Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

No Justice in Vana'dielFollow

#1 Jul 12 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
6,543 posts
What has happened to the FFXI community?

I remember a time when it was well known that among MMORPGs, FFXI had the greatest, most mature playerbase. (In comparison to say, WoW or F2P MMOs.) It was one of the reasons people enjoyed playing.

I used to be anxious speaking to people I didn't know because I was afraid they would not know any English, and anti-English sentiment was really the worst I had to worry about then. These days there seem to be plenty of English-speaking players though... the thing is, from many of them I can see first hand why many JP players keep to themselves.

Now before I go any further, I want to make it clear that I am not referring to "who has what gear" or "who is the best at x job." This thread is not about that. This about an incredible influx in anti-social and otherwise deviant behavior displayed by (mostly) newer players. The worst part is, nothing is done about it, and no one cares if it does not directly effect them.

What they don't realize is, it effects everyone.

When you invite a new member to your Dynamis linkshell, and he invites his mule inside to lot everything that drops, the overall trust of people outside of one's existing circle of friends is diminished. When no one within your existing circle of friends wants to do a 3-man BCNM, the natural solution is to shout in WG for a quick fix, then get screwed despite having both party leader AND quartermaster status. Then watch as it happens again and again to different people while GMs do absolutely nothing about it-- whereas all you can do is warn people and hope not to be too late.

Not only do these things DESTROY any trust people have for anyone they don't know, but it begets even more bad behavior from people when they try to retaliate. It also encourages people who might otherwise be good players to do it themselves, because apparently it is perfectly acceptable and SE allows it.

As a whole, we (the English speaking community) are crippled by the fear an anxiety of other players we do not already know. Despite server merges and masses of returning/new players, individual linkshell sizes remain small, making them feel empty-- and because we tend to only do things with familiar people (for the reasons stated above) we are incredibly limited on the things we can do-- (the leading factor in the "omg FFXI is dying and the servers are empty" argument.)

Lately there has been a lot of talk of MMO companies like Blizzard attempting to improve the social aspect of their MMO by reducing anonymity and making it more like "Facebook." An almost unanimous response from the public indicated this to be a very bad idea. (In SE's case, they could greatly improve the situation if they'd just enforce their own rules.)

What we really need is a way for the playerbase, not just SE, to help enforce the rules. The natural response to this would be:

Predictable Reply from at least a dozen people wrote:
That would never work because it would be abused and innocent people would fall victim, etc. etc.


That is possible, but not if it is done correctly. A system of checks and balances would reduce that risk. Not only that, but anything is better than, "We'll look into it... (not)."

There could be a panel of volunteer player-elected judges on each server, (each presiding over servers that are not their own), and other person's that could call upon the accused through a system similar to that which GMs use. Under certain circumstances, chat logs could be reviewed while the process is taking place.

They have already passed off weddings to the players, this is naturally the next step.

Edit: Title changed

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 8:57pm by Kuwoobie
____________________________
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.

#2 Jul 12 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Default
***
3,285 posts
It became this way when ppl started to complain about how hard it was. To counter this SE has made the game easier and easier over the years to keep the whiners happy.

It was the challenge that the game brought that kept them away and now that its gone you will see more and more of them come.

BTW they was already here but was just more manageable and more willing to learn.
#3 Jul 12 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,684 posts
I blame the age of this game and SE's actions of making this game more solo-friendly.

I've always felt that the steep learning curve and lack of solo content helped to deter ******** and extremely selfish players from getting very far in this game.
#4 Jul 12 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
****
4,447 posts
"steep learning curve" lol, there are far less things to figure out in this game, especially pre-endgame, than in many games. You don't have to worry about accuracy vs attack vs str vs dex when your only options are +armor! Not until end-game do options really even exist for gear, merits are only end-game, so the only "learning" one really needs to do early on is skillchains. And they're not usually worth it or at least someone else in the group can figure it out for you. There is no "steep learning curve" in FFXI, but there is solo-unfriendly and grinding required.

Quote:
I remember a time when it was well known that among MMORPGs, FFXI had the greatest, most mature playerbase.


This was mostly a FF player thing. I used to think the same thing about FFXI when I played it. I don't really follow that anymore. Maybe the community was ruined before I quit and that's what I saw, though. My experience in WoW is that the majority of the people I play with are still mostly reasonable, polite people. The game just has such a high speed that you'll go through people and meet the jerks more often. I hopped into the Cataclysm alpha a few weeks ago and joined a group and everyone was calm, polite and respectful, we all worked together to figure out how to complete the dungeon and were successful in doing so. It was just like a good party my first time taking a character to 75 in FFXI.

Pretty sure what ruined the community was people finding others they liked. So then they stuck to just those people. So the majority of the nice, reasonable people stuck together and stayed in a bubble, which increased the chances of you partying with a jerk since the jerks never made friends with people for a static or anything, other than maybe having one jerk friend around so you get to group with TWO jerks at the same time.
#5 Jul 12 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Default
You said merits are endgame lol.
#6 Jul 12 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,447 posts
Only accessible at the highest level (although I suppose this changed last patch?) by definition makes them "endgame".
#7 Jul 12 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
Drunken English Bastard
*****
15,268 posts
It's people like that which give Sylph a bad name!

Wait, I'm from Sylph...Carry on.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#8 Jul 12 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
6,543 posts
This thread seems to have become lost in a sea of necrobumps by "evilmind," a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
____________________________
Galkaman wrote:
Kuwoobie will die crushed under the burden of his mediocrity.

#9 Jul 12 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Default
Thief's Knife
*****
15,054 posts
The game used to weed out the retards. Making the game easier combined with recent interest of the WoW crowd in FFXIV (and by extension FFXI) has caused this situation.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#10 Jul 12 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Default
Thief's Knife
*****
15,054 posts
SirEaglestrike wrote:
My experience in WoW is that the majority of the people I play with are still mostly reasonable, polite people


My experience in WoW was that the majority of people I met were howling, ***** throwing monkeys.


also:


SirEaglestrike wrote:
merits


SirEaglestrike wrote:
end game


LOL



Edited, Jul 12th 2010 9:22pm by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#11 Jul 12 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Default
***
1,755 posts
people are not stupid*, I am sure the majority of them are aware of the consequences of their negative behaviour;
I recommend entertaining various game models in your head about the progression of people (et al) through the eight year timeframe of ffxi given the (oh so boundless) boundless avenues of exploration availible to them.
I'm sure sure pondering will lead you nowhere closer to the actual truth but will undoubtedly lead to many glorious and beautiful avenues of pseudo-truth. Such things are pretty and much more worth spending time contemplating.

*(people are infact very stupid, that however is not relevant to anything)



\o\\\\\\\\\\---- WHOOSH!
#12 Jul 12 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
2,228 posts
The "Halo is only populated by children" meme is ******* played man. But other than that slight disagreement over semantics, I agree with you.
____________________________
[ffxisig]188740[/ffxisig]
Busa's Cloth Guide 1-100
Zaredx wrote:
Gjallihorn + Carnwenhan = Green Ranger's Flute! DRAGONZORD!
#13 Jul 12 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
FFXI always had a terrible community because it's no different than any other game really. Most people just never realized it when they were lower, because it only happens on important things once people get higher. In the lower levels, people always ****** around and did shady **** in Valkurm, but at that time most people just forget it and move on in a few days at most. Once you start getting into more "serious" matters in endgame, the ******* over starts to hit people more and cause more problems.

Anyone who's old school endgame probably knows what I'm talking about. MPKing and MPK controlling was practically an accepted skill in endgame, LS sabotage (things like getting another LS's player's account and CFHing a king at 10%) happened on a semi-regular basis and **** was stolen all the time.
#14 Jul 12 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
***
1,557 posts
Just to be a voice of contradiction, I've found that over time, the players of best quality have stuck around and the jerks have (stolen ls bank / mpk'd everyone / verbally harassed others) into complete social oblivion. These people are long gone, and only relatively solid people are left. Endgame shells are more respectful to one another than maybe they ever have been and there is an endgame community of people who more or less respect one another.

So, OP, basically everything you say I totally disagree with. I've come across my share of jerks in my time in this game but I see fewer and fewer as time progresses, not more and more. Maybe it's just me - I've heard of all of the crap you describe, it's just that anyone that's not new knows to avoid 'new pickup dynamis shells' and in general putting themselves in positions to be screwed over. But the ******** over stuff is in the minority nowadays. Believe me, it was a lot worse when there were only a few (random example) rdm af2 hats on the server. These days, it just doesn't matter as much and so the drama around ******** people over items is so much diminished.

Also, lotro has (or had before the f2p switch) the most mature player base. It doesn't even compare. It like you and I are playing two different games.

edit: bad grammar + comma abuse

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 12:22am by fmagnet
#15 Jul 12 2010 at 10:28 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
4,639 posts
Quote:
people always ****** around and did shady sh*t in Valkurm,


Okay i'm REALLY curious, lol.

Only thing I can think of is spawning Marchelute and MPKing people with him.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 12:29am by Zafire
____________________________
Hume male, Zafire, Server: Sylph
50DNC, 50SMN, 50BRD, 50SAM, 50DRG, 50WHM, 52THF, 52COR, 52MNK, 58BST, 60WAR, 67PLD, 69PUP, 75RNG, 75SCH, 75BLM, 80NIN, 80DRK, 85BLU, 85RDM
Retired since February 2011.
All SJ's capped for LVL99!

#16 Jul 12 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,285 posts
Zafire wrote:
Quote:
people always ****** around and did shady sh*t in Valkurm,


Okay i'm REALLY curious, lol.

Only thing I can think of is spawning Marchelute and MPKing people with him.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 12:29am by Zafire


Pre-MPK patch when people could train all of the goblins in Valkrum to a party and just warp/die and they would kill pretty much the entire party, and then slowly walk back to their spawn point, killing a few people on their way back if you were unlucky.
#17 Jul 12 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,180 posts
klownzor wrote:
Zafire wrote:
Quote:
people always ****** around and did shady sh*t in Valkurm,


Okay i'm REALLY curious, lol.

Only thing I can think of is spawning Marchelute and MPKing people with him.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 12:29am by Zafire


Pre-MPK patch when people could train all of the goblins in Valkrum to a party and just warp/die and they would kill pretty much the entire party, and then slowly walk back to their spawn point, killing a few people on their way back if you were unlucky.


In before "the game was so much more fun when you'd die instantly after zoning out of selbina or into crawlers' nest."
#18 Jul 13 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
Zafire wrote:
Quote:
people always ****** around and did shady sh*t in Valkurm,


Okay i'm REALLY curious, lol.

Only thing I can think of is spawning Marchelute and MPKing people with him.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 12:29am by Zafire


MPKing with everything, intentionally killing monsters, Pling parties that are competing with a party that did something to **** you off(a lost art, I might add), various things with VE or the bat, entire PTs GMing people for no reason other than they were camping against them, and training monsters then running them to one of the two out of bounds areas(ocean and that hill they patched) are some of the things I remember.
#19 Jul 13 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
Overburn wrote:
then running them to one of the two out of bounds areas(ocean and that hill they patched
What hill?
#20 Jul 13 2010 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
Overburn wrote:
then running them to one of the two out of bounds areas(ocean and that hill they patched
What hill?


Right when you enter Valkurm from highlands, there was a spot you could run up the wall and run along it and stuff. It was patched a few times, however I don't know if they finally managed to fix it fully now.
#21 Jul 13 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
Overburn wrote:
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
Overburn wrote:
then running them to one of the two out of bounds areas(ocean and that hill they patched
What hill?
Right when you enter Valkurm from highlands, there was a spot you could run up the wall and run along it and stuff. It was patched a few times, however I don't know if they finally managed to fix it fully now.
Interesting. I don't suppose you could get a screenshot of exactly where it was, could you?
#22REDACTED, Posted: Jul 13 2010 at 2:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ADMIN edit: account selling is not allowed or condoned on the zam forums.
#23 Jul 13 2010 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
**
791 posts
Douchebags exist in all games as they exist in life. The OP draws a mountain of skepticism when he paints a Utopian landscape for the early years of FFXI that was somehow ruined when everyone realized the world isn't actually literally sitting on a turtle's back "all the way down". Also, I love how FFXI die-hards blame the dwindling playerbase on WoW "softcore" gamers who are incredibly selfish and just want gear. That's how normal games work: one should not have to wait over a year for a single piece of gear to drop to roll against multiple other people. There are better designed distribution systems in Atari games.

Protip: a great deal of the "softcore" WoW gamers did play FFXI, but got fed up with the warped loot distribution systems and needlessly long waits to *maybe* get to roll on a piece of gear 8 people wanted that dropped *maybe* once every 2 months.

Patience and tolerance for ***************** End of story.
#24 Jul 13 2010 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
ADMIN EDIT: Speed hack usage is not allowed and is agaisnt the TOS and is therefore not allowed on the zam forum.

Edited, Jul 13th 2010 6:48am by Kaolian
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 658 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (658)