Merited WS: Final Verdict?Follow

OK so tl;dr - Is it worth putting 5 in a category?

Basically I have Exenterator at 5 because, originally, I mainly played DNC and still do not have my Mythic WS for self SC darkness. I also have 3 merits in Ruinator from my time as BST. I have recently picked up PUP more as a main, and RUN for tanking some mobs, so I have put one each in Shijin Spiral and Resolution. Basically, is there a point to taking one to 5? Where's the point of diminishing returns?

DD-only WS, specifically the old 'Empy WS is garbage, use this instead' variety, are deserving of 5/5. Reso, Shoha, Stardiver.

Next patch your RUN might actually swing a better Ruinator than Reso.

Shijin should beat Pummel on post-Abyssea content, but seriously who's bringing PUP to that for anything but the puppet.

Sadly, I don't have any mythic skills. Never got to floor 100.



Honestly, if I had Pummel, I wouldn't have gotten Shijin. I would have been happy with Pummel, and just not been concerned, even though I know Shijin can beat it. I have MNK to 99 as well now, so not sure if I should just toss it if I get access to Mythics.




See, that's my issue. I have a lot of jobs leveled. I was too tired to write the rest of what I was going to say, but basically I took Exen because I was primarily on DNC and THF, and was even looking to get a Mandau at one point. Right now, that's on hold till they decide what they plan to do about the relics. Then I was going to 5/5 Ruinator because I mainly played BST, but now I've hung up my axes because I just feel there's no point really buffing/becoming better on my character when the jug is the real star of the show. My last choice was going to be 5/5 Shoha. I originally was not going GS at all, and I'm not into DRG, who would get the most benefit from Star. The first two were to give me access to powerful WS's on jobs I normally used, with one "OMG PWN" skill to toss on a job that is good for zergs/endgame style content. Since my mages aren't going to be meleeing, I figured SAM would be my go-to melee as I know they never really go out of style for the most part, where as WAR, MNK, et all wax and wane constantly. It's mainly because I don't want to redo 5/5 again if I choose to go another route.

That's why I was seeing if anyone here knew if it was worth taking it past a certain level. Like you said Olo, you like flexibility, and honestly so do I. Before, 1 merit was useless, so I tried to pick skills that were at least a bit of a crossover (My WAR did fairly well on Exen actually, and WAR is also on Ruinator, so I figured that way, I'd have two decent skills even if WAR normally breaks out the GAxe). I just don't know if I should lower Exen to get other skills (Upheaval included, but as I recall, Rae is right, those three are the best of the best), or just leave it as it.

Edit:

Oh and I was never really impressed much by Exen. I didn't try too hard to build a WS set for it, honestly, since normally both jobs I used were used in such a way that damage was not an issue (DNC normally soloing so banking TP for cure, THF for tanking Aby mobs, so damage was a no-no till proc), and since both jobs kind of suffered from fat kid syndrome (why pick a DNC or a THF, I thought you wanted damage lol).

Edited, Jun 11th 2013 7:50am by Pawkeshup

1 point into a merited weaponskill (86% modifier) is greater than 4 points pre-adjustment (80% modifier). The difference between 1 and 5 points is essentially 14% STR adjustments pre alpha correction (86%, 89.5%, 93%, 96.5%, 100%). While there is a difference it isn't as huge as it was before. Personally I've fully merited out Shoha and I'll just put one point into other WSs as I use them.

15 points is *incredibly* restrictive and I wish they would bump it up considering how many weaponskills are available. I realize that the point is to specialize but considering that for a lot of weapons anything that's not merited or Empyrean (and in very, very, VERY rare cases Relic or Mythic) weaponskills are generally terrible.

Maxed Requiescat, it's more or less the same as 1/5, except it's now a waste of 5 category points instead of 1.

Im also thinking of going 1/5 for Requiescat so i can still do drk sc with blu. I never really understood how the mind modifier worked, Ruinator gets +str which makes sense.

Zelduh, is that you?

Tooled around with some spreadsheets after manually adding a bunch of new junk (I should just get the newest versions I guess...)

I found some situations where Stringing Pummel beats Shijin Spiral... and in every one of these situations a DRG would beat a DRK. That's how absurd they had to get.

The question usually isn't, "Is it worth it to 5/5 this weaponskill?", it's "How much will I gain from 1 additional merit in this weaponskill?" Start with 1 point in all the weaponskills you want, and then add one point at a time to each one that will give you the most value for that point spent.

General trends:

1) The higher the base damage of the weapon, the less value additional merits in a merit WS are. (ie: there's less gain to be had from Upheaval than from Exenterator)

2) The greater the percentage of your overall damage comes from weaponskills, the more valuable additional merits are. (ie: there's more gain to be had from Shoha than from Shijin)

3) The more often you can make use of the weaponskill (ie: time you spend on jobs that can use the weaponskill), the greater the relative 'worth' additional merits will have on a personal level.

4) Certain alternative weaponskills with low WSC mods gain a great deal from Delve weapons, relative to merit weaponskills, because their base damage is so much more heavily dependent on the weapon itself. This is sort of a restatement of #1. So: Evisceration is very competitive with Exenterator; Asuran Fists/Stringing Pummel are very competitive with Shijin Spiral; Blade: Jin is very competitive with Blade: Shun. If you put only 1/5 merits in those weaponskills, it will largely be for skillchain options rather than improved damage. You need to be at 4/5 or 5/5 to really start pulling ahead, and even then it's sometimes still situational. Thus, the gain of adding additional merits is fairly low.


Personal opinion:

It's 'worth' putting 5/5 in Shoha and Resolution. They outdo their alternatives by wide margins, and are used by jobs that are very heavily weaponskill-focused. If you have any reason to merit them at all, it's reasonable to take them to 5/5.

It may be worth putting 5/5 in Upheaval, Ruinator, Stardiver, Last Stand or Apex Arrow, if you use the jobs that use those weaponskills a great deal. War is slightly less WS focused than sam or drk, bst tends to be a side job for most, cor's duties mean you often won't be able to make much use of its damage potential, and rng is likely going to prefer a low-enmity option in the situations you'd bring it for. They're each worth a few merits, but often not 5/5.

It's worth putting 5/5 in Exenterator and Shijin Spiral only if you seriously consider dnc+thf or mnk+pup your 'main' jobs. For all of these jobs, they're on the low end of the value scale for points #2 and #4. They're at the higher end of point #1, but with Delve weapons it's not quite as great a gain as it used to be.

Entropy and Requiescat are nice utility weaponskills, but have relatively low value in additional merits.

Any other weaponskill (including Blade: Shun) is mostly at the 'toy' level. You can 5/5 if you're a crazy DD whm or smn or something.