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Nyzul Uncharted: nice gear, cheater!Follow

#27 Jun 21 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
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Dantedmc wrote:
I love how anyone with good gear is an elitist prick who hates casuals and needs to feel special.


No one even said that here. You sure you have the right thread?
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#28 Jun 21 2012 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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How is neo-nyzul different from old nyzul? Honest question, as I have not done it. Why do people need hacks when they didn't need hacks in old nyzul? Are the lamps much harder than before? Is the layout bigger or more complex?
#29 Jun 21 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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ItsAMyri wrote:
How is neo-nyzul different from old nyzul? Honest question, as I have not done it. Why do people need hacks when they didn't need hacks in old nyzul? Are the lamps much harder than before? Is the layout bigger or more complex?

You can't save progress. If you want the best drops, you have to finish 100 floors in 30 minutes.
#30 Jun 21 2012 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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There is so much Nyzul gear out there that it's almost certain that a good portion of it has been acquired legit. I want to make a few points:

-Kill speed is so important, it just cannot be understated. You cannot bring sub-optimal jobs and expect to win regularly.

-With that in mind, for a raid that offers such incredible rewards, it's probably entirely worth your time to level and gear an optimal job for it. SCH is not hard to gear (it's difficult to reach 500 enhancing, but getting it to a point where you can cap magical haste with Haste spell is easy). SAM is easy to gear. A good BLU is so invaluable it's ridiculous, but requires a lot more effort.

-Increasing your movement speed via hacks will give you a very high win rate, but will very likely get you suspended. However, this should give you a good idea of how important powder boots are to a successful run. Yeah they may be 80k each but you should carry enough to full time them and always have one ready to go (ditch your normal feet gear and full time powder boots).

-Skype or some type of voice chat is essentially mandatory. You can't easily type and run.

-Communicate. Have an idea of how you are going to split up on floors. You lose precious seconds when somebody doesn't says "I'm at lamp, should I hit it? Should I hit? I'm gonna hit it... Hit!" Have an idea of who is stopping to clear this room, who is going to keep running. Do you need to team up on this nm? Is it that ****** pudding that needs to be skillchained? Is it that ******* flayer that uses unbridled learning? Is that Byakko? Might wanna take it first and switch targets when he uses PD.

-Even with Embrava and Regen you can still die. A lot of people forget this.

-Lamp dats are a sticky issue for me. They are extremely useful and can easily be the difference between winning and losing. As far as I know they are essentially undetectable, particularly if you keep all your chat on skype. I personally think it's cheating, but you're not going to get caught for it.

-Other small tips include having accession up for the next floor, casting sneak immediately upon zoning up, using powder boots for specified enemy/enemies, leader, and lamp floors, using body boost at start and middle of the run, everybody having sprinters/clerics, everybody should have a ranged attack of some sort for "do not aggro gear" floors.

There's too much gear out there for everybody to be cheaters. Even if you only win one out of every 10-20 times, you are guaranteed to get a piece of gear that is best in slot for multiple jobs. The most important thing is persistence.
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#31 Jun 21 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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But that's 18 seconds per floor. Is there no way to skip floors? Even with perma-flee I can't picture myself somehow clearing a nyzul floor in 18 seconds, much less consistently, 99 times in a row :s.

Even POS hacking to the objective and back to the lamp seems like it'd take too long.

I don't see how people can beat that even with cheating, much less legit.

Edit: Disregard, looks like you'd average 20~ actual floors, which is still ridiculous but not mind-breakingly so. I can see it happening with cheats.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 4:05pm by ItsAMyri
#32 Jun 21 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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ItsAMyri wrote:
But that's 18 seconds per floor. Is there no way to skip floors? Even with perma-flee I can't picture myself somehow clearing a nyzul floor in 18 seconds, much less consistently, 99 times in a row :s.

Even POS hacking to the objective and back to the lamp seems like it'd take too long.

I don't see how people can beat that even with cheating, much less legit.

You can skip floors just like you used to be able to :P

That's the key to winning of course, and how luck plays a role in getting to the top. You skip a random number of floors, up to 9 or 10 at a single pass if I'm not mistaken.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 3:02pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
#33 Jun 21 2012 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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ItsAMyri wrote:
But that's 18 seconds per floor. Is there no way to skip floors? Even with perma-flee I can't picture myself somehow clearing a nyzul floor in 18 seconds, much less consistently, 99 times in a row :s.

Even POS hacking to the objective and back to the lamp seems like it'd take too long.

I don't see how people can beat that even with cheating, much less legit.
At the end of the floor you can choose to go up either one floor, or a random number (2-9). So without cheating, it is extremely heavily luck based whether you can even get to floor 100--which is exactly what SE wanted.
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#34 Jun 21 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:
How is neo-nyzul different from old nyzul? Honest question, as I have not done it. Why do people need hacks when they didn't need hacks in old nyzul? Are the lamps much harder than before? Is the layout bigger or more complex?

You can't save progress. If you want the best drops, you have to finish 100 floors in 30 minutes.

I, too, have yet to do neo nyzule, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard... You can't save progress? I can understand why people cheat. I need to look at the neo nyzule gear and see what all the fuss is about. Anyone care to mention the new names of the sets so I can wiki them please?
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#35 Jun 21 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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spcwill wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:
How is neo-nyzul different from old nyzul? Honest question, as I have not done it. Why do people need hacks when they didn't need hacks in old nyzul? Are the lamps much harder than before? Is the layout bigger or more complex?

You can't save progress. If you want the best drops, you have to finish 100 floors in 30 minutes.

I, too, have yet to do neo nyzule, but that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard... You can't save progress? I can understand why people cheat. I need to look at the neo nyzule gear and see what all the fuss is about. Anyone care to mention the new names of the sets so I can wiki them please?

Thaumas Attire Set

Phorcys Armor Set

Nares Saio Set

Thaumas Coat, in particular, is droolworthy.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 3:16pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
#36 Jun 21 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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CorncobWilly wrote:
Phorcys/Thaumas gear.



Was mentioned off the top, I think

edit: beat me to it!

Also, agreed about the Thaumas coat.

I wouldn't mind the refresh pants for my brd either

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 1:18pm by Olorinus
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#37 Jun 21 2012 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would like Square to modify the activity so people do not need those "tools" in order to be successful.
#38 Jun 21 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
They won't modify Neo-Nyzul to allow people to beat it regularly without the need for third party tools (or .dat mods for things like lamps) just because, as I mentioned before in the other Nyzul topic, they didn't intend for players to beat it on a regular basis. They made it heavily luck based to make the gear rarer, because climbing to floor 100 without flee hacks, mods to .dats for lamps, etc would require a consistent string of lucky jumps and easy floors for those jumps, which isn't something that would likely happen very often.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 5:05pm by Vlorsutes
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#39 Jun 21 2012 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:

Honestly, making events like this that are incredibly luck-based and don't have any other players outside of your party watching what you do is just begging for people to whip out the hax. And since they refuse to do anything about the event to help make people feel like they don't have to keep cheating at it to win... well, people are going to keep cheating at it to win. Big surprise there.


Their precedent was Dragon's Aery, which went on untouched for, well forever until it was no longer relevant.
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#40 Jun 21 2012 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
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Camiie wrote:
Byrthnoth wrote:
In my opinion, we all play this game for fun and there's no RL correlate for stupid digital "equipment." Play as you like and don't expect SE to fix the game's problems. They're having enough trouble making Tacos for FanFest.


I'd change it to "Play as you like and be willing to accept the consequences." I don't want to see people going on BG to whine about what a travesty of justice it is they got banned for this. Yeah there's comedic value in that, but in a "I can't believe anyone is this stupid" kind of way.


No actually by your own earlier post, you'd change it to "Play as you like because you want to lord it over someone" since you apparently think people who cheat actually care what people without that gear think. In my opinion both mindsets, that of the person who lords it over, and that of the super casual victim, are about equally likely to be the case.

Most of the best skilled and geared players I meet and know don't care about super casuals. In fact, they'd prefer if there were none so their time wasn't wasted.
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#41 Jun 21 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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What is the ******* point of cheating in a game like this? The only person you're cheating is yourself.

The game is doing the events to get the stuff. If you cheat you're just giving money to SE not to play the game.

Why don't these people just pay their money then go and play on the test server? Then they could have everything they want without having to do anything for it.
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#42 Jun 21 2012 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheBarrister wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Byrthnoth wrote:
In my opinion, we all play this game for fun and there's no RL correlate for stupid digital "equipment." Play as you like and don't expect SE to fix the game's problems. They're having enough trouble making Tacos for FanFest.


I'd change it to "Play as you like and be willing to accept the consequences." I don't want to see people going on BG to whine about what a travesty of justice it is they got banned for this. Yeah there's comedic value in that, but in a "I can't believe anyone is this stupid" kind of way.


No actually by your own earlier post, you'd change it to "Play as you like because you want to lord it over someone" since you apparently think people who cheat actually care what people without that gear think. In my opinion both mindsets, that of the person who lords it over, and that of the super casual victim, are about equally likely to be the case.


The people who want events to be exclusionary and gear to be rare definitely care about their prestige compared to others. You could say they care about a challenge and longevity of play, but if they're cheating their way through Neo-Nyzul they obviously don't care about that.

I don't know what you mean by super casual victim. I never painted anyone as that. When I say lording their gear over others I mean acting as if it's some sign of superiority. It's not, especially if it's gained by cheating. That's not victimizing anyone, it's just acting like a d-bag with a poor perspective on life.

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Most of the best skilled and geared players I meet and know don't care about super casuals. In fact, they'd prefer if there were none so their time wasn't wasted.


I guess that's why we can choose who we play with then.

jtftaru wrote:
What is the @#%^ing point of cheating in a game like this? The only person you're cheating is yourself.

The game is doing the events to get the stuff. If you cheat you're just giving money to SE not to play the game.

Why don't these people just pay their money then go and play on the test server? Then they could have everything they want without having to do anything for it.


The ironic thing is these people cheating their way up Neo-Nyzul are the ones who beg for content that's hard and don't want gear just handed out. They SAY those things then they cheat their rears off because maybe they aren't as awesome as they thought they were. Or maybe they didn't really want a challenge so much as content they could win but that excluded most everyone else.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 5:58pm by Camiie
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#43 Jun 21 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
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Camiie wrote:

The ironic thing is these people cheating their way up Neo-Nyzul are the ones who beg for content that's hard and don't want gear just handed out. They SAY those things then they cheat their rears off because maybe they aren't as awesome as they thought they were. Or maybe they didn't really want a challenge so much as content they could win but that excluded most everyone else.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 5:58pm by Camiie


Or maybe?

Or Maybe they want content that requires good Abyssea+2 gear, 90+ empyreans (or some equivalent like relics, but not a loophole like a normal magian), and years of understanding of how to play a job vs. slapping on some aurore and perle gear?

Or maybe they want to play with friends?

Or people named Jim?

Or a million other reasons that are most likely not the one you stated?

Why do you care about their reasons?
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#44 Jun 21 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Camiie wrote:
The ironic thing is these people cheating their way up Neo-Nyzul are the ones who beg for content that's hard and don't want gear just handed out. They SAY those things then they cheat their rears off because maybe they aren't as awesome as they thought they were. Or maybe they didn't really want a challenge so much as content they could win but that excluded most everyone else.
Clearing 20 floors is hard, difficult. Clearing 20 floors only to time out on floor 63 is bullsh*t. Players do want difficult content, but governing the entire event using a high degree of chance is not the way.

Edited, Jun 21st 2012 5:43pm by xypin
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#45 Jun 21 2012 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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The ironic thing is these people cheating their way up Neo-Nyzul are the ones who beg for content that's hard and don't want gear just handed out.


There's a difference between legitimate difficulty and stuff that's just dependent on luck and a time limit.

Legion suffers the same problems at the moment, thing is that Legion also has a degree of legitimate difficulty which is why fleehacks and such are not winning fights for them.
#46 Jun 21 2012 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hmm. No tvtropes link to "Nintendo Hard" yet.

Well, I'm not going to be the one responsible for people trapped in a Lost Woods of tabs.
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#47 Jun 21 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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The point I was making is: Why ask for hard content with rare rewards and then cheat2win? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? It's very hypocritical of those who desire high levels of challenge and prestige to do so. It certainly cheapens the accomplishment.

Trust me I think Neo-Nyzul is horrendously bad content. I'm in NO way defending it. I wish they'd stuck with the original Nyzul system for it. The low drop rates were annoying, but this new multi-layered randomness is beyond stupid. It's still no excuse to cheat though.
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#48 Jun 21 2012 at 7:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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zellbaca wrote:
Hmm. No tvtropes link to "Nintendo Hard" yet.

Well, I'm not going to be the one responsible for people trapped in a Lost Woods of tabs.
For Nyzul Isle Uncharted, shouldn't the proper link be "Luck Based Mission" instead?
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#49 Jun 21 2012 at 10:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Camiie wrote:
The point I was making is: Why ask for hard content with rare rewards and then cheat2win? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? It's very hypocritical of those who desire high levels of challenge and prestige to do so. It certainly cheapens the accomplishment.

Not to defend the cheaters, but if it was simply "hard content with rare rewards" then it wouldn't be an issue, the problem is that regardless of how skilled you are, the randomness is gonna ***** you over 49 out of 50 times. It's a slap in the face when it's basically "Wow, you guys are very skilled, coordinated, have excellent strategies, and have made logical decisions for the entire duration of this event.... but, the coin-flip landed on tails, so you lose."

That's not even the terrible part of it though, using the random-factor to create artifical rarity is more-or-less the same thing as just giving the gear a terrible drop rate. The problem is that people can cheat to get around it, and the devs seem unwilling to adjust anything about it. So in essence, their method of simulating "rarity" does nothing more than punish the players that don't cheat.
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#50 Jun 22 2012 at 1:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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zellbaca wrote:
Hmm. No tvtropes link to "Nintendo Hard" yet.

Well, I'm not going to be the one responsible for people trapped in a Lost Woods of tabs.


Except you are.
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#51 Jun 22 2012 at 2:05 AM Rating: Good
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