The "New Direction"Follow

You might have trouble convincing leaders that can't see past their noses, but an upgraded weapon from Skirmish will be on par with most RME weapons (maybe not lv99). Unlike Delve gear, upgrading Skirmish drops is fast, just a bit of luck is involved...

Unfortunately, almost anything from Skirmish is completely trumped by Delve, so it's hard to gather the motivation to complete it when Delve is already fairly easy, but that was the progression that SE was planning.


Almost all groups will want 2-3 BRDs (fortunately, relic/empy is rarely necessary for BRD in large groups), but I really hate suggesting that players go that route.

So lets see... you can barely get invited to Delve on your <insert DD job here>? Don't like that <insert support job here> shouting for groups saying you aren't good enough? Gee, maybe it's because they have better DD gear than you do... and still have to play BRD.

I mean, god forbid you do something to help the people you are attempting to leech from. That's their job.

I think it's more a case of the shouters wanting to leech off of people who've already cleared the content. They want to make up for their own shortcomings or the shortcomings of their friends who are allowed to defy the shout requirements. They only want to surround themselves with the best so they can put forth the least effort possible and have the new gear basically handed to them.

I'm "only" a relic bard, sans the 90 Empy I need for the third song (it's 73 Apamadaks horns short and I've resigned myself to just brewing those solo), and I've never been turned away for a Delve.

I think the broader issue is that there are alternatives to the ultimate weapons, yet the community has always perpetually min/max'd. That's why in the CoP days, SMNs sprung up like weeds. It's why BLMs fell out of style in Aht Urghan. Pretty much every endgame trend has led people to level either their most loved job and be lucky that it is one of the "chosen few", or level another job you have to play to get gear for the job you love.

The broader issue is that obtaining an Empyrean now, the easiest of the RME, is a damn long process, and those that didn't bother with them are finding themselves on the outside looking in. There are great AH weapons out there that will do just fine as a substitute, but no, they are not acceptable because they are not the absolute best. And no one is doing the intermediary steps because, well why should they, they can just shout for RME and get it. Because those same grinders are looking to grind more to get the new shiny. So it becomes more insular and exclusive to have the best of the best.

I am reminded of old school Sky LS's... whose requirement to join was to have Sky access. Now, this was at a time that you could not solo to get Sky access, you needed help on many of the fights. You are expecting someone without the support or ability to reach your entry point to do so anyway because you demand it. Yes, they can level BRD if they don't have it... And then gear and skill it because, as you say, why invite a BRD who isn't already skilled and geared? Why not just use some buddy's secondary account as a BRD slot and just go in.

To put it another way, a friend of mine recently came back to the game. He quit pre-Abyssea. And he said to me, "So how do I get my Empyrean armor?" I was about to say to get in groups and farm them... but then how? To be considered, you need one of the golden jobs (NIN, BLM, WHM, THF) to guarantee entry. He has BLU but not all his spells (something he is working on). But then he has no Atma, either. So he needs at least some Atma. Well how does he get Atma? He can't do it alone, he doesn't have the right jobs (No NIN, no WAR) to be a proc for them. He would have to literally leech them. He has no choices. He is alone, and only really has me to rely on for anything.

You're "just improve your gear or change your job" mentality, while shared by the devs, doesn't take into consideration one thing; people don't start FFXI with all jobs 99, gear for all jobs, and a friendlist a mile long. You have to start somewhere, and right now for Delve, where does one start? Wildkeeper Rieves on my server are already rare; I don't think anyone even does Skirmish. So right now the best gear you're getting is a mix of AH and Bayld gear. And if you go the BRD route, you are now competing with everyone else for a limited number of slots and playing a job you most likely don't even enjoy and needed to invest a ton of time in just so your "fun" job, which you rarely get to play because you haven't got "the best gear" for it, gets to be geared up.

How is that fun to do? How is it enjoyable to suffer 98 levels of BRD, doing seals or buying gear for BRD, buying, questing and farming scrolls for BRD. skilling up BRD, only to be able to gear your actual job?

Get over yourself, will you? The content was poorly laid out for the way the community jumps over steps and skips ahead, preferring the quick road to the one they planned. The events are becoming more insular as the haves get more and the have-nots are left standing in Jeuno trying to get an invite or all leveling BRD or WHM in order to conform to people like yourself. And the rift is not going to close once they add the next tier.

I'm in that situation! And it wouldn't bother me at all. Because maintaining imaginary status quos totally makes sense (hint: it doesn't. Probably too subtle for you). Yeah, I love the ffxi community. You're not allowed to have fun until you suffer like "I" selected to do so. Yes in a video game that's not about competition, there must be competition. This imaginary item must mean the same to you as it does to me... whine whine pout pout.

I'd just take my horn, and use it to get a new one. Then I'd go have fun with it and hope my fellow players are too.

Maybe I should toss mine though, the hidden effect of short man syndrome isn't kicking in. It must be broken.

Oh so easy to say, but so hard to do.

OK smart guy, let's embark on a hypothetical journey. You lose your character, and the server you were on is blocked from allowing you to return. You are forced to start over on a new server as a new character. Tell me, how will you get into Delve?

You see, what I am saying is the community needs to get off the "RME ONRY OR GTFO" kick. In the above scenario, unless you find some really nice people, you are ****** for a very, very long time. You need Dynamis wins and currency to get a Relic weapon, plus tons of gil to get the "accepted" version of the weapon. Mythic, you need a ton of requirements I've detailed elsewhere. Empyrean requires you to have help or gil to pay for help. And that's just to be allowed to play as a DD. And, again, if we are coming at it from the BRD/RDM/WHM side, what if you did not want to play a mage? You'd suffer through 98 levels, all the farming and gearing for that job just so you can turn around and gear what you want. Doable? Yes. Fun? **** no.

And who says you would be accepted even if you followed the sage advice you have been giving? You need RME to be a DD. Relic and/or RME to tank. So toss out every melee. So that leaves, what, three BRD slots, 2/3 WHM slots and maybe a RDM tossed in? Maybe a BLM, depending? Given the rapidity I've seen shouts start and end once the RMEs have shown up, I'm guessing you very well will stand idle, thumb up your ***, hoping to get picked. Especially if all of us "leeches" follow your grand master plan.

Oh, so you've suffered, have you? Oh poor, poor baby. My heart bleeds for you. And yet, here I am saying "Hey, wouldn't it be nice if you could have actually played the job you enjoyed rather than slogging through ****?" Does that not resonate with you, given the fact you have "paid your dues"? Oh wait, that's right, for people like you, this is not a video game. It's their life. You must do whatever it takes, no matter how miserable it makes you, to achieve "success"!

I think all you have succeeded in doing is turning yourself in a jaded, bitter, and arrogant jackass. Remember when the game was fun? Oh wait, it still is "fun" for you, isn't it? Because, as you ***** about having to gear your BRD or WHM up for yet another run so that you can ensure "that events don't go down in a flaming pile of sh*t and death", you are having oh so much fun, aren't you?

Why? I am not so arrogant as to believe my way is the only right way. You can follow what you're saying, hate yourself every second you do it, and get your stuff. I am just suggesting a rational, logical alternative solution that others are actually using depending on their server. You're the one demanding people do as you do.

So yes, you need to get over yourself. Your precious suffering for virtual shinies is meaningless, and should have opened your eyes to find another way for others, but all it's done is leave you a sad, bitter gamer who thinks everyone needs to suffer like they did, because reasons.

Most of the shouts I see for Delve are RMED, not RME. If a hypothetical person is starting over, obviously obtaining an RME would be a really daunting proposition. I wouldn't expect a new person to go through all that heartache. But for Delve weapons, the goal is significantly more attainable. I get the argument that the person might despise playing a support or mage job, but all the hypothetical person needs to do is play the support job long enough to get that one T4/T5 KI associated with the Delve weapon for the job they love, and then play it in 5+ Plasma farming parties to make 30,000 Plasma. These goals, while admittedly not "easy", are not as insurmountable for newer players as making an RME would be. And some support job gear is more AH-friendly than others.

Edited, May 17th 2013 5:28pm by Poltergeist27

OK, let's take BRD, shall we?

So first, you need level 99. Not too hard and besides, you need that to do Delve anyway on any job. So let's discount all the work that will take. Now you need gear. Forget Empyrean unless you have friends/make friends. That leaves you with AH and Bayld gear.

For Bayld: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Orvail_Armor_Set
AF: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Choral_Attire_Set

Likely will have at least the unified ele staff if not the individual ones.

Now, how much AH gear, cost-wise, would you consider needed for you, as a party leader, to want to invite this character over, say, another BRD? I assume you've done the fights, would the above be enough, and if not, how much more gil does someone need to sink into BRD to make it "Delve-worthy"?

Edit: On a side-note, seeing all the new BRD pieces is making me want to dump off my leveling gear and grab my old BRD kit.

Edited, May 17th 2013 6:14pm by Pawkeshup