Nyzul Uncharted: nice gear, cheater!Follow

I'm too dead to care either way, and I'd rather my pet survive than die like an idiot.

Incidentally, my current cat is a rescue animal. He, his sister, at least 4 of their siblings, and their mother were locked in a garage in an inner city abandoned house until discovered by people that came to condemn the place. Only he and his sister survived. He was nursed back to health and given away to our family, and is by far and large the sweetest, most loving cat I have ever seen. Whenever I come home to visit, he follows me around and sleeps on my feet when I'm on the computer.

I should of gone and re-read that post before trying to quote it by memory. That was very poor of me and my mistake. But since you so helpfully did the math of ratio I'll get to the point. The reason I replied to no other part of your post was becuase you pretty much proved the point I was trying to make. That even if there was a 1% chance of winning it will still have a better return rate then other events in this game. Even at a 1% chance of success your guarantee 6 items(since at this point there's no way you win with less than 6) of your choice no other event allows such a reward, besides missions. So purely looking at the achieving armor. You have a better chance at gear in this then some of the biggest offenders like salvage(Which looses out considering the fact you need 3 pieces 1 piece from a 5-10% depending, and another piece from one of the biggest ***** over from bosses.) or voidwatch.

So willing to put up with so many other bad events with %s stack against you. How is this any different? Is the point I am trying to make. Or is it simply becuase there is no other way to cheat in those events to increase the drop rates?

Nyzul:
How often? Once per day hard limit.
How long? It takes half an hour.
Requirements? You need a very specific 6-man setup with 2-hours available.
Additional benefits: If you don't hit 100 on a 100-run, you probably get nothing worth having. You may score a paltry amount of Alexandrite if you hit another floor boss on the way up.

Voidwatch
How often? Three times per day (and then as many dusts as you want to use).
How long? With a good group, it takes about half an hour to form and another half hour per 6 stones.
Requirements? You need a really fairly variable 18-man setup. If you have multiple jobs, there's plenty of leeway for you to move around.
Additional benefits: Less amazing gear (Fajin Boots vs. Coruscanti, for instance), gil items (Heavy Metal Plates, Silver Mirrors, random crafting mats), XP, and Cruor (which is also gil).

So Nyzul might have a marginally higher drop rate (1% for floor 100 gear vs. 1% for a Voidwatch Body or probably 0.5% for a Voidwatch weapon), but it totally lacks additional benefits, has inflexible job requirements, requires 2-hours, and isn't spammable. If you ignore how frequently you can do the event, by your math Nyzul Isle floor 100 with a vanilla client is comparable to getting a Voidwatch body, except that you can do Voidwatch a minimum of 3x as often (effectively 3x drop rate) with a shout group of scrubs in less time and using more of your jobs while you make gil in various ways.

Not at all. I want to see NEO Nyzul fixed officially so that everyone has a reasonable shot at winning and no one feels any need to cheat at all. I don't feel that having some of the best and brightest of the community skewing the results by cheating helps lead to that result. I think it's more likely to lead to results none of us want. As I said, if we act like we are now they'll never fix the broken event. If we play fair they may. The chances are between slim and none, so yeah I'll take slim. The only drawback to my strategy is, I don't get loot from it.

I kind of wonder if those who are cheating their way through Neo Nyzul really want the event officially fixed at all. They have their fix in place to get what they want, and despite what some say, there really is no effort on their part to goad/persuade/bully SE into making changes.

There are ways of replenishing them, but even NNI in its current incarnation would seem less daunting if you knew that in a week, you could basically try running it as much as you (or your group) would like. Luck elements aside, the more concentrated repetitions should also ideally build on what "skill" sets are required (if not taking short cuts). And since Assault tags wouldn't be a limited resource, losing wouldn't be as much of a blow, either.

But yeah, if someone wanted to Nyzul, Assault, Salvage, Dynamis, Einherjar, Limbus, or whatever for all time: Let them. If the concern lies in keeping people interested, that's when you start taking advantage of in-game point systems giving people more gear to buy or things they could sell off like all these abysmally rare new crafting materials. Maybe then SE would be left to create meaningful content and more often instead of hoping they can string people along with time sinks and fake difficulty.

Sadly, server code probably kills this dead because they haven't wrapped their brains around true instancing yet.

I can't be the only one here that still doesn't see how "playing fair" -> "event possibly getting fixed", here.

To me the only connection to be made is "do whatever the hell you want" -> "SE does whatever the hell they want, which is often nothing at all"




I think most of them believe that what they "want" to happen is meaningless because they are not the game designers, and that many of them have tried to be vocal about things that should be changed in the past, but their feedback was seemingly ignored.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 7:49am by Fynlar

I have a hard time believing you've done your research into whether or not those people have offered the feedback you say they have. There is plenty of it. Including in this thread.

I think it's time you stepped off your high horse, because to me it looks like a miniature pony.

At this point, I highly doubt Nyzul will be "fixed" again. They've already made their pass-through and put in the stopper and the progression Astrariums. As seen by where Nyzul gear is placed in Gobbiebag reward tiers, they view these pieces as rarer than most things. They obviously want most groups reaching Floor 80 25 times for that one rare piece, and only occasionally getting lucky with Floor 100. With as many hundreds of times as people spam each Voidwatch monster for glowy bodies (which are generally inferior to Nyzul gear), I actually don't think it's wholly unrealistic to win Floor 80 25 times for something as clearly superior as a Thaumas body. Also, recall how many hundreds of times people spammed that Abyssea quest for the Refresh subligar? Well, you've got the Nares Trews in Nyzul which might take as many or fewer manhours clearing Floor 80. Sure, it would have been nice if they changed the requirement to 10 times instead of 25 times, but people have certainly expended more effort for much less. I realize that may be a controversial stance, but it seems to be SE's stance for better or for worse.



Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 10:38am by Poltergeist27

...and that's not even the only thread about it. There have been several other threads (and several deleted threads) also complaining about it.

One of the earliest threads on the subject ended up being deleted because people were discussing 3P alternatives too freely. That's where I posted my suggestions on how to fix it and asked SE to do it. By the time the current Neo-NI thread on the official forums came around, it was already pretty apparent that SE wasn't going to change the event and many people had given up trying to change their minds (myself included). I think I posted in the newest one ~twice mostly refereeing arguments between tards. Keep in mind that on release, there was no astarium system. This alleged 1% drop rate (as laughable as it is) represents a dramatic improvement over their initial system. That WAS the adjustment.

I also made this thread ( http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle-%28CAUTION-GMs-have-been-banning-for-flee-tools%29 ) which has had plenty of back and forth about the problems with and solutions to Neo-NI.

And I keep saying the expected payout rate alone doesn't balance content. You say 1% expected outcome is pretty good. Want to know what else had a 1% expected outcome? Tier 0 HQ synths. And yet, it took me 467 attempts to make myself a Genie Weskit.

Did I feel accomplished when it finally happened? No, actually. After the first 100 attempts, it simply became an obsession. I just needed to see exactly how far the random number generator could ***** me at that point.

Being at the mercy of the random number generator is not compelling game play. Doing old Nyzul has shown me just how frustrating it is to participate in an event where you are constantly in that situation. But at least with old Nyzul, you could feel like you were making progress over time. With new Nyzul, there is no progress. You get lucky or you don't.

Check the Nyzul threads on SE and search for my name. I've offered my feedback on how to make the event more user-friendly. Even if I'm 15/15 I still go back as often as I can to help my LS members get their gear so I still have a personal stake in how "balanced" this event is.

I just used 1% because it's the number you used. Also, Voidwatch bodies are probably around 1% or perhaps even a little higher with capped lights. Weapons are likely less. As pointed out by Svlyons, being 1% doesn't mean that you will get it in any reasonable amount of time (or you may get two Anhur Robes in 3 kills, like I did). People tend to claim drop rates of rare items are lower than they actually are because they overestimate their sample size. My four pulse drops have been a result of ~650 chests, many of which were weapon NMs or couldn't drop pulse items (Qilin, Botulus, Ig Alima, Provenance BCs, etc.) I have personally been in the party for many Toci's/Anhur/Heka's/etc. drops, but I have been in the party for only one pulse weapon (Coruscanti) drop. Those are exceptionally rare.

Sorting by "defeats the ____" messages:
1/81 on Toci's Harness.
0/43 on Mekira body.
1/13 on Heka's Kalasiris
2/120 on Anhur Robe
0/8 on Voidwrought's body
0/5 on Hahava's body
0/148 on Coruscanti
0/7 on Ephemeron
0/1 on Uptala's weapon

4/270 total on bodies (~1.5%) <--- I feel I'm lucky here, so I've been saying 1%. Still, these are obviously more common than...
1/2664 total for Coruscanti assuming 18 people with cells that say something when the get Coruscanti. Even assuming a few have slipped past, we're nowhere near the 26 we'd need for 1% here.



If Nyzul was spammable, there would be less cheating. Making it spammable would ultimately require:
* A shorter event
* Infinite tags
* No reliance on 2-hours (add an NI-specific buff like Embrava with 25% movement speed)
* Removing Order lamps

I don't think it can actually be made spammable because the shorter you go the less you can rely on the law of large numbers, but it would be less of a downer to make your party and blow your 2-hour only to time out to a Floor 90 Genbu with WS restrictions if you knew you could enter again immediately. As it is, a vanilla party would basically face 4 consecutive high-performance-demanding runs (>2 hours) and at the end of the night they'd walk away with nothing the vast majority of the time.

Even with a 4% effective "drop rate" of floor 100 bodies, NI is not competitive with spending the same time in Voidwatch (assuming you value a single piece of NI armor as equal to a single piece of Voidwatch armor and ignoring the peripheral benefits). By the way, there are peripheral benefits to doing Voidwatch. I did some Celaenos last night on a mule that didn't have any stones just for XP/Cruor. If he'd had stones, he might have gotten a Laneglik for his Bard or Anhur Robe while xping/cruoring up.



Lets see if I follow this. You think not doing the event will make SE patch it so it's reasonable, but provide examples of two events that either received insufficient/no attention from SE (you said SCNMs, but I think you meant ANNMs maybe because people did SCNMs) or an event that by your own admission no one does still (WoE). So you're saying we should not do the event in protest so that SE can incompetently adjust it and it can never be reasonable (WoE), or so that they can ignore it just like us (ANNMs + a laundry list of crap events that were abandoned on release)?

I don't get it. Can you give an example of a single event that was unpopular on release and ignored, only to have SE later patch it and successfully revive the event? I can't think of one at the moment. Their patches are generally too little too late.

~~~~ Insert visions of FFXIV's future here ~~~~

Edited, Jul 3rd 2012 2:30pm by Byrthnoth