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#1 Oct 20 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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So,

Last night, I was in Valkrum Dunes, just kinda chillin out and setting macros, killing random mobs because they looked at me funny and just being random. I see a group of adventurers killing an NM, and it sparked my immediate interest. Let me go ahead and put a little note in here. I have done zero VW, and don't know or understand the premise behind it, but as with anything else I have not done, I am interested, and when I see a group of people fighting an NM that is basically kicking thier asses, I am always more than willing to help. So, I offer the services of my 99BLM.

I switch jobs, join the party, and wait while they re-group, as they lost some people. This will come up shortly, as to how and why they lost warm bodies that were either interested as I was, or needed the fight for whatever reason, and were unable to satisfy either.

As I am sitting there, I notice the planar rift (I believe it is called) and everyone standing around it, so, again, out of curiousity, I decide to click it. Well, that's when it clicked: I may be of no use as I may not be able to fight this NM. I ask the alliance leader, who then proceeds to act like a total **** and tells my party leader to kick me from the party. I go ahead, instead, and remove myself, and then ask the guy why he had to act as he did, and he justified it by saying "I can act how I want when someone like you has no ******* clue". Apparently, you need stones for this, though, I still (until later today) have no clue what a Void Watch is. Apparently though, I was not the only person that ****** this guy off, nor was pretty much offended at his attitude, because as soon as I joined in, the conversation was already about someone being an ***, a ****, rude, and a few other things that I cannot remember, but long short, this guy is a world class douche bag. (Twistedsoul, I believe was his name). I will call him out in public, because I believe he is knowledgable, and has been playing for a while, and may even be from around the same time I joined (about 6 years ago). I hope someday to do a mission or two with him, assuming he is not a total *** and is all about being "In charge".

What has this done? It has, in fact, made me more curious, as to what this Void Watch exactly is, and where do I start and how do I do it effectively.

It has also raised other curious points. For example, why do parties not talk anymore? Why are Linkshells silent, even if the list has a dozen or more people? Why do people charge 10k for a teleport now? Why is it when I ask if someone needs help, whether it be pointedly toward one or a group, or a linkshell, or a friend, help is declined, and nobody else offers? Why is my 33 MNK only a 33 MNK because I have more or less solo levelled from level 1? What happened to EXP parties that don't involve me going to Abyssea or a cave where it is utter chaos and disorginization?

These are just a few things I have started to wonder. Then I started to really think about it. This game is not what it used to be. Where LS leaders held the members accountable for progression. Where if you asked for help, it was cool, and there was always someone to help. If you asked for help every night, but never offered help, you still got help, but you were made to feel like a ******** for never offering, and eventually removed from your LS because you were a sponge, and good for little else.

I remember a month or so ago, on one of the few nights I was able to dedicate my time to do something FUN for the game, I organized a level 1 race, from Jueno to Sandy. I ended up in an argument (one sided mostly) with another person who accused me of running a scam. Another person told me 100k and he would join. Another person actualy reported me to a GM. That was fun.

So my only question is this... What has happened to this game? Have people become so cynical and metnally burned from all the people that are in this game for monetary gain that they can no longer enjoy themselves? Have we really let it get this far, while doing nothing about RMT, sponges, leeches and the likes?

I am not really looking for answers. I am here to tell you that if you are on the Asura server, please, feel free to look up Bhambie or Menecius, and let's have some fun. Let's do things that make this game fun. Let's exp, NM hunt, quest, do missions and for ***** sake, let's talk while we are doing it! Make fun of eachother, make fun of others, tell us about your laste encounter with a member of the opposite (or same) ***, ask for advice, pour your heart out. The way I look at it, it's like a bar. And everyone is a bartender, as well as a patron. We are here to talk, engage, listen and combat enemies, LET"S ACT LIKE WE USED TO!

As this is my first post, I hope this did not come off as too whiney, but I don't really concern myself with what people think of me, I just want to see if I am the only person that feels this way.

Anyways,

Happy Adventuring!
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#2 Oct 20 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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That sounds really awful :(. Sorry you have experienced this. Yeah in GoV parties... there can be soo many people but none talk. So I initiate conversation lol. I make the others talk. And luckily my LS is usually pretty chatty and pretty silly (not just game stuff). I am on Bahemut server though.
#3 Oct 20 2012 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Virtually no one in a pickup group cares about anything anymore except making sure that their wants are being satisfied as efficiently as possible. To some that means joining and whining about the speed or strategy and then leaving if they don't get their way, or some will even join and go afk to leech.

I know where you're coming from as I too noticed the same thing last year when I decided to return to the game. Whether it's because the server population is lower than it was years ago and it becomes more noticeable I don't know. There have always been douches on the game, but I have to assume that with the release of abyssea and the changes that brought with it to the speed of the game (exp and loot farming), people have just become more impatient.

As for your LS being silent, I'm not sure what to say about that unless everyone is just afk all the time. Most of the time in mine when people are on there is conversation going so I guess you might consider looking for a more active one?
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#4 Oct 20 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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All this happen long before abyssea. People didn't talk in merit parities and doing so to much would lead right you you being rep with out notice. Killing the same HNM for the 100th time really didn't merit going over the strat for a 100th time. I would say it was worse in the good old days since leveling and meriting was the biggest chore in the game you just couldn't op-out of. If you waited around for 2 to 3 hours plus for a party you wanted to get the most out of that as you could.
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#5 Oct 20 2012 at 4:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Huh, I'm a veritable chatterbox in any given situation. Then again, even if I don't know anyone very well, I'll usually get at least one "I see you post on ZAM a lot" and the conversation can just take off from there.

Mostly those sorts of situations just need an ice breaker. A good joke, one at your own expense, never hurts.
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#6 Oct 20 2012 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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Here's what has happened:

The community has become self-centered and profit-driven to the point where the concept of helping with an event out of kindness, for fun, or just to socialized is so utterly foreign that the party leader thought you were an ignorant leech trying to get gear on the backs of people who 'actually know what they're doing'.

In any old MMO, the majority of the population consists of grumpy veterans doing content they've done 1000 times before, and they just want to get it over with as quickly as possible so they can get back to doing other content they've done 1000 times before which they'll want to get done with as quickly as possible. The reason for this is some complex aspect of reward psychology beyond my expertise, but it has to do with the way we repeat a rewarding activity even once it becomes no longer rewarding.

In ye olde days, the game was significantly inferior in terms of gameplay, but the community was fun because we were all figuring it out together and kinda-sorta on the same side, unless you were camping Leaping Lizzy or Fafhogg or something. It's fun to be clueless when everyone around you is clueless. You can all take your pants off and kill the NM without using any weaponskills, because these things increase the droprate, but only if a thief gets the killing blow with sneak attack. (Ideally, from the northwest during a full moon.)

Now that the game is more thoroughly and tediously documented than the Higgs Boson, no one has patience if you have not read the full details of an event and learned the strategies. (Sort of like using an official strategy guide to win, if the people who wrote official strategy guides actually played the game before writing them.) This kills the adventure and discovery, but leads to at least a 73% increase in gear rewards so that you can get invited to bigger events where you cast Sprout Smack and Aero II while an ukon warrior actually kills the mob.

So, basically: You're in an old MMO. Actually going into an event unprepared and learning from your mistakes has been dead since 2005, if not earlier. It's all about fat profits these days.

Maybe if we're lucky, Adoulin will bring back some adventure and/or make us all equally ignorant once again so that we can all return to failing in the general direction of success. Most likely, 95% of it will remain barren while we all farm some NM that drops an 8% haste belt with 2% triple attack, though.

If it's any consolation, the kind of person who gets into a ***** yelling fit over something so minor isn't having a good time with the game, either. Find some people without anger issues to unwind with. A good linkshell is hard to find these days, but not impossible.
#7 Oct 20 2012 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Long story short, nothing actually changed. The game is just such that people that don't have to up up with the ******** of endgame linkshells don't have to pretend to care anymore.

And, OP, no offense, but they just got their butts handed to them, and then you show up and you're all "hmm what's voidwatch?" on them. Don't get me wrong; there's never an excuse for rudeness. But you were kind of in the worst possible place at the worst possible time.
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#8 Oct 20 2012 at 8:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe if we're lucky, Adoulin will bring back some adventure and/or make us all equally ignorant once again so that we can all return to failing in the general direction of success. Most likely, 95% of it will remain barren while we all farm some NM that drops an 8% haste belt with 2% triple attack, though.


The people being buttheads now are gonna be buttheads after. Funny part is they're usually piggybacking off someone else's efforts when it comes to acquiring knowledge. That on its own isn't a bad thing, but lording it over others is. For all the talk of wikis, forums, or whatever else people "expect" other players to know about within a specific game, the fact is, any game that fails to self-contain any and all pertinent information fails in preparing players for the game itself. What's interesting is, with other MMOs that do point out quest objectives or where to go, it's immediately called hand holding and lazy players being spoon fed. The buttheads will just never be happy.

More specific to FFXI, though, the utter glacial pace new content has been released prior to Abyssea about mid-WotG and after Abyssea has been a serious detriment to player morale. Indeed, running something 100 times does suck. ****, over 10 can be pushing it. It's pretty freakin' obvious SE has been padding the lifespan of events they have released with **** poor drop rates, never mind the fake difficulty of things like Legion and Voidwatch to further keep people away from the drops. Players get mad at SE for this ****, but since they can't do anything about it, the next closest target, other players, get the brunt of their frustrations. PvE settings should never strive to create situations where you get mad at other players, and that's a memo I don't think SE's received.

I'm probably a sour grape at this point, but I do believe if SE actually tried to make FFXI a better game than it is, the community might also be better. I'm still finding the utter lack of further details on Adoulin, months later, disturbing. For the people who haven't abandoned ship for greener pastures already, this is probably make or break. I know I wouldn't mind playing again, but I'd like the game to actually be a game and not a job.
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#9 Oct 21 2012 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok,

BLM... did you say BLM?

There is a simple fix I like to use to restore fun to the game in particular when dealing with self centered asshats that like to think that everyone else has a problem.

It can be described by the use of a mathematical formulae:

Asshat /( BLM + Warp II) = Happy Ending

Honestly, people that can't have fun in this game need to go away, find their own fun and stop trying to ruin ours.

Edit: still kant tipe

Edited, Oct 21st 2012 9:01am by RaiseIII
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#10 Oct 21 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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RaiseIII wrote:
Honestly, people that can't have fun in this game need to go away, find their own fun and stop trying to ruin ours.
Not everyone finds the same things fun. There's never an excuse for being rude, but there are those that enjoy groups that are successful and professional, meaning casual players who give less than 110% are ruining their fun.
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#11 Oct 21 2012 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like everyones input, it is making me believe that there are still a large number of players out there that are here to have fun and enjoy the game, not see who can collect the most goodies and currency as possible while acting like a total **** at the same time. Someone mentioned D2 when it comes to people like the above mentioned, but I believe that will just create further friction and give the job a bad name.

Like I stated before, if you are on the Asura server, please do hit me up and say hi, if you still enjoy the game and can have fun with it. And if you know how to chat and have a good time, that is a definate plus.

#12 Oct 21 2012 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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****, over 10 can be pushing it. It's pretty freakin' obvious SE has been padding the lifespan of events they have released with **** poor drop rates, never mind the fake difficulty of things like Legion and Voidwatch to further keep people away from the drops.


If you ask me, once the point of the game has become 'acquire more gear so that you can use it to acquire more gear', it doesn't matter what they release: Everything will be fluff.

How can we call content fun when we are only suffering through it to get gear?

As an example, when I play Borderlands, I love finding new items. It's great, and it's always exciting to get something new and shiny... but I'm not playing through the game just to find guns and whining the whole way, because the game is fun. If they took away the loot and just gave you preset weapons, it would be less fun, but still a reasonably fun RPG/Shooter.

If you take away the loot in the current stage of FFXI.. what is left? Would anyone even keep playing? Therein lies the problem, and indirectly, the reason greed is the flavor of the month half-decade.
#13 Oct 21 2012 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I won't argue the content itself needs to be more engaging. SE has a fetish for overpowered individual mobs. I was a sucker for Campaign, and while it had its share of those, it was still a bit random within its usual predictability. The event just fell off due to lacking incentive and heavy-handed nerfs. It was also pretty user friendly, since if you were capable of challenging yourself and tanking a whole wave, you could. Otherwise, you could just stick to one or two mobs if you weren't as uber.

I know I've said it before, but Rift kinda took the Campaign concept and upped it a notch. You could think of rifts as mini-outposts within the zone that spawned mobs, with invasions coming from those that could run toward quest hubs or event objectives if those are going. While losing an event tends to be of little consequence, everyone working together at least leads to some tangible rewards. I just felt Trion needed to broaden that reward pool, and if for anything, treat "rifting" as its own form of endgame like raiding/running dungeons or PvP. Instead, it at best got you raid ready for an excruciatingly large amount of effort.

Right now, SE's stuck in both sidegrade mode and just not offering gear with different looks, but the same stats as others. Or, ****, they could even add the ability for us to reskin our gear so we don't all look the same or like fashion nightmares. There are little creature comfort things that can be done like that, but I also don't think we'll shed the mentality that people want rewarded for their efforts, especially as long as the game is P2P. Anyway, I can't speak for Meeble, but I'd automatically call its biggest fault the access limitation. It's also got its share of bosses, which on its own isn't a bad thing, but if their AI is the usual "just attack the person with the highest hate blindly until everyone is dead" then there hasn't been any progress in making encounters more engaging.
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#14 Oct 21 2012 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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ItsAMyri wrote:
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****, over 10 can be pushing it. It's pretty freakin' obvious SE has been padding the lifespan of events they have released with **** poor drop rates, never mind the fake difficulty of things like Legion and Voidwatch to further keep people away from the drops.


If you ask me, once the point of the game has become 'acquire more gear so that you can use it to acquire more gear', it doesn't matter what they release: Everything will be fluff.

But... doesn't every one of these types of games eventually devolve into that, once you've leveled up and gotten your accesses and missions and stuff out of the way? 'course, it doesn't help that Leveling and missions are so easy that you could fall down the steps and found that you've gotten 3 levels and a chapter and a half done of CoP, so it does tend to make the rest of the game look a lot less filled.
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#15 Oct 21 2012 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Problem is they base the game on if you weren't there during this time you are pretty much screwed, I haven't had any interest in VWNM I read about it and don't feel like putting effort into building a party to tackle a powerful monster, I do wait and see if someone shouts the sandoria and windurst and bastok key items but no one ever shouts which falls in the line of what I just said.

Some people might say ah you're just lazy, maybe so but that's what you get when you played for so long and you bust your **** in this game, its they offer no vacation aka easy stuff to do for those who just joined who missed out on things, I am not saying me but others who joined FFXI or came back.

I am sure this will be sub-defaulted, though its expected when someone ever has a good idea or a good reason why stuff goes down hill they wanna hide it behind a default.

its why this game to me has went to the pits, it still has some fun elements to it, though I am just waiting for the expansion, then all these new things that they added wont even matter anymore.

Due to the fact you won't be able to survive in new expansion unless you are level 99 and by the time all the gimp people reach the new expansion nobody will want to do anything like they always do and people will struggle which falls in line again with what I said before, if you were not there for the boom, you missed it, unless you're lucky.
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#16 Oct 21 2012 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Trying to make your point appear more valid by appealing that it's controversial and will be rated down earns you a rate down.
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#17 Oct 22 2012 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Raelix wrote:
Trying to make your point appear more valid by appealing that it's controversial and will be rated down earns you a rate down.


Don't need to make myself look Valid here, each one of us plays this game, we all have our own opinions about stuff, because you guys rate down, you play god with other peoples opinions.

So usually they are skipped because of people like you, another reason why usually people leave this forums for FFXIAH or BG.

Unlike me I visit once in a great while, I hate the rate down option because people like you don't know what good or bad but just follow what the next guy post about the person.

Do I care what you think about me absolutely not, I play this game to have fun and give my honest opinions about things and what I don't like or what I do like, I wonder who the true trolls are the ones with the power to rate up or down or the ones who give honest opinions.

Edit: Also the rate up and down has bugged me since I signed up here, I have missed so many good comments from people about stuff by others due to the fact it was sub-defaulted and sent to ****, guess I am being one of those guys you hate right? heh

anyways stay classy



Edited, Oct 22nd 2012 3:53am by ZanonX
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#18 Oct 22 2012 at 2:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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ZanonX wrote:
Due to the fact you won't be able to survive in new expansion unless you are level 99 and by the time all the gimp people reach the new expansion nobody will want to do anything like they always do and people will struggle which falls in line again with what I said before, if you were not there for the boom, you missed it, unless you're lucky.

It sounds like you're discouraged because you can't make progress due to an inactive linkshell. Don't do shout pickup parties and get an active linkshell instead. If your linkshell is dead, find one that isn't. My casual event LS of like 8 active people farmed empyrean weapons, started VW city/zilart/Jeuno clears, did 99 cap fights for people coming back, and just generally had fun. If you're in a linkshell of people who won't help you, or a linkshell of people who aren't on anymore, then it falls on you to find a linkshell of people who want to get these sorts of things done.

Also, I rated you down for whining about being rated down. Srsly, its just a message board.
#19 Oct 22 2012 at 3:24 AM Rating: Default
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Can someone please answer my question?

Why cant I go to character restore, it says the server is down for maintenance every time even though it isn't
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#20 Oct 22 2012 at 4:49 AM Rating: Decent
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What's wrong with the game?

Square have lost interest in the it and it's been that way for a few years now, they have a new baby and this one ain't getting any love anymore. The thing that kept people here in the past was that square loved the game and looked after it, the players stuck with it and kept paying for it due to that.

People that have played for years and years are now starting to quit, hardcore long time players leaving is a bad thing and something that never happened to this kind of level before. Player numbers are at a record low, around 1k players on every server during EST prime time (a lot of these are JP players) and around 2k on JP prime time.

I hope that the new expansion brings people back and renews SEs interest in the game because right now it's as bad as it gets, I was on yesterday and my home server is dead, the other servers I tried seemed the same. Most of the people I used to see around are gone, there are almost no new people and the GoV and other leveling spots are completely barren.
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#21 Oct 22 2012 at 4:54 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Huh, I'm a veritable chatterbox in any given situation.
Mostly those sorts of situations just need an ice breaker. A good joke, one at your own expense, never hurts.

Same.

For the OP - sadly those runs are usually organised and its a good idea to know what you are volunteering your self for before you do it. With so many different things to do NMs that you see may have requirements.

Some of these people who setup the runs probably just want to get a 30 minute thing done and dusted instead it ends up taking 3 hours (I have been involved in this and trust me it is very annoying). You also have to remember that you are dealing with real people with real lives. One thing some XI people remind me of is the one time (long story short) it was the 1st Diabolos fight years and years ago and we lost the next thing that I put was "Right im ****** BRB dumping my GF". Althoguh they presumed right away and to today that it was just because we lost the fight, there was real life reasons.

As for quite LS's if it is an issue, find an active one. I am in a quiet one even when it has 6-10 members it gets quiet to the point where its just me, very boring, quiet and nothing to do.

For helping - you will find those people are still about, I know a good amount of people that would help and give up hours and hours just to get you your stuffs. Samt/Yuu prime examples in my LS, they certainly would sacrifice hours to help like they have done for me and other people. With a game now much more open to smaller parties we no longer get involved in 18+ people runs, which in turn means less people in a single LS, which also means less socialising, chatting and getting a load of people to do something. Now its just get a few people - tank, healer, proc and away you go. Because the game is much more open and accessible it has lost a few things but like I said - join another LS with lots of people.
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#22 Oct 22 2012 at 5:18 AM Rating: Default
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not worth it.



Edited, Oct 22nd 2012 4:49pm by ZanonX
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#23 Oct 22 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dude, whining about karma is like whining about why people don't like you. It's a known fact that people won't like you for whatever reason they wish, they don't HAVE to like you, and in the end, karma amounts to what color your name is.

Most people run with their post rating filters off anyway because subdefaulted posts are usually the source of many lulz to be had...so your argument that it hides your post is invalid. Even if your post winds up subdefaulted....click expand post, problem solved. So, really, it's just a freaking damned color.

**** the colors, full speed ahead and say what you have to say. Just don't expect everyone to like it.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2012 11:17am by Magicalsquirrel

Edited, Oct 22nd 2012 11:18am by Magicalsquirrel
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#24 Oct 22 2012 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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You know, the worst thing about this all is, you could have easily participated in that Voidwatch battle regardless of your progress or your voidstones. If you do not have voidstones, you yourself will only get 18,000 exp/cruor from that particular battle, and no personal rewards what so ever. But since you were only lending a hand anyhow...

They honestly really were retarded for not letting you help out. So just think of it as having saved yourself the trouble enduring a horrible party(leader).
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#25 Oct 22 2012 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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On that note, I started Voidwatch just about a month ago. Since then I have:
- Cleared all the cities
- Cleared Jeuno Tier I
- Cleared Zilart Tier I
- Cleared all of Aht Urghan

This was entirely from shout parties.
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#26 Oct 22 2012 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
Voidwatch is like everything else in this game, seems complicated until you start doing it and realize there's nothing to it. As for a linkshell, just surround yourself with 1-3 people and off you go. It's all you need now a days, will you get things done as fast as the bigger shells, no, but you will eventually get what you want. Our linkshell consists of 3 members with one guy dual boxing, we're working on our 5th empy right now, received every item we'd want from abyssea, started voidwatch with our bsts, etc. Will we be able to do voidwatch at later tiers, no, but you can join shouts as a group of 3 and go from there.

You can even 3 man the turtle for KS99 black belt now which we just recently did (I know, old news, but still fun).
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