Level 99 R/M/E and WoE Weapons Follow

Not even remotely close to true. R/E/M only accounts for 100% of the R/E/M Parts Industry. R/E/M Parts sales may take a hit, but the rest of the economy will find it's own way to stabilize and people will not just "stop" making R/E/M as a whole because there will always be people that just do it for the sake of doing it.

You can't realistically claim that 75% of the economy is worthless because something that accounts for 1-5% of the economy takes a dive.

Additionally, it doesn't make sense to cry about new, more affordable Cell Phones coming out just because they make your old Cell Phones intentional obsolete, even if you paid a lot for that Cell Phone initially. We see this real world analogy just about every-other year. And if anything "breaks" the economy, it's government stepping in and ******** with capitalism, preventing growth for the sake of preserving a "cherry picked" avenue to "bail out", which is essentially what happens every time they take old gear and make it "relevant" again.

So far the only sound argument "for" the growth of R/E/M continuing (which S/E already "basically" said they are doing) is "Because S/E". Just because a company has always given "free upgrades" to a product doesn't mean they'll continue to do so in the future. Eventually that company will need to take on either a service-based model or tiered pay-to-upgrade path to survive... and that's basic economics... that you brought into the conversation... so don't cry about it.

Re:ChaChaJa
Pretty much that. Also, something that hasn't really come through in the above posts is the magnitude of the change. SE added craftable weapons that were 30-50% higher DPS than the nearest pre-patch alternatives (level 99 RMEs). This is not a small change. Imagine the best DD that you've ever seen. Maybe s/he always parses 25-30% in your groups. Now they parse 30~40%. The gap between these weapons and the next-best alternatives added in the patch (which most people still won't be able to get because it requires alliance clears of hard NMs) is something like 20%. So yes, your current level 90~99 RMEs do have a place in the new hierarchy. That place is called "the bottom."

Now, apart from the fact that the new exclusive/expensive weapons will further stratify the DD hierarchy (if you didn't like RME shouts, you'll hate the new ones), these weapons will dramatically change both the difficulty of old content and the strategies for new content. For instance, Magic, Ranged, and Pet damage sources got very little out of this patch relatively. If Melee damage was beating them before, it's demolishing them now. The proposed magic damage changes would have created an interesting balance of melee/magic damage before. Now they don't even come close to being sufficient.

Additionally, (as mentioned in the post above), there are massive economic ramifications of suddenly dropping the bottom out of the RME item market. SE has used the demand for RMEs to motivate the last two years of content. Abyssea (Empyreans), Voidwatch (Empyreans), Dynamis Reboot (Relics), Salvage Reboot (Mythics), Nyzul Isle Reboot (~Mythics), Einherjar Reboot (Mythics). They were not the only reason to do those events, but they certainly were *a* reason. With demand for Dynamis Currency/HMPs/Alexandrite crashing, what will people farm? With all the lowman content suddenly invalidated, what will players that don't have an 18-man LS do? Furthermore, what does Adoulin offer them at all? Will they just grind Bayld and collect the Traditional Armor sets for funsies? Will they continue to make their Relics, Mythics, and Empyreans that are crushed into oblivion by the new weapons?

I don't think so. I think they'll get bored of doing nothing and try to do the new content in shout group, which will be unsuccessful. Then I think they'll quit.

Edited, May 3rd 2013 9:03am by Byrthnoth

Strawman. What you are arguing isn't something that's been contested, so you've just responded to a non-issue.



Tell me what's worse, pride in accomplisments (which I haven't been boasting about as you claim, but we've already established that you're not responding to points made, just points you want to respond to), or blatant lack of sympathy for the frustration of others:



Also, tell me where were you during the 2003-2011 era when the rate of "new changes" to the game was comparatively non-existent. Did you clamor for Sky, Ground King, Dynamis, and Limbus to be replaced? How about the nearly 2 years of lack of changes to the game that were known as WoTG? That's the argument if you want to respond to something I'm saying.

Edited, May 3rd 2013 11:07am by TheBarrister

I had quit about one year after our entire linkshell acquired nearly everything sky had to offer. The lack of change in the game is (and should be, in an MMO) more than enough reason to stop paying for a game (not playing, but paying - I still enjoyed the company of old friends, but at some point you need to put a value on your dollar).

I've been an on-again off-again player for many years because of the hills-and-valleys FFXI has had to offer when it comes to interesting new content, and though I am a huge fan of the game (and series in general) I won't throw money at it for the sake of throwing money at it. It is in the game's best interest for everyone to take this approach, as paying to play a game you don't find enjoyable just breeds a less enjoyable game (and a waste of what could otherwise be time spent actually enjoying something).

There's this old movie (I forget exactly what it it's called, I watched it like 15 years ago) where ape-men invade earth and cage up / enslave the humans. In an attempt to monitor the humans and learn what they like, they set one free. The man who was set free thinks he has a chance to escape, so he hides in the dark corners of hallways and despite stores of food being nearby, he opts to kill and eat a rat so the invaders don't catch him stealing their food. The end result is that all the humans are fed rats because the invaders are lead to believe that's what humans want, afterall, when set free, that's what they went for.

What I'm getting at is that MMO's are largely a "lets see what the people like and cater to it" sort of experiment, so when people do these three year crazy-rediculous grinds for items, yes, it's likely that they will allow those items to be upgraded, because they cater to what they see players doing, but they will also introduce more / similar grinding because after-all, that's what people must like! If you want to see change you have to opt to "not" participate in these sort of things. That sometimes means taking a break from the game, choosing to do something else in the game, or playing another game all together.

When I first started this game I was a teenager and I whined about how rediculous it was to do some of the earlier limit break quests... but times have changed and generally speaking you won't really hear me ******** about difficulty in the game anymore, because it pretty much has no difficulty. However, you will see me plead for change that I believe will better the game.

As far as feeling sorry for people... I look forward to any moment I get to spend with my wife or dog or friends after work, and any moment I get to spend playing games with those same people, but if someone chooses a path of near-solitude for a tremendous amount of time for the sake of bettering only themselves, then is so prideful that they come in to boast and complain about how much work they did on their own to be better than everyone else... I DO feel sorry for them... but not in the way that you are hoping and pleading for, instead I am sad for you in the sense that I think "wow, that guy's priorities are REALLY messed up... I hope his personal life takes a change for the better".

Whatttt? I'll be watching Family Matters tonight in spite of that comment.

Steve Urkel is awesome.

(if you notice I also said I like to play games with them, but I'd never put them through the rediculous grind of helping me get a 99 relic... that's something people really have to set out on their own to accomplish, and lets face it, they are neglecting their friends and family when they do, and if it was "super fun to do", we wouldn't really have people complaining that all that "work" is now irreverent now would we?).

Edited, May 3rd 2013 1:01pm by FUJILIVES

By your own logic then people must want the "crazy-rediculous grind items" otherwise they would be doing what you said, which is playing a different game. Now I understand this isn't what everyone wants, but is it that hard to realize that some people actually play this game because they prefer that type of content to the "gear carousel" that is WoW or the like? People are voting with their subscription money, and from the sounds of it on some other forums, they are going to vote no by quitting if SE moves FFXI towards the carousel model.

I don't see how they made all the prior content obsolete. People are up in arms over the weapons, not the armor. There are a host of events in the last ten years that are still relevant because the new gear, while nice, does not invalidate all prior armor like the weapons might.

Yeah, BST still is going to want Monster Gloves +2 (for example) - nothing in the expansion outdoes force-spawning your pet at level. If I paid more attention/thought about it more, I am sure I could find other examples.

Personally, like most other filthy casuals, this stuff isn't going to change how I play significantly - except for maybe once they adjust skirmish (increasing drops of PI pieces or whatever) and once my friends get around to doing it, I will have the opportunity to get weapons that might let me play a DD without having to do years of boring grinding. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

Or if I play a support job/mage (like I've been doing mostly forever) I might actually get a drop that lets me move outside of that pidgeonhole I've been trapped in because I don't like grinding gil/collecting toenails

If those weapons are super out of reach (though I am not seeing anything to suggest that if my more decently geared friends worked with me we couldn't clear at least skirmish) I'll just derp along doing my thing like I always have.

I gave up farming dynabyss awhile ago because of dropping prices and annoying/aggressive competition, so... if currency drops and people stop farming it so much I might actually consider building an Aegis or Ghorn (both of which are/will be top still at least for awhile) probably not though. I really hate grinding gil/collecting items. I would rather fight drop rates on semi-interesting boss battles than fight boredom.



Edited, May 3rd 2013 10:57am by Olorinus

You essentially cherry-picked the two mobs/events most tied to R/M/E, Dynamis and Qilin, which I agree will be rendered (partially) obsolete, but there's a lot more from the last 10 years that hasn't been rendered obsolete:

ADL/Dynamis Currency I'll give you, but people will still farm for the Relic +2 Forgotten items etc. and perhaps one or two Arch Bosses (Jeuno/Tav). Some of that armor is still useful with +2'ing and XP trials (particularly that COR piece that increases odds of 1hr reset).

Qilin is dead, but people will still farm VW for glowy bodies, Rubeus gear, Athos gear, Ogier's gear, etc.

People will still farm Neo-Nyzul.

People will still farm Empyrean Armor in Abyssea.

People will still farm Odin v1 for E. Body.

People will still farm Odin v2 for Laeradr gear and the abjurations.

People will still farm Legion for lucrative mats, the abjurations which now that NQ gear can be augmented will be newly sought after, and the few good pieces like Duplus, Wrathwing, Wurrukatte, Esper Earring, etc.

People might still farm PW for Tessera Saio (not 100% sure as I don't play COR).

People will still farm Salvage for the good Armor pieces.

People will still farm Limbus for the good Limbus pieces.

People will still farm Meeble Burrows for the good pieces, and the fact that I believe there is an Umarghk mat used to synth one of the new weapons.




Edited, May 3rd 2013 2:45pm by Poltergeist27

My point is they are rendered obsolete economically. If you reread my posts I keep talking about the economic impact of this. When I say this damages the game it's an economic argument. Explain to me what they've added to the game with SoA that replaces the portion of the economy that stands to die with R/M/E? I'm not talking gear, I'm talking CONSUMABLES that people can farm to make gil. I'm saying that a pillar of the economy was just rendered obsolete. The single biggest market in the game was consumable items used to upgrade R/M/E. If all those items that people were farming literally by the hundreds of thousands are no longer worth farming, how do you replace that VOLUME of consumables that's been rendered obsolete? I don't see it. Everyone keeps saying people are butthurt about weapons, but the major concern I see is the long term health of the economy because you can't just knock a leg out from under a table and expect the table to remain stable...

If your only point is economic, then of course I'd agree with you. Your original paragraph said:



Then your response talked about manhours farming gear vs. farming gil. So I was just replying from a content-level perspective (farming gear). All your other points I agree with.

Edited, May 3rd 2013 4:00pm by Poltergeist27

yeah, I never touched them because turning my game time into a second job never appealed to me. You're right, I don't have a problem with that. Also, I sincerely doubt I'll be getting the best of the best anytime close to when the hardcore folks do. Why does it bother you that I'd be able to play a job I've been interested in but discouraged from trying because it was gated by 1000 hours of gil grinding?