and create a system to display this data; however, this would impact the client memory in a large way. Additionally, the fact that there are a lot of special characteristics for FFXI equipment bonuses is yet another factor adding to the difficulty for this.

Instead of aiming for a perfect solution, I feel it would be best to put emphasis on making it better than it is currently.

â€¢ You said you would be adding more physical damage reduction equipment, but it doesnâ€™t look like you did.

Quote:

The goal was not to increase the amount of physical damage reduction equipment; the goal was to close the gap that was opening up between the defensively proficient paladin and other jobs. (It's not that we are putting them at the same defensive level, we just want to shrink the large gap a bit.)

In other words, if we were to adjust the power of monster attacks with the original defensive difference, jobs other than paladins would end up taking severe damage or it would make all jobs completely unafraid of getting hit.

I'm also aware that only having physical damage reduction as we continue to make adjustments is somewhat problematic. (For example, it would take away the need to have curing power above a certain level.)

With that said, we are looking into alternative methods with jobs and items, and as we foresee that we can achieve our goal by mainly adjusting HP and defense, we have decided to make that the basis of our adjustments.

We apologize for making you worry about there not being any physical damage reduction stats; however, the adjustment plans that were conveyed previously have not been changed. Also, it's not like we are going to rule out physical damage reduction as an equipment bonus, and we plan on implementing gear in the future with this stat.

â€¢ The effects of "magic damage +" is weak, so please make this value higher.

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As this is something that is being worked on as a new parameter, the effect that you are seeing right now is in a weaker state than normal.

Once development and testing have been completed and the effect becomes what was planned, it will be a stat that can be understood better, and we will be keeping it as it is until that time.

â€¢How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?

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We will be introducing equipment with magic accuracy, but the main method of doing this will be by increasing magical accuracy and magic damage depending on the value of your "combat skill +" for the weapon equipped in your main hand.

â€¢ Will the utsusemi adjustments apply to ninja support job as well?

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Similar to the adjustments of the damage values for physical blue magic spells, this adjustment will only be applied to ninja when it is your main job.

â€¢ There are some job abilities and equipment that are affected by level. Will these be affected by item levels?

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Neither will be affected by item levels.

â€¢ Make the item level of equippable items the same for each job.

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I apologize for there not being enough equipment variations.

Due to the fact that there are a large amount of items in content such as skirmish, delve, and coalitions, as well as content such as wildskeeper reives that have different types of equipment, it's difficult to always have the same exact item levels for every job at any given point in time, but we will be preparing a variety of equipment that can be obtained in a variety of ways, which will enable you to procure all of the weapons for that item level.
(One large reason for this is that the rewards for wildskeeper reives have had their graphics designed based on the Naakuals.)

We are currently in the midst of preparing weapon enhancements and new armor for the new skirmishes which are in development, so please hang in there a bit longer.

Finally, I have one more thing I would like to inform you of.

Currently, of the shield stats that you can check on the Test Server, weâ€™ve made the "shield skill +" values extremely small.

This is because these values were added based on the revamps to the shield activation rate calculation criteria; however, as a result of our testing, we've determined that when facing monsters that are above a certain strength the activation rate of Ochain has fallen roughly 30%.

Due to this, we are separating the criteria data and adding to the value of "shield skill +" so that the current shield activation rate is not changed.

I just wanted to let everyone know this ahead of time as I'm sure there would be some surprise when seeing this on the Test Server after I said there would not be large variations on the stats found there.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36018-possible-oversight-with-the-new-ilvl-system?p=460743#post460743

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 6:44pm by Szabo

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#81 Jul 31 2013 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent

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Wow, will you look at that, they added it to the test server, and it applies to every enemy, everywhere, even under level 100.

Hate to say I told you so, but...

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#82 Jul 31 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent

Erecia

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3,638 posts

Am I the only one that's a little sad that SE seems to have regretted the subjob idea completely and has been introducing stuff that disregards subjob, against introduced game mechanics, for the better part of the past 5 years or so?

Edited, Jul 31st 2013 8:47pm by Erecia

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#83 Jul 31 2013 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent

Solonuke

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641 posts

I think it's a bit silly they're concerned about Ochain when every other REM weapon out there has been replaced for now.

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#84 Jul 31 2013 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good

Seriha

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11,159 posts

Erecia wrote:

Are you looking at this from the context of main-hand +Skill for Blue Magic and Utsusemi? Because the way I see it, even if it did apply, it'd largely be a wash due to the subjob skills being half-level to begin with. In the case of Blue Magic, you're already dealing with generally inferior DPS spells, with most people picking the sub for Cocoon and perhaps some traits that can be set. What translates to a slightly higher D-rating for spells like Jet Stream or Bludgeon won't impact the game for the better. In the case of Utsu, it's not unlike the 20% evasion floor if mobs have significantly higher ACC than your EVA. Would people who see abilities that commonly strip 3 shadows suddenly take 2 if the +skill applied? I doubt it on content that's ilvl appropriate.

Perhaps this is more a symptom of skill bloat, though, instead of our myriad abilities sharing more common factors. Consider the Magic merit categories. You have Elemental, Enfeebling, Enhancing, Healing, Dark, Divine, Singing, Wind, String, Summoning, Blue Magic, Ninjutsu, and I think 2 more associated with Geomancer? The "smart" thing to do here is to pick the skills that affect the most jobs, which would probably be the first three I listed. Would the game be better off if all of this were condensed into Offensive and Defensive magic categories? Yes, you'll have people who would ***** about losing their snowflake "main job" status if they're a career BRD with their respective categories maxed, but it should also serve as a universal buff to the subjob system if even WARs would come with an E rating in each despite having no innate caster stats. Hell, this could even warrant consideration to weapons by instead condensing to One-Handed, Two-Handed, Hand-to-Hand, and Ranged. Outright tie WS use to skill rating vs. player level with who can actually equip a given weapon being the "final" check and you give rise to quirky situations where maybe a SMN would want to use that Rune Chopper in lesser content.

But I've always felt XI's skill system a bit archaic and threatening that also risks the ire of those who admire the alleged gear diversity that simply favors scripters because there are certainly other extraneous mods out there. I know one of my hopes as they better flesh out Adoulin gear and build on the ilvl system is that gear swapping isn't as required to get by, but this will also require SE to create gear better tailored to the individual classes instead of assuming "the mages" work fine with just gobs of MP/INT/MND.

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#85 Aug 01 2013 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good

Szabo

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6,096 posts

Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello, Matsui here.

I'd like to respond to some of the feedback and questions that were generated as a result of yesterday's post.

Quote:

It seems like you are working with the people who are favorably accepting the whole concept of content levels and item levels, while you ignore the majority of feedback which are filled with criticism and concern.

Ever since Adoulin was released, I feel like the player base is decreasing with every update, and it seems like this is going to continue.

If you really want to proceed with content levels and items levels, I really think you should hurry and address inventory issues and improve the job disparity due to item levels.

We don't need content that makes people leave, so please focus on making content that will bring people back from here on out.

Please keep doing your best from September on as well.

If it seems that way, it's just my inadequacy and I will do my best to work harder on this.

There are times when I get a bit hung up thinking about how to respond to dissenting opinions and criticism, but I will do my best to grasp the real meaning and make the appropriate response.

As a result of this there are times when I do not make direct replies to feedback, and as I am not always quoting text it may seem that your feedback is being ignored. Also, there are cases it might feel this way when you don't receive an answer to certain things you were expecting and the subject continues to shift.

The way everyone thinks is different, and while a universally accepted answer is not very realistic, I will continue to do my best to ensure that I connect my responses to our position and conclusions that can be easily understood.

I posted yesterday about the item levels between jobs, but I will be responding about this more with the version update content.

We are also looking into Gobbiebags, but as there are risks that these will cause other inconveniences such, as items not displaying right away when logging in or changing areas, we would like to closely investigate methods that have low risk and have a high possibility of realizing (including methods other than Gobbiebags).

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When will the "magic damage +" effect become the full-on effect you planned?

We are working on this for the August 6th version update.

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What's going on with shield block rates now? And why is the Steadfast Shield a lower item level than the Faction Shield?

First, the current activation rate for shield blocks and parrying on the Test Server has become higher than normal due to a bug, just as was announced here.

Moving on to the second question, the Test Server data is still being adjusted, but will ultimately look like the below:

â€¢ Data currently being adjusted (Test Server data)
Killedar Shield (Delve boss) â€“ Item Level 117
Steadfast Shield (Delve NM) â€“ Item Level 105
Faction Shield (Bayld) â€“ Item Level 106

â†“
â€¢ Adjusted data
Killedar Shield (Delve boss) â€“ Item Level 117
Steadfast Shield (Delve NM) â€“ Item Level 113
Faction Shield (Bayld) â€“ Item Level 106

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1. Will the 90-100% block rate of Ochain be preserved?
2. Will other shields not be able to catch up to Ochain even with shield skill +?

Not only Ochain, but all existing shields will still have their same block rate as usual.

Other shields will not have a block rate that gets close to Ochain; however, there will be shields that have a higher damage reduction when blocking than Ochain.

More than just preserving Ochain, it's that we are in a situation where Ochain adjustments are extremely difficult due to the fact that strategies that involve the use of Ochain are well-established.

If we were to convert the block rate of Ochain into terms of item level, it would just about be item level 150. In the case we were to reduce the stats to something more proportionate (consider RME weapons), it would be tied to increased difficulties in Delve plasm farming and such.

If this is what is wanted, we can always take a look at reducing the block rate on Ochain; however, I don't believe you'd want this, and neither do I.

We'd like to avoid the consequences of nerfing Ochain, and have selected to add stats to shields we introduce here on out so they can gradually get closer to the stats of Ochain. If anything is unclear with these intentions, please let me know.

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Summoning skill affects physical-based blood pact accuracy and it seems like there are some item level 119 items, but none that make avatars level 119, so please add something for this.

Equipment that has "Avatar Lv. ***" has accuracy and other stats built into it.
We will be adding Avatar Lv. 114 and higher equipment in the future.

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Are you going to be adding equipment that boosts automaton skills?

The animators with item levels have accuracy and other stats built into them, and it will not increase individual automaton skills (melee skill, magic skill, and ranged skill).

This isn't to say that we will not be implementing equipment with "Melee Skill +" in the future; however, we do not have any plans to do so right now.

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For beastmaster, I feel like the pet stats do not match the item levels. I can't really play the normal beastmaster way because my pet's stats are so low even though I am using a high item level weapon.

Please increase pet stats so I can battle monsters properly.

By equipping a high item level weapon in your main hand coupled with the proper familiar, it is possible to call a pet with stats that match the level. (There is also Beast Affinity.)

As much I would like to give a slightly deeper answer, I can only answer broadly as we would like you all to discuss a bit more amongst yourselves and explore which pets to call and what equipment to wear.

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Red mage is the most proficient job for enfeebling magic and is losing out more than other jobs in terms of magic accuracy, especially since they cannot equip the Atinian Staff.

I'm really hoping you are able to grasp the current situation and make improvements.

I believe it looked as if red mage was left out of the equation with the question I answered yesterday that was phrased "How will you be enhancing magical accuracy for blue mage, dark knight, and ninja?"

Sorry about that.

The plan is not limited to only these jobs and we will be boosting magical accuracy based on the "combat skill +" added to weapons in general.

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Even using Tamaxchi as blue mage, I feel like the damage on physical spells wasn't increased much at all. I would like to see "combat skill +" directly affect blue magic attack power. With the monsters becoming stronger and stronger moving forward, it's going to be become increasingly tough to fight if blue magic specs remain this way.

I'm sure you know that there is a damage value cap for physical blue magic spells.

While I am not certain which spells you used that made you feel this way, it could be you are feeling this because you've hit the cap on Head Butt, Quadratic Continuum, and such.

Even for spells that weren't able to reach the cap before, by using equipment with "combat skill +" there are spells that will reach the cap and spells that have room to grow.

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Adding new equipment is really nice, but there's a lot of equipment from the past that looks really cool and it makes me want a way to upgrade them, or at least a way to separate the appearance from their stats so they can be used at high levels.

There are still some things that make me a bit hesitant about introducing a system where you can separate the appearance from the stats of equipment.

For FFXI, the animation packs are read via your main weapon, so we aren't able to do this completely with weapons. Think of it as we would have to limit it to being the same type of weapon.

In terms of armor, of the MMORPGs I have played that had this system, it resulted in a ton of people looking like they were fighting without any gear on at all.

Also, as we need to decide our position on whether or not it's okay that front-line jobs wear back-line equipment (and vice versa), as well as the fact that classic FF artifact equipment could be worn by other jobs, so please let us look into this a bit more.

We are planning to add high level equipment using graphics of popular existing items as well as revamping job-specific armor.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/36018-possible-oversight-with-the-new-ilvl-system?p=461098#post461098

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#86 Aug 01 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

Liar. Item level does not strengthen BST pets, they are a static level determined by the cap of the jug. Beast affinity can raise that, but only by a maximum of15, meaning none of our old pets can be used past level 114.

A Puppet with alternator can solo kill any enemy, literally any enemy in the game that doesn't have doom/death without any input from the player character. Avatars with the Sash/staff drop 8-10,000 damage bloodpacts while doing better per hit damage than BST pets. Even Wyverns hit for more if the DRG has an upikirex, because wyverns get stronger with a higher item level, unlike BST pets. Meanwhile with max beast affinity and augmented Monster gloves +2 and a level 115 axe, my pet hits for 1/2 of what my axe hits for, slower, with less accuracy, and it's WS's do less than it's normal melee hit. And to top that off only the 4 new jugs are even capable of going over level 114, so item level is pointless in determining "which pets to call." Dortwin, Xerin, and mafik are the only options for someone with a Hanapuh (level 115). And if you have a level 119 Kerecahtl, only Xerin and Mafik are usable, because Dorwin is level capped at 103. And as soon as there's a stronger axe added, they will also be useless as Xerin is capped at 105 and Mafik at 104.

Are you testing this on the same test server where you reported averaging 4,000 damage Cloudsplitters and always doing better damage than rampage/ruinator? Because I think there's something wrong with that test server.

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#87 Aug 01 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1687133914992

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ugh. So BST is just suck still eh? I figured as much. It looks like my two fave jobs are just crap right now. Bleh. Really puts a damper on returning. I like BRD but I don't want to play BRD all the time.

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