The Embrava and Perfect Defense Adjustments :: World of Warcraft

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#27 Oct 24 2012 at 1:04 PM Rating: Default

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TheBarrister wrote:

RaiseIII wrote:

TheBarrister wrote:

This imaginary field full of butterflies when you used to walk uphill in the snow 20 miles to get to your exp party never existed.
[/i]

Obviously you never xp'd at the upper Demon camp in Ul[tab] Range. It was FORTY miles uphill in the snow.

I certainly did. That was part of how I got my Thief to 75 because I wasn't invited to Arrow and Mana burns. However, I had no delusions that it was a great thing and that it was full of butterflies. It was crap.

That was a fun camp, assuming you made it to camp alive.

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#28 Oct 24 2012 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good

axciom

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Something has to give, getting to floor 100 in NNI will be even remotely possible. They're going with Astrariums...not gonna cut it guys.

Does not bode well for mine and all of my friends' waning interest in this game...

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#29 Oct 24 2012 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent

Vlorsutes

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Wint wrote:

Professor Shock Vlorsutes wrote:

eldelphia wrote:

You can't hit 600 summoning magic skill right now. In fact not even close. I wonder if they are considering another level cap raise for Adoulin...

I think it's probably just to give an example of how it will scale really. Right now I can hit about 521 with gear, merits, and capped skill, and that's excluding only a handful of gear pieces in total. I'm missing 3 from a Summoning Earring (which will probably shoot up in price soon), 2 from a perfectly augmented Aptus Earring, 2 from Ngen Seraweels from the Paramount Botulus in Legion, and 5 from a Kirin's Pole with the max Summoning Magic skill on it (with Byakko's Scraps).

Sometimes your posts scare the crap out of me.

How? >_>

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#30 Oct 24 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent

Fynlar

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Quote:

You can't hit 600 summoning magic skill right now. In fact not even close. I wonder if they are considering another level cap raise for Adoulin...

I'm sure they're not. It's a lot like how they said after nerfing Yuly's and Falcorr's TH that they would be able to increase their TH back up by equipping "Pet: Treasure Hunter+" stuff. What people got from that was that they would be introducing pet TH gear, but they were merely using that as an example and never actually had any plans to introduce such gear (which is a move that got them into quite some hot water on their forums)

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#31 Oct 24 2012 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent

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NNI got nerfed pretty hard but it's not as bad as people making it out to be. Instead of 2xSCH your now bringing BRD + SCH. The SCH will perp Haste on everyone along with AoE Regen V while the BRD needs to alternate NT double March's with regular double march's. The BRD will be staying at the pole while the SCH runs around curing people. You'll still have stupid high haste in either case. It's harder but not impossible, definitely a better use of time to farm floor 80 x5 for most groups. NNI has too many "***** you" rolls of the dice as is, so setting the bar lower may be a better long term goal.

Edited, Oct 24th 2012 11:16pm by saevellakshmi

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#32 Oct 25 2012 at 3:09 AM Rating: Decent

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Runespider wrote:

These 2 abilities were completely and utterly stupid, nerfing these and a few others things are needed if they are serious about carrying on with this game, surprised it took them as long as it did to take action on these (considered they nerfed Widfire and Ukon last year). Perfect defence was one of the worst things they ever added to the game, I know why they added it (AV) but it ended up being the answer to everything.

They better fix the stupid content that was made with these abilities being part of the game with it though.

This shows they plan to actually try to fix the game and make it work as it used to again. Problem of course though is if the players having had all these things (100%dmg mitigation with multiple smns, huge dmg increases with SCH and gil fountains) are now ready to have a real MMO again, where most people are poor most of the time and most players aren't good enough to clear endgame content. The last "ok, fu** this" straw for me was a nerf (Widlfire nerf), same could happen here for a lot of other players.

When did they nerf wildfire? It was uko's fury and victory smite that they reduced the critical hit rate on, not wildfire from what I remember.

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#33 Oct 25 2012 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good

Melphina

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Something has to give, getting to floor 100 in NNI will be even remotely possible. They're going with Astrariums...not gonna cut it guys.

Does not bode well for mine and all of my friends' waning interest in this game...

Am I the only one looking forward to the NINI changes? I never bothered with NINI at all until now because I don't have two sch and four elite DD ready to bust their way up to floor 100 with me, nor do any of my friends or I use any of the popular third party hacks that make 100 easier. You act like even WITH all these things floor 100 wins are guaranteed, but they're not. Win ratios may be higher than 20%, but they're not 100% by any means. Call me whatever derogatory name you wish, but I actually LIKE the concept of doing runs and saving progress toward gear. In abyssea you can farm a few seals or +2 items and know your time wasn't wasted. Five gold astarium is a similar feat. It'll take longer than seals or +2, but the gear is friggin awesome, and you'll be getting some +3 gear directly as well which is still pretty sweet and most are great temporary substitutes for the 100 piece in the meantime. I know floor 80 won't be 100% either under the new system, but it'll be more realistic for most people than floor 100 ever was.

Now what S-E needs to do is listen to players and lower mobs offensive stats to a level where they're managable. Quoting Saevellakshmi from the other thread,

Quote:

While I agree with your sentiment, currently no other strategy is viable then killing **** as fast as possible while making yourself immune to it's abilities. When the boss monster is equipped with a JP button that instantly kills anyone around it who isn't sporting an Aegis or Ochain with a maxed PDT/MDT set, then the only way to win is to circumvent the damage system (PD / Fanatics).
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Reducing their HP by 10~15% won't change anything about the fight. It's the offensive power of everything that needs to be lowered.
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Our HP didn't go up by much, neither did our defensive abilities (outside of PD). NM's on the other hand have had their offensive abilities more then doubled (tripled if you take into account the level differences). It's become a situation where you simply can't survive without beating the system itself.

This is the problem, not the way players have dealt with it. I agree It sucks that embrava took such a huge hit. I never like to see people get the nerf bat, but embrava was totally busted and you know it. Akinori has stated that he plans to rework events where embrava and PD were core strategies and change not only the JA's, but the events as well. If reducing embrava and PD to more reasonable levels means that Legion becomes impossible (which it just may) he will have to fix that blasted mass player one shotting crap. That would be beneficial for everyone, and if S-E actually learns something in the process and remembers not to go over the top in future end game NM stats rather than create even more Legion like offense the game will be a much better place. As Akinori said when he spoke about players utilizing embrava and PD as their sole strategy, "it should never have to come to that in the first place". And it shouldn't. If they fix the mob's offensive power alongside the proposed embrava/PD I think a lot more people will be happy with the game than pissed off.

TLDR version: I like the NINI changes, and I'm also fine with the embrava/PD tweaks so long as they actually fix the unwinnable events as well. If S-E lowers the bar for gear progression to a realistic level players will have more stuff as a whole and be overall happier. I'm looking forward to seeing what he changes next to coincide with the nerfs.

Edited, Oct 25th 2012 9:57am by Melphina

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#34 Oct 25 2012 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good

axciom

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Melphina wrote:

Quote:

Something has to give, getting to floor 100 in NNI will be even remotely possible. They're going with Astrariums...not gonna cut it guys.

Does not bode well for mine and all of my friends' waning interest in this game...

Am I the only one looking forward to the NINI changes? I never bothered with NINI at all until now because I don't have two sch and four elite DD ready to bust their way up to floor 100 with me, nor do any of my friends or I use any of the popular third party hacks that make 100 easier. You act like even WITH all these things floor 100 wins are guaranteed, but they're not. Win ratios may be higher than 20%, but they're not 100% by any means. Call me whatever derogatory name you wish, but I actually LIKE the concept of doing runs and saving progress toward gear. In abyssea you can farm a few seals or +2 items and know your time wasn't wasted. Five gold astarium is a similar feat. It'll take longer than seals or +2, but the gear is friggin awesome, and you'll be getting some +3 gear directly as well which is still pretty sweet and most are great temporary substitutes for the 100 piece in the meantime. I know floor 80 won't be 100% either under the new system, but it'll be more realistic for most people than floor 100 ever was.

Perhaps I misspoke a bit. Maybe? I agree, 100% was never guaranteed due to the RNG having so very many opportunities to ***** you over in your climb. I also loved the original Nyzul Isle, and never like dthe idea of a 1-100 climb.

With these changes, even with the same setup you mentioned I honestly think it's going to be tougher to hit floor 80 than it was before to hit floor 100, under the current conditions the event has. Then you have to do it 4 more times, provided you actually take down the boss in time. Which was kind of my point.

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#35 Oct 25 2012 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent

TheBarrister

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Under the new system, if you are 100% successful, you will get one piece of gear every 5 days. I think most of the current groups that have been winning will be able to do this, but every now and then (let's say 10% of the time for sake of example) you'll get extremely unlucky, and this is for the most elite groups (4 excellent DD, Brd, Sch). So you're getting 2 pieces of gear every 12 days.

Now let's talk about what this means for the masses of people that haven't really gotten up to the elite level, in terms of group formation or even gear (e.g., not 4 = Rag DRK + Ukon WAR). I assume a generous estimate of 50% win rate for 80 floor. Your gear progression becomes 1 piece of gear every 10 days. So after 150 consecutive days of NNI, you can expect to be done. This is of course after an initial honeymoon period where you learn to interact with your group, let's call that 20 days.

This isn't too bad but it's quite a bit different than completing the content 30 days because you're able to get 3-5 pieces per week.

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#36 Oct 25 2012 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good

Seriha

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Well, that assumes the not-leet group would've even been able to 100 with consistency once they got over their honeymoon. Way I look at it, people should be capping at 80 if they're not confident. If you a hit point where you're hitting 80 a large majority of the time (80%+) with anywhere from 8-15 minutes to spare, you could try shooting for 100 and see what happens. It might not be the most eloquent example of "choose your difficulty" game play out there, but choosing either is by no means permanent. You learn, smart +3 choices may improve you, and you move on.

Though, among other suggestions for NNI tweaks, I would like to see a means for prior gear to upgrade. So, if you do get a +3, through some trial you can eventually get the HQ. I'd rather avoid including Alexandrite in this process, but I'm also feeling it should be a bit more involved than Kill X trials, but also not at like 1500 HMP or even 75 turn-ins for Emp weapons.

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#37 Oct 26 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good

Szabo

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Camate wrote:

Greetings everyone.

I have some feedback from the development team to share in regards to all the response we have been receiving about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.

Adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava

At the current time, we would like to proceed with the changes as stated.

The main idea behind the adjustments and the plan is as Producer Akihiko Matsui has mentioned:

Akhiko Matsui wrote:

For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.

In other words, currently we have been giving consideration towards Perfect Defense and Embrava when making adjustments to content and monster strength. Likewise we have had to scale back new equipment stats and abilities for other jobs for the same reason.

In the event that we were to continue at this pace, content and monsters would be created where the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava would be ineffective, so in order to redraw the standard values for content and equipment we will be making these adjustments.

We apologize for how late these adjustments are being made.

Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey Adjustments

The reduction in the amount of Astrarium needed is a boon for reaching each of the main floors, but in addition to this we will be making the below adjustments in order to increase the chances of reaching these floors.
*These adjustments have yet to be implemented on the Test Server

Increase the cap value for warping to ??? floor

When randomly warping, the highest value will be increase from 9 to 11, and the average amount of floors that need to be clear in order to reach floor 100 will be reduced.

Adjustments to lamp response speed

In order to prevent any impediments to the time attack element, we will be reducing the wait time.

- After â€œsame timeâ€ lamps have been operated, the wait time until they can be checked again will be reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
- The time until â€œorderâ€ lamps judge the correct answer will be reduced from 12 seconds to 7 seconds.

Astraria adjustments
Currently, the below changes have been made on the Test Server:

 
Astraria in Possession  Astraria in Possession 
Before Implementation  After Implementation

 
0ï½ž4	â†’	0 
5ï½ž9	â†’	1 
10ï½ž14	â†’	2 
15ï½ž19	â†’	3 
20ï½ž24	â†’	4 
25	â†’	5

We will next be changing it to the below:

 
Astraria in Possession  Astraria in Possession 
Before Implementation  After Implementation

 
0      â†’	0 
1ï½ž6	â†’	1 
7ï½ž12	â†’	2 
13ï½ž18	â†’	3 
19ï½ž24	â†’	4 
25	â†’	5

Changes to jobs that can equip Powder Boots

As an experiment, we will be making this item equippable by all jobs.
*This adjustment is not reflected in todayâ€™s Test Server update.

Legion and Einherjar adjustments

With the adjustments to Embrava and the scaling back of its boons to offensive capabilities, it will take longer to defeat enemies. In regards to Perfect Defense, with the effect duration reduction, it's important to defeat enemies quickly.

We are closing the gap of the increased time variation by reducing an enemy's HP.

We know that there are a variety of reasons as to why enemies need to be defeated in a shorter amount of time, and it varies by monster and content, and we believe it's very important to look into all of these individually.

While there were many comments touching on this, we would like to keep this separate from the feedback regarding Perfect Defense and Embrava. (Please know we are not ignoring your suggestions, we just need to look into them one by one based on

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28187-Adjustments-to-Embrava-and-Perfect-Defense?p=372952#post372952

Edited, Oct 26th 2012 4:18pm by Szabo

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#38 Oct 26 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good

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Quote:

Increase the cap value for warping to ??? floor

When randomly warping, the highest value will be increase from 9 to 11, and the average amount of floors that need to be clear in order to reach floor 100 will be reduced.

Adjustments to lamp response speed

In order to prevent any impediments to the time attack element, we will be reducing the wait time.

- After â€œsame timeâ€ lamps have been operated, the wait time until they can be checked again will be reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
- The time until â€œorderâ€ lamps judge the correct answer will be reduced from 12 seconds to 7 seconds.

This at least looks promising for the NNI compensation. I was just about to start seeing if I could merc some gear. I am hoping I will still be able to do that after the update.

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#39 Oct 26 2012 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent

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It seems like they are considering the implications of weakening these two abilities, and frankly, I am happy to see them talk about reducing recast times on abilities overall. It might make for some slightly twichy-er gameplay. I'd like them to add macro-able gear sets directly into the game so that macros could be less hellish. It wouldn't allow for botting/scripting in terms of actions to allow us to make an alias for a gear set and refer that in /equip calls.

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#40 Oct 26 2012 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent

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