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Item Levels Follow

#1 Jun 17 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Camate wrote:

During the Test Server update on June 14th, we made it so that item levels are now displayed on items that have been added since Seekers of Adoulin.

I’d like to explain a bit more in detail about how this will work.

What are item levels?
As mentioned previously, as we move forward, player growth will occur through the procurement of equipment, instead of levels. (We are planning to have new merits, but from a level perspective players will not go above level 99.)

As such, there will be differences between the item stats that can be equipped at level 99, so we've arranged the "item level" system to display the strength of each item.
(Item levels for accessories will not be displayed.)

The level of the items you can obtain from content will become higher as the content level increases as this is demonstrated below:
Screenshot


Item level display
Item levels will be displayed on the very bottom of a piece of equipment.
Screenshot

Screenshot


For equipment that can have enchantments or augments applied to it, the item level will be displayed as if the item were at its maximum value.

For example, if you had an item that could be augmented and it displays an item level of 113, augmenting it with the highest value possible would make that piece of equipment each its full potential at item level 113. (This rule is the same for both random augments and for Delve's rank type system.)


Displaying monster strength when "checking" them and the amount of experience points received
The strength of a monster that is displayed when using "check" and also the amount of experience points gained when defeating monsters will vary based on item level, not on your character's level. The fundamental rules will not change.

Based on the combination of the various equipment you are wearing and their item levels, your ultimate level will be tallied, and this is what will be referenced. However, accessory slots, grips, and items equipped in ammo that are classified as accessories will not have item levels and will not be referenced for this level.

The main reasons for switching to this is due to the fact that if we kept it the same as it is currently, regardless of how strong a monster is introduced the message displayed when you "check” would be inaccurate and we are aiming to change this. We are also aiming to make sure the amount of experience points gained from defeating enemies, as well as the pace in which they are obtained, do not become unbalanced.

Adoulin mission difficulty levels
Missions and quests will basically become unlocked through coalition assignments, and we plan on balancing it such that they can be undertaken with a single party, which has the strongest items at the time that can be purchased with Bayld.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=445881#post445881

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 4:00pm by Szabo
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#2 Jun 17 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh man, this is not going to end well. It smells like a s h i t show to me.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 7:02pm by Olorinus
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#3 Jun 17 2013 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can see it now: "HEY BRO, take off your good gear! You're killing the exp!"
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#4 Jun 17 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Erecia wrote:
I can see it now: "HEY BRO, take off your good gear! You're killing the exp!"


In before "I don't use macros cause it kills exp"
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#5 Jun 17 2013 at 8:38 PM Rating: Default
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hmmm You guys act like this is your first game you've played with ilvl before. There's probably some ilvl scaling in the pre-adoulin stuff too. SE is just now allowing us to see ilvl. Like I would imagine a 99 r/m/e to not be level 99 but to really be ilvl 115 or so. Just SE doesn't want to label it.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 10:39pm by TikkaofLakshmi
#6 Jun 17 2013 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Item level isn't a new concept but delivering it this late in the game is asinine. It's not fixing anything, who cares if someone gets exp based on level 99 versus 119 from an item level. Especially in a game that has a large amount of ways to exploit EXP. Examples: Grounds of Valor pages and idling while someone else higher level completes the pages. Abyssea EXP, which is the main way to gain experience currently and is completely unaffected by levels.

All this does is attempt to fix something that's not broken, and in the process makes it harder to complete things. Such as trials and Relic+2 augments, and anything else that relies on experience. The whole point of getting these armor and weapons is to make other things easier. I see no legitimate imbalance, just a cry to do older monotonous trials the harder way versus using new gear and weapons to make them easier.
#7 Jun 17 2013 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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TikkaofLakshmi wrote:
hmmm You guys act like this is your first game you've played with ilvl before. There's probably some ilvl scaling in the pre-adoulin stuff too. SE is just now allowing us to see ilvl. Like I would imagine a 99 r/m/e to not be level 99 but to really be ilvl 115 or so. Just SE doesn't want to label it.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 10:39pm by TikkaofLakshmi


Nope. Uh, no, you need to go back and read what they stated.

Find me a single instance of *ANY* game that uses iLVL on gear where putting on a piece of gear (or a gearset) actually changed the monsters *level*. That's *exactly* what they are describing here.

Please, go ahead. Search.

It's the single most stupid proposed/planned change they have for this game over its history. Level check in FFXI has always (and still is) the end-all-be-all calculation in everything done by you and to you when fighting monsters; the DEF/Attack ratio changes haven't really altered that a single bit despite stating that the changes would.

If it means that monster attack/defense ratios don't alter based on the new check message then that muddies everything worse because now the relative strength of monsters you're used to fighting (Toughs I can do this one, I can kinda sorta do VTs, don't touch ITs without full timers, etc.) is completely out of whack and you're literally flying blind. FFXI doesn't throw on free health like all other MMOs so that the % damage incoming you receive goes down with higher gear, thus you're always going to be taking the same damage incoming and dealing only slightly more outgoing because of how calculations work on level checks.

If it alters the actual monster level then a lot of things are screwed because of EXP calculations, and relic gear just got even more painful to augment for those incredibly useful pieces of macro gear on abilities.

~~~~

I know everyone's always "joked" about it with the development team in FFXI, but it honestly looks like this time they really don't know what the **** they're doing with Seekers of Adoulin.

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 11:54pm by Viertel
#8 Jun 17 2013 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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Surely item levels will only work on monsters in SoA, right?

...right?
#9 Jun 18 2013 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
Viertel wrote:
I know everyone's always "joked" about it with the development team in FFXI, but it honestly looks like this time they really don't know what the **** they're doing with Seekers of Adoulin.

I haven't joked. This expansion is a ******** of epic proportions. Yes, I am still scrambling to do the content because I do want to ensure my character has it, if possible, but that's more because I have almost 10 years sunk into the game, and just tossing my hands up and walking away doesn't feel right... yet.

This expansion has no roadmap. It literally feels like they wake up and just toss out a random idea and run with it irregardless of how idiotic it is.

I am really glad XIV is as good as it is. It sucks that SE is making it, I almost wish another company was... but hopefully when their retardation kills FFXI, they won't kill FFXIV...

... who am I kidding, it will but at least it might mean another 10 years of good gaming is coming my way.
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#10 Jun 18 2013 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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If you stop for one second and think, this wont have any effect whatsoever... if youre lvl 99 which you need to use this gear, you wont need exp anyway. It's basicly just an updated "check" button to show us how hard mobs will be for us instead of everything checking IT+ no matter what for all eternity.
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#11 Jun 18 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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crasyk wrote:
If you stop for one second and think, this wont have any effect whatsoever... if youre lvl 99 which you need to use this gear, you wont need exp anyway. It's basicly just an updated "check" button to show us how hard mobs will be for us instead of everything checking IT+ no matter what for all eternity.


Except that level 99 people do still get exp. merit points, recapping after playing sac, and trials in dynamis all spring to mind as examples. Getting punished for having good gear when, say, getting exp for an item in dynamis is asinine. Getting exp in dynamis is already asinine.i mean as much as I'd love nothing more than to hang out in xarc getting 10 exp per kill and everything.... It's asinine.

I swear the dev team doesn't play their own game.

Edited, Jun 18th 2013 7:28am by Olorinus
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

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#12 Jun 18 2013 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
crasyk wrote:
If you stop for one second and think, this wont have any effect whatsoever... if youre lvl 99 which you need to use this gear, you wont need exp anyway. It's basicly just an updated "check" button to show us how hard mobs will be for us instead of everything checking IT+ no matter what for all eternity.

Wrong
Quote:
The main reasons for switching to this is due to the fact that if we kept it the same as it is currently, regardless of how strong a monster is introduced the message displayed when you "check” would be inaccurate and we are aiming to change this. We are also aiming to make sure the amount of experience points gained from defeating enemies, as well as the pace in which they are obtained, do not become unbalanced.

This means your gear-enhanced check will impact your EXP.

This means holding onto older gear for all eternity because heaven forbid you are trying to do a trial and forget that you're wearing your 130 level body piece, therefore zeroing your exp on your trial mob.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#13 Jun 18 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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I really don't get that they are doing this to avoid having to actually increase our level cap, and yet, the whole reason they're apparently doing this is to "balance" our EXP gain rate, which is something we mostly don't need now if we're at the 99 cap anyway.

It doesn't make any sense. Why can't they be more focused toward addressing things that matter?
#14 Jun 18 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Because, apparently, we will be able to gain capped EXP on ITs more easily and "OMG THAT'S S BROKEN EVEN THOUGH PLAYERS ARE GETTING THOUSANDS OF EXP PER HOUR IN ABYSSEA!!"
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
#15heldemon, Posted: Jun 18 2013 at 9:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) SE already removed level correction on SoA mobs beforehand for this reason as far as I know. Level check always has been the calculation for xp until this update hits but with them not upping the level limit anymore and "increasing our level" by giving us stronger gear instead they decided to do this. Relic trials will suck, hopefully they will exclude that somehow but otherwise I don't get all the complaining. It would be the equivalent of complaining at the 75 cap about not being able to get 500 xp per crab in kuftal tunnel at lvl 75.
#16 Jun 19 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pawkeshup, Averter of the Apocalypse wrote:
This means holding onto older gear for all eternity because heaven forbid you are trying to do a trial and forget that you're wearing your 130 level body piece, therefore zeroing your exp on your trial mob.
Except that SE long ago made ALL MOBS 51 OR HIGHER GIVE EXP EVEN AT LEVEL 99. And AF3+1 or +2 should be plenty for stuff that low.

Unless, of course, the formula results in a number so low that it gets rounded down to zero. I think it's currently like 8xp at 99 without an exp ring. And I seem to recall that the formula should bottom out as low as 107 or so vs 51. That's solo (a party will make it lower), but if you need help to kill level 51 stuff at 99+, you have other problems.

I'm more concerned about it affecting your xp calculation just for killing stuff... or I would except that I'm getting so much XP lately just from ******** around that I'm almost finished with Shijin Spiral, and Abyssea exp should still work only now we can kill faster to reach the 600ish/mob cap sooner.
#17 Jun 20 2013 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
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A big part of it is it is a stupid thing to waste dev resources on. When the **** we ever going to care what a mob checks to us? Either we are solo and so we can mess with it, get messed up and learn - or we are solo and we just sneak past it, or we are in an alliance/party and it doesn't matter (and if it does, we're boned and we will learn that the way we always have, by failing. I mean it might matter if it showed the strength of NMs (that level 15 rabbit currently still checks impossible to guage!) but realy, if SE is so worried about us judging the strength of trash mobs this content is only going to get more tedious,

Other than checking a few mobs when I first got to adoulin (which are prety boring given there doesn't appear to be any variation within mob families in a zone) the only time I've used check in recent memory was to see if something was one of those dumb NMs that drops a useless earring/synth mat, or if it was easy prey or higher for a trial.

Edited, Jun 20th 2013 12:26am by Olorinus
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#18 Jun 20 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Camate wrote:

Greetings!

One of the major questions and concerns we have been seeing thus far in regards to the newly introduced item levels and the changes to how "check" will function is "will Trial of the Magians be affected?"

This is definitely a valid concern and we will be making sure these can still be completed at higher levels. To accomplish this we will be keeping the experience points received for monsters level 99 and below the same and only making adjustments to monsters level 100+.

So basically, everything before Adoulin will still work the way it does currently, and all the monsters for Adoulin and beyond will have this adjustment applied.

Again, having item levels displayed on equipment is just a different way of showing character growth instead of having your character physically level up past level 99

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=446792#post446792
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#19 Jun 20 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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That's nice, but this still makes as much sense as putting in /bell.
#20 Jun 20 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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I am most l likely the minority on this subject but I feel that item level is a necessity. Instead of upping the level cap and letting us grow and get stronger weapons, they kept the cap while giving us items as if we were those higher levels. This also makes killing lower level content mobs easier. As it stands right now on PUP with Rigor and Alternator I can go get massive solo chains for 800-1000 exp solo in Adoulin areas. This is broken as it doesn't scale properly seeing as how I have a level 113 weapon and fighting mobs that are lower than the level of the weapon I am wielding. I understand that people are upset and most of the argument has more to do with Dynamis exp farming as other ways of getting exp aren't really affected (Abyssea/Voidwatch). Unfortunately it's going to be a situation where you can equip higher level item gear and kill faster for lower exp or simulate a level sync by not equipping adoulin gear. Many people may not agree with this, but this is the kind of balance that SE is seeking.

edit: Saw the post that it only applies to Adoulin.

Edited, Jun 20th 2013 12:20pm by ImmortalAlchemist
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#21 Jun 20 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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But why does it matter if you can get lol exp? Especially when no matter how fast you're going, it seems extremely unlikely you are going faster than abyssea. **** even voidwatch is massive exp for the amount of effort. So again, why does it matter what your chains in Adoulin are?

If meriting in Adoulin suddenly becomes attractive, why would that be a problem? I don't get it.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

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#22 Jun 20 2013 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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ImmortalAlchemist wrote:
I am most l likely the minority on this subject but I feel that item level is a necessity. Instead of upping the level cap and letting us grow and get stronger weapons, they kept the cap while giving us items as if we were those higher levels.

This is great in theory, but a potential disaster with the way the playerbase is, especially for those that didn't/couldn't jump into the new content at release. As the gap in gear grows greater, those without will never be able to catch up. With gear replacing levels, it would be like trying to join a merit party when you were only level 60. Why would anybody invite you and slow down their own progression to let you catch up.
#23 Jun 20 2013 at 10:39 PM Rating: Default
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ImmortalAlchemist wrote:
I am most l likely the minority on this subject but I feel that item level is a necessity. Instead of upping the level cap and letting us grow and get stronger weapons, they kept the cap while giving us items as if we were those higher levels. This also makes killing lower level content mobs easier. As it stands right now on PUP with Rigor and Alternator I can go get massive solo chains for 800-1000 exp solo in Adoulin areas. This is broken as it doesn't scale properly seeing as how I have a level 113 weapon and fighting mobs that are lower than the level of the weapon I am wielding. I understand that people are upset and most of the argument has more to do with Dynamis exp farming as other ways of getting exp aren't really affected (Abyssea/Voidwatch). Unfortunately it's going to be a situation where you can equip higher level item gear and kill faster for lower exp or simulate a level sync by not equipping adoulin gear. Many people may not agree with this, but this is the kind of balance that SE is seeking.

edit: Saw the post that it only applies to Adoulin.


So, by the very definition of getting gear upgrades (you know, to get stronger), you get stronger and a monster that was Tough becomes easier to kill. For years this was the entire MO for merit parties and such. You got better geared, **** died quicker, and you could rake in faster EXP. Got better gear? You could clear Nyzul faster and do more floors.

Now though, they're stating that they want to punish you for actively seeking out those upgrades. They made the effort to cause Adoulin monsters to give more experience (and in the case of Umbrils MUCH more) than any other T/VT/IT monsters gave in comparison before so that players would have a reason to kill them. Of course, they're going to undue that work and punish you for actually getting those gear upgrades, filthy MMO player you.

You're OK with being punished? Ooooook....

Because this isn't "balancing". This is the same as stating "OK, for every piece of Salvage II gear you get, the droprates on all plans will be reduced by 50% of its current rate and non will be guarranteed anymore." or "As you get gear upgrades and your item level increases the rate at which you gain plasm or Bayld will be reduced to compensate for your speed of killing."

As far as EXP for everything that's not Relic augments, does it *REALLY* matter how much you can get solo? If you can get 100K by yourself outside in Adoulin does it honestly make a damned difference when you can pull close to 200K (and probably more now) in Abyssea? This is just another example (much like Blizzard and constantly changing class mechanics majorly every single damned expansion) of fixing what isn't broken.

This will ruin my favorite way of getting merit points now: Skirmish runs. I could completely cap out merits in 3-4 runs if we're using at least Rank 3~ statues. That's not going to be possible now. It really is killing off content faster before it's even out; not even Blizzard is that bad.
#24 Jun 20 2013 at 11:03 PM Rating: Default
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xantav wrote:

This is great in theory, but a potential disaster with the way the playerbase is, especially for those that didn't/couldn't jump into the new content at release. As the gap in gear grows greater, those without will never be able to catch up. With gear replacing levels, it would be like trying to join a merit party when you were only level 60. Why would anybody invite you and slow down their own progression to let you catch up.


They said they would make previous content easier over time as new content was released. The bayld gear you can get today is pretty much the floor gear as perle/aurore/teal gear was when Abyssea came out. I'm assuming there'll be a new set of floor gear when the next expansion hits if this pattern continues.
#25 Jun 21 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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xantav wrote:
ImmortalAlchemist wrote:
I am most l likely the minority on this subject but I feel that item level is a necessity. Instead of upping the level cap and letting us grow and get stronger weapons, they kept the cap while giving us items as if we were those higher levels.

This is great in theory, but a potential disaster with the way the playerbase is, especially for those that didn't/couldn't jump into the new content at release. As the gap in gear grows greater, those without will never be able to catch up. With gear replacing levels, it would be like trying to join a merit party when you were only level 60. Why would anybody invite you and slow down their own progression to let you catch up.


If you wanted to join a merit party, but were level 60 (let's pretend abyssea doesn't exist), what's the obvious thing to do? You level your job. Same thing is occuring here. To play "catch up" you need to go through the different content levels. The whole system is tier'd in such a way so that new players to Adoulin couldn't simply just take their pre SoA gear and do high end content out the gate. Granted SE did ***** up with the Delve system by not implementing Rage timers from the start so people could do higher tier content by throwing zombies and time at the Delve NM's without going through the previous tiers first.

When you lay out all the content we have now and in the next update, everything almost fills out nicely

Screenshot



You start at the bottom and work your way up the ladder

Bayld v1 equipment > Skirmish Weapons > Bayld v2 Equipment > Delve Tier 1 > Skirmish v2 weapons/armor > Delve T2 > Delve Bosses

The only drawback is Delve T1/2 people only want players with Delve weapons so it's a bit exclusive but that is another topic regarding whats wrong with delve.

As it stands right now, the 5 Skirmish v2 sets we will get next update will be stronger than the Delve equipment sets in terms of item level while the Skirmish v2 upgrades for weapons will be one level below Delve weapons. So even if you missed the rush to do Delve, there will be other alternatives in terms of gear/weapons.

Edited, Jun 21st 2013 5:12pm by ImmortalAlchemist

Edited, Jun 21st 2013 5:13pm by ImmortalAlchemist
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Seriously, you won't be @#%^ing happy until SE releases a full sized Bahamut avatar you can @#%^ing ride and use to kill players that annoy you, one shot AV/PW/Shinryuu, and burn the FFXI nations to the @#%^ing ground for fun. All while actually restoring mp used instead of costing any.

#26 Jun 22 2013 at 12:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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While that's nice in concept... The issue is that often SE doesn't understand who makes gear "good" so you have the issue of BLM weapons in the new content - they don't follow the progression at all. That is a big part of why I find this whole concept asinine. If I am wearing some level 145 snapshot hands on my blue mage, that doesn't make me level 145. That makes me stupid. Yet there is all sorts of gear at every tier with jobs on it that it would be useless for.

If they want to have gear levels they need to stop being so lazy with this "have three sets, only one or two peices which are any good for a given job" crap, and get serious about designing individual peices of gear which suit 1-3 jobs really well. So those level 145 gloves with BLU mage on them actually make sense for a blu mage to wear. Otherwise, the gear levels mean nothing.
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#27 Jun 22 2013 at 10:21 AM Rating: Default
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
While that's nice in concept... The issue is that often SE doesn't understand who makes gear "good" so you have the issue of BLM weapons in the new content - they don't follow the progression at all. That is a big part of why I find this whole concept asinine. If I am wearing some level 145 snapshot hands on my blue mage, that doesn't make me level 145. That makes me stupid. Yet there is all sorts of gear at every tier with jobs on it that it would be useless for.

If they want to have gear levels they need to stop being so lazy with this "have three sets, only one or two peices which are any good for a given job" crap, and get serious about designing individual peices of gear which suit 1-3 jobs really well. So those level 145 gloves with BLU mage on them actually make sense for a blu mage to wear. Otherwise, the gear levels mean nothing.


So if I'm understanding you correctly, the developer must not introduce "higher level gear" (read: new stuff) that is worse than "lower level gear" (read: old stuff) because players just won't know what to do. I guess in your mind it's okay if the piece doesn't have a "level" on it but if it was simply newer, that would be enough for players to make a choice about what's better for them? By having a "level" stamped on it, players suddenly lose the ability to think for themselves and it will just devolve into chaos.
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#28 Jun 22 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly I see this whole backlash as sort of player-driven gear Stockholm Syndrome. We're so used to new gear being sidegrade trash that, when it's not, we're up in arms about it actually being really powerful and desirable items that people don't think they can live without.

... which is how it works in every other RPG.

But, because FFXI never really embraced it outside of relics, it's confusing and irritating to have to, like, really have serious gear goals instead of "eh I'll get it whenever, it'll make my build 0.5% better"
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#29 Jun 22 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheBarrister wrote:
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
While that's nice in concept... The issue is that often SE doesn't understand who makes gear "good" so you have the issue of BLM weapons in the new content - they don't follow the progression at all. That is a big part of why I find this whole concept asinine. If I am wearing some level 145 snapshot hands on my blue mage, that doesn't make me level 145. That makes me stupid. Yet there is all sorts of gear at every tier with jobs on it that it would be useless for.

If they want to have gear levels they need to stop being so lazy with this "have three sets, only one or two peices which are any good for a given job" crap, and get serious about designing individual peices of gear which suit 1-3 jobs really well. So those level 145 gloves with BLU mage on them actually make sense for a blu mage to wear. Otherwise, the gear levels mean nothing.


So if I'm understanding you correctly, the developer must not introduce "higher level gear" (read: new stuff) that is worse than "lower level gear" (read: old stuff) because players just won't know what to do. I guess in your mind it's okay if the piece doesn't have a "level" on it but if it was simply newer, that would be enough for players to make a choice about what's better for them? By having a "level" stamped on it, players suddenly lose the ability to think for themselves and it will just devolve into chaos.

Or he's saying that if there's a good ilvl 110 BLU item now and SE release an ilvl 135 BLU item in the same slot, there should be no debate about the latter being superior. Additionally, SE needs to better refine their job distribution so you don't get things like WHM/BLM/RDM/SCH/GEO/SMN/BRD all on the same piece, but it's only useful to BRD or completely useless to SMN. SE also needs to strive to veer away from the super situational **** like a BLU gear you'd only use with SA, solely for CW, or whatever niche stuff that's needed to make a certain something work when that certain something should arguably be more predominant within the job if it helps establish its identity.

Why people want to recreate the days of the Peacock Charm being the superior neck piece dozens of levels later, just in other slots, is beyond me. Well, not entirely, in part I see it as laziness about chasing new gear and seeing perceived investments lose value. But at the very basic level, killing harder **** to get better loot should be the MO, not killing stuff that was harder 3 patches ago to get stuff better than what drops from the hardest content now. That can kill content on arrival, or at least skew interest so terribly that you might have situations like U/O all over again where everyone wants Homam, but nobody ever wants to farm for Nashira parts because it means time not getting Homam because Homam is infinitely superior in function and job distribution.

Which basically goes back to the point that if SE wants ilvl to mean more, gear swapping needs to become less important. Horror of horrors, dumbing down^ the game~

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#30 Jun 23 2013 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Additionally, SE needs to better refine their job distribution so you don't get things like WHM/BLM/RDM/SCH/GEO/SMN/BRD all on the same piece, but it's only useful to BRD or completely useless to SMN.
What I really love is those ammo slot items that have PUP on the job list. If you equip them you can say bye-bye to your Alternator, because it only allows you to put oils in the ammo slot. But thanks anyhow for remembering that PUP even exists, SE.

Quote:
Why people want to recreate the days of the Peacock Charm being the superior neck piece dozens of levels later, just in other slots, is beyond me.
The sad part is that now it's as relevant as ever because of needing accuracy for that ever-widening level gap.
#31 Jun 23 2013 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Why people want to recreate the days of the Peacock Charm being the superior neck piece dozens of levels later, just in other slots, is beyond me.


The whole thing is effed up if you ask me. SE is incapable of making subtle, but useful changes that aren't opposite extremes. As a result, it's a lose-lose situation. Either have various items and have people complaining about storage and swapping or have one must have item that is either too difficult/tiresome to get with a lack of alternatives.
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#32 Jun 23 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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The biggest problem with SoA is that no one would want to do the lower tier content. Imagine you could level lv1 Mnk on your lv99 Whm. Then you wouldn't go through all the lower level areas and just park yourself in a merit party/alliance and get lv99 on mnk in no time. People notice that it is far easier to level a mage job (brd, cor or whm) then leech from higher level parties for item upgrades on jobs that they care about but aren't effective.

A lot of FFXI content aren't solo or duo-able until you have at least pass that content difficulty. For example, you can't really lowman much of the AF3+1 seals unless your party already have equipments equal or better than AF3+1. The same would applies to atma and such. If you are soloing then it's much much more difficult unless you have bst or other solo jobs. Combine with the difficulty of finding people to join you for these content and pretty much you are stuck shouting for hours.

What SE needs to do, if they are trying to make content levels, is to allow lv100 content equipments to be solo-able or at least duo-able by lv90-99 equipped players. Then lv101 content would be similar to lv100 equipped players...etc. Lv105 content would require 6 players of lv99 equipments and lv110 would require 18 of lv99 equipped players. On the other hand, lv105 content should be duo or trio-able with lv104 equipments players. Lv110 would be trio-able with lv109 equipped players and so on.

What SE currently has is lv110 content would require a 6/6 party of lv110+ equipped players to clear. This creates the problem of people already have lv110+ gear not wanting to do lv110 content. It is difficult to find enough good lv99 equipped players to effectively clear lv110 content. The beads drop from KI NM would certainly help but that didn't seem to be working as well as it should.
#33 Jun 23 2013 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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TheBarrister wrote:

So if I'm understanding you correctly, the developer must not introduce "higher level gear" (read: new stuff) that is worse than "lower level gear" (read: old stuff) because players just won't know what to do. I guess in your mind it's okay if the piece doesn't have a "level" on it but if it was simply newer, that would be enough for players to make a choice about what's better for them? By having a "level" stamped on it, players suddenly lose the ability to think for themselves and it will just devolve into chaos.


I think if they are going to go through the bother of putting a gear level system in, the numbers should help less informed players, not hinder them. I have no problem with some older gear being better than some newer gear... I just think there isn't any point to a "item level" system that doesn't actually reflect the usefulness of the item. If all it does is tell you which even it came from, it's pointless.

I'd also like SE make more gear that is actually good for specific jobs. Jobs like brd, blu, smn with unique magic skills, for example, end up with way fewer "useful choices" in terms of gear overall vs jobs that benefit more from more generic skills shared by a bunch of jobs (cure potency, enfeebling skill, elemental magic skill, etc) how many gear choices are there with enfeebling or healing magic vs blue mage skill? And the other thing is both kinds of jobs lose out when brd or smn skills are put on gear (reducing slots for useful skills)

I mean brd alone could use more gear with singing, wind and string all on them... But instead we jump for joy when even one peice in a new gear set has one decent brd specific stat on it.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2013 5:37pm by Olorinus
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#34 Jun 24 2013 at 5:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
I mean brd alone could use more gear with singing, wind and string all on them... But instead we jump for joy when even one peice in a new gear set has one decent brd specific stat on it.


Every piece of nice gear I've gotten for non-BRD jobs has been because I was dragged kicking and screaming to an event on BRD when said event didn't really drop any BRD stuff. NNI and Delve are the two big culprits here. Sure my THF is now sporting a **** Thaumas coat, but that's only because the Nares body piece is utterly useless to my bard!
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#35 Jun 24 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't believe delve. Some boots which are a sidegrade from af2+2 (they get better with a bunch of airlixers but really... They aren't that fantastic) cure potency hands for my cure set annd.... Is there somethng else? The dagger doesn't even have brd on it.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 7:03am by Olorinus
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#36 Jun 24 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
I can't believe delve. Some boots which are a sidegrade from af2+2 (they get better with a bunch of airlixers but really... They aren't that fantastic) cure potency hands for my cure set annd.... Is there somethng else? The dagger doesn't even have brd on it.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 7:03am by Olorinus


Taken up along the magic accuracy path, they end up being the best Magic Accuracy boots in the game currency, and given Delve NMs (most notably the Naakuals), you want all the Magic Accuracy you can get for some of the jobs you're taking.
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#37 Jun 24 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Oh I know, believe me, I am working on the magic accuracy path. It's just not that big a deal compared to say, being a SAM and getting a Delve GKT in terms of "game changing"

That magic accuracy is nice, yes for sure, you won't get any argument from me, but am I going to be able to go back and lolstomp old content with it? No. It just seems really underwhelming compared to what other jobs are getting. **** it doesn't even come with a CHR boost.

Basically I don't really feel my BRD getting stronger as I do delve, which is too bad. If I had a DD I would be feeling like every delve party got me closer to being better - whereas on BRD I feel like every delve party is only to work towards a different job... and now I need to go do something else to get that sense of growth on the job people want me on all the time... but I only have a small playtime so... ugh

I do delve cause I know I'll want the points elsewhere.


Edited, Jun 24th 2013 8:50am by Olorinus
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#38 Jun 24 2013 at 6:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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All the BRD love came from Salvage II. Also, 7 macc on those feet is probably not worth 600 RP.
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#39 Jun 25 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Thanks so much for all the feedback about item levels and content levels.

I've been answering questions on this topic and have discussed this in the past, but I'd like to take this opportunity to talk more about it.

Content Levels
For Adoulin, we've set a basic repeating play cycle which entails procuring stronger equipment to challenge harder content, which will yield even stronger equipment.

In order to indicate difficulty for Adoulin content in a way that is displayed in an objective fashion, we have established content levels.

The below is a chart representation of this:
Screenshot


Why not increase the level cap?
To be extremely frank, increasing the level cap was never an option.

So then what were our options?

Below are the two plans:

1. Expand equipment variation laterally
This would be preserving the original style of the game up until now.
Keeping relics, mythics, and empyreans at the top, add gear that can be used depending on the situation without creating higher tiers of equipment. No changes to the level 99 cap.

2. Boost equipment variation vertically
This is the current plan.
Add equipment that surpasses relics, mythics, and empyrean. Player level cap of 99 remains unchanged, but growth takes place via equipment.


I believe that there were quite a few who recall that there was a lot of feedback in the past about content difficulty and item stats not matching up, and a lot of equipment having similar stats.

We had come to see the limits of continuing to expand equipment variation laterally, and due to the fact that it wouldn't be possible to change monster strength without character growth as well as the fact that it would be difficult to make a variety of exciting content, the result would turn into only expanding areas, which we did not think was desirable.

As a result based on thorough discussions, while considering the current state of the game as well as the future, we decided to boost the variation of equipment vertically.

There were also a number of other reasons why increasing the level cap was not added as an option.

As I am sure you are all aware, increasing the level cap would cause a number of balance related issues to arise, such as whether the support jobs would remain at 49 or if they could be allowed to go higher, limitations on job abilities and job traits, and also how high the staged increases of job traits would go.

Also, the current UI system used in FINAL FANTASY XI was not created for levels to go above 99, so in order to display parameters for levels over 99 it would be necessary to completely reconstruct portions of the UI.

Items Levels I
With a growth system that takes place via equipment, there is one large aspect that differs from what we have seen in the game up until now.

The aspect is moving from two growth patterns: parameters that grow by leveling and parameters that grow from equipment, to just one: parameters that grow from equipment. As a result, equipment stats have come to look much larger; however, the fundamental thought process up until now will not be changed.

Just like up until now where you would gain experience points by defeating strong monsters that you were able to challenge, level up, and continue to grow by procuring strong equipment, in Adoulin as well you'll be challenging strong monsters and content, and progressing growth by gathering powerful equipment.

Put simply, due to the below reasons we've made it so the strength of equipment does not rely on the level you can equip them, but instead relies on the content level you can obtain them.

• No growth from levels
• No indicator of equipment strength via the level they can be equipped


Items Levels II
I'd like to go into more detail about the strength of equipment does not relying on the level you can equip them, but instead relying on the content level you can obtain them.

The strength of monsters that appear in Adoulin content will be decided on the content level. (Since we will be building a solid hierarchy between content, we’re making it so just 1 level difference in content level will be extremely noticeable.)

We've also calculated the necessary parameters you will need to combat these monsters and decided the stats for Adoulin equipment, which is why we've established item levels to make them references for equipment strength.

The meaning behind content levels and items levels
Basically, we would like you to use content levels and items levels as a reference when challenging content.

Though it's a reference, we understand there are aspects that can be covered by certain strategies and ways of playing as well as equipment that is used/collected for their special stats and properties, so this is NOT something that is saying "you definitely cannot do this content without this item level."

We'd just like this to act as a gauge where you can consider what kind of equipment you should gather and what kind of content you can go do.

Amongst the equipment available before Adoulin, there were items that exceeded item level 100, and while there are aspects that make it difficult to determine, it will become easier to understand as more and more items with item levels are introduced.

In regards to equipment that have augments added to them, we had originally wanted to have individual item levels depending on the specific value of the augments, but with the current system it was determined that it would be difficult, and we will be making it so the item level displayed is for the highest augment value possible. We apologize for this and appreciate your understanding.

Also, similar to how we would like you to use content levels and items levels as reference, it also makes it possible for the person implementing equipment and content to grasp the strength of equipment stats and monster strength more objectively.

In the event that the person implementing these things were to change, it’s extremely important for them to prepare the proper content and item stats following the content level difficulty and stat curve.

As an example, as a response to feedback that mentioned content difficulty and item stats did not match, it will now become possible to accurately assess this, and it will also be possible to judge more accurately what kind of content is being implemented for a certain level, whether more variations are necessary, and what content's difficulty needs adjusting.

Wrap-up

Until now I have been talking about the concept and purpose for content levels and item levels.

I'm aware that the negative feedback in regards to content levels and item levels is largely split into two categories.

1. The concept of content levels does not work properly
This is something that I discussed in a post I made last month.

Akihiko Matsui wrote:

With the release of the end of April version update, we've implemented Delve and have completed the battle content that was planned for the launch of Seekers of Adoulin.

I feel that the flow of content that we planned where players would take on higher tiers of content (content level) by progressing in stages is not going as smoothly as we'd like.

Specifically, I would like to adjust the fact that it's difficult to do colonization reives and lair reives in small numbers, as well as the fact that it is difficult to start Skirmish.

For the time being, Delve (the boss battle) has been set as the highest content level.

With this current state, I feel priorities should be placed on implementing and adjusting content for low-man or soloing more than adding further higher tier content, and I would like to work hard while heading in this direction so that a larger amount of players can enjoy the game.


After this I also made a post about Reive adjustments, but besides only reives we will continue to make adjustments as needed to coalition assignments and other existing content. (I will make a separate post to explain about this.)

2. It's not possible to play with a small amount of people
I understand the need for the option of being able to play with a small amount of people as well as the need for ways to obtain new equipment with a small amount of people, and we are putting a very high priority to implement and adjust content so that it be done with a small group of players or solo over time.

In the upcoming version update we will be adding support for low-manning reives and adding new equipment that can be exchanged for Bayld, as well as other ways to address this, but I would like to apologize for not being able to have these ready yet.

We've also seen feedback posted which mentions that top players are clearing the high level content and seeing players obtain brand-new gear is upsetting because it's not possible to play all the time and it won't be possible to obtain that equipment.

We will not be making adjustments so that equipment can be obtained at the same time and pace as the top players, but we will be adding elements where you can obtain equipment close to it by spending a bit of time, and also once some time passes we will be adjusting the content difficulty, making it easier to clear. We would like to make an environment where it's possible to play with a variety of styles.


Sorry for the lengthy post, but I hope this serves to explain about the thought process behind content levels and items levels, as well as answer the questions that have been brought up.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=448309#post448309

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 9:30pm by Szabo
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#40 Jun 27 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello, Matsui here.

Thank you for all of the replies.

I'm not quite sure if I will be able to explain this properly by writing it, but I would like to make a follow-up post to my previous comment.

Many of you that continue to play and enjoy FINAL FANTASY XI have at some point in time cast off your shyness and became players who made a breakthrough by forming parties and participating in pick-up groups.
 
At the current point in time, Delve is the highest level content (from both a difficulty and reward standpoint, as well as a cost perspective), but whether we should make this content something that needs an alliance is definitely something that has been discussed within the team. 

Players feel like the threshold for entry is set quite high when taking into consideration the current trend of how people play now. However, since there were suggestions to make content similar to Dynamis, we ultimately decided to proceed by making alliance-based content.

Of course, with recent MMOs, it's possible to reach high levels while playing solo and players aren't spending a lot of time making parties because of the ability to auto-group up for large battles. While it definitely makes it easy to play, we are lacking too many things to be able to reach that point.

We have two goals in mind:
Create content that will excite players enough to join up with others again.
Create content that lets you discover the fun aspects because others are with you.
From the beginning, and with these goals in mind, the staff strove to make Delve into this type of content.

With that said, in regards to Delve, there is no need for all players to be able to clear it at the same exact time. Once the top players have played through it, the staff would like to make it so a larger number of players are able to complete it as well. 
 
On the other hand, we feel it's necessary to increase the amount of content for solo and low-man groups immediately, as well as supplement them with equipment that is not exactly on par with Delve but is of a significant content level.

The gap between players that have been playing this content and those who are trying to catch up is increasingly widening.

With that said, instead of rushing to add on to Delve, our highest priority is to spend that time to create other variations of content to supplement the content (item) levels (similar to how there was a variety of content at level 75 and 99 in the past). Also, we feel the need to first create content to revamp (enhance) relics, mythics, empryeans, and job-specific armor.

While I'm repeating myself, we would like to fill in the gaps that have been created by adding content where you can achieve your goals by putting your time in, and adding content choices so you can progress with the play style that suits you (for example, skipping content that you're not interested in).

While it's important to proceed with the original plans, I feel it's also extremely important to prioritize implementation based on the feedback of those that are playing right now, so please let us know what content you would like to play solo or low-man and other feedback as well. 

We really look forward to reading your sincere opinions.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=449086#post449086
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#41 Jul 05 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Hello, Matsui here.

Apologizes that it took so long to post. I'd like to expand a bit on the explanation as to why increasing the level cap was not a choice for the direction we are taking. I apologize ahead of time for the complexity and the jargon that is used.

A problem of programming consensus

As a development consensus, it was decided that the UI display would not exceed level 99 and as such an extremely large amount of aspects were created based on the idea that the level cap would not exceed 99.

I'll go ahead and mention this for the sake of the developers, but normally things are structured with as much margin as possible so that aspects can be addressed by just changing definitions and compiling.

However, if there is too large a margin for save data, packets, and other multiplicative elements, then performance will be affected, so there are a lot of areas that have been setup on a bit by bit scale. Also, in statements for content and events in FFXI, a lot of them have been written on the basis that the maximum level is 99.

The problem of man-hours required to change this

If we were to simply increase the level cap to go beyond 99, we would first have to start by investigating exactly how many areas would experience the above issues. As I stated previously, it's not only the program, but there are also level statements in the scripts for content and events. The time needed to check all of these, re-write them, and then test each one could not be secured before the deadline for Adoulin, and as such we were unable to select a level cap increase as an option.


Due to the above reasons we were unable to adopt a plan to increase the level cap.

However, in order for FFXI to continue to operate, I feel that in addition to growth via items, a new growth system is necessary.

While it will take some time considering everything we have in the game thus far, we've allocated the necessary people and time and have begun calculating and testing where possible. With that said, I apologize for not being able to get responses out right away.


Akihiko Matsui wrote:

One more thing.

As many of you have mentioned in your posts, I too believe that level design-wise, starting with the implementation of craftable items and quest rewards, then moving on to party-based battles, and then ultimately high-level, alliance-based battles is both normal and correct.

However, many FFXI players have already completely played through all the high-level content for level 99, and we felt that quick implementation of new, high-level content was desired. Due to this, in order to break the feeling of stagnation, we prioritized the implementation of reives, Skirmish, and Delve, which make up the vertical backbone of content.

Speaking in regards to Delve, while we have received feedback that it's really fun, we understand that a lot of players have given up on challenging this content.

Both the staff and I have no plans to see these conditions continue.

The development team is currently in the midst of discussing the priority order of the items to be implemented after the August version update, but unfortunately since final adjustments are being made to the content for the July version update we were unable to finalize this yet.

Below is an example of the things we have been discussing:

Addition of battle content that can be undertaken by low-man parties or solo (+NPC)
The idea is something like an Adoulin version of Meeble Burrows.
Expansion of synthesis and other non-battle content
Continued adjustments to reives
Addition of solo-content that focuses on exploration instead of battle
Adjustments so that players’ efforts are more naturally tied to colonization
Revamps and enhancements to equipment
RMEC weapons, job specific equipment, etc.


To start off, we'll be placing a heavy emphasis on increasing the amount of content variety, supplementing the gaps in content, and making it possible to increase your item level solo or low-man, and we are proceeding to prepare for the implementation of a lot of this.

As we are in midst of working on the July version update as well as the August version update, I'll need a bit more time before I can tell you new information, but I’ll be doing my best to deliver it to you as it becomes available.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=451933#post451933
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I'm surprised at the directness. /golfclap
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#43 Jul 05 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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Speaking in regards to Delve, while we have received feedback that it's really fun, we understand that a lot of players have given up on challenging this content.


I gave up on this without trying :S
The hype put me off.
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#44 Jul 05 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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While the ideas are sound, the implementation is off. If they plan to keep Delve as the top content, then they should have released it last. The way this is explained, the new Reives, Skirmish, and Wildskeepers are going to be more obsolete-upon-arrival content. He even stated that the new lowman stuff isn't going to be as good as the stuff from Delve, so outside of dual-wielders maybe getting an offhand weapon, I don't see how they expect it to be appealing.

Granted, there are some people that never bothered to do Delve, and they may benefit from this, but the majority of people I see nowadays are running around with plasm weapons, and according to the chart the only content that's going to provide any type of growth from that is the new WK Reives, which is only two fights.

We'll see I guess, maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Edited, Jul 5th 2013 3:26pm by KodoReturns
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#45 Jul 05 2013 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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This is a very interesting idea. It is a shame it was poorly implemented. It runs very parallel to the age old level up kill stronger stuff. Why wouldn't they have scaled content releases better to start with. It also completely justifies making obsolete old items.

What I will say is if this system uses any random number generator drops that isn't evil it's criminal. Also if they are willing to embrace this system, should there not be a set for each job? If they have to use the same model is one thing. As you level you get job traits and abilities unique to your class. Why would a whm want -5% to song casting. Whm doesn't even have song casting. (just an example).
#46 Jul 05 2013 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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The way to ensure folks did some of the "obsolete" content was to have it be done synergistically, like the stuff in ToAU was done. You can do NNI or Salvage, but you cannot do both because both are dependent on you spending tags - either for points or on the mission itself. So people are still doing Assaults even though they don't need anything from the individual assaults.

Delve weapon upgrades should have had other requirements, such as completing a certain number of reives, or skirmishes, for each stage, either of in addition to or instead of the dumb airlixer requirements. (Or even better, do it like the Nyzul weapons, where the further along you are in floors, the easier it is to upgrade a weapon. Did 100 reives? Congrats, you've just lopped off half of the required points for the highest level of mezzotinting.)



Edited, Jul 5th 2013 5:53pm by Catwho
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and leader of Grammarian Tea House chat LS
#47 Jul 05 2013 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
The way to ensure folks did some of the "obsolete" content was to have it be done synergistically, like the stuff in ToAU was done. You can do NNI or Salvage, but you cannot do both because both are dependent on you spending tags - either for points or on the mission itself. So people are still doing Assaults even though they don't need anything from the individual assaults.

Delve weapon upgrades should have had other requirements, such as completing a certain number of reives, or skirmishes, for each stage, either of in addition to or instead of the dumb airlixer requirements. (Or even better, do it like the Nyzul weapons, where the further along you are in floors, the easier it is to upgrade a weapon. Did 100 reives? Congrats, you've just lopped off half of the required points for the highest level of mezzotinting.)



Edited, Jul 5th 2013 5:53pm by Catwho



I couldn't agree more... the minute they made delve a spammable "do this and never look back" event it pretty much relegated all previous adoulin content to "previous expansion: now irrelevant" status.
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#48 Jul 05 2013 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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This frickin team. I love them so much, but have so little interest in FFXI. Can't we just, like, give these guys a new game for them to do RIGHT from the ground up? It sure sounds like they could do it.
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#49 Jul 06 2013 at 1:32 AM Rating: Decent
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All I can read from that is.

"Yeah we know we @#%^ed up with Delve, it is killing the game."

"Still, nothing you can do about it. You all need to create more shout groups for content which you really cannot achieve the highest level by doing such. Enjoy."

"Please please please do other content than Delve if you can miraculously find the people for it, we don't want our time and effort wasted over here."


Truth is, they @#%^ed up massively with this expansion.
Why on earth Delve was not released either in increments or later on in the expansion's life is beyond me. Absolutely stupid decision which, as I predicted, is already having adverse effects on the player base: Both in size and mindset.

Oh, their wish that players should form more alliances to tackle the higher end Delve content completely fails to take into account that the Japanese player base is CONSIDERABLY larger than the American and especially European player bases. I almost NEVER see shout groups for Delve content or any content in general in European time frames.

Edited, Jul 6th 2013 3:35am by Tatham
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Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Invictus -- William Ernest Henley
#50 Jul 06 2013 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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Honestly though there are tons of people who still don't have the Tier IV~V boss gear. I'm often helping PUG shouts to get KI wins and the players are see are absolutely horrible. Most I wouldn't take into a T6 voidwatch run, much less for something like a Delve farming or boss run. So there is a huge section of the population that's not represented on these forums, most of that new content is just filler to keep them paying. And considering they represent the majority of the player base, that's money keeping the servers running so we can enjoy the higher end content.
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#51 Jul 06 2013 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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KodoReturns wrote:
While the ideas are sound, the implementation is off. If they plan to keep Delve as the top content, then they should have released it last. The way this is explained, the new Reives, Skirmish, and Wildskeepers are going to be more obsolete-upon-arrival content. He even stated that the new lowman stuff isn't going to be as good as the stuff from Delve, so outside of dual-wielders maybe getting an offhand weapon, I don't see how they expect it to be appealing.

Granted, there are some people that never bothered to do Delve, and they may benefit from this, but the majority of people I see nowadays are running around with plasm weapons, and according to the chart the only content that's going to provide any type of growth from that is the new WK Reives, which is only two fights.

We'll see I guess, maybe I'm just being pessimistic.


Skirmish II will also have 5? armor sets that are better then delve plasm armor by a couple levels. Off-hands for 1H jobs and the lance for drg will also be things to go after.
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