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So I'm a newb, and I'm curious about gear swapping... (was fFollow

#1 Jun 15 2013 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
I see a lot of people doing it on youtube videos. What's the consensus on its use? Is there any benefit to it? Is it necessary?

Personally, I don't want to get in the habit of ever doing it at later levels because it seems like it would be experience-breaking to me.

Edited, Jun 15th 2013 8:57pm by Matsuu
#2 Jun 15 2013 at 9:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gear swapping is pretty much necessary to remain optimal under most situations.

A DD is excepted to have a tp set usually capping gear haste which is 26%, a -pdt (physical damage taken) set of -50% that allows you to take less damage from mobs melee attacks and physical weapon skills, a -mdt (magical damage taken) set of -24 since whm's merited shellra gives around -26 mdt, mdt lessens the amount of damage you recieve from spells, weapon skills that are consider to magical and attacks. -damage taken itself counts for both pdt and mdt. Also, dd's are excepted to have weaponskill sets that maximizes the damage potential. An idle set of regen, -pdt, and a piece of movement speed boost is ideal.
An evasion set is also handy for most dd jobs aswell.

A mage is expected to have a fast cast set that reduces the amount of time you spend casting, an idle set consisting of refresh, -pdt and a piece of movement speed. -pdt and -mdt sets as well, cure potency sets for most mages except blm.

Lower levels seem to be a waste of time because there's not much gear that boosts the recommended stats until 75 and above.
Having to press several macros may seem tedious and inventory may seem to be cumbersome to have many pieces of gear for a single job, but for what its worth is up to you before the whole casual vs elitist debate rears in.
#3 Jun 16 2013 at 4:29 AM Rating: Good
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You could start gear swapping as soon as you get some af pieces that enhance job abilities. Edit them into your job ability macro, and then, if the job ability doesn't require you to keep the piece on to receive the benefits, swap back out to whatever with another macro.
#4 Jun 17 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
And this, by the by, is why even if you level all 22 jobs to 99, most people only really expect you to have 2-3 "main" jobs that you have all the gear sets for. We don't have the room for 4-5 gear sets for all 22 jobs!
#5 Jun 17 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
And this, by the by, is why even if you level all 22 jobs to 99, most people only really expect you to have 2-3 "main" jobs that you have all the gear sets for. We don't have the room for 4-5 gear sets for all 22 jobs!


FFXI could *really* use that armory chest inventory system FFXIV uses.
#6 Jun 17 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Matsuu wrote:
I see a lot of people doing it on youtube videos. What's the consensus on its use? Is there any benefit to it? Is it necessary?

Personally, I don't want to get in the habit of ever doing it at later levels because it seems like it would be experience-breaking to me.

Edited, Jun 15th 2013 8:57pm by Matsuu

To answer this question in the spirit in which it was asked:

Gear swapping has become an essential part of FFXI. I'm sure at the game's inception, the notion that it was possible to macro in gear during battle wasn't even an issue. But nowadays the developers specifically give us gear that we would want to only swap in for certain abilities or scenarios. In my opinion, in-battle gear swapping is what has kept FFXI alive, especially during the long period when level 75 was the end of the game. With no further character advancement in terms of levels or abilities, capped players had nothing to strive for except better gear. And when 'best' gear was acquired, there was nothing left to do but track down specialty gear for gear swaps. Its what has driven the game for the better part of a decade now.

Edit: ding 13k!

Edited, Jun 17th 2013 10:18am by AshOnMyTomatoes
#7 Jun 23 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Matsuu wrote:
I see a lot of people doing it on youtube videos. What's the consensus on its use? Is there any benefit to it? Is it necessary?

Personally, I don't want to get in the habit of ever doing it at later levels because it seems like it would be experience-breaking to me.

Edited, Jun 15th 2013 8:57pm by Matsuu


You cannot play any job in this game properly without gearswapping constantly in battle. It is absolutely essential.

DD's are expected to have sets for TP, WS, -PDT, -MDT as a minimum. Then you get into specialty sets for JA's, Watlzes, RACC....really any number of things.

Mages and support are expected to have a large amount of gearsets too.
#8 Jun 23 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Matsuu wrote:
Personally, I don't want to get in the habit of ever doing it at later levels because it seems like it would be experience-breaking to me.


It is experience-breaking. It really is. You can swap so much (justifiable swaps, mind you, not just hitting buttons for the sake of it) that your character is literally invisible for entire fights, which is ridiculous.

I know there are plugins that lock your appearance specifically to avoid this sort of thing, but we're not supposed to really talk much about that.
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#9 Jun 23 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
You can talk about plugins and the like, but you just can't link to them, advertise them, or (in the situation of things like spellcast), actively post scripts for everything. Just mentioning BlinkMeNot is alright.
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#10 Jun 23 2013 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:


DD's are expected to have sets for TP, WS, -PDT, -MDT as a minimum. Then you get into specialty sets for JA's, Watlzes, RACC....really any number of things.

Mages and support are expected to have a large amount of gearsets too.


I'm skeptical about the claim that DD's are expected to have a -pdt or -mdt set as a MINIMUM.
Most certainly gear for TP and WS sets as a minimum. -PDT and -MDT (or a combo -DT) set's a luxury, but a welcome one.
#11 Jun 23 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Good
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I'm skeptical about the claim that DD's are expected to have a -pdt or -mdt set as a MINIMUM.
Most certainly gear for TP and WS sets as a minimum. -PDT and -MDT (or a combo -DT) set's a luxury, but a welcome one.


I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a few staple -PDT pieces at minimum. Twilight torque is one example of a very common drop that by now most people should have access to, and you can add augmented dark rings to the list of reasonable items for people to shoot for as well (they needn't be maxed out augs when even a pair of -3% PDT rings is 6%,which is quite effective for an accessory slot. Max em out at -6% each for double the -pDT). Most players expect DD to have at least a hybrid -dt set in the same way they expect thief to have an evasion set and mages to have a hMP set. While there are a lot of players on said jobs who DON'T have those sets, they stick out like a sore thumb and people do notice them. Of course it's easy to tell when the black mages are resting mp in full nuking gear just by looking at them, whereas it's a lot harder to eyeball the melee who doesn't have any form of -dt on during a hectic fight. But the stats do help and if you look hard enough you can tell when players aren't packing any form of -dt because they tend to consistently be the first ones to splat on the floor when things get hairy...... and yes, if it happens often enough you notice that as well.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 12:46am by Melphina
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#12 Jun 24 2013 at 12:38 AM Rating: Default
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Problem I have with that is well, why are you taking hate to die in the first place?
On most events now where everyone is participating the DD's should be destroying the mob very quickly that "taking damage" should a minor sidenote. The mages should be curing you anyway.

There is the argument that your taking up the mages time curing you but unless you have a HUGE -pdt set, they'll be curing you anyway when you take dmg.

On mobs that come close to one shotting you, well those moves are usually sudden moves and there's little chance of you switching to a -dt set the second it activates especially in hectic fights. In which case you'd have to be full timing a -dt set which obviously as a DD ruins your dps since you can't be in your TP set armour or accessories that boost your ability to effectively deal dmg or hit with good accuracy.

I have the twilight torque, I have the dark rings and a couple of other minor armour pieces but switching back and forth in a quick fight seems meaningless and detrimental to my fighting ability and keeping on a -dt set in case I get one shotted (Kaggen as an example) also ruins my dps.

But hey my opinion, if you have a argument that rips apart mine, go ahead, I'm one of those who'll easily accept I'm wrong if the counter argument is bloody good.

I'm still trying for other -dt pieces myself, though more for solo escapades than pt necessity, all the pt wants is a dead mob.

#13 Jun 24 2013 at 2:16 AM Rating: Excellent
With Delve related mobs, NMs or otherwise, their normal attacks can potentially do significant damage without some sort of -PDT/DT equipped. For example, normal mobs in Morimar Delve can easily deal 700+ dmg per normal melee hit whenever the special message for the zone pops up. The Notorious Monsters in there can deal that much normally even without the message, and can one-shot players with TP moves when the message pops up if they're not wearing PDT gear.

Likewise, a lot of mobs in there, NMs or otherwise, deal AoE damage with their attacks/TP moves, so it's not just you that's taking damage, but everyone in range as well, so that's all the more HP that needs to be cured.

Now you shouldn't be sitting in the gear constantly, but nowadays, good players (DD or otherwise), should have some sort of -DT set available to them for those situations when taking damage is unavoidable.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 4:25am by Vlorsutes
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#14 Jun 24 2013 at 2:49 AM Rating: Good
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Which brings up the question for me. How do you know when to switch? As some of those moves just get pulled off to quickly, the mobs don't do aoe all the time. I think... Can't remember.

Though to be more clear about my stance about the whole thing. My main argument with -dt sets is that I don't see it as a minimum requirement in that it would never prevent you from getting invited into 99% of the content if you told someone you didn't have it, where as if you told someone that you don't use tp sets they'd look at you funny and probably blacklist you forever.

-dt sets though in general is still a great idea and worth pursuing, just in the order of TP>WS>-pdt>-mdt and not "hugely" game changing. Though as you mentioned, delve do have mobs that snap ppl in half and everyone does that now to the exclusion of everything else unfortunately :(
#15 Jun 24 2013 at 5:19 AM Rating: Good
I'd say that the - PDT sets are more relevant on the jobs expected to pull, e.g. THF, BRD, and COR. I'm having to rebuild my BRD -PDT set since I've died a few times trying to make really long pulls in Delve.

The best term I've heard it described as is an "oh ****" button, a macro that swaps in your -PDT set without any other JAs or stuff included. If you drop into yellow (or orange or red) health, go ahead and hit it.

It doesn't have to be a full set, but just a few pieces can make the difference between life and death. The min-maxers always have a -PDT set because dead people don't contribute to the parse. Smiley: lol
#16 Jun 24 2013 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
I'd say that the - PDT sets are more relevant on the jobs expected to pull, e.g. THF, BRD, and COR. I'm having to rebuild my BRD -PDT set since I've died a few times trying to make really long pulls in Delve.


Frigging bugards, amirite? I can actually usually aggro pull with mazurka (not gettng hit) most things, but those bastards...


also it makes me feel better I am not the only one that dies sometimes with those dumb pulls.
#17 Jun 24 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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GLGunblade wrote:
Which brings up the question for me. How do you know when to switch?

You don't switch, that's the point of a hybrid build. It's not full DT, nor is it full TP. It's a hybrid of DT/PDT and Haste/Acc so that you basically only swap out of it for weaponskills and such. You do it this way for exactly the reason you stated, sometimes moves are too fast for you to swap into DT gear before they go off, you need to be in DT gear already. If you're savvy, you can sometimes swap to a full TP build when you lose hate, and only swap back to hybrid if you have hate, but sometimes hate is bouncing like crazy or there are nasty AOEs and it's best to just stay in your hybrid gear. Your DPS may suffer but it's better than taking a dirt nap.

This is not as optional as it once was. It used to be only Legion that really required a hybrid build, but that's changed with Adoulin. A lot of delve NMs require hybrid builds as well, as does Odin 2 even if you're in the adds party.

I'd say at this point, hybrid is not required to just goof around in Abyssea or whatever, but if you consider your DD to be in any sense "modern" then it will have a hybrid set. It's not optional for a serious DD anymore.

Edit: Here's an example, my DRK's hybrid build which is fairly generic: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/282184
Totals: 24% Haste, -33% PDT, -27% MDT
With this build, I still gain TP fairly fast, but take WAY less damage than I would in a normal TP build.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 9:36am by Pergatory
#18 Jun 24 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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GLGunblade wrote:
Nebo1 wrote:


DD's are expected to have sets for TP, WS, -PDT, -MDT as a minimum. Then you get into specialty sets for JA's, Watlzes, RACC....really any number of things.

Mages and support are expected to have a large amount of gearsets too.


I'm skeptical about the claim that DD's are expected to have a -pdt or -mdt set as a MINIMUM.
Most certainly gear for TP and WS sets as a minimum. -PDT and -MDT (or a combo -DT) set's a luxury, but a welcome one.


In endgame scenarios (almost everything in SoA), they are necessary.

You might get into a plasm farm pick-up shout group without them, but one of two things will likely happen:

  • You will deal crap damage and never take hate...but not get invited back due to said crap damage.
  • You will die frequently and not get invited back due to lack of relevant gear sets.


If you are doing your job as a DD, you are going to pull hate at some point, get hit by an AOE TP move, AOE Spell, etc.

Dead DDs don't deal damage well. As a DD, your job is to be on the front lines, SURVIVE being on the front lines, and deal as much damage as possible. Surviving on the front lines is not the sole responsibility of your support, it is also yours.

Since it is not realistic to turn, run, or get out of the way, in the face of most TP moves, spells, or being at the top of the hate list...you need to be able to react with gearswaps to minimize the damage you take: Evasion, MDT, PDT...whatever the situation calls for.

This does not only apply to "osh*t" moments when you are about to die either. In delve runs the pace can get quite high. Mages don't have time to rest (and a lot of the PUG ones really suck. I've had WHMs that never run out of MP even without outside refresh. I've also had ones that run their MP pools dry even with full-time ballads). So the smaller the amount of stress you place on them, the greater the chances your run is going to go smoothly and net you more plasm in the process.

If you cannot do that, you are not performing one of the more basic roles of a DD job, imo. And its not like, as a DD, you have a whole lot to do otherwise. TP to 100, use a couple JA's, WS at 100.

If you can't react to situations with gearswaps to minimize damage taken, I would not invite you. It would also (for me) call into question the caliber of player your are and the quality of the TP/WS/Other gear sets you do have.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 3:44pm by Nebo1
#19 Jun 24 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I'd say that the - PDT sets are more relevant on the jobs expected to pull, e.g. THF, BRD, and COR. I'm having to rebuild my BRD -PDT set since I've died a few times trying to make really long pulls in Delve.


This brings an interesting point for me. I think BRD has a hard time pulling effectively in Morimar Delve. Imo, the most effective Fishing team in fracture farm is THF + BRD where BRD pulls closer mobs (and /mage to help with cures/buffs/Dia Spam/haste rotation) and the THF does most of the heavy (multiple mobs/Long range) pulling.

My BRD has capped PDT for my pulling set, and I generally work defense songs for me into my Nightingale/Troubador rotation. I find that /RDM with tacos and SS (and other spells if you have the time to prep on long pulls) is preferable to /NIN (much more damage mitigated, imo).Not everyone might have the fastcast gear to make /rdm self buffs effective but...it is a viable option I think.

I'm a pretty experienced puller, I know the areas and respawns quite well. BRD works ok as a self sufficient fisherman, but at a certain point, I think BRD plateaus at the rate at which it can pull and survive.

On BRD, I can't come close to the pulling power that my THF/NIN has with Max evasion set (including two Evasion Thockcha) and 18% movement speed + Flee. Neither in terms of surviving longer pulls, the speed at which pulls get back to the group, nor the sheer amount of mobs I can pull at one time. The BRD staying close to the DDs, provide Buffs (and potentially a haste rotation), pull local mobs and sleep the trains I pull.

On THF, I can aggro train 4-6 mobs constantly without much effort (or casting time) at all really. It always makes me /sadface when I see ppl bring THF there just to TH stuff.

IMO, THF is by far and away the most effective pulling job (with BRD support) in Morimar outside of using third party programs that enhance movement speed. And it is probably the single most significant thing a THF can do to up max potential plasm per run (and thus net airlixir gain for everyone) gained on your joe average non-NM kill runs. More so than then even filling that slot with another DD.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 6:22pm by Nebo1
#20 Jun 24 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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oh god yeah I couldn't agree enough. Please everyone read this and stop making me do long pulls in morimar.

#21 Jun 25 2013 at 4:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Sound arguments for a -pdt set, post adoulin. I would still claim that 95% pre-adoulin a -pdt set is unneccessary and putting this thread back onto the original op, since he's asking if tp sets are neccessary I imagine Delve is still a long way off.
#22 Jun 25 2013 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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Eh, I've never regretted having some pdt gear. Even outside of adoulin if you're doing any pulling it's good to have - or any soloing it can really make a difference when push comes to shove.
#23 Jun 25 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, I've never doubted the soloing part or -pdt in general, just that it's a nice luxury to have in those situations, solo or pt wise and worth getting once you've completed your tp and ws sets.

Though all the best main pieces (head, body, arms, etc) are hard to get :(
Accessories, aren't too hard though if you have the time and some gil (Dark Ring farming, Mollusca mantle for 2.5 mil, etc).
#24 Jun 26 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:
GLGunblade wrote:
Nebo1 wrote:


DD's are expected to have sets for TP, WS, -PDT, -MDT as a minimum. Then you get into specialty sets for JA's, Watlzes, RACC....really any number of things.

Mages and support are expected to have a large amount of gearsets too.


I'm skeptical about the claim that DD's are expected to have a -pdt or -mdt set as a MINIMUM.
Most certainly gear for TP and WS sets as a minimum. -PDT and -MDT (or a combo -DT) set's a luxury, but a welcome one.


In endgame scenarios (almost everything in SoA), they are necessary.

You might get into a plasm farm pick-up shout group without them, but one of two things will likely happen:

  • You will deal crap damage and never take hate...but not get invited back due to said crap damage.
  • You will die frequently and not get invited back due to lack of relevant gear sets.


If you are doing your job as a DD, you are going to pull hate at some point, get hit by an AOE TP move, AOE Spell, etc.

Dead DDs don't deal damage well. As a DD, your job is to be on the front lines, SURVIVE being on the front lines, and deal as much damage as possible. Surviving on the front lines is not the sole responsibility of your support, it is also yours.

Since it is not realistic to turn, run, or get out of the way, in the face of most TP moves, spells, or being at the top of the hate list...you need to be able to react with gearswaps to minimize the damage you take: Evasion, MDT, PDT...whatever the situation calls for.

This does not only apply to "osh*t" moments when you are about to die either. In delve runs the pace can get quite high. Mages don't have time to rest (and a lot of the PUG ones really suck. I've had WHMs that never run out of MP even without outside refresh. I've also had ones that run their MP pools dry even with full-time ballads). So the smaller the amount of stress you place on them, the greater the chances your run is going to go smoothly and net you more plasm in the process.

If you cannot do that, you are not performing one of the more basic roles of a DD job, imo. And its not like, as a DD, you have a whole lot to do otherwise. TP to 100, use a couple JA's, WS at 100.

If you can't react to situations with gearswaps to minimize damage taken, I would not invite you. It would also (for me) call into question the caliber of player your are and the quality of the TP/WS/Other gear sets you do have.

Edited, Jun 24th 2013 3:44pm by Nebo1


This post is informative but pretty much sucks the fun out of the game for me.
It's way too serious and woe be tide if I press the wrong button at the wrong time and cause the end of vanadiel.
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#25 Jun 26 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Janeash wrote:
This post is informative but pretty much sucks the fun out of the game for me.
It's way too serious and woe be tide if I press the wrong button at the wrong time and cause the end of vanadiel.


Welcome to FFXI. Challenge has always been the appeal of this game, and that's why it draws such a more mature crowd than most MMOs. You may see it as a bad thing, but many who play see it as a good thing.

There was a brief "low point" in this game when Abyssea & Voidwatch came out because they went against this idea, being extremely easy to the point where the game became pick-up central. They literally killed linkshells with that content, because the game became so easy. Now a lot of newer players are used to easy, and upset when it's this hard. This is how the game was for many years after release, pretty much up through ToAU.

In my opinion, this challenge should be welcome. You should be glad that one wrong move from one person can end the fight for everyone, because it makes the battles all that much more intense, and victory all that much sweeter. I admit it's a bit of a problem in its current state though because players breeze through everything pre-99 now and their first real exposure to challenge is in the absolute endgame where suddenly it gets really challenging and they're expected to know a lot of stuff they simply won't have bothered to learn in the easy Abyssea/Voidwatch style content. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that OP reached Lv99 before being shocked by the news that they are expected to swap gear. That wouldn't have been possible in old FFXI. He wouldn't have made it into the 60's.
#26 Jun 26 2013 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
Janeash wrote:
This post is informative but pretty much sucks the fun out of the game for me.
It's way too serious and woe be tide if I press the wrong button at the wrong time and cause the end of vanadiel.


Welcome to FFXI. Challenge has always been the appeal of this game, and that's why it draws such a more mature crowd than most MMOs. You may see it as a bad thing, but many who play see it as a good thing.

There was a brief "low point" in this game when Abyssea & Voidwatch came out because they went against this idea, being extremely easy to the point where the game became pick-up central. They literally killed linkshells with that content, because the game became so easy. Now a lot of newer players are used to easy, and upset when it's this hard. This is how the game was for many years after release, pretty much up through ToAU.

In my opinion, this challenge should be welcome. You should be glad that one wrong move from one person can end the fight for everyone, because it makes the battles all that much more intense, and victory all that much sweeter. I admit it's a bit of a problem in its current state though because players breeze through everything pre-99 now and their first real exposure to challenge is in the absolute endgame where suddenly it gets really challenging and they're expected to know a lot of stuff they simply won't have bothered to learn in the easy Abyssea/Voidwatch style content. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that OP reached Lv99 before being shocked by the news that they are expected to swap gear. That wouldn't have been possible in old FFXI. He wouldn't have made it into the 60's.


I think you're overestimating the old days. I was there from the beginning (well when ever the UK began anyway) and I don't remember gear swapping as that huge a factor (Not saying it wasn't a factor though) until end game stuff which 60 would never have been, even then it wasn't as hardcore as delve was now with every possible set under the sun to be ready at a moments notice or the entire battle was lost.

Well maybe a couple instances but not many...
Unless your just exaggerating, then my bad >_>
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