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The Embrava and Perfect Defense AdjustmentsFollow

#1 Oct 23 2012 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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This was posted earlier today over at Japanese side of the Official Forums but over at BG, Slcyer of Fenrir translated it early so here it is:
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Job Ability Adjustments: Tabula Rasa & Perfect Defense

Hello!

Prior to reducing the recast time of the existing SP abilities and introducing new SP abilities, we believe that we must revise the effects of Tabula Rasa and Perfect Defense. The adjustment is planned to be introduced in this week's test server update, but we want to convey the changes ahead of that so that we can begin gathering your feedback.

Perfect Defense

**Duration: The duration will be reduced from 90 seconds to 30 seconds +1 second for each 20 summoning magic skill. For example, at 600 summoning magic skill, the duration would be 60 seconds (30 + 30 seconds).
**Effect: No change

Tabula Rasa

The effects of the white magic "Embrava" will be adjusted as follows:

**Duration: Reduced from 5 minutes to 90 seconds.
**Haste Effect: Reduced to 15% + 1% for each 20 enhancing skill. Maximum of +25% at 500 enhancing skill.
**Regain Effect: Changed to Refresh effect (the #/tick is the same as before, based on skill).

Since utilizing the above abilities has become mainstream in order to progress through certain battle content, we have planned to lower the difficulty of that content in accordance with this update.

Nyzul Isle

**The required number of astraria to replace with the next higher floor equipment will be reduced from 25 to 5. The number in possession will be divided by 5 and rounded down. The premise that floor 100 will only be reached through a combination of great skill and luck does not change. Since the reliance on the effect of Embrava will be reduced, we will relieve this by reducing the number of required astraria for floors below.

Legion

**Monster HP will be reduced by approximately 10%. All monsters will be included in this change. Since the progress as a whole will be faster but the support effects will be suppressed, we will maintain the 30 minute time limit, or keep it close.

Einherjar

**Odin's HP (Odin's Chamber II) will be reduced by approximately 10~15%. Since the battle with Odin is more than with just the monster itself, Legion is slightly different, so we will reduce Odin's HP by slightly more.

We believe that Embrava and Perfect Defense have been used very significantly in other situations as well, such as with Provenance Watcher and Arch Dynamis Lord, but since these are very short battles, we want to see how the difficulty of these fights changes with the ability adjustments above before we make any adjustments to the fight difficulty.

These adjustments have been made in order to reduce performance of certain abilities that were too strong, with a reliance moreso now than ever on certain jobs and abilities in battle strategies. The purpose of the content adjustment along with these ability adjustments is to allow other strategies to be formed so that these events are not impossible. While reflecting on the adjustments in the test server this week, please recognize that balancing the adjustments will continue, and we would appreciate any comments you may have.



Camate's Official Translation

Camate wrote:


Adjustments to Embrava and Perfect Defense

Greetings everyone!

As was previously mentioned, with the addition of the new special abilities as well as the shortening on the cool down timers for the current special abilities, we are planning to adjust the effects of both Embrava and Perfect Defense. The adjustments will be reflected in this week’s Test Server update, but I’d like to share the information with you beforehand.

Embrava:

Effect duration: Currently 5 minutes → Adjusted to 90 seconds
Haste: Currently 1% increase for every 15 enhancing skill points → Adjusted to 1% increase for every 20 enhancing skill points. Maximum of 25% at 500 skill
Regain Effect: While the value will remain unchanged, the Regain effect will be changed to Refresh.

Perfect Defense:

Effect duration: Currently 90 seconds → Adjusted to 30 seconds. +1 sec for every 20 summoning skill points, maximum of 60 seconds with 600 skill (30 seconds +30 seconds)
Effect: No change


Along with the above adjustments, the content that featured these abilities heavily into their strategies will see adjustments as well.

Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey

We'll be reducing the number of Astrariums necessary to exchange for equipment from 25 to 5.
*As a result of this, the number of Astrariums players have in possession will be reduced by 1/5.

The idea that you'll need some luck on your side to reach level 100 will not change. While we expect that the number of floors reachable and the frequency will decrease due to the adjustments to Embrava, we decided to balance this by reducing the number of Astrariums required for equipment.

Legion

Monster HP will be reduced by around 10%

This will be applied to all monsters, and adjusted so the overall pace will become faster making it possible to defeat close to the same amount of monsters as before within the 30 minutes time limit.

Einherjar

Odin's Chamber II: Odin's HP will be reduced by around 10-15%.

As this is different from Legion and only a single monster battle, we will be adjusting the HP on a slightly larger range.


Besides the above content, Perfect Defense and Embrava are utilized for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Watcher; however, the battle times for these monsters are relatively short, so we would like to monitor the battle situation at their current difficulty.

All of these adjustments will be implemented during the Test Server update this week, but we will continue to look at balance and make adjustments as needed.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28187-Adjustments-to-Embrava-and-Pefect-Defense?p=370978#post370978


Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 11:21am by Szabo

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 3:25pm by Szabo
#2 Oct 23 2012 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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holy crap they gave summoning magic skill a reason to exist

A nerf, but not as bad as it could have been.
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#3 Oct 23 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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Horrible change for SCH taking them from an essential part of many endgame type bosses/events and throwing them under the bus when compared to other mages. Swapping refresh for regain....really? Too much, too far and too bad for us.

SMN nerf not so bad.

Gimping end game bosses is not the direction we should be taking.



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#4 Oct 23 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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NNI adjustment is pretty huge, IMO, and how the Asteria system should've been to begin with.
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#5 Oct 23 2012 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Well schs it was nice being invited, back to uselessness. Huge Nerf to the main reason for sch invitation, and also a nerf to Sch stunning due to the duration decrease and inability to cap magic haste now with just embrava + haste.

Also I love how they use 600 smn skill for their example. I don't know a single smn with 600 skill.

Reducing the monsters hp by 10-15% isn't really going to solve the problem because it is only part of the problem. Another major isssue is these NM spamming insanely damaging moves, thus they need to be killed fast with protection. If the NM wasn't doing 1000+ damage AoEs with tons of debuffs maybe players wouldn't have to rely on PD. If everything wasn't a zerg maybe people wouldn't have become so reliant on embrava.
#6 Oct 23 2012 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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While 600 is indeed a dumb number to propose since it's not feasible, it does leave me curious about what's down the pipe for Adoulin. Right now, stuff like Enhancing Magic's potencies cap at 500 skill with the only exception being Enspell's MACC. Can we expect more gear with even higher +skill values? A means to +3 stuff like Emp/Relic? It'd certainly give a carrot to chase, and if done closer to Abyssea-style, would leave a lot of people content. But skills and abilities related to them do need some adjustments if that's the direction SE wants to head.
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#7 Oct 23 2012 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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weshouldhavethoughtaboutthisbeforeitbecamemainstream wrote:

These adjustments have been made in order to reduce performance of certain abilities that were too strong, with a reliance moreso now than ever on certain jobs and abilities in battle strategies. The purpose of the content adjustment along with these ability adjustments is to allow other strategies to be formed so that these events are not impossible. While reflecting on the adjustments in the test server this week, please recognize that balancing the adjustments will continue, and we would appreciate any comments you may have.


Maybe you should design multiple strategies that are possible first, then when the ones that are too powerful are the only ones used you can discuss with your customers nerfing the way they use your product, then if the customers agree you could possibly implement it.

This is different from designing a product where only one or two possible uses exist, obliterating those uses, then saying it was because there was lots of other uses.

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#8 Oct 23 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
NNI adjustment is pretty huge, IMO, and how the Asteria system should've been to begin with.


Except that it will probably be harder to reach floor 80 w/o Embrava than it was to reach floor 100 with it. And you need to do it 5 times now. Without more adjustments to NNI, floor 100 is pretty much unobtainable.

And SCH is done for most end game events now. This is exactly why I wanted the job to be useful for something other than Embrava because the nerf was inevitable. It might still get invites to NNI and stun duty at other events but that's about it.

SE should increase the duration. 90 seconds is just ridiculous. And with Regain being removed for Refresh (which is useless), it would be great if they finally got around to fixing Aldoquium.
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#9 Oct 23 2012 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eh, while random is random and can bone you at its whim, I'm inclined to believe that people were too quick to fall back to Embrava and write it off as the only way. 100 may very much be rarer and impossible to get now, but even with ****** luck, not having to traverse 20 floors in 3-7 random jumps does leave more time to focus on 80 if your group isn't top-tier. Not every floor is a Kill All, after all.

And if it does turn out that nobody hits 100 post-patch, maybe SE will actually insert time extensions related to NM kills or some other interactable, which also should've been there from the start. But I'd also be just as happy with future gear added to the game being better and people never having to set foot in NNI again.
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#10 Oct 23 2012 at 11:35 AM Rating: Default
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Maybe people can finally participate if they dont have a SMN or SCH now. Good times await.
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#11 Oct 23 2012 at 1:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eh, I think they will need to do more than that for NNI.
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#12 Oct 23 2012 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Maybe people can finally participate if they dont have a SMN or SCH now. Good times await.


Darn, there goes my SCH burning of NNI. Now I'll have to bring 4 DD's in addition to 2 SCH.Smiley: rolleyes
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#13 Oct 23 2012 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Welp, Embrava's pointless now; you might as well just bring a BRD to HQ Nyzul now if you feel like you need a support class. Why they saw it fit to neuter both the duration AND remove the regain, I have no idea.

PD will still be just as relied on as ever, just that the SMNs will need to have summoning skilled now for the duration to not be trash, basically bringing it in line with the rest of their buff BPs. Depending on the event you might need two SMNs in situations where you otherwise would have only needed one. Other than that, nothing's gonna change in that regard.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 4:32pm by Fynlar
#14 Oct 23 2012 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Eh, while random is random and can bone you at its whim, I'm inclined to believe that people were too quick to fall back to Embrava and write it off as the only way. 100 may very much be rarer and impossible to get now, but even with sh*tty luck, not having to traverse 20 floors in 3-7 random jumps does leave more time to focus on 80 if your group isn't top-tier. Not every floor is a Kill All, after all.

Except you can still overshoot floor 80, which was the major stopping-block (or lack of one, actually) in hitting floor 100 for the longest time.
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#15 Oct 23 2012 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Except you can still overshoot floor 80, which was the major stopping-block (or lack of one, actually) in hitting floor 100 for the longest time.


That's why you use the stopper feature to prevent your group from going higher than floor 80. Sure your run will end after the floor 80 boss, but with the embrava nerf you won't be making it to floor 100 anyway.

Edited, Oct 23rd 2012 9:18pm by Melphina
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#16 Oct 24 2012 at 4:04 AM Rating: Decent
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These 2 abilities were completely and utterly stupid, nerfing these and a few others things are needed if they are serious about carrying on with this game, surprised it took them as long as it did to take action on these (considered they nerfed Widfire and Ukon last year). Perfect defence was one of the worst things they ever added to the game, I know why they added it (AV) but it ended up being the answer to everything.

They better fix the stupid content that was made with these abilities being part of the game with it though.

This shows they plan to actually try to fix the game and make it work as it used to again. Problem of course though is if the players having had all these things (100%dmg mitigation with multiple smns, huge dmg increases with SCH and gil fountains) are now ready to have a real MMO again, where most people are poor most of the time and most players aren't good enough to clear endgame content. The last "ok, fu** this" straw for me was a nerf (Widlfire nerf), same could happen here for a lot of other players.
#17 Oct 24 2012 at 5:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Melphina wrote:
Quote:
Except you can still overshoot floor 80, which was the major stopping-block (or lack of one, actually) in hitting floor 100 for the longest time.


That's why you use the stopper feature to prevent your group from going higher than floor 80. Sure your run will end after the floor 80 boss, but with the embrava nerf you won't be making it to floor 100 anyway.

Probably true that you'd drop the stopper to 80 with a now 'normal' run, but consider a floor 100 win would be equivalent to ten floor 80 wins (then again, it was equivalent to 50 before so...)

I just forgot the details that you could set it to a target is all.

Edited, Oct 24th 2012 4:02am by Raelix
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#18 Oct 24 2012 at 6:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Runespider wrote:
These 2 abilities were completely and utterly stupid, nerfing these and a few others things are needed if they are serious about carrying on with this game, surprised it took them as long as it did to take action on these (considered they nerfed Widfire and Ukon last year). Perfect defence was one of the worst things they ever added to the game, I know why they added it (AV) but it ended up being the answer to everything.

They better fix the stupid content that was made with these abilities being part of the game with it though.

This shows they plan to actually try to fix the game and make it work as it used to again. Problem of course though is if the players having had all these things (100%dmg mitigation with multiple smns, huge dmg increases with SCH and gil fountains) are now ready to have a real MMO again, where most people are poor most of the time and most players aren't good enough to clear endgame content. The last "ok, fu** this" straw for me was a nerf (Widlfire nerf), same could happen here for a lot of other players.


The way the game has always worked is that players find an optimal solution to the problem and the sheeple copy them. Penta Spam > MNK burns > Mana & Arrow Burns > TP Burns > Throw more BLMs at it > etc. This imaginary field full of butterflies when you used to walk uphill in the snow 20 miles to get to your exp party never existed.

The only thing nerfs show is that the developer did not properly think about their content before implementing it.

The only thing nerfs accomplish is that they have a high chance of ******* off your loyal customers, thus driving away profits, thus possibly killing (not reviving) the game. I know I'm much more likely to tell potential subscribers that are my friends that this game is now headed the wrong direction rather than the right one.



Edited, Oct 24th 2012 8:49am by TheBarrister
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#19 Oct 24 2012 at 7:51 AM Rating: Default
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When I see people complain about PD and Emb, I'm reminded of the useless mouth breathers on the news complaining about *** marriage. That the presence of one play style destroys all others. If you don't like playing that way, then don't, but don't complain to mom and dad.
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#20 Oct 24 2012 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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You can't hit 600 summoning magic skill right now. In fact not even close. I wonder if they are considering another level cap raise for Adoulin...
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#21 Oct 24 2012 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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TheBarrister wrote:
Runespider wrote:
These 2 abilities were completely and utterly stupid, nerfing these and a few others things are needed if they are serious about carrying on with this game, surprised it took them as long as it did to take action on these (considered they nerfed Widfire and Ukon last year). Perfect defence was one of the worst things they ever added to the game, I know why they added it (AV) but it ended up being the answer to everything.

They better fix the stupid content that was made with these abilities being part of the game with it though.

This shows they plan to actually try to fix the game and make it work as it used to again. Problem of course though is if the players having had all these things (100%dmg mitigation with multiple smns, huge dmg increases with SCH and gil fountains) are now ready to have a real MMO again, where most people are poor most of the time and most players aren't good enough to clear endgame content. The last "ok, fu** this" straw for me was a nerf (Widlfire nerf), same could happen here for a lot of other players.


The way the game has always worked is that players find an optimal solution to the problem and the sheeple copy them. Penta Spam > MNK burns > Mana & Arrow Burns > TP Burns > Throw more BLMs at it > etc. This imaginary field full of butterflies when you used to walk uphill in the snow 20 miles to get to your exp party never existed.

The only thing nerfs show is that the developer did not properly think about their content before implementing it.

The only thing nerfs accomplish is that they have a high chance of ******* off your loyal customers, thus driving away profits, thus possibly killing (not reviving) the game. I know I'm much more likely to tell potential subscribers that are my friends that this game is now headed the wrong direction rather than the right one.



Edited, Oct 24th 2012 8:49am by TheBarrister


They have always nerfed things that they deem too good. In this case they have done so again. This reminds me of the Bloodweapon nerf that all but destroyed Kclub DRK zergs. Whether the nerf was good or bad remains to be seen. However it now requires the community to develop a new tactic.


Edited, Oct 24th 2012 11:27am by rdmcandie
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#22 Oct 24 2012 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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TheBarrister wrote:
This imaginary field full of butterflies when you used to walk uphill in the snow 20 miles to get to your exp party never existed.
[/i]


Obviously you never xp'd at the upper Demon camp in Ul[tab] Range. It was FORTY miles uphill in the snow.
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#23 Oct 24 2012 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
eldelphia wrote:
You can't hit 600 summoning magic skill right now. In fact not even close. I wonder if they are considering another level cap raise for Adoulin...


I think it's probably just to give an example of how it will scale really. Right now I can hit about 521 with gear, merits, and capped skill, and that's excluding only a handful of gear pieces in total. I'm missing 3 from a Summoning Earring (which will probably shoot up in price soon), 2 from a perfectly augmented Aptus Earring, 2 from Ngen Seraweels from the Paramount Botulus in Legion, and 5 from a Kirin's Pole with the max Summoning Magic skill on it (with Byakko's Scraps).
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#24 Oct 24 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Professor Shock Vlorsutes wrote:
eldelphia wrote:
You can't hit 600 summoning magic skill right now. In fact not even close. I wonder if they are considering another level cap raise for Adoulin...


I think it's probably just to give an example of how it will scale really. Right now I can hit about 521 with gear, merits, and capped skill, and that's excluding only a handful of gear pieces in total. I'm missing 3 from a Summoning Earring (which will probably shoot up in price soon), 2 from a perfectly augmented Aptus Earring, 2 from Ngen Seraweels from the Paramount Botulus in Legion, and 5 from a Kirin's Pole with the max Summoning Magic skill on it (with Byakko's Scraps).


Sometimes your posts scare the crap out of me.
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#25 Oct 24 2012 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:

Hello!

As this topic has generated quite a large amount of feedback already, we will be doing our best to collect it all and deliver it to the development team.

I would like to, however, follow-up on a couple of things.

First, there is a question about the cap on summoning skill being 600 being a mistake; however, this is the correct number. While it might not be currently possible to reach this number, the development team set the cap to 600, so consider that there may be room to increase this in the future.

Next, keep in mind that these adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava were made with the idea that all special abilities’ cool down timers will be shortened. With that said, during this week’s Test Server update we are also planning on making adjustments so that the cool down timer on current and new special abilities will be halved. (We are also planning to make it possible to cut this time even further via equipment and merit points.)

We understand that these adjustments will change the usage of these abilities and may cause inconvenience to some, and we apologize for this. We would like to proceed with these adjustments carefully, so we will be looking closely at the feedback we receive. Also, we realize that there are a good amount of people who oppose these changes, but we would appreciate it if you could post specific feedback about what would be the preferred method for going about these changes.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28187-Adjustments-to-Embrava-and-Perfect-Defense?p=371824#post371824

Edited, Oct 24th 2012 5:54pm by Szabo
#26 Oct 24 2012 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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RaiseIII wrote:
TheBarrister wrote:
This imaginary field full of butterflies when you used to walk uphill in the snow 20 miles to get to your exp party never existed.
[/i]


Obviously you never xp'd at the upper Demon camp in Ul[tab] Range. It was FORTY miles uphill in the snow.


I certainly did. That was part of how I got my Thief to 75 because I wasn't invited to Arrow and Mana burns. However, I had no delusions that it was a great thing and that it was full of butterflies. It was crap.
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