Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Level 99 R/M/E and WoE Weapons Follow

#127 May 10 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
TheBarrister wrote:
KojiroSoma wrote:
I really dont understand why every single RME holder was crying out over these weapons though. Seemed childish to me.


Not even remotely childish as sticking your head in the sand and being a purposely blind, insensitive twit to hard work put in by the people that kept this game going when the finnicky casuals happy in others frustration left the game. As I said, makes no sense that mules and people who got lucky to be invited pre-20 minute timer to Tier 4s suddenly getting 95-99 class R/M/E weapons with less than 10 hours of work.

KojiroSoma wrote:

There really was nothing even remotely threatening about them.


Are you trolling us?

KojiroSoma wrote:

But people just had to complain and now these weapons are even more outclassed by RME's. Good going player base. Good going SE for giving in to whiny demands of infants. You're really showing you care about everyone.


SE did a great job of addressing a major concern of their most loyal and profitable customers. It isn't as far as they could have gone, but at least it's a step in the right direction.


Can you back up anything you've said with facts and numbers or are you just eyeballing it?
#128 May 10 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
4,281 posts
When he says most profitable customers, he means players who are likely to have been subscribed a long time with multiple mules and often additional accounts. On a per-person basis, these types of players are the most profitable.
____________________________
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
#129 May 10 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Another "fact" (I would think this is abundantly clear by now, but...) is what I already stated on this page of the thread. Friend's WHM mule got Bloodbath in less than hour for his pretty average (Ravagers +2) warrior. 7-8 hours of farming to get Alixirs and Plasm to upgrade a couple of levels. Immediate jump in performance to be near performance of 99 Ukon in NNI when we went and helped some of our friends out. So less than 10 hours to do what took 1000+ hours. Yeah that's just not right. But keep arguing "A CHANGE WAS NEEDED" since you know, 99 R/M/E were around sooooooo long.
____________________________
Carbuncle


#130 May 10 2013 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,159 posts
detlef wrote:
When he says most profitable customers, he means players who are likely to have been subscribed a long time with multiple mules and often additional accounts. On a per-person basis, these types of players are the most profitable.

Yet he has no numbers on just how many of these types of players exist. Just like I couldn't tell you how many people quit in frustration or the realization that all someone has to do after a point is endlessly grind which could easily offset that if they weren't alienated.

Forum jockeys playing to such extremes, especially with such high posts counts, isn't an anomaly in the MMO scene. There's a glaring element of hypocrisy to the whole insensitivity schtick he's trying to play up and it's not a new mentality for him. Either way, let's not pretend these players are the norm or that even RME holders are a majority. Because even if we try to dissect the census under an assumption of 200k players, we have no means of figuring out who is holding multiple weapons, and in turn, likely being those multi-account holders putting all their eggs in the basket of their main.

I find it unfortunate that Matsui caved, but Kojiro brought up something that should happen now that the flood gates have been opened: All magian weapons need new trials to bring them up to speed. Everyone has memories of the game. Implying those of RME holders is more important is most assuredly what makes them the *** the hardcore/elitist community is perpetually accused of being. The rest is just them being assumptive jerks as to why someone can't/won't play at their level and throw out words like "flaky" to simultaneously pat themselves on the back because they're obviously not.
____________________________
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
#131 May 10 2013 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
TheBarrister wrote:
Another "fact" (I would think this is abundantly clear by now, but...) is what I already stated on this page of the thread. Friend's WHM mule got Bloodbath in less than hour for his pretty average (Ravagers +2) warrior. 7-8 hours of farming to get Alixirs and Plasm to upgrade a couple of levels. Immediate jump in performance to be near performance of 99 Ukon in NNI when we went and helped some of our friends out. So less than 10 hours to do what took 1000+ hours. Yeah that's just not right. But keep arguing "A CHANGE WAS NEEDED" since you know, 99 R/M/E were around sooooooo long.



Another fact? And it's a personal anecdote. Not quite what I meant. Still waiting on the actual facts. I'd be right there with you if having a R/E/M blocked you out of getting a delve weapon but it doesn't.

You spent this thread talking up a lot of things and aren't backing them up. What is the percentage base of these R/E/M users that are so affected negatively by new weapons that they could also use? What is the profitability on average versus the someone that isn't an R/E/M user?

I just don't follow how someone else being able to get a great weapon limits your enjoyment. And in a mmo, it is about team work. Options are nice. It took ten hours to have another war with at least decent output, that sounds awesome to me.

Plus the severe over reaction of that crowd, they said they were weighing options immediately.
#132 May 10 2013 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
apapertiger wrote:
TheBarrister wrote:
Another "fact" (I would think this is abundantly clear by now, but...) is what I already stated on this page of the thread. Friend's WHM mule got Bloodbath in less than hour for his pretty average (Ravagers +2) warrior. 7-8 hours of farming to get Alixirs and Plasm to upgrade a couple of levels. Immediate jump in performance to be near performance of 99 Ukon in NNI when we went and helped some of our friends out. So less than 10 hours to do what took 1000+ hours. Yeah that's just not right. But keep arguing "A CHANGE WAS NEEDED" since you know, 99 R/M/E were around sooooooo long.



Another fact? And it's a personal anecdote. Not quite what I meant. Still waiting on the actual facts. I


We're all waiting on facts. Like facts to back up the statement I responded to in the first place:

KojiroSoma wrote:

There really was nothing even remotely threatening about them.


And the facts from people who have quit this game and haven't played in a while but apparently know what's best for all of us.

And the facts of from people without R/M/E who apparently are able to so quickly take joy in seeing others long and hard work be so easily made obsolete.

apapertiger wrote:

I'd be right there with you if having a R/E/M blocked you out of getting a delve weapon but it doesn't.


Which is why I'm working on one. Apparently the only way to stay relevant in this game is spamming the content flavor of the week.

apapertiger wrote:

You spent this thread talking up a lot of things and aren't backing them up. What is the percentage base of these R/E/M users that are so affected negatively by new weapons that they could also use? What is the profitability on average versus the someone that isn't an R/E/M user?


It's guaranteed to be higher. People who are more dedicated must necessarily pay more because they have to play for longer. Everyone I've met with 99 R/M/E has at least 2 accounts. There is no one I've met without one who has only 1. Even if I limited this to my closest 5 known acquaintances with and without R/M/E, that's a fact. But I guess you only put the onus on me to provide facts, not the guy who said there is nothing threatening about the ease at which superior weapons can be obtained. Typical.

apapertiger wrote:

I just don't follow how someone else being able to get a great weapon limits your enjoyment. And in a mmo, it is about team work. Options are nice. It took ten hours to have another war with at least decent output, that sounds awesome to me.


I guess it will be awesome in about 6 months when all of this content is irrelevant. It will be even more awesome when whatever you spend your time on in FFXI the rest of this year results in you starting at the same level as a new player in 2014. Please come back and tell us how awesome that is in the future. I'm certain it will be totally awesome. It may be so awesome that I begin a mule character of your job and we can get all the new gear together!! Awesome!!!

____________________________
Carbuncle


#133 May 10 2013 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
So you don't have the facts?

You act like you know what's best for all of us.

Content of the week update doesn't sound more fun than 10 years of dynamis? 7 years of salvage and assault? Three years of abysea?

Relic weapons are ancient. I'd hope my 10 year old car wasn't better than a 2013 model.

If it is guaranteed to be higher, show me. Using math built off the whole game. Not a personal anecdote of your inner circle. (I only know of one person in this game using a single account btw).

Your last paragraph doesn't even make sense. How does someone catching up to me hurt my experience? I may disagree with you but you seem like an alright guy, so that scenario actually does sound awesome. I play just to do cool **** with cool people. The less time it takes to get there, the better.

i get another not gimp to go adventuring with. That's a win - win scenario. I'm struggling to find a downside.

That loss of accomplishment you're experiencing is called insecurity. SE can't patch that.
#134 May 10 2013 at 11:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,268 posts
apapertiger wrote:
i get another not gimp to go adventuring with. That's a win - win scenario. I'm struggling to find a downside.

One-hundred-and-fifty f*cking percent this.

Making someone grind just to catch up to do content isn't conducive to them giving two ***** to do it, lol.
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#135 May 11 2013 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,159 posts
Raelix wrote:
apapertiger wrote:
i get another not gimp to go adventuring with. That's a win - win scenario. I'm struggling to find a downside.

One-hundred-and-fifty f*cking percent this.

Making someone grind just to catch up to do content isn't conducive to them giving two sh*ts to do it, lol.

A point I've tried to stress much to the dismay of some selective misinterpretation over the course of a few topics.

In context of the recent Delve NM adjustment, it hurts my praise of the system. 20m timers on the outside NMs does indeed reintroduce the tight restrictions on group formations that made Legion and other older activities annoying. Granted, I can understand SE not wanting people to take hours to fight NMs with only a single pop iteration, but to me, that screams the symptoms of another problem or combination of such. Would it really be too much to ask for coded reactions for players to interpret so they know they're doing the right or wrong things beyond suddenly taking a dirt nap or whiffing all over the place? Or, you know, multiple pops. Their reason against that was pretty damn flimsy.

That said, if Skirmish isn't so hard to access now, maybe people will be a bit better off. There's still an element of gambling on the augments, but it'll still put most in a better position than a lot of the old top-end magian weapons. There's even a part of me that wouldn't object to seeing the delve KIs buyable for Bayld respective of their tier, though I'm sure some would assert it'd have to be some stupid high number because, horror of horrors, someone might get an item in 10 hours that isn't even the best possible. That fine line between investment and obsession is something apparently long since crossed for some, which is why I'm sad Matsui yielded.
____________________________
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
#136 May 12 2013 at 7:29 PM Rating: Default
**
356 posts
So if you made an Excalibur and did the Walk of Echoes quest you would be able to use Knights of Round as bluemage with any sword?
#137 May 12 2013 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
****
5,684 posts
It sounds like SE might offer the ability to unlock empy weaponskills if you complete the lv99 coin weapons.

BUT

These are only proposals and we do not have any real formal announcements. Most likely, we will see the significant boost to lv99 RME weapons. Until we get real solid plans, I would not put too much stock into coin weapons unless you have nothing else to do.

Edited, May 12th 2013 9:19pm by xypin
#138 May 12 2013 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
aadrenry wrote:
So if you made an Excalibur and did the Walk of Echoes quest you would be able to use Knights of Round as bluemage with any sword?


No. Walk of Echoes allowed players to make "faux-pyreans", weaker versions of the Empyrean weapons specifically to allow people to have access to the Empyrean weaponskill. What they're planning to do is allow you to unlock the Empyrean weaponskill for all weapons of that type if you have the 99 version of the Walk of Echoes weapon. So if you had the 99 version of the Walk of Echoes sword, you would unlock Chant du Cygne to be useable with any sword. It'd only lock Empyrean weaponskills, not Relics.
____________________________
Lady Jinte wrote:

Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points

#139 May 15 2013 at 3:08 AM Rating: Excellent
*
97 posts
Allright, just as a reference, and im just putting it out there...

A friend of mine who's pretty hardcore about this game (let's say he's elite, but a very nice guy) already has rank 12+ weapons and armor. I ran into him today. That's already a lot of steps further then my progress on own Delve weapons, Im stuck at rank2/3 weapons and no Delve armor yet. I said wow, so you already have rank 12 gear! That's amazing! His response : Nah it's not that good yet.

My point, after the shock their old weapons went outdated for a while, they just did what they always have done, grind like hell and get the ultimate weapons first. I think that's what the majority of the hardcore/elite crowd did, cause I see a lot of people with that high rank gear already. I didnt hear them complain at all, nada. They are leagues ahead of what the "Casual-hardcore", like me, are able to achieve. And Im grinding like crazy on plasm farming. Yes, most of them already have Delve boss weapons and gear. Bottemline is, they are not bothered... at all. And I had top players on my server explain strats to casuals at certain Field NMs fights. So everyone is happily playing together. Certain PUG group withstanding of course, some people just dont want to listen Smiley: oyvey
#140 May 15 2013 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,511 posts
TheBarrister wrote:
Another "fact"
KojiroSoma wrote:

There really was nothing even remotely threatening about them.


And the facts from people who have quit this game and haven't played in a while but apparently know what's best for all of us.

And the facts of from people without R/M/E who apparently are able to so quickly take joy in seeing others long and hard work be so easily made obsolete.

You should get your facts straight. I havent left this game the past 10 years for more than two weeks total. On top of that, i have a relic and an Emp... Not that it matters or changes anything.

The one handed weapons are simply incredibly lackluster compared to RME's. Halachuinic Sword for instance has maybe 10~20% over the Magian PDT sword. Surely you're not going to tell us -now- that Almace's damage output all of a sudden wasnt that big, because... there wouldnt have been a reason to exclude anyone over it before then. Ofcourse not, it did crazy amounts of damage more. Especially during aftermath. With a really good WS to boot.

Sure, i'll give you that the Great Sword performs decently, but it's nothing a (decently geared) Ragnarok wielder wouldnt be able to equally match.

That all said, you guys seem to put such weight on how it's "Oh so hard to get a Emp" when only weeks before these things got introduced every single one of you was bragging "Oh, i can get one Emp done in a week". On top of that, you can farm up the currency/gil for a complete Relic in Dynamis and with a little Voidwatch/HELM on the side in a little under Two Months. Same amount of time if you want to buy your Heavy Metal Plates and get Emp to 99.

So really? Is this about effort, or the time spend? I'd hardly think so. This is just about people being butthurt.
I'd think everyone would be more upset if SE was "Here's your new ultimate weapon, however, before you can use it, feel free to grind two years to get the poins for it". Atleast now, all these RME holders can get one without too much hassle as well.

Oh wait, that's right. All you abyssea trained rookies cant buy your way into this.


Edited, May 15th 2013 11:43am by KojiroSoma
____________________________
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
#141 May 15 2013 at 4:24 AM Rating: Excellent
**
701 posts
apapertiger wrote:
i get another not gimp to go adventuring with. That's a win - win scenario. I'm struggling to find a downside.


This is one of the things I've tried to tell the pro-Delve Weapon only for plasm farming crowd, but they don't seem to give two *****. It's not their problem and not their job. I know I'm off topic, but I loved your comment.
#142 May 15 2013 at 6:19 AM Rating: Excellent
**
983 posts
For those of you doing math, Halachuinic Sword actually has 72% higher DPS than a magian PDT sword even without augments and in situations where its Acc/Attack don't matter.

104/228 * 230/61 = 1.72

Carry on.
#143 May 15 2013 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,769 posts
KojiroSoma wrote:
The one handed weapons are simply incredibly lackluster compared to RME's. Halachuinic Sword for instance has maybe 10~20% over the Magian PDT sword.

A 40% damage boost. Really easy to make your point when you pull numbers out of your ***.

Quote:
Surely you're not going to tell us -now- that Almace's damage output all of a sudden wasnt that big, because... there wouldnt have been a reason to exclude anyone over it before then. Ofcourse not, it did crazy amounts of damage more. Especially during aftermath. With a really good WS to boot.

Way to pick the strongest old weapon upgrade in the game, with unique, extenuating circumstances, and compare it to one of the weakest of all the delve weapons. Try putting it up to a fair comparison, like this.

Quote:
Sure, i'll give you that the Great Sword performs decently, but it's nothing a (decently geared) Ragnarok wielder wouldnt be able to equally match.

Nope, bereaver puts you quite a bit ahead of ragnarok. All of the delve weapons do, with the exception of the nuking staff, because mages just HAVE to carry 16 weapons at all times. Your "examples" from the other thread earlier up this page about you doing 1.8k resolutions with bereaver vs 10,000+ scourges from some other unnamed DRK don't exactly lend any credence to your credibility here. Because they were outright lies.

Quote:
That all said, you guys seem to put such weight on how it's "Oh so hard to get a Emp" when only weeks before these things got introduced every single one of you was bragging "Oh, i can get one Emp done in a week". On top of that, you can farm up the currency/gil for a complete Relic in Dynamis and with a little Voidwatch/HELM on the side in a little under Two Months. Same amount of time if you want to buy your Heavy Metal Plates and get Emp to 99.

Now, yes. What about all those folks who put in 5 years of work and 5 years of work from 5-63 of their friends to make one before? To make what is both in story and mechanically designed to be the very best weapons ever. Relic weapons are crafted from the living souls of heroes and were the last best hope to stop the world from falling into the clutches of the beastmen hordes. They are sentient, speaking, growing things with a mind and history of their own. Mythics are arcane artifacts so powerful that the fates of nations were decided by who wielded them, and when. Bhalran collecting them all was the only reason Aht Urghan even exists! Even Empyrians are the personal armory of King Kupofried, as little story as we have on that.

And they were replaced by something you can get in a day, which is a mass produced weapon some guy hands out to everyone who knows to ask for it. Weapons that themselves will be made obsolete again in 6 months when the next event comes out.

Edited, May 15th 2013 8:57am by louispv
#144 May 15 2013 at 7:14 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Byrthnoth wrote:
For those of you doing math, Halachuinic Sword actually has 72% higher DPS than a magian PDT sword even without augments and in situations where its Acc/Attack don't matter.

104/228 * 230/61 = 1.72

Carry on.


Careful now, we wouldn't want to let math stand in the way of the bully pulpit.
____________________________
Carbuncle


#145TybudX, Posted: May 15 2013 at 4:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) See above. The only people I know that are butthurt about the new weapons are people who bought theirs with real cash, and casuals who had to fight tooth and nail to get their one or two 90 -99 weapons. Turns out none of the casuals have figured out how to play this game after 7 years of struggling, and two+ years of SE stuffing buffs down their throats by force. So the only people I see complaining now are the 'casuals' that were gleefully telling the 'elites' to choke on it a month ago that now realize they spent two years with a crutch and have nothing to show for it.
#146 May 15 2013 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,633 posts
Quote:
A friend of mine who's pretty hardcore about this game (let's say he's elite, but a very nice guy) already has rank 12+ weapons and armor. I ran into him today. That's already a lot of steps further then my progress on own Delve weapons, Im stuck at rank2/3 weapons and no Delve armor yet. I said wow, so you already have rank 12 gear! That's amazing! His response : Nah it's not that good yet.


A lot of people are overhyping the airlixir augments on these things. It's not like it's going to be suddenly fantastic at 15 if you don't like how it is at 12.
#147 May 15 2013 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,678 posts
The last few upgrades are marginal, yes, but multiple marginal upgrades taken together are often multiplicative, not summed. Greater than the sum of it's parts, as it were.
____________________________
Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.

Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.

Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right


kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
#148 May 15 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,890 posts
The airlixer augments start out pretty cheap and reasonable but explode in costs, it becomes one of those "do you really want the best" questions. Rank 2 provides a +8/4 with Rank 5 being +10/5, after that you get your third stat but the cost per upgrade spirals. After rank 10 (12/8/5) it's stupidly expensive. From what I can see you want to get the base pieces and upgrade them all to rank 5~7 or so before you start trying to max one out.
#149 May 22 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
Darqflame's Peon
ZAM Administrator
****
6,096 posts
Akihiko Matsui wrote:

Matsui here.

I’d like to once again thank you all for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and coin weapons.
I’ve read over all of the feedback, both for and against, and have taken it into consideration.

As it would appear that pretty much all your feedback has been posted, I will be closing this thread and working on the below plans: (Most of it is from my original post)

• Perform revamps on relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
• The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
• Shield and instruments will not be included in these revamps.
• Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
• The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons.
• We will continue to look into unlocking the weapon skills from coin weapons further.


In regards to coin weapons, as we are only at the stage where we are considering the basic direction to do this, we will continue to look into this due to the fact that it needs additional scrutiny.

Once we’ve solidified all the plans for the weapon revamps and the result of our discussions for coin weapons, I will be sure to let you all know.

Thank you very much.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33458-Follow-up-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-Walk-of-Echoes-Weapons?p=437742#post437742
#150 May 22 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
4,864 posts
Good work Matsui.
____________________________
Carbuncle


#151 May 22 2013 at 3:47 PM Rating: Default
***
2,112 posts
If I am reading into it, the revamp will be straight up damage increase no trial needed for 99 and above.
____________________________
90drk/90sch/61thf/60war/54rdm/40nin/44sam/
Relic Scythe Finished
Aegis Currency Finished
Drk Job Profile
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?38156

Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 306 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (306)