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Best DD Job now?Follow

#102 Apr 21 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Default
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Any parse can have its validity neutered by one person just knowing things about the job involved.

By virtue of TP:WS split, even without knowledge of WS or even main weapon type used, I can tell you there was something wrong with your DRK that day.

48 ability damage tells me both that they used Weapon Bash a grand total of twice (Bash->Absorb-TP is a staple of chained mobs with multiple melees on them), I doubt this Dynamis was less than 15 minutes long, and that they weren't /DRG (acceptable) or /COR (silly).

There are no Darkness chains to indicated Quietus->Quietus or Distortion from Quietus->Guillotine if you just want AM1 active, so not likely /SAM or at very least any clue what Sekkanoki is or how to self-chain on DRK. Also strikes out having Redemption or Caladbolg just on a "You get them for this reason" deal, so going 50:50 just on good ODD application is out too.

/WAR is utterly misguided and pathetically defenseless. Berserk was entirely unnecessary at 75 outside of Dynamis Xarc if you just ate food, even less at level 80 or 85

But I hate to say the most likely and egregious error is that they were /THF, Naglering without 6-hitting it, Sneak Attack Spinning Slash, take hate, die. Over and over. No time to cast spells, no cover from Seigan or even lol/NIN Shadows. That's just about how doinitwrong you have to be to be turning a 50:50 split or worse.

I'm honestly curious at this point. Posting an incomplete parse summary that hides and withholds the hilarious follies of the participants is far more a transgression than that parse being picked apart and labeled as invalid or working against you.

Edited, Apr 21st 2012 4:36pm by Raelix
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#103 Apr 22 2012 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Lady Jinte wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
Quote:
Whm melee is stronger than rdm melee by a wide margin, and they don't even get half the decent melee gear rdm does. Daggers suck for damage unless you're a thf or a dnc with the JAs to pump up their weak hits, and rdm doesn't get sh*t for sword ws. Obviously I'm excluding Almace rdms, because R/M/E is a totally different beast, and if you NEED one of them to even be more than decent, it only proves my point. I don't have a problem with DD rdms, so long as they don't try to convince me they're able to out damage any equally well geared/equally competent DD job, because the gear and competence needed to make DD rdm work is pretty high end.


You just gave a rather large post berating Raelix about posting false info, then yourself post blatantly false info.

Sorry, I guess my sarcasm glands have atrophied a bit due to recent lack of use, I was being excessively false for the sake of the lolddrdm meme. Thought I came through clear Smiley: dubious


Edited, Apr 21st 2012 9:09pm by Jinte


I apologize for the response then. What you've said is exactly what I've seen uninformed players say, nearly word for word. To them if your not one of the top three melee in a fully buffed zerg and your not one of the ones buffing that zerg, then you don't matter. There is absolutely nothing you can do to argue against that mentality, it ends up ignoring large portions of the game, things that people actually spend most of their time doing.
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#104 Apr 22 2012 at 1:31 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, it used to be WHMs had an easier time getting better geared than RDM for melee, on top of having Hexa as icing, but those are the old days. And while I try not to peg possible ideal sets as standards, out of curiosity I spent a bit of time after the last patch throwing together a possible new TP set for the job and came up with this. The hardcore number crunchers could probably tweak some things, and something like Ephemeron could offset the rarity of the belt for your Haste needs, but it's all progress from 75. Only annoying thing about the link is it isn't adding stats properly, and if you're using Req over CDC, the crystal sword may also be better. So I manually added them. x.x

Assume the magian sword is STR. DEX on Almace is assumed +10.

Haste: +26%
Dual Wield: +5%
Sword Skill: +5
ATK: +84 (Add another +20.5 from STR)
ACC: +25 (Add another +7.5 from DEX)
EVA: +10 (Add another +6.5 from AGI)
STR: +41
DEX: +15
AGI: +13
INT: +13
MND: +13
Store TP: +15
Subtle Blow: +9 (Plus possible dAGI benefits)
Double Attack: +11%
Critical Hit Rate: +6% (Assuming full latent)
Enmity: +5
Damage Taken: +12% (Assuming full latent)


Maybe its biggest weakness is being ACC light, but good luck convincing people to let a RDM near something where ACC is a concern, anyway.
#105 Apr 22 2012 at 3:57 AM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
Quote:
Whm melee is stronger than rdm melee by a wide margin, and they don't even get half the decent melee gear rdm does. Daggers suck for damage unless you're a thf or a dnc with the JAs to pump up their weak hits, and rdm doesn't get sh*t for sword ws. Obviously I'm excluding Almace rdms, because R/M/E is a totally different beast, and if you NEED one of them to even be more than decent, it only proves my point. I don't have a problem with DD rdms, so long as they don't try to convince me they're able to out damage any equally well geared/equally competent DD job, because the gear and competence needed to make DD rdm work is pretty high end.


You just gave a rather large post berating Raelix about posting false info, then yourself post blatantly false info.

Sorry, I guess my sarcasm glands have atrophied a bit due to recent lack of use, I was being excessively false for the sake of the lolddrdm meme. Thought I came through clear Smiley: dubious


Edited, Apr 21st 2012 9:09pm by Jinte


I apologize for the response then. What you've said is exactly what I've seen uninformed players say, nearly word for word. To them if your not one of the top three melee in a fully buffed zerg and your not one of the ones buffing that zerg, then you don't matter. There is absolutely nothing you can do to argue against that mentality, it ends up ignoring large portions of the game, things that people actually spend most of their time doing.


That was what I was going for, have you just forgotten that I'm not actually one of those superhardcoreonlzergscount players? I mean, I've sort of been berating Raelix for blatantly being one... Smiley: lol

Seriha wrote:
Yeah, it used to be WHMs had an easier time getting better geared than RDM for melee, on top of having Hexa as icing, but those are the old days. And while I try not to peg possible ideal sets as standards, out of curiosity I spent a bit of time after the last patch throwing together a possible new TP set for the job and came up with this. The hardcore number crunchers could probably tweak some things, and something like Ephemeron could offset the rarity of the belt for your Haste needs, but it's all progress from 75. Only annoying thing about the link is it isn't adding stats properly, and if you're using Req over CDC, the crystal sword may also be better. So I manually added them. x.x

Assume the magian sword is STR. DEX on Almace is assumed +10.

Haste: +26%
Dual Wield: +5%
Sword Skill: +5
ATK: +84 (Add another +20.5 from STR)
ACC: +25 (Add another +7.5 from DEX)
EVA: +10 (Add another +6.5 from AGI)
STR: +41
DEX: +15
AGI: +13
INT: +13
MND: +13
Store TP: +15
Subtle Blow: +9 (Plus possible dAGI benefits)
Double Attack: +11%
Critical Hit Rate: +6% (Assuming full latent)
Enmity: +5
Damage Taken: +12% (Assuming full latent)


Maybe its biggest weakness is being ACC light, but good luck convincing people to let a RDM near something where ACC is a concern, anyway.

Can't see the set, I think you have it set to private or my AH settings are borked, or you linked it wrong? idk. Anyway, I'm assuming Almace/99StrPathSword, /nin, but I can't pick up what the other gear is from memory based on the stats you gave, mostly because It's been so long since I played Smiley: laugh, otherwise I'd crunch it out for you. I can try to slap together a set with those stats, ish, or see if I can't find something a tad better. What's your base Str/Dex/Mnd on rdm/nin?

edit: Whipped together a set that takes the stats you had and the gear I recognized and accounts for that horribad amount of acc; this set could be adjusted with atk pieces, provided they exist (I didn't bother looking) as needed, since iirc composure has an acc buff on it, but idk how much. Also, Since you're talking almace, you'd probably want the dex tom sword, because wow does rdm get **** for decent dex gear options Smiley: dubious (Remember; these are just spitball numbers, it is 6am here, so if I fudged something, don't crucify me. Rdm99/Nin49
Sword: 398+16 -> 414

Main: Almace 90 
	90: Dmg 61 Delay 224 Dex+15 
Off: Shikargar (Dex) 
	Dmg 61 Delay 230 Dex+11 Acc+16 
Ammo: Oneiros Pebble 
	Vit+5 Acc+4 
Head: Zelus Tiara 
	Eva-5 Haste+8% 
Neck: Rancor Collar 
	Acc+6 Crit Rate+5% 
Ear: Suppanomimi 
	DW+5% Sword Skill+5  
Ear: Brutal Earring 
	DA+5% STP+1 
Body: Kudzu Aketon 
	Str+10 Agi+10 Atk+13 R.Atk+13 DA+3% STP+5 
Hands: Brego Gloves 
	Str+5 Agi+5 Acc+9 Haste+4% 
Ring: Rajas Ring 
	Str+5 Dex+5 STP+5 SB+5 
Ring: Epona's Ring 
	DA+3% TA+3% 
Back: Atheling Mantle 
	Atk+20 DA+3% 
Waist: Phos Belt 
	Haste +7% 
Legs: Rubeus Spats 
	Str+10 Int+13 Mnd+13 Acc+10 Eva+10 Haste+3% 
Feet: Ghadhab Nails 
	Atk+15 Haste+3% Enmity+5 DT+2%



Haste: 25% -> With spell -> 190 effective delay
DW: 30% -> Delay 317.8 Prehaste -> 4.8tp/hit -> STP: 5.3 TP/hit
Str: 94+30 -> 124
Atk: +48 (Base 427 before str/gear) -> ~543
Dex: 95+36 -> 131
Acc: +45 (Base 392 before dex/gear) -> ~502
DA: 14%
TA: 3%
Crit: 5%
STP: +11
Mnd: 88


Edited, Apr 22nd 2012 5:57am by Jinte
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#106 Apr 22 2012 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Close, I'm using

Almace / STR Sword
Ranged / Ammo: Demon Core or the M.acc +8 chakram depending

http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets/?id=257172

The Body is DW +3 Atk +10

RDM can't actually use Epona's ring
Changes I would like to make are,

Body: Finally a Decent TP body piece
Kudzu Aketon
Str+10 Agi+10 Atk+13 R.Atk+13 DA+3% STP+5

If Acc is an issue (anything non fodder)
Legs:
Rubeus Spats
Str+10 Int+13 Mnd+13 Acc+10 Eva+10 Haste+3%

RDM, like most 1H jobs has a serious attack deficit. It's made worse because without native DW we can't go /WAR like BLU / NIN / DNC / THF can. Attack sword tends to be your best option even if spamming CDC. This is of course assuming your ok accuracy wise, if your not then swapping Rubeus legs and Acc sword would be a better option. I went with DW+3 Atk+10 because rarely do I have an acc issue on the things I melee on with RDM, same reason I use Calm over my Rub spats.

Buffs @500 Enhancing
Temper: 20% Double Attack
Enspell: +30 damage per hit
Gain-Stat: STR if spamming Req on lower level / defense targets, DEX if spamming CDC. +25 of either
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#107 Apr 22 2012 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
I personally use Calmecac Trousers instead of rubeos for TPing unless you really need the acc. Also I don't think rdm is on Epona's

The main advantage whm had at 75 over rdm was they had far superior choices in haste gear and were one of the few jobs that could hit Gear haste cap. Now rdm is sporting far superior TPing gear and weaponskill gear and while certain pieces are helping that front for whm we have been left in the dust in terms of gear choices. Right now the only advantage I see us having is that we can cap haste without using body. However unless you have an ACP body for mages that really doesn't open up whm to a lot of omg GOOD choices for DDing. The only advantage they get from that is still being able to wear a refresh piece besides giving up that slot for 10ish acc.

Now the only edge we got is an easy to obtain strong weaponskill while rdms would have to go out and get an empyreon to compete with it.

Edit: beaten on epona'sXD

Edited, Apr 22nd 2012 8:39am by Laxedrane
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#108 Apr 22 2012 at 6:43 AM Rating: Decent
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RDM can now cap haste without body piece, my above setup has Haste capped. RDM at 75 sucked in the Leg / Body department for gear, Hands / Feet were Dusk +1, Head was W.Turban and the rest was standard issue stuff.
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#109 Apr 22 2012 at 7:17 AM Rating: Decent
saevellakshmi wrote:
RDM can now cap haste without body piece, my above setup has Haste capped. RDM at 75 sucked in the Leg / Body department for gear, Hands / Feet were Dusk +1, Head was W.Turban and the rest was standard issue stuff.

*Crumbles up his paper and tosses it behind him* Well ****
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#110 Apr 22 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lol, the thread has now been completely taken over to talk about melee rdm.... Only thing that surprises me is it took 3 pages to get there, 8')

Oh, and the best DD job is wholly determined by the person sitting behind the computer making the decision to learn their job, get the gear, and push themselves to work their **** off to surpass anyone else in DPS, (which can potentially be any number of jobs)

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#111TybudX, Posted: Apr 22 2012 at 11:37 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They had to talk about how devastating PUP damage is compared to all those other gimped, non-pet ones.
#112 Apr 22 2012 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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Feel good post from 2004
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#113 Apr 22 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Link should hopefully work now. If not, AH is dumb. I'll spoiler the gear list just in case.
Almace
STR Shikargar
Lanner Bow +1
Zelus Tiara
Rancor Collar
Suppanomimi
Brutal Earring
Kudzu Aketon
Brego Gloves
Tyrant's Ring
Rajas Ring
Atheling Mantle
Phos Belt +1
Rubeus Spats
Ghadhab Nails


Quote:
Lol, the thread has now been completely taken over to talk about melee rdm.... Only thing that surprises me is it took 3 pages to get there, 8')

If you wanna call a few posts "taking over" with the peanut gallery snark following, then by all means, but as a job that's historically taken its share of **** from the community when someone playing it tries to deviate from the expected norm (in part perpetuated by SE's neglect), at the very least, comparing today's RDM to 2009's or earlier is just plain dumb. Unfortunately, the changes it has received, both as a caster and melee, don't really add up to much compared to other jobs. Certainly doesn't help that players within the job itself would merrily hack off one part if it meant improving the other instead of better trying to synergize. And, of course, you'll further get the peanut gallery of outside players imposing their beliefs upon the job, often because they saw a solo video at some point or didn't get invited to a merit party because a RDM was seeking. Funnier still, certain individuals get so butthurt that RDM was even mentioned they try reporting the posts to admins in a pitiful hope for censorship. Vile RDM propaganda, I tells ya. Shame it finally took the cap increases for some to realize the job wasn't as godly as hyped and problems some of us have been pointing at for years just intensified. I'll believe SE's phantom enfeebling adjustments promised long ago when they actually happen, and even then, the enfeebling game is shoddy in its current incarnation for RDM.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2012 4:09pm by Seriha
#114 Apr 22 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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This thread is still going? What an amazing troll post.

Quote:
To them if your not one of the top three melee in a fully buffed zerg and your not one of the ones buffing that zerg, then you don't matter. There is absolutely nothing you can do to argue against that mentality, it ends up ignoring large portions of the game, things that people actually spend most of their time doing.


Well, I'm the polar opposite, but I can see why it'd come up in a thread like this. When arguing for the top DD, I assume people want the one with the highest ceiling.

On mobs that don't require all the buffs, jobs like BST, BLU, and PUP can dominate... but no one would really call them top-tier endgame damage dealers.

Quote:
Shame it finally took the cap increases for some to realize the job wasn't as godly as hyped and problems some of us have been pointing at for years just intensified.


It was only so amazing because it had the best sustain of any mage at 75, thus making it a more useful healer than WHM for merit parties and low-man fights. I don't think anyone really considered it overpowered, unless they were mad about the solo's that could be done by most any job with movement speed.

Not gonna lie though, as someone who was RDM at the 75 cap, I can't even fathom playing it today. The spells aren't enticing enough, and if I want a sword/magic hybrid, BLU is almost universally superior for the role.
#115 Apr 22 2012 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Can't fault ya for that observation because it's pretty much true.
#116 Apr 22 2012 at 4:02 PM Rating: Default
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To be fair, I'm pretty sure any thread about anything on any forum involving the people posting here would have devolved into a melee RDM discussion eventually.
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BG elitists <3 haste.

Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.

Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right


kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
#117 Apr 22 2012 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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Fantus wrote:
Lol, the thread has now been completely taken over to talk about melee rdm.... Only thing that surprises me is it took 3 pages to get there, 8')

Seriha's Law.
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#118 Apr 22 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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TybudX wrote:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure any thread about anything on any forum involving the people posting here would have devolved into a melee RDM discussion eventually.

that's the addendum. The actual law is Mellowy's law, where in any thread at all on any forum can and will be turned into mellowy **** about smn. If he doesn't do it first, then it'll get turned into a DD rdm thread, and that's only because the thfs seem to have completely given up, otherwise they'd be #2.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
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Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#119 Apr 22 2012 at 10:45 PM Rating: Default
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Most people who take THF seriously are capable of figuring out that the benefit of using a THF for TH is outweighed by just plain killing things faster for more drops over time, as well as which situations warrant bringing a THF just for TH. Everybody moved on to DNC, just like SE wanted.
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Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.

Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.

Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right


kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
#120 Apr 22 2012 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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ItsAMyri wrote:
Not gonna lie though, as someone who was RDM at the 75 cap, I can't even fathom playing it today. The spells aren't enticing enough, and if I want a sword/magic hybrid, BLU is almost universally superior for the role in every way.

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#121 Apr 23 2012 at 12:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aliekber wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:
Not gonna lie though, as someone who was RDM at the 75 cap, I can't even fathom playing it today. The spells aren't enticing enough, and if I want a sword/magic hybrid, BLU is almost universally superior for the role in every way.



Smiley: nod



Honestly, though, coming from Aliekbar I don't think it's bragging about blu, but lamenting about rdm.
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#122 Apr 23 2012 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:
Not gonna lie though, as someone who was RDM at the 75 cap, I can't even fathom playing it today. The spells aren't enticing enough, and if I want a sword/magic hybrid, BLU is almost universally superior for the role in every way.



RDM is more of a defensive hybrid while BLU is more of an offensive hybrid. I'm perfectly cool with that though. That's the way it should've been.

I'm interested to see the new gear RDM can wear to cap haste without body. I can't see the FFXIAH link.
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#123 Apr 23 2012 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Zafire wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:
Not gonna lie though, as someone who was RDM at the 75 cap, I can't even fathom playing it today. The spells aren't enticing enough, and if I want a sword/magic hybrid, BLU is almost universally superior for the role in every way.



RDM is more of a defensive hybrid while BLU is more of an offensive hybrid. I'm perfectly cool with that though. That's the way it should've been.

I'm interested to see the new gear RDM can wear to cap haste without body. I can't see the FFXIAH link.


http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets/?id=257172

Quote:
input /equip neck "Rancor Collar";
input /equip back "Atheling Mantle";
input /equip feet "Eurus' Ledelsens";
input /equip legs "Calmecac Trousers";
input /equip waist "Phasmida Belt";
input /equip ring1 "Rajas Ring";
input /equip ring2 "Tyrant's Ring";
input /equip head "Zelus Tiara";
input /equip hands "Brego Gloves";
input /equip ear1 "Brutal Earring";
input /equip main "Shikargar";
input /equip sub "Almace";
input /equip ear2 "Suppanomimi";
input /equip body "Royal Redingote";


Puts you at 25% Haste (technically something like 24.6) with the body slot free for AJ / ACP / Kudzu. There also is a 5% haste body piece now with Mac.acc, drops from Morta the same NM that drops the Kudzu.

RDM can be a beast in small groups, the types that tend not to have a dedicated healer nor BRD rotations. Recently did a Dyna Beaucidine run with friends, we needed to get my Attestation for my Rag, my friends Attestation for his Xcal, then kill the Attestation NM's for the Katana and Dagger five times each. We farmed all the pop items, killed the NMs, had to do the RDM/PLD one four or five times cause he didn't want to drop Attestation of Righteousness, and got everyone their stuff done in one run. RDM's survival skills really shined in that run as I frequently had to run off on my own or two or more Hydra's.

Problem with RDM is it requires a ton of gear and a ton of work to get right. 500 Enhancing built, full haste TP build, WS Build, MND enfeeble build, INT enfeeble build, Cure build, Fast Cast Utsu set. Leaves you very little extra space, using Req helps a bit as it shares gear with your MND enfeebling set, and requires lots of macro work and most importantly the ability to make snap judgements about the situation. I can imagine PUP being in a very similar situation.
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#124 Apr 23 2012 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Zafire wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
ItsAMyri wrote:
Not gonna lie though, as someone who was RDM at the 75 cap, I can't even fathom playing it today. The spells aren't enticing enough, and if I want a sword/magic hybrid, BLU is almost universally superior for the role in every way.



RDM is more of a defensive hybrid while BLU is more of an offensive hybrid. I'm perfectly cool with that though. That's the way it should've been.

I'm interested to see the new gear RDM can wear to cap haste without body. I can't see the FFXIAH link.


http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets/?id=257172

Quote:
input /equip neck "Rancor Collar";
input /equip back "Atheling Mantle";
input /equip feet "Eurus' Ledelsens";
input /equip legs "Calmecac Trousers";
input /equip waist "Phasmida Belt";
input /equip ring1 "Rajas Ring";
input /equip ring2 "Tyrant's Ring";
input /equip head "Zelus Tiara";
input /equip hands "Brego Gloves";
input /equip ear1 "Brutal Earring";
input /equip main "Shikargar";
input /equip sub "Almace";
input /equip ear2 "Suppanomimi";
input /equip body "Royal Redingote";


Puts you at 25% Haste (technically something like 24.6) with the body slot free for AJ / ACP / Kudzu. There also is a 5% haste body piece now with Mac.acc, drops from Morta the same NM that drops the Kudzu.

RDM can be a beast in small groups, the types that tend not to have a dedicated healer nor BRD rotations. Recently did a Dyna Beaucidine run with friends, we needed to get my Attestation for my Rag, my friends Attestation for his Xcal, then kill the Attestation NM's for the Katana and Dagger five times each. We farmed all the pop items, killed the NMs, had to do the RDM/PLD one four or five times cause he didn't want to drop Attestation of Righteousness, and got everyone their stuff done in one run. RDM's survival skills really shined in that run as I frequently had to run off on my own or two or more Hydra's.

Problem with RDM is it requires a ton of gear and a ton of work to get right. 500 Enhancing built, full haste TP build, WS Build, MND enfeeble build, INT enfeeble build, Cure build, Fast Cast Utsu set. Leaves you very little extra space, using Req helps a bit as it shares gear with your MND enfeebling set, and requires lots of macro work and most importantly the ability to make snap judgements about the situation. I can imagine PUP being in a very similar situation.

You can get that last round off 1% haste, too. If you're willing to sacrifice 5 STP, anyway, which shouldn't really be a huge loss for a 1h using job.

But the weird thing about pup and gear is that it's only gear intensive if you let it be, and it's somewhat more lenient with it in that you don't need to carry most of your sets at once, because while we're able to adjust for ohshi- moments, our real versatility comes from being able to be pre-adjusted and fill in a role, like, can't find a [blank]? get the pup, and they can probably fill the role well enough (save tanking, which is really the only thing we can't due, and that's almost due to enmity generation rather than actual survivability. We can solo tank like champs with soulsoother and a decent eva set up Smiley: laugh).

For pup, I basically have two sets of sets, which if I'm on pup, I carry only one or the other in my bag, but typically the one I'm not using is in my satchel if I need to switch quickly.

Melee Sets: (For these sets, there's a lot of blending between them; all of them share nearly all of their pieces with at least one other set, though there are a couple that are 1-set pieces)
- Haste/TP set 1 (Favors stats for me; used if I'm rocking a mage pet and don't really need to worry about it meleeing))
- Haste/TP set 2 (Favors stats for the pet; used if I'm rocking a melee pet and need to worry about it meleeing, but it's almost identical at this point due to gear upgrades for the first and nothing to upgrade for this one, such that using the pet favoring pieces is more of a loss than using the ones that favor me. I keep it for situations where I'm not meleeing, but my pet is, for whatever reason.)
- WS set (Just stringing pummel, since I haven't actually played enough since their introduction to bother getting shijin spiral yet, and the difference between it and stringing pummel is almost nothing most of the time)
- Tank/Solo set 1 (Favors offense, mostly my TP set with some eva/subtle blow/pdt pieces thrown in)
- Tank/solo set 2 (Favors defense, for higher accuracy mobs, and by defense I mean evasion)

Universal Sets: (I only usually carry one in my main inventory at a time, if at all. it depends on what I'm fighting)
- Kiting set (Mostly the same as tank/solo 2, but takes out anything actually necessary for damage, in favor of pure survival.)
- PDT set
- MDT set
- Regen set (This is a habit I got into from being a galka mnk for so long. I always carry several regen pieces for the job I'm on, even if I don't need/use them, entirely out of habit. Mnk's the only job I add an hHP set for, though Smiley: lol)

Non-melee Sets: (Read: /sch, mostly, since I'm too lazy to level /whm and /rdm, though they're on the list of things to do whenever I get back to playing regularly)
- Max MP set (Necessary because galka)
- Refresh/Idle
- Regen/Refresh Idle (Originally, it was for charging sublimation, but that was before sch got stoneskin natively. Now it's for charging sublimation if I'm also doing something that prevents me from casting stoneskin, because it's easier to swap in a 2hp/tick regen than to light arts->stop moving->cast stoneskin)
- Sleep set
- Drain/Aspir set 1 (M.acc heavy, for making sure they don't get resisted, or for when I'm stacking with alacrity)
- Drain/Aspir set 2 (Haste heavy for when I'm not stacking with alacrity and don't need the m.acc)

Pet Sets: (I'm an extremist here, most pups only have an ice maneuver set, and that's only if they frequently use spiritreaver and know that an ice maneuver set helps a lot)
- Ice Maneuver set (read: maneuver/overload gear, and **** of INT; used for when I'm spamming ice maneuvers while nuking, and the only maneuver set I always have on me)
- Water Maneuver set (read: maneuver/overload gear, and **** of MND; used for when I'm spamming ice maneuvers and having **** luck with my overload rate)
- Light Maneuver set (read: maneuver/overload gear, and **** of CHR; only really used if I'm playing full healer, where light maneuvers get aaaaalll sorts of spammy)
- Wind Maneuver set (read: maneuver/overload gear, and **** of AGI; used for when I'm using sharpshot and making liberal use of the barrage turbine)
Note: The fire maneuver consuming attachment doesn't warrant spamming fire maneuvers enough to bother with a str set, their is no thunder maneuver consuming attachment, so no reason to spam them, and it's **** impossible to get the vit necessary to make an earth maneuver spamming set, even for a galka, because we get absolutely **** all for vit gear, and the only puppet that warrants earth spam, valoredge, has really high base vit to start with, even before the 8/16/24 extra it gets from maneuvers, which we just can't match. Dark maneuvers are nearly impossible to overload to begin with, but their "stat" is MP, ie: having more MP (full MP, not max MP) than the puppet, so for the melee frames, 1 MP merit is enough, and for the mage frame, which have ~1k base MP, having more than the pet is impossible until they're really low, at which point you're going to deactivate them anyway.

All of my sets are generically situational, not super situational, so I usually know before hand what sets I'll need quick access to.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#125 Apr 23 2012 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Lady Jinte wrote:
TybudX wrote:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure any thread about anything on any forum involving the people posting here would have devolved into a melee RDM discussion eventually.

that's the addendum. The actual law is Mellowy's law, where in any thread at all on any forum can and will be turned into mellowy **** about smn. If he doesn't do it first, then it'll get turned into a DD rdm thread, and that's only because the thfs seem to have completely given up, otherwise they'd be #2.


Thf is not even close in QQ powa to RDM.

Well maybe, but if you take out Lobi it's no contest.

But you're right that some of us have given up.

This is why I lawl at the use of the word "balance".


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#126 Apr 24 2012 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Best DD is a meaningless question without 2 parameters.

1: Mob type/event/situation. What situation is being considered? VW? EP Dynamis? No brd? Solo? Wtf are you killing.

2: assumed equipment level. Best dd assuming best gear MRE? The strongest dd with MRE is not the same as best dd using ah gear. You need to determine what level of proficiency you assume in any comparison.

'Best dd' title is useless and futile to discuss without parameters and you all are silly for even engaging in this waste of time as if anyone would actually 'win' such an undefined trophy. Narrow the focus and talks can get real or waste your time bashing your heads together thinking you won't get a headache.
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#127 Apr 24 2012 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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The best DD is someone that is not brain dead and can follow directions. Having the best gear/job does little if you don't know how to use, it's like giving a F-22 to a cave man..
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#128 Apr 25 2012 at 4:10 AM Rating: Good
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TheBarrister wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
TybudX wrote:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure any thread about anything on any forum involving the people posting here would have devolved into a melee RDM discussion eventually.

that's the addendum. The actual law is Mellowy's law, where in any thread at all on any forum can and will be turned into mellowy **** about smn. If he doesn't do it first, then it'll get turned into a DD rdm thread, and that's only because the thfs seem to have completely given up, otherwise they'd be #2.


Thf is not even close in QQ powa to RDM.

Well maybe, but if you take out Lobi it's no contest.

But you're right that some of us have given up.

This is why I lawl at the use of the word "balance".

It's not so much that thf had more QQ power, as that there was someone wrangling rdms and keeping their QQ mostly contained to their forum for along time, but yea, I was mostly referencing lobi, Smiley: laugh

Banalaty wrote:
Best DD is a meaningless question without 2 parameters.

1: Mob type/event/situation. What situation is being considered? VW? EP Dynamis? No brd? Solo? Wtf are you killing.

2: assumed equipment level. Best dd assuming best gear MRE? The strongest dd with MRE is not the same as best dd using ah gear. You need to determine what level of proficiency you assume in any comparison.

'Best dd' title is useless and futile to discuss without parameters and you all are silly for even engaging in this waste of time as if anyone would actually 'win' such an undefined trophy. Narrow the focus and talks can get real or waste your time bashing your heads together thinking you won't get a headache.

This is pretty much the point I was trying to make, I was just being more round about with it.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#129 Apr 26 2012 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Saevellakshmi, you're linking your FFXIAH item sets wrong. You're giving people links to the page to edit the item set, which no one can see except you. At the top of your page to edit the item set, it gives you the URL for the general public. It's a very similar URL except it doesn't have "/members" in it.

Here's the correct link for the one you've been trying to share:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/257172

Also... I'm very jealous of the gear RDM can wear for melee... here's my WHM TP set:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/149320
Not much that can be improved on it either, sadly. Could do DW Redingote if it wasn't so hideously ugly. Could also do Ghillie+1 instead of Evergreen Earring, I suppose. Maybe Ziel Charm, Prudence Torque, or Inquisitor's Chain for a neck piece. There's really nothing else to be had, though.

P.S. I had a friend who's better at melee damage formulas than me (Rya) do the math on the Hasty Pinion. Assuming you have 25% haste, the last 1% is rarely, if ever, worth STP-5.

Edited, Apr 26th 2012 9:59am by Pergatory
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#130 Apr 26 2012 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Pergatory wrote:
P.S. I had a friend who's better at melee damage formulas than me (Rya) do the math on the Hasty Pinion. Assuming you have 25% haste, the last 1% is rarely, if ever, worth STP-5.

That's the feeling I got from looking at it, too. I didn't bother to math it out because it felt like it wouldn't be worth the time, but I figured I'd point it out because my experience in discussions like this is, "If I don't include a comment on it, someone's going to yell at me for not including it, so I might as well acknowledge its existence, if nothing else"
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#132AlexFitz, Posted: Oct 27 2012 at 8:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) how about the best Damage Dealer in the MOST situations..
#133 Oct 27 2012 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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lrn2datestamp
Also there is no answer to your question. "Most" is subjective, as will be any answer to it. It's like asking what Halloween candy is the best.


The answer is Peppermint Patties btw.
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#134AlexFitz, Posted: Oct 27 2012 at 10:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, because if you were to ask "What Halloween Candy has the most Calories?" Youd know the answer
#135 Oct 27 2012 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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This site was much better when this thread was buried.
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#136 Oct 27 2012 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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MNK.

/thread
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#138 Oct 27 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Geomancer. oh wait, never mind, they aren't even out yet....but I just had to be a smart ass, carry on....

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#139 Oct 27 2012 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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#140 Oct 28 2012 at 5:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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This whole "who's the best DD on paper" argument reminds me of my old LS. We used to farm sky a lot, and people were getting burned out, but I noticed something a lot of you are taking for granted.

I was usually BLM. I won't go as far to say it was boring, but I definitely wasn't as engaged as I could have been. But then I leveled NIN, and took that to sky farming sessions. It was new, I was engaging quickly, using my JA's, counting shadows, weaponskilling on time, doing everything I could to play the job to the best of my ability. I loved BLM then, it was my main, and I had good gear for the time. My NIN was fairly new, and I was missing some key pieces, (Byakko's in particular) but my contribution was relatively greater on NIN, not because of gear, but simply because of my level of focus.

Paper can show you a lot of things, but it can't show you the intangibles. Like that Taru melee who goes out of his way to maximize every bit of hp he has, by putting a few pieces of hp gear here and there on the top lines of his macro, so that his pdt/mdt set, weaponskill set, tp set, utsusemi set etc, all have nearly the same hp so not much is wasted. Or how about that Galka mage, that casts non skill dependent buffs in his max mp set before switching over to skill/potency.

TL;DR Theoretical arguments can only take you so far. Just like everything else in life, the human factor must be accounted for. I'll take the guy that's engaged, and taking his role seriously (with sensible gear), over the elite who half asses it, thinking he wins just by showing up.
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#141 Oct 28 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Fermion wrote:

TL;DR Theoretical arguments can only take you so far. Just like everything else in life, the human factor must be accounted for. I'll take the guy that's engaged, and taking his role seriously (with sensible gear), over the elite who half asses it, thinking he wins just by showing up.


An elite who half asses it, isn't elite.

Theory approaches reality far more than the kumbayah's give it credit for.
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#142 Oct 28 2012 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whether you're skilled or terrible, you're going to see improved results from upgrading to a mathematically superior build.

If DRK > RNG, it doesn't mean that every DRK is better than every RNG, or that you should always choose DRK over RNG, it just means that the same amount of effort and skill gets you more power as DRK than RNG.

Incidentally, in any situation where you actually have both the time and buffs to reach your maximum potential, every DD is so gloriously overpowered that this discussion is rendered irrelevant.
#143 Oct 28 2012 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
An elite who half asses it, isn't elite.


Based on my definition of an elite, as an mmo player with well over a decade of active experience, it's simply someone with elite gear, it's never had anything to do with ability. That's been the generally accepted understanding for as long as I can remember. And we all know that everyone with elite gear is just such an awesome player right? But whatever, I'm sure you wouldn't be trying to play the semantics game just to "win".

Quote:
Theory approaches reality far more than the kumbayah's give it credit for.


Take this example:

Player A is a solid player, who doesn't have all of the latest greatest gear. Lets say he's 5% below optimum, but he's very engaged and paying attention.

Player B is an elite (my definition). He thinks so much of himself, that he's in /t laughing with his elite buddies about how he's going to destroy Player A.

The mob is popped, Player A is on it, he has an <stnpc> macro waiting to go, and he engages as fast as his connection allows. Player B on the other hand doesn't notice immediately, and it takes him an extra second to engage. Who wins?

New example:

All things being equal, say the elite still has a 5% higher ceiling than Player A. In the grand scheme of things, they're both only DDs, and that 5% really doesn't mean much individually.

Let's say the mob has 150k hp and there are 6 DDs in this 1 minute zerg. 150,000 / 60 = 2,500 dps for the alliance.

That comes out to 416 dps per DD. 416 * .95 = 395 dps for Player A.

Substitute Player A for the elite means Player A will take 63s (5% longer) to do 25k. 25,000 / 395 = 63s. But, it's not like the rest of the party disappears for those final 3 seconds, and in .6s, the damage will be made up by the combined damage of the other DDs. So in all reality, you've lost about .6s making the change.

Make all the witty remarks you like, that doesn't change the fact that the contribution of a single DD in a zerg is really not as important as you're trying to make it seem.
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#144 Oct 28 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Being the biggest, baddest DD has never been about winning, it's just the easiest form of epeen to measure. You can't really gloat about how hard you tanked a mob or how much you cured, and since the amount of damage taken varies, you can't even say you did a better job because you healed more.

DD potential has never been dreadfully relevant, it's just everyones favorite topic to brag and argue about.

It's also very easy to math, like determining which car would win a race in a straight line without air resistance or varying terrain.
#145 Oct 28 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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"Best DD" is a very situation decision. Zergs tend to favor jobs that have high damage ceilings, basically the ones that respond the best to buffs (WAR / DRK / MNK and sometimes DRG / SAM).

Damage output does matter, especially now that everything can kill you in 60s or less given the opportunity. It's become "kill it before it kills you", so the faster you can output damage the faster it's dead and the less chance it has of spamming it's JP button. For the support crew it's a bit harder to quantify but you can always tell the people who know their **** and the ones who played it only in abyssea and never bothered to gear it properly. I do track amount of HP cured, though a better estimate is how fast does the healer respond to hp damage. Better healers will be using lots of Curaga's and rarely will your HP be anywhere near 50% for more then a second or two. They'll be doing 25 Boost-STR spells, Accession Stoneskin and such prior to a fight (WHM/SCH). Your BRD / COR will be landing their buffs fast and also be helping out using their alternative abilities (status removing for BRD, WF damage for COR).

I always thank my support crew when their awesome, melee's can't do **** without a competent support crew. No matter how big bad / amazing a DD is, their nothing without their support. On the flip side, no amount of support can fix a mediocre DD. Which brings me to a point I need to make, being a melee is about more then swapping between TP and WS macros. There is a level of focus that is needed to time everything, especially when your so buffed that your time between WS's is down to 7s or less on average. They need to learn to anticipate their TP gain so to hit the TP macro the moment it's at 100 and then to immediately (before WS animation finish's) be spamming their TP macro to get back into TP gear. Need to have macros for various JA's and need to know how to best use those JA's, not only for themselves but for their melee party (BR / Savagery Warcry / Circles / ect..). Running as many parses as I do, it becomes easy to spot the melee's who put 110% effort into playing and those who put less then 100% yet have tons of nice gear.
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#146 Oct 28 2012 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
MNK.

/thread

What she said.
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#147 Oct 29 2012 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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ep dynamis?

bst /endthread

...

Oh wait, not, keep arguring :P
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#148 Oct 29 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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You know, a DD is only as good as a person can make it. I've seen a MNK outparse everyone in a group, i've seen a DRK outparse everyone in a group and i've seen just about any other pure DD outparse everyone in a group at any one time.

If you have 5 diffirent people on 5 diffirent jobs who all put the exact same amount of crazy amounts of effort, time and gil into their job, sure, one job has to come out on top. Which job that is, is irrelevant, since no one has anything close to it.

Sometimes the best person you find in your group is a WAR, another time it's a SAM, it could just as well be a DRK, COR, RNG, or anything. There simply isnt an "end-all-be-all" job, as much as people want it to be so, or think it is so. All jobs have pro's and con's, diffirent playing styles and completely diffirent weapons.

In the end it really does just come down to how you want your playing style to be or what weapon you want to use. Oh, and ofcourse if you have crazy amounts of gil and time to boost your one job.
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#149 Oct 29 2012 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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Half way through the second page I couldn't read anymore because things were getting too cyclical. However, it did remind me of something we did in WoW to mess with parsers years ago.

I played with a wildly eccentric rogue (think hybrid between DRK damage and THF play style in ffxi) who went by the in-game-name Bodes, and he was one who would vigilantly push for the Top Damage spot every event. In WoW, it's very common and practical to use damage metering tools, and it's widely accepted as a simple way of seeing overall effectiveness of a group of players, but in almost every case, the "top damage" spots were not the best players, but instead the ones who were willing to "do things wrong" just for the sake of inflating those numbers, weather this means staying in the fire a little longer to get more swings, letting an enemy charm you where, while charmed, your damage is 100x what it normally is while killing your own party members, or becoming a living bomb just for the sake of that giant A.O.E explosion adding into your final tally. A few of us had multiple characters with different job classes, and we'd even have a sort of pact to keep one another alive as a higher priority over the "lesser" members of our guild (wow version of linkshell). Don't get me wrong, we all had fun doing these things, and we were good enough to win even with those... alternative methods... but it definitely wasn't the most "right", most "beneficial" or "sportsmanlike" method of playing.

Bodes was genuinely frustrated whenever he didn't place in first slot, and some events were designed to very largely favor a certain job / class or damage type (enemies who can only be damaged by fire, bosses who's scripted way to be fought involved a mage stealing their super powerful buffs that made their damage go 'way' up etc). Generally we'd rotate who placed first depending what gear we found that week, what new rotation we could come up with, or what 'strange thing' we could exploit in each event, however, there was a period where a couple weeks or so straight where Bodes kept placing third or fourth in the ranks (at the end of the raid, those few % difference could represent millions of points of damage, so even though it was only a small %, it added up quickly). We needed to get him out of that slump because it was really getting to him, and our casting jobs (mages / warlocks) were getting really overly **** (largely because the fights in those instances pretty much required those jobs to win, and melee were a non-factor).

At the time I was a marks/survival hybrid Hunter, far and away the best build of a hunter for maximum damage output at the time (sustained 40-50% crit was ridiculously easy to achieve). For those of you that don't know, Hunter is sort of like an FFXI Ranger job if FFXI's Ranger was given full strength BST pets. But, as a marksman/survival hunter, my pet was only a fraction of my damage, and I could easily go an entire event without it and place in the top few % (back then, this was out of 25-40 people, depending on the event). My point is my pet was not my core damage, but if parsed, it would produce a few % worth of overall raid damage which, at the end of a long event, is really a **** of a lot of damage.

To get Bodes out of his rut, We decided to have some fun and circumvent the system a bit. Parsers often ignore pets because they don't fall under the "character name" of the person dealing damage, so even though often times job+pet can out parse most 'job' only classes, it's also often ignored, and in some cases even outright declared as insignificant and unimportant (these FFXI posts I'm seeing seem to do that as well). We decided to name a bird pet I was using at the time "Bodes", and set it to spam an ability called screech (a really low damage attack that acts as an attack-power debuff to the enemy, that made a delightfully ear piercing sound non stop) just because we thought it would annoy people more that way (... sorry, wow has a tendency to bring out the worst in all of us). At the end of the raid, for the first time in weeks, Bodes was #1 by a good margin, and a surprisingly large % of his damage came from an ability that was tracked as "screech". We had successfully fooled the damage meters into adding my pet's (my very weak pet mind you, since I had not set up my job for pet damage) into Bodes' damage, and that small margin was enough to take him from fifth/sixth to first with some to spare. He eventually gave it up when at the end of the event our leader was questioning why he died twice as much as anyone else (as an unanticipated side effect, all my pet deaths counted as his, lol). When it was all said and done, we were pretty surprised to see how much damage came only from that crappy "screech" ability.

So, my point is that if you don't just up and "dismiss" pet damage, more often than not, equally geared, equally skilled pet-job players (+pet) vs standard-job players, will favor pet jobs if played well. But parses are only a part of the story... a small faction of the visible spectrum of pet jobs vs normal jobs. I've played many pet jobs, and was even a person who would 'only' play pet jobs for a while, just because I really liked the idea of having company, or at least the illusion of an ally, with me all the time when I played (I've come to the realization over the years that I solo far more than the average player). These days I'm not nearly as stubborn in that regard and I've grown to love nearly all forms of jobs the MMO spectrum has to offer, though I do find myself pushing away from the caster classes as I get tired of the whole 'mp dependency' / 'try not to get interrupted' thing (a byproduct of many WoW arenas and too many years of FFXI's BLM I suppose). Having this wide array in my history gives me a much broader view than most, and I can say without a doubt, doing things "with a normal alliance" is just easier to control and understand. There are some enemies that, even though they get "parsed" the same, aren't as easy to kill with a pet-centric group because things like spike-damage potential rely on twitch abilities of the player during small windows of opportunity that just can't translate into a "pet" properly, and since the 'master' will almost always undoubtedly do 'less' damage than it's non-pet-job alternative, those (often essential) windows become more difficult, and put more weight on your non-pet-job teammates shoulders.

All of that being said, In FFXI, I've seen players that are great at pet jobs, great as stand-alone 'normal' jobs, and people who can play the 'master of none' hybrid roles with such finesse they make the people around them who play distinct min-max roles look... terrible. One thing stands out as an absolute truth in FFXI, a truth that does not carry over into the "WoW" space. While it's true that a parser isn't the "be-all-end-all" determining factor of success in either scenario, it's pretty much a necessity in WoW to determine where your problems are and how to fix them. FFXI is NOTHING like that in any way shape or form. In FFXI parsers mean almost nothing, since there are so many varied abilities that you can depend on that 'dont' directly inflect damage, it's always, without a doubt, going to favor one of a few direct-damage jobs with relic/mythic/etc weapons, not because they are 'better' at the job, but because they only have one role to fill and will never offer up anything outside of that role. There's a reason "pet-centric" linkshells exist in FFXI, and they see a great deal of success in what they do, but to say they play 'like everyone else' is not ever going to be true, as they frequently use completely alternative methods to achieve victory that "standard" game-play doesn't allow. WoW has gotten much better with pet job integration over the years, but FFXI will never catch up I'm afraid, so the "throw pets at it" tactic is just easier.

My point is, A melee will love a bard because they will boost a Melee's damage and end-of-the-day parse. But the general populous won't love a pet-job even if they offer up just as much overall benneficial damage increase for two reasons:

1) The pet is an additional liability that S/E imposes far too much restraint on (long recall for wyverns, entirely crazy gear requirements for puppets, retardedly high perpetuation requirements to even consider SMN viable on top of limiting MP pool etc).

2) Often times you aren't directly helping them feel better about themselves, while also "seemingly" doling less damage yourself on a per-hit basis. The never-ending conflict you see in all MMO's : The Warrior wants to feel bigger and hit harder. Plain and simple.

Edit: Found this image in with some old saved wow pictures. I had left it on melee only so his damage was inflated more, but turned on screech for a trash pull just to see how it faired. Once we realized it added in, we left that ability on, wish I had a picture of the end-results (even had a seperate addon that showed specifically how much my pet output was independantly, so I believe we figured it somewhere between 4-5% of his overall damage, which is WAY less than the % of pet damage BST/PUP/SMN has in FFXI - just to give a rough idea). Click Here to see an image to prove this is not false. Note I was still second despite us messing around and my pet damage not counting towards my own damage


Edited, Oct 29th 2012 4:06pm by FUJILIVES
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Posting from just above the generator.
#151 Oct 30 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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575 posts
I'm going to treat that post by Fujilives like an underpaid TA. tl;dr, 10/10 points on your homework.
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