[dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments (was forum=10) (was forum :: World of Warcraft

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#1 Jan 19 2012 at 5:01 AM Rating: Good

Szabo

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Gildrein wrote:

*This content is currently in development and may differ in the release version.

Phantom Roll Effect Adjustments

Healer's Roll
Increases the amount of MP recovered while healing -> Enhances potency of "Cure" effect received

 
Roll	Effect Value 
1	+3% 
2	+4% 
3	+12% 
4	+5% 
5	+6% 
6	+7% 
7	+1% 
8	+8% 
9	+9% 
10	+10% 
11	+16% 
Bust	-4% 
Bonus	+4%

Gallant's Roll
Grants a damage reflection effect -> Reduces damage taken

 
Roll	Effect Value 
1	-6 
2	-8 
3	-24 
4	-9 
5	-11 
6	-12 
7	-3 
8	-15 
9	-17 
10	-18 
11	-30 
Bust	+5 
Bonus	-5

Drachen Roll
Enhances magic attack and magic accuracy -> Enhances pet accuracy
This roll is now learnable at level 23 instead of level 52.

 
Roll	Effect Value 
1	+10 
2	+13 
3	+15 
4	+40 
5	+18 
6	+20 
7	+25 
8	+5 
9	+28 
10	+30 
11	+50 
Bust	-15 
Bonus	+15

Puppet's Roll
Enhances pet accuracy -> Enhances magic attack and magic accuracy
This roll is now learnable at level 52 instead of level 23.

 
Roll	Effect Value 
1	+4 
2	+5 
3	+18 
4	+7 
5	+9 
6	+10 
7	+2 
8	+11 
9	+13 
10	+15 
11	+22 
Bust	-8 
Bonus	+8

Phantom Roll Effect Adjustments

Warlock's Roll (Enhances magic accuracy)

 
Roll	Current Effect Value New Effect Value 
1	+2	             +2 
2	+3	             +3 
3	+4	             +4 
4	+10	             +12 
5	+4	             +5 
6	+5	             +6 
7	+6	             +7 
8	+1	             +1 
9	+7	             +8 
10	+7	             +9 
11	+12	             +15 
Bust	-4	             -5 
Bonus	+4	             +5

Beast Roll (Enhances pet attacks)

 
Roll	Current Effect Value	New Effect Value 
1	+12	                +16 
2	+15	                +20 
3	+18	                +24 
4	+48	                +64 
5	+21	                +28 
6	+24	                +32 
7	+30	                +40 
8	+6	                +8 
9	+33	                +44 
10	+36	                +48 
11	+60	                +80 
Bust	-20	                -25 
Bonus	+20	                +25

Choral Roll (Decreases spell interruption rate)

 
Roll	Current Effect Value	New Effect Value 
1	-11	                -13 
2	-43	                -55 
3	-14	                -17 
4	-16	                -20 
5	-19	                -25 
6	-5	                -8 
7	-22	                -30 
8	-27	                -35 
9	-30	                -40 
10	-32	                -45 
11	-54	                -65 
Bust	+20	                +25 
Bonus	-20	                -25

Dancer's Roll (Grants a Regen effect)

 
Roll	Current Effect Value	New Effect Value 
1	+3	                +3 
2	+4	                +4 
3	+11	                +12 
4	+4	                +5 
5	+5	                +6 
6	+6	                +7 
7	+1	                +1 
8	+7	                +8 
9	+8	                +9 
10	+8	                +10 
11	+14	                +16 
Bust	-3	                -4 
Bonus	+3	                +4

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19789-dev1069-Corsair-Job-Adjustments?p=264442#post264442

Edited, Jan 19th 2012 6:10am by Szabo

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#2 Jan 19 2012 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent

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Unless the price on Puppet Roll is unchanged then this achieves absolutely nothing, congrats SE.

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#3 Jan 19 2012 at 6:37 AM Rating: Default

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Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

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#4 Jan 19 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent

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catwho wrote:

Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

COR is pretty powerful in VWNM from my limited experience. Atma of discipline, Miser's, Tacticians roll give me a one shot build essentially so DoT as a DD'er is hardly necessary when you can fire back to back WS fairly constantly from a distance. All the while applying the same rolls to other DD. And given BRD doesn't have any native TP regenerating songs, there isn't so much redundancy between COR and BRD as there used to be.

Granted the change to Gallants roll is the only useful change here. Even then I'd rather have a COR in the DD party doing Tacticians/Miser's roll than in the tank party just to add a so-so phalanx effect. But it still is better than nothing especially if it does actually stack with PLD phalanx.

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#5 Jan 19 2012 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent

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You wouldn't use any of these rolls much anyway. Miser's and tactician's are just too good to give up for any melee jobs, including the cor itself. With good rolls you're basically just firing a ws, shooting once, firing ws, quick shot, ws, shoot, ws, shoot, ws, quick draw, ws, etc, and it doesn't matter the event either to achieve this (though VW sticks out with its save tp and regain atmacites complimenting this when you're unlucky with rolls).

add: the new pld's roll would make it easier to use plds without ochain for most things. It's a pretty strong effect, assuming it stacks with phalanx. But miser/tact is just damn good.

Edited, Jan 19th 2012 8:45am by orinthia

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#6 Jan 19 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent

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catwho wrote:

Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

Are you seriously implying that COR's DD is lacking? It's a support job, of course it's damage is going to be notably lower than dedicated DD. Their buffs more than cover then difference. Especially considering how broken the newer TP rolls are, CORs should be happy they haven't had their damage nerfed yet.

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#7 Jan 19 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent

Chewzer

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They've swapped the effects of Drachen Roll and Puppet's Roll, which actually makes a lot of sense even if their uses are limited. The Gallant's Roll change is welcome, it's actually worth learning now. I could see a some use for it in Cleave/Edge/etc. burn parties.

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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.

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#8 Jan 19 2012 at 10:12 AM Rating: Default

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Saelae wrote:

catwho wrote:

Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

Are you seriously implying that COR's DD is lacking? It's a support job, of course it's damage is going to be notably lower than dedicated DD. Their buffs more than cover then difference. Especially considering how broken the newer TP rolls are, CORs should be happy they haven't had their damage nerfed yet.

COR is good at spike damage, just like RNG. We've all seen the video of the crazy COR one-shotting Shinryu. I was hoping that they'd get some DoT improvements, that's all.

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#9 Jan 19 2012 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good

rdmcandie

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only way to really improve their DoT would be to let haste work on ranged attacks.

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#10 Jan 19 2012 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent

Chewzer

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catwho wrote:

COR is good at spike damage, just like RNG. We've all seen the video of the crazy COR one-shotting Shinryu. I was hoping that they'd get some DoT improvements, that's all.

I think what they're saying is that a Wildfire COR's spike damage is so extreme that it results in being one of the highest DoT damage jobs in many situations (Voidwatch and Abyssea).

Also, redundancy with Bard buffs? Ummm, no.

Edited, Jan 19th 2012 10:57am by Chewzer

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Fynlar wrote:

Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.

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#11 Jan 19 2012 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent

Chewzer

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rdmcandie wrote:

only way to really improve their DoT would be to let haste work on ranged attacks.

How about increasing the sh*tty B skill for COR's main weapon? Smiley: mad

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Fynlar wrote:

Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.

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#12 Jan 19 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good

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Chewzer wrote:

catwho wrote:

COR is good at spike damage, just like RNG. We've all seen the video of the crazy COR one-shotting Shinryu. I was hoping that they'd get some DoT improvements, that's all.

I think what they're saying is that a Wildfire COR's spike damage is so extreme that it results in being one of the highest DoT damage jobs in many situations (Voidwatch and Abyssea).

Also, redundancy with Bard buffs? Ummm, no.

Because every COR has Wildfire.

A job should only be fun because you've done the trials for Bedlam +1.

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#13 Jan 19 2012 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good

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Because every COR has Wildfire.

A job should only be fun because you've done the trials for Bedlam +1.

Have to agree that an Empyrean is pretty necessary for this job to be played to its best sadly. Wildfire is just that good for COR.
However a non-Empyrean COR with a good Last Stand build can do pretty well on much of the new content. Won't be as good in Aby, but I've managed to hit some near equivalent numbers with Last Stand on some of the VWNM's (esp the magic resistant ones)

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#14 Jan 19 2012 at 11:34 AM Rating: Excellent

Chewzer

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catwho wrote:

Chewzer wrote:

catwho wrote:

COR is good at spike damage, just like RNG. We've all seen the video of the crazy COR one-shotting Shinryu. I was hoping that they'd get some DoT improvements, that's all.

I think what they're saying is that a Wildfire COR's spike damage is so extreme that it results in being one of the highest DoT damage jobs in many situations (Voidwatch and Abyssea).

Also, redundancy with Bard buffs? Ummm, no.

Because every COR has Wildfire.

A job should only be fun because you've done the trials for Bedlam +1.

When did I ever suggest that every COR has Wildfire? You're the one who brought Wildfire up...

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Fynlar wrote:

Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.

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#15 Jan 19 2012 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent

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I brought up an extreme example of spike damage, that's all. Smiley: frown

I guess with Wildfire being so broken, it becomes hard to separate DoT from spike damage with a COR that has it...

All I know is that I enjoyed COR up to 75 when I first leveled it back in the day, but I just don't feel the love for it any more, and the proposed changes from SE aren't going to lure me back to it any time soon.

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#16 Jan 19 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent

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Hmmm might be fun to solo cor/bst with that pet roll...

Is it weird that I miss soloing as a bst more than anything about this game right now?

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#17 Jan 19 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent

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catwho wrote:

I brought up an extreme example of spike damage, that's all. Smiley: frown

I guess with Wildfire being so broken, it becomes hard to separate DoT from spike damage with a COR that has it...

All I know is that I enjoyed COR up to 75 when I first leveled it back in the day, but I just don't feel the love for it any more, and the proposed changes from SE aren't going to lure me back to it any time soon.

Admittedly I was a very sad COR through much of Abyssea, but VW and likely Legion will make very good use of COR.
If you haven't experienced getting 65 TP back from a WS with Miser's, atmacite of Discipline, you don't know what you are missing.

Having way more fun on COR at VW events than I have the last couple year. Too bad I only seem to get these lousy logs all the time.

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#18 Jan 20 2012 at 5:41 AM Rating: Decent

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Switch DRG and PUP rolls back to the enhancement they were. Or make DRG roll something different entirely, like pet damage taken-%. Why would you ever use pet enhancing rolls when you have DRG's in the party, when a wyvern is just a weak offhand weapon with an HP bar?

BST/PUP rolls on my pet were awesome since accuracy and attack were what pets and puppets lack, and BST and PUP work together well. Now to get the same thing, we need to drag a DRG along to stand there and do nothing but buff the roll, because he'd die horribly if he tried to help.

Blah, guess I could try BST/companion's, but we still can't buff companion's roll. And extra TP does pretty much nothing for Ready moves anyway. (Most pets WS at 250 tp every time, anyway.)

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#19 Jan 20 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent

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louispv wrote:

Blah, guess I could try BST/companion's, but we still can't buff companion's roll. And extra TP does pretty much nothing for Ready moves anyway. (Most pets WS at 250 tp every time, anyway.)

Wouldn't Companion's roll help get your pet to 250 TP faster?

I would think for a BST, Companions and BST roll would be standard fair.

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#20 Jan 20 2012 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent

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Dartagnann wrote:

louispv wrote:

Blah, guess I could try BST/companion's, but we still can't buff companion's roll. And extra TP does pretty much nothing for Ready moves anyway. (Most pets WS at 250 tp every time, anyway.)

Wouldn't Companion's roll help get your pet to 250 TP faster?

BST pets are WSing at 250 TP instead of 100 TP because what's holding them back from using TP more often is the Ready/Sic timer (and in the case of Ready, the tokens required for a desirable move). It's not that BSTs are intentionally waiting for 250 TP, or that the pet AI is waiting for 250 TP.

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#21 Jan 20 2012 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent

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catwho wrote:

Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

except that you know... cor buffs are way better and can do more then just haste/attack *********

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#22 Jan 20 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent

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koromaseraph wrote:

[quote=catwho]Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

except that you know... cor buffs are way better and can do more then just haste/attack *****************

Haste is still king.

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#23 Jan 20 2012 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good

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catwho wrote:

koromaseraph wrote:

[quote=catwho]Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

except that you know... cor buffs are way better and can do more then just haste/attack *****************

Haste is still king.

Not always.

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#24 Jan 23 2012 at 12:21 AM Rating: Decent

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svlyons wrote:

Dartagnann wrote:

louispv wrote:

Blah, guess I could try BST/companion's, but we still can't buff companion's roll. And extra TP does pretty much nothing for Ready moves anyway. (Most pets WS at 250 tp every time, anyway.)

Wouldn't Companion's roll help get your pet to 250 TP faster?

BST pets are WSing at 250 TP instead of 100 TP because what's holding them back from using TP more often is the Ready/Sic timer (and in the case of Ready, the tokens required for a desirable move). It's not that BSTs are intentionally waiting for 250 TP, or that the pet AI is waiting for 250 TP.

And that's A)

B) My pet ws's with 200 tp if it has 100 when I hit the macro. Most pets have Fencer (TP+50) and ferine hands add a TP bonus. (TP+50) If I had an aymur it would be physically impossible to ws at less than 300 tp, since it also adds a TP bonus.

C) Extra pet TP does almost nothing. It's almost always simply a longer duration on the additional effect that didn't land in the first place. And when it is a damage increase, you need a parser to notice. (Charged whisker did 400 instead of 320 with an extra 150 tp? wow...)

It's borderline broken for puppets, since they ws on their own as soon as they get TP. The damn things have essentially a 2 hit build with an 11 roll. And while SMN have a bloodpact delay, their damage increases incredibly with more TP for avatars. For BST, companion's roll basically just saves some gil on biscuits.

Quote:

Haste is still king.

I'd take miser's roll over march any day. WS'ing and still having 40-50 tp left over afterwards is delightful.

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#25 Jan 23 2012 at 5:29 AM Rating: Default

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catwho wrote:

koromaseraph wrote:

[quote=catwho]Yeah, it's not enough to make me want to drag out my COR junk I muled after I got it to 99. It doesn't fix the fundamentally broken part of the job, which is a lack of DoT as a DDer, and redundancy with BRD as a buffer.

except that you know... cor buffs are way better and can do more then just haste/attack *****************

Haste is still king.

This, I have no idea why ppl says haste is dead........

A good VW DD zerg pt should have BRD singing march, and COR should be using misers+chaos. Haste is never dead, but Chaos+misers isn't much inferior....just like old lv 75 merit pt, COR+BRD > only COR or only BRD, you can't really miss any one of them.

I don't think lack of DoT is a big problem, or else it'd be broken with powerful ranged WSs like WF and Last Stand....if you like DoT DD job, may as well play MNK DNC etc. Every DD works differently, just pick the one you like. It doesn't really need high DoT IMO, considering WS is strong and it's ranged.

Also Last Stand if done right, it easily beats WF on many lower tier VWNM if you have no racc issue.
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/6145/3179ls.png

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#26 Jan 23 2012 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good

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Quote:

Admittedly I was a very sad COR through much of Abyssea, but VW and likely Legion will make very good use of COR.
If you haven't experienced getting 65 TP back from a WS with Miser's, atmacite of Discipline, you don't know what you are missing.

Having way more fun on COR at VW events than I have the last couple year. Too bad I only seem to get these lousy logs all the time.

WF Cor is a fairly broken job in VW, similar to how war is. I would be pretty supsrised if a nerf wasn't coming for wildfire in the same way they are ripping apart Ukon atm. The sheer quantitiy of weapon skills a good WF cor can pump out is pretty insane, don't even have to worry about acc issues.

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[dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments (was forum=10) (was forumFollow