A possible solution to please both sides?Follow

Not to mention Dynamis CoP - you can choose to disable your sub to access more rewards.

While you may be right, there are elements of the OP's gripe that are dubious at best, if not factually incorrect. Such as...



This is the first one because "hardcore" =/= intentionally gimping yourself to get exp in a historically slow exp/hour era of the game. That's not at all what hardcore ever has, does, or ever will mean. The word for that would be something the OP would consider a flame.




There isn't some huge rift between players "divided over the changes". How many people besides the OP and like 2 others on this forum in the past week have actually heard of anyone complaining about GoV? Leaving the game because of faster exp/hour? Disappointed it doesn't take them longer to exp?

Perhaps I am isolated from this but the problem was the inverse for so long that I can't believe that this is dividing players.



The OP is using harder to mean: (a) leveling slower; (b) doing CoP content at level caps. I'm not going to debate the meaning of harder in these contexts, I'll let you decide that for yourselves. However, I do find it questionable that there are many people who want (a) and/or (b). This is the problem I have with the gripe, that it is based on lack of provable facts that are most likely completely made up to justify the reason for the gripe.

If this was a justifiable gripe, we'd all have at least had some exposure to people shouting in Port Jeuno or have been asked once to join a 5k/hour skillchain party. Has this happened to any of you besides the OP? Do you know anyone who wants that?



Again, this is a logical fallacy. Reformation was designed for new players and returning players who had not played the game for a while. It was not necessarily designed to intentionally make players chose a more difficult way of getting exp/hour. As far as experiencing old content at it's level caps, I'm glad the OP found it worthy to post that one way of finding like minded interests is to form a linkshell around them. I'm sure no one has thought of this idea before.



Or maybe they don't exist...

Or maybe they quit...

Or maybe they aren't online when I'm online...

As my algebra teacher in high school used to say, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts it would be Christmas every day.




Again with the dubious questionable statements. They would have likely unjustifiable costs to lose.



My idea is for them to design the level 95-99 Abyssea where we upgrade +2 to +3 then +4. And work on our next round of Empyrean weapons. In parallel Walk of Echoes content should be expanded and Voidwatch as well so that we can battle test our shinies from Abyssea. While we are enjoying that year of content they should work on the next level 99 playground that requires more team dynamics. I'd also like to see more job differentiation. A PVP system that offers good rewards can be implemented.

These are my ideas, all of which are more important to me as a loyal paying customer of multiple accounts for the last consecutive 8 years, than worrying about the way other people get exp/hour and experience content introduced 5 years ago.

Don't bring up the "well I'm not worried about...other people, I just want a server where I can also find like minded individuals."

If we go down that rabbit hole, we might as well create a server for every special interest. Hey look, a server for people who like mining. Hey look, a server for people who like playing SMN with the subjob set to /war. Hey look, a RDM melee server. An additional one where they have Cure V. Another where they don't. A third where they have Cure VI...

Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 4:36pm by TheBarrister

Lets not forget that several, several people have asked for different language servers - and that request will never be granted (financially it makes sense for SE to have us all on one server, as our peak times differ so one server can handle more people than a regional one could). The number of people that want this > the people that want a "hardcore" mode/server; SE will never do it.

I posted this suggestion 5 years ago.




The problem with trying to cater to both hardcore and casuals is that the casuals will always resent that they can't get the hardcore shinies and will loudly demand that SE change that content to accommodate them.



Edited, Sep 23rd 2011 12:47am by Lobivopis

Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are flaming you. You can't have a discussion when you throw your hands over your ears and stamp your feet when others point out fallacies in your ideas.

There is plenty of ways to make the game more of a challenge, but the question is why bother. Old content is all but worthless, outside a few items, and getting lucky on sky augments there is little to no reason to even bother with it.

If you and your friends like to try things and make them more difficult that is great, I do that too, but generally it is me, and maybe 1-2 friends fighting something that a year ago we wouldn't have had any business fighting.

As for my opinion on the discussion, as someone who had to do CoP twice(plus numerous times helping), I am all for the changes, it was a pain in the *** the second time doing it, because no one wanted to do it again, it was long, moderately difficult, and offered no rewards to people to help. SE had no choice but to lower the difficulty, otherwise some people would never have progressed through it. A server dedicated to the Hard Core would fail hard. 90% of people who consider themselves hardcore need casual players to exploit. Every successful LS had a handful of people on the top reaping the benefits of those working under them. The best way to do this was to have a pile of Casual people. This is especially useful in point based LS's as the casual players would not be able to keep up with the hard core players points. Allowing them to get all the loot they want first.

The only thing a hardcore player has ever held over a casual player is play time. Skill levels vary all over so blanketing hardcore as more skilled is impossible. What they are good at is exploiting casual gamers, as a leader of a long ago defunct sky/kings shell, I can tell you right now, the Hard core players in the shell didn't clear content, it was the dozen or so casual players who put it a couple hours each night. Oh and us at the top who were on all the time, we got pretty much whatever we wanted, because out playtime was much much higher.

Ironically enough Casual players do not need hardcore players. They can play just fine with whoever is around to play with. But Hardcore players need those casual players, to get through the mundane tasks. (well needed now everything can be low manned). This server will accomplish nothing, because Hard Core players need the casual element.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2011 6:03am by rdmcandie

This is the nature of the internet.


But in all seriousness.....lets break down some of your claims you keep repeating:



You say many people quit over GoV. Most of us dont know a single person who quit over this, but you make it sound as if GoV drove people out. Frankly, it seemed a bit dishonest; it seemed as if you were leading us to believe things like GoV were leading to some mass exodus.



You pointed to Reformation as a ls centered around "doing things the harder way," but in reality, this ls pulled people in by claiming it was a ls for new/returning players. Your statement here was dishonest.



Part of your arguments were around garrison, and one of your points was it was valid back during the RMT gil generation scheme around Christmas of (2007? I forget). Yeah, garrison rewards could have hauled around 8 mil a night. But EVERYTHING you could farm / do for money during that time lead to millions of gil - EVERYTHING was expensive and EVERYTHING cost a good chunk of change. So your characterization of garrison bringing in 8 mil was misleading.

Finally, the title of your post "A possible solution to please both sides?" makes it sound as if there are a good chunk of people who are for your idea and a good chunk against, with you coming up with this great compromise. Dude, its you and like 2 other people fully behind you, a few people that have fond memories of how things were but realize the game had to change to stay alive, and then a whole host of people who are glad to see the old ways die. Your title, to me, was a bit misleading.

People on internet forums have zero tolerance for ********* It just seems like you have been misleading or flat out dishonest, and - at least to me - that is why you havent been too well received.

And as far as a "simple suggestion, I dont advocate a forced change to everyone" goes....you already have a small history of playing the "I'm-going-to-make-a-statement-like-I-am-trying-to-find-an-answer-yet-I-actually-already-said-I-know-it" card:




Here, you play it off as you arent sure what caused the drop - leading to some sort of weird credibility in "I'm trying to be fair and look at this logically" - when exactly FOUR sentences above it you stated / alluded to it being due to GoV. So while you havent come out and said "people should play this way" (but actually you kind of did when you said "it should take at least two months to get to the level cap"), people can sense that you may, and because it seems you have been dishonest OR have tried to mislead us, people just assume you have other intentions.

Player politics is somethings Devs really need to try to avoid when making something, which usually means the game has to step in and fairly moderate in some fashion. On one end, you get something like Einherjar where everyone gets the same Ichor for kills/win. On the other, you get something like Campaign where being versatile and tapping into all aspects of a job instead of doing the typically narrowed focus party version was often more rewarding no matter how awesome of a one-trick pony you were. There's no need for DKP, leaders deciding who deserves what, or even the stupid rarity of low drop percentages or limited mob access. You go in, have fun, get out knowing you're a step closer to your goal... not unlike certain magian trials.

It's almost irksome seeing SE did so much right in 2010, only to take so many steps back in 2011. I have no love for the hardcore, and if anything, tend to white knight for the casuals. While it might be an amusing experiment to see all the "pros" funneled off to their dream server of hardcore leetness, I have no doubt it'd be a big ghost town between a mix of starting over (like SE would really let you transfer~) and a number of current conveniences they take for granted, like exploited casuals.

I guess what would be fun to me would be a mixture of the current system and the old one. I have nothing against the new system, only that you level way too fast. The changed were like going from "snail" to "roadrunner". Maybe something along the lines of "chocobo" would be good. 6 man parties like the "old days" net a lot more exp then they did before. I like this. GoV FC's on the other hand I think blow it out of the water. As someone posted elsewhere, people tend to like to take the path of least resistance, so now the 6 man party is dead (expect for those who choose to do it retro). If the rewards equated with GoV, but not the rate of 1-75 in two weeks, (I can't speak for others) but I'd be happy. :3 I'd also like to see make the 1-75 content along the way worth while to some end game stuff. That would make new players happy. They would be useful in say... a revamped garrison. Having fun without having to grind to 75 to have it.

SE has always (as well as many other MMOs) had this mentality that content that is endgame is the only thing that should be of worth. It becomes a grind fest to who can get to xx level 1st and enjoy said content. CoP with caps... yes I DO agree that CoP was way too hard before too, but I did enjoy the fact that I could round up a bunch of lvl 30s that were new to the game and let them have fun in an event of value. Their face would light up with awe when they did their 1st garrison or large scale event. It made their day and made them want to stay.

Remember, no matter how you spin it, people get to end game eventually. As in life, the end doesn't matter so much as the journey to get there. When you have an overly rapid leveling system with no middle game content of value, of COURSE people will grumble about leveling and the time it takes to get "end game"

I've love SE to tone down the exp gain a tad (to a 6 man party equivalent... so they can learn party dynamics) and add lots of new capped stuff that makes new people feel of worth.

P.S. I know there are BCNMs but that really doesn't let them experience the storyline in anyway... only get loot.

The nice thing about FFXI is you don't have to do just the endgame grinds. You can **** away many hours at chocobo races or playing Pankemon. You can turn on some music and fish on the ferries. You can switch nations and start over as a rookie adventurer, spend some quality time exploring for the hell of it, or sit in Jeuno shooting the breeze while you work on crafting. SE didn't erase all the quests from the game when they added Abyssea; they added hundreds more.

While the leveling aspect of FFXI is sped up, I think it's always been compensated by the so many areas of FFXI that are still essentially downtown.

why do you need rewards....er wait.

You want rewards, yet want to do everything the hard way and minimize the potential of getting rewards? If you want rewards why not embrace the fact you and a few friends can steam roll 90% of current content.

You can make your own rewards.

I know people who have a goal to finish all the missions, finish all the quests, level all the jobs to 99 eventually, level the max crafts, and get all blue numbers. They want to truly "beat" the game. That will still take a long, long time.

Regarding Reformation, I was a sackholder and then created the new LS when we finally decided we wanted a leader that plays the game. I probably haven't been much better, but I at least log on and help people out when I'm free.

We ran 50+ members online both back then and now, so we probably have 100 or so active members. I've never seen us under 10 members, and only seen it near there early mornings.

DKTAT wasn't the original leader and he quit right after the server merges. The founder was Blueranger or something similar on here and he never really played so I can't say he quit. But he did do a great job recruiting and helping us grow.

To the best of my knowledge Reformation was always billed as a "Classic" ls that did stuff the old way and did old content. But in reality we never were that. We do old content still, but it's more of just doing it for fun to experience the storylines or places some of us have never seen due to being new or returning from 5+ year layoffs. We did 6 man pt's pretty steady until GoV's came out, but once they hit, those pretty much disappeared. We'll still have a few a week, but it's more because people are wanting to skillup/do anything besides GoV to get xp.

I haven't heard of anyone not being able to log on the ls, but it has happened to me in a previous ls that was about this size, so I guess it's possible.