Nyzul Uncharted: nice gear, cheater!Follow

Your dog is thinking about it's next meal, your cat is thinking about what you'd look like in iron shackles kneeling before it.

Exactly.... I couldn't have said it better. :3

The team that was losing should have just punched the guy holding the ball, right Raelix? Punching is totally against the rules and is blatant cheating, but that's acceptable when the rules aren't the way you thibk they should be, right?

I find it acceptable awesome to punch an opposing teammate in the face if they're a robot, or computer simulation, and I would make sure everyone I knew knew about it, preferably catching it on video.

Based on how good the gear is and how you are guaranteed to get exactly what you want when you win (plus a chance at additional drops), the win rate should not be 100%. And as I posted earlier, it's very much NOT a 100% win rate. Only the most blatant hacks (which will get you suspended or worse) will get you close to 100%. Fillmode and lamp dats will get you to 25%-50% or so depending on your group. Higher % if you are the best of the best (not me). And if your group is inept, they too are not enough to punch a ticket to Floor 100.

Adjust your bra straps jtf, your chip is showing.

FFXI was the genesis of my game design policy "Random is never fun."

I personally think the opposite is truer. Monsters Developers have a direct control over, where as players they don't. It take a massive amount of time for them to test something enough to know every single way a player might use abilities. Especially in rpgs where tactics can be applied. I remember when I figured out a built a deck in Phantasy Star online episode 3 C.A.R.D. Revolution. It took me about a month to figure out how to make this deck nearly flawless. Only one rarely use defensive card could counter the deck.(something the player base never really realized) And a handful of weapon/monster cards that actually had the trait innately. When I finally took it to a public area and obliterated my opponent in a tournament in 2 days it was the most over used deck online. Just to give an example of when players do things they don't expect players to do or find interesting ways to use the abilities they are given. Hell look at their happy mistake with ninja(Our happy their frustration). And PvP is such a different animal from PvE. Hell just go into PvP and see how vastly different your abilities and skills are in potency and effectiveness. Hell I remember landing a dark magic spell as white mage no problem in PvP where I have a better chance of breaking 500 damage with banish I if I tried to land that on a monster. Any who, it's much harder to control what players do so adjusting for a PvP situation in an RPG is much more difficult then having direct control over one of the elements, in my opinion.

Any who, I didn't realize Nyzul isle the only place in FFXI where we can have a satisfying experience. Guess cheaters are the only ones that feel satisfied in this game.

Edit: Also I agree this thread should go back to cats and dogsXD

Aristicats had cats that were the good guys!

Edited, Jul 1st 2012 1:42pm by Laxedrane

I should have said instead of "This event is luck based" with the coin reference to "this event is EXCESSIVELIY luck based". Obviously it requires skill. It requires coordination and all that fun stuff. Luck is not the only factor. However, any event that is excessively luck based stops being fun. People are comparing this to chess, basketball, and whatever else. This is PvM. Not PvP. In a PvP game, any PvP game, each team (assuming it is 2) has a 50% chance of winning with the game being virtually ENTIRELY determined by who is more skilled. There is no luck in chess. No luck in basketball. These are head to head skill based contests and usually only have ONE aspect where luck comes into play. Flipping a coin to see who moves/gets the ball 1st. While it has been proven that the player going 1st has a minute (like less than 2%) advantage in some of these games, compare the impact of luck on the winner in a scenario like that vs NI.

Compare the impact of luck in ANY event to date to the new NI.

When you loose because a monster just kicks your ***, you regroup, restrategize, change jobs, gear up more, do SOMETHING to say "this is what i learned and next time we can overcome (insert reason you lost). When an 'ideal' group of players with absurd gear (FAAAAR exceeding anything most people will EVER get), use 3rd party voice chat to communicate more efficiently than possible in the game, and otherwise a superior setup in every way the game allows and then some (voice chat) and still just 'rolls the dice' the event is no longer fun. I did plenty of plane jane runs. Once you reach a certain point, you realize, there is no significant adjustments to be made and you just cleared floor 70 because you got 2-3 jumps and a kill all floor with 3-4 HNMs and WS restricted, you realize no amount of 'skill' will fix it. You dont leave the run saying "well do better next time guys!" you leave and say "I hope SE doesnt @#%^ us again next time".

When luck REGULARLY and REPEATEDLY kills an otherwise successful run, theres no fun in that. It makes you want to punch a bag of babys. I enjoy a challenge as much (arguably moreso based on my personality) as the next guy. There is no growth, or skill to be learned.Games like baseket ball dont have random meteors that crash into the game occasionally killing a team mate and ref just says "well guess you gotta keep going -1 player vs the other full team opponents". There are no completely random "@#%^ yous" in any world renowned competitive sport. EVERY sanctioned sport with large followings has rules to REDUCE the impact of luck to make it a true skill based competition between players. But they are playing PEOPLE. Not code.

How much fun would an HNM be that was basically a pushover, but had a 50% chance to use a move that was ZONE wide deathga. Cant be stunned. Cant be PDed. Cant do anything. It WILL kill you if it uses it period. There is nothing you can do to mitigate, or prevent it. ANd it just 'decides' if its going to use it. That is getting trolled. Thats not fun. Thats not a learning experience and for ***** sake it doesnt make the monster HARD or CHALLENGING or DIFFICULT. It makes it a CHEAP POS.Luck=/= difficulty or challenge. Please stop saying it. Also, please stop making these broad generalizations that all cheaters are bad evil @#%^s. I can rattle off a list of 'evil cheaters' that are the nicest, most helpful damn people in the world. I can also list off a bunch of @#%^ing pricks that play on PS2. Protip: Gross generalizations about a group of people based on limited sample/information and/or biased is friggin ignorant.


Dear god this person gets it!

Edited, Jul 1st 2012 2:06pm by Banalaty

You just described Mario Party.

I agree with everything you said.

Edited, Jul 1st 2012 9:04am by detlef

This is one of those arguments where really no one's opinion will be changed, and I argue that the entire discussion itself is a pointless one.

There are people that cheat and people that don't. The ones that do will continue to do so even if they are ridiculed in the process by their fellow players, because they like the advantage that it gives them in completing what they're using those cheats for (flee hacks, claim bots, etc). They feel that the current system is unfair for one reason or another, and they aren't opposed to using "illegal" methods to get their way. Only one of two things can happen that will stop these kinds of players from using those cheats. 1) They lose interest in the event, be it because new gear has come out that makes those previously sought out items obsolete, or they've obtained all the items from there, and they don't have any drive to continue, or 2) Direct intervention by Square Enix that either makes it impossible for these tools to be used or disciplinary action is taken on those individuals (though even that sometimes isn't enough).

Then there are those players that are adamant against using cheats. Be it morality or just because they prefer the event as it's laid out before them, they won't cheat, nor do they condone the actions of those that do.

There really isn't a gray area with this situation, there will be people will use it and berate those that won't for being cowards and there will be those who won't use it and berate those that will for being spoiled. It's better to just accept that there are going to be those that have those differing opinions, no matter what.

SE decides that. If you think SE simply doesn't know about this, then report it. SE will decide whether its worth acting on or not.

Personally, I agree with those who have made the distinction in this thread already about cheats that directly impact other players vs cheats that don't. To me, price fixing practices on the AH -- which don't violate the ToS or require the use of 3rd party tools -- are a far worse "cheat" than players using various tools in an instanced environment like Nyzul.

At best, you can argue that players who cheat to get those rewards devalue the accomplishment of players that got the same rewards without using those cheats. If there was some kind of sanctioned system for buying and selling these rewards for real money, I would have a different stance on this issue.