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#1 May 03 2012 at 9:28 AM Rating: Default
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Has the game completely changed from what it used to be at the 75 cap? I haven't played the game in quiet some time but I check up on the status of the changes online from time to time. So I have a handful of questions from a casual veteran player of the past.

I have never had the full amount of time in FFXI to devote to end game things of the past such as Sky, Sea and Dynamis, so I had always just been grouping for exp in the normal 6 man grind parties (which at the time was a tank, healer, refresher and 3 DD being the standard). From reading all the new changed it seems these type of groups have pretty much gone extinct and now all people want is a alliance of players with just a bunch of DD and a few healers. Is there no use for tanks anymore in the game is emnity pretty much a useless thing to have in a merit group? It seems now people will only go to Abyssea because the exp chains are unlimited now and no matter the size of the group it never diminishes, is that actually the new standard for the grouping system? There's no need to keep your time in kills higher to get chains?

I have also read of the introduction of field and grounds of valor books for the solo player which is a nice addition, but these books will let you grind on enemy's that are a way lower level then you as long as then con easy prey to get a massive amount of exp per completion of the book. This is great for people who don't have time to group but it also creates the problem of having your magic and weapons not skilled up to your current level which would result in have to find a skill up party in which to do so. Before you always kept up your skills in parties by fighting IT mobs consistently.

From what I can see Abyssea is the only thing that people will accept now from players, but in Abyssea have they created buffs you can give yourself that are so grossly overpowered you can basically solo IT without any fear of dying? I have seen that you get unlimited reraise a massive TP, HP and MP regain so resting is really irrelevant. But for the casual player who cant devote a lot of time to Abyssea to even obtain all these buffs are they only accepted into alliances now or do they have the threat of being kicked from a group because they aren't as powerful as everyone else?

I know grinding in MMO's is becoming a thing of the past, but in FFXI it was my favorite thing about it at the time. With leveling so fast you don't feel a accomplishment from getting that one of two levels a day. Getting all your new magic and WS in groups was a really exciting thing to achieve while leveling up. It seems the new player base of today is only interested in leveling super fast to get to end game and obtain gear. But for me personally who doesn't have the time to devote to end game getting that gear leveling up slower made me feel like I was achieving something great one level at a time.

I know times change and games change but FFXI is one I though that would never give in to the new way of things that people expect (the typical WoW clone way of getting exp super fast and being overpowered).

Thank you to anyone in advance for answers to any of the questions I have before deciding if returning to the game is worth a shot again. It seems all the changes are a lot to take in and it's basically a brand new game now.
#2 May 03 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Your concerns are largely unfounded. Personally I find the game more casual friendly and enjoyable than it's ever been. This is especially true if you haven't played since before Abyssea.
#3 May 03 2012 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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Zalessa wrote:
Has the game completely changed from what it used to be at the 75 cap? I haven't played the game in quiet some time but I check up on the status of the changes online from time to time. So I have a handful of questions from a casual veteran player of the past.

I have never had the full amount of time in FFXI to devote to end game things of the past such as Sky, Sea and Dynamis, so I had always just been grouping for exp in the normal 6 man grind parties (which at the time was a tank, healer, refresher and 3 DD being the standard). From reading all the new changed it seems these type of groups have pretty much gone extinct and now all people want is a alliance of players with just a bunch of DD and a few healers. Is there no use for tanks anymore in the game is emnity pretty much a useless thing to have in a merit group? It seems now people will only go to Abyssea because the exp chains are unlimited now and no matter the size of the group it never diminishes, is that actually the new standard for the grouping system? There's no need to keep your time in kills higher to get chains?


Abyssea's chaining system is different. There are two types of chains: Same kill chains, which increase the amount of exp per kill, and different kill chains, which increase the amount of cruor (sort of like IS) from each monster. Chains in Abyssea are not time limited. 18 man alliances will gladly take a "tank" class as a DD and tanks are still useful for larger NMs, but MNK is the tank of choice for a lot of things in Abyssea, followed by THF. Within events outside of Abyssea, such as Voidwatch, the classic tanks still prevail as the kings. However, you've got go be good to survive as a tank in those events.... just like the tanks of HNMs of old. Tanks are no longer used in any exp situation as far as I know.

Quote:
I have also read of the introduction of field and grounds of valor books for the solo player which is a nice addition, but these books will let you grind on enemy's that are a way lower level then you as long as then con easy prey to get a massive amount of exp per completion of the book. This is great for people who don't have time to group but it also creates the problem of having your magic and weapons not skilled up to your current level which would result in have to find a skill up party in which to do so. Before you always kept up your skills in parties by fighting IT mobs consistently.


Yep. To address this, SE increased the rate of skillups, and added skill up foods. Skilling up can be done in very small groups or solo, and goes pretty fast.

Quote:
From what I can see Abyssea is the only thing that people will accept now from players, but in Abyssea have they created buffs you can give yourself that are so grossly overpowered you can basically solo IT without any fear of dying? I have seen that you get unlimited reraise a massive TP, HP and MP regain so resting is really irrelevant. But for the casual player who cant devote a lot of time to Abyssea to even obtain all these buffs are they only accepted into alliances now or do they have the threat of being kicked from a group because they aren't as powerful as everyone else?


Getting Abyssea buffs is quite easy. Some of the "basic" buffs - the increases to stats and HP/MP - are obtained from an NPC at the start of the zone for a token amount of cruor. The rest of them, atma, are obtained by NM kills. There are a lot of shout groups and pick up groups for boss kills, and in a pinch you can stand in the area of the boss kill with your flag up and probably get invited. The two best ones are probably the two hardest, Voracious Violet and Razed Ruins, but they are still doable in a single afternoon.

Now, getting the buffs for Voidwatch is considerably more difficult, but still not completely impossible even for a casual player.

Quote:
I know grinding in MMO's is becoming a thing of the past, but in FFXI it was my favorite thing about it at the time. With leveling so fast you don't feel a accomplishment from getting that one of two levels a day. Getting all your new magic and WS in groups was a really exciting thing to achieve while leveling up. It seems the new player base of today is only interested in leveling super fast to get to end game and obtain gear. But for me personally who doesn't have the time to devote to end game getting that gear leveling up slower made me feel like I was achieving something great one level at a time.


You can still get the "incremental progress" feeling from the Abyssea gear system, which has you collecting seals and gems to upgrade your pieces over time. And if you want to level more slowly, Grounds of Valor and Fields of Valor will still let you get a level or two at a time if you only have an hour or two to play each day. (You can go from 30 to 90 if Abyssea if you have 12 hours to kill, but you won't see past level 32-33 if you only have an hour, because the same-kill exp chains take a long time to build and a level 30 won't get exp for the first 100 or so kills.)

Quote:
I know times change and games change but FFXI is one I though that would never give in to the new way of things that people expect (the typical WoW clone way of getting exp super fast and being overpowered).

Thank you to anyone in advance for answers to any of the questions I have before deciding if returning to the game is worth a shot again. It seems all the changes are a lot to take in and it's basically a brand new game now.


Give it a shot. Most of us who kept playing agreed that the changes were overall positive and a much needed shot of adrenaline for a game that was aging.
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#4 May 03 2012 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zalessa wrote:
I had always just been grouping for exp in the normal 6 man grind parties (which at the time was a tank, healer, refresher and 3 DD being the standard). From reading all the new changed it seems these type of groups have pretty much gone extinct and now all people want is a alliance of players with just a bunch of DD and a few healers. Is there no use for tanks anymore in the game is emnity pretty much a useless thing to have in a merit group? It seems now people will only go to Abyssea because the exp chains are unlimited now and no matter the size of the group it never diminishes, is that actually the new standard for the grouping system? There's no need to keep your time in kills higher to get chains?

The tank in a merit group is whoever WSed most recently, there's no need for for anyone to actively try to hold hate, but to be fair, merit parties haven't really used tanks since TP burns became the norm back during the Aht Urhgan era, so that's not a new thing.

Yes, Abyssea is easily the most standard form of getting exp, regardless of level, group size, etc... Once your "lights" are high enough, and assuming you're only killing one type of mob, even the worst parties should break 150k/hr.

Quote:
From what I can see Abyssea is the only thing that people will accept now from players, but in Abyssea have they created buffs you can give yourself that are so grossly overpowered you can basically solo IT without any fear of dying? I have seen that you get unlimited reraise a massive TP, HP and MP regain so resting is really irrelevant. But for the casual player who cant devote a lot of time to Abyssea to even obtain all these buffs are they only accepted into alliances now or do they have the threat of being kicked from a group because they aren't as powerful as everyone else?

Most jobs can solo any NQ mob in Abyssea, without even paying attention, and very few NMs take more than a healer/DD duo to kill. So yes, in Abyssea, you can gain access to ridiculous buffs. Truthfully though, for exp/merit groups no one's going to care or notice how much damage you're contributing. Most exp alliances are going to include 1-3 people that are near one-shotting all the mobs, 1-2 healer, a puller, and then ~14 other randoms that can mostly do whatever they want. You won't get booted from an Abyssea alliance, unless you're afk or something.

Not to mention the buffs are pretty simple to get with a lowman group.
Quote:
I know grinding in MMO's is becoming a thing of the past, but in FFXI it was my favorite thing about it at the time. With leveling so fast you don't feel a accomplishment from getting that one of two levels a day. Getting all your new magic and WS in groups was a really exciting thing to achieve while leveling up. It seems the new player base of today is only interested in leveling super fast to get to end game and obtain gear. But for me personally who doesn't have the time to devote to end game getting that gear leveling up slower made me feel like I was achieving something great one level at a time.

Sadly, most of the sense of accomplishment from leveling is gone, the "grind," as it were, is nearly non-existant. Although, at the same time, pretty much everything that was endgame at 75, is now solo/lowman content that a player can do at his/her leisure. For example, getting relic armor used to require a Dynamis LS, whereas now you can go in (for free, even) as a solo/duo and farm a bit. Even getting the clear shouldn't take more than 2-3 people. The Abyssea gear/buffs/clears also have the "sense of accomplishment" feeling, to an extent, and you'd gradually work through that too.
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#5 May 03 2012 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Zalessa wrote:
From what I can see Abyssea is the only thing that people will accept now from players, but in Abyssea have they created buffs you can give yourself that are so grossly overpowered you can basically solo IT without any fear of dying? I have seen that you get unlimited reraise a massive TP, HP and MP regain so resting is really irrelevant. But for the casual player who cant devote a lot of time to Abyssea to even obtain all these buffs are they only accepted into alliances now or do they have the threat of being kicked from a group because they aren't as powerful as everyone else?


Your fears are mostly unjust. There are decent Atma buffs you can obtain, with relative ease, but no one has ever been kicked for not having them. You'd be amazed how little people care for your atma's when you're in a group. People still constantly have runs for the good atma's, and you are absolutely sure to be able to join if you're not after the drops.

Secondly, while Infinite Reraise is indeed there, it still leaves you with a weakness after raising, so you wont be doing much. You just no longer have to worry about people not being able to raise you, that's all. If you continuously die and reraise on a NM in order to kill it, you will not only lose a crapload of EXP, someone can easily take it off your hands while you're down. You'd still be on the floor for atleast 10~15 seconds before the reraise kicks in leaving you helpless.

Also, the massive TP/HP/MP boost and regain isnt for free, it comes in the form of a temp item obtained by spending 2,000,000 (2mil) cruor before beating the game, and 200,000 cruor after beating the game, and lasts for only 3 minutes. Regardless of person, they wont be using it on every NM they can find, and certainly not during casual play. It's too costly to waste, so i wouldnt worry about that at all.

The atma's are strong, but no where near what you think they do. It's mostly convenience. People could Duo anything in the game before, they just have an easier time with it now.
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