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I support gil buying.Follow

#127 May 07 2006 at 12:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen a Warrior with equipment so bad that he missed a whole Rampage on a Very Tough enemy. I've partied with a Ninja in the 40s who did not have Utsusemi: Ni because he couldn't afford it. I've had a Ranger in my party meleeing with daggers and not shooting arrows because they were too expensive. I've invited a full AF Monk with a L:50 weapon to a L:75 merit party because I figured it was a trustworthy enough venture.


sounds like u need to quit being afraid to kick ppl from your PT. I <3 rng, I <3 nin, but I don't play them bc I'm poor, both in game and out. If I'm in a PT over lvl 25 where a member has unacceptable gear(not the best most expensive gear, just gear that they can take hits and deal dmg w/) I will dog on them hopeing they leave, if they don't and it starts hurting XP I will leave. If I'm leader and manage to requit sum1 who doesn't care that thier gear is worthless @ thier lvl, I will kick them.

Also, prices have gone up bc of gil buying/selling. From when I started in Feb '03, every item that was over 10k, has gone up at least 10%. I've seen several items go up by over 200%. I'm sure there are more dramitic price jumps than that, but I just wasn't paying attention to thier price.
#128 May 07 2006 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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809 posts
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What can I say, I just dont care really! It doesnt destroy the economy anymore than your greedy friends do.


What greedy friends?

Anyways, can someone find me a good fabrics manufacturer? Several of my Wehrmacht divisions need better uniforms, no way am I letting them succumb to the cold in Russia again...
#129 May 07 2006 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
I SUPPORT UR MOM!!!1111!!!!!11


Thread Over!
#130 May 07 2006 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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What greedy friends?


Your friends that raise prices of items that there are only 1 in stock of. Your friends who pay incredibly inflated prices for items. Your friends that dont have the balls to admit to you they bought that vermillion cloak, or scorpion harness with IGE gil. IGE obviously is doing something right to remain in business ;) and I would say the majority of every servers population buys gil.
#131 May 07 2006 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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809 posts
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Your friends that raise prices of items that there are only 1 in stock of. Your friends who pay incredibly inflated prices for items. Your friends that dont have the balls to admit to you they bought that vermillion cloak, or scorpion harness with IGE gil. IGE obviously is doing something right to remain in business ;) and I would say the majority of every servers population buys gil.


It's called "Supply and Demand" When supply is low, demand will rise, and therefore prices. If you don't like the price something is at, don't buy it. Under your logic, all capitalists are greedy thieves.
#132 May 07 2006 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Your friends that raise prices of items that there are only 1 in stock of. Your friends who pay incredibly inflated prices for items. Your friends that dont have the balls to admit to you they bought that vermillion cloak, or scorpion harness with IGE gil. IGE obviously is doing something right to remain in business ;) and I would say the majority of every servers population buys gil.
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They stay in bussiness cuz noobs are to lazy to actually earn gil. And sadly there are a quite a few noobs in every server...

U do realize that by buying gil, u risk getting ur account banned by SE?

And lastly, why would u waste more money buying imaginary money? Thats like playing the monopoly game and paying ur friend real money in exchange for "monopoly" money, just because u think the game is too hard ;p


#133 May 07 2006 at 12:58 AM Rating: Default
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417 posts
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And lastly, why would u waste more money buying imaginary money? Thats like playing the monopoly game and paying ur friend real money in exchange for "monopoly" money, just because u think the game is too hard ;p


No it's not. It's like paying hundreds for a hobby that brings you entertainment alone (or in Eon's case, a financial return)
#134 May 07 2006 at 12:58 AM Rating: Decent
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334 posts
It could be argued that gil-buyers are the most moral of the entire caste of FFXI players. All this righteous indignation over "destroying" the gameplay is kind of sad, considering that gil-buyers put food on the table for third world workers. So you can't claim Schnee Wa'deebi'gob'whacka the NM because of bots. That claim is worth a livelihood to some guy in China or Indonesia. Is your need for that Cloak of the Wicked Beastiness really worth starving someone for?

If people didn't buy gil, those people would be out in the fields, working in horrible factory conditions, or loitering around tourist destinations begging for change. The people who just pay SE their monthly fee just contribute to already rich people, and make them richer -- dividends to stockholders, bonuses to officers, and allowing them to make more games for middle to upper class people to numb the boredom in their lives.

I don't necessarily support this line of thought, but it's another way of looking at it.
#135 May 07 2006 at 1:01 AM Rating: Decent
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809 posts
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No it's not. It's like paying hundreds for a hobby that brings you entertainment alone (or in Eon's case, a financial return)


...a hobby that brings you entertainment alone at the cost of other honest players entertainment.

Quote:
It could be argued that gil-buyers are the most moral of the entire caste of FFXI players. All this righteous indignation over "destroying" the gameplay is kind of sad, considering that gil-buyers put food on the table for third world workers. So you can't claim Schnee Wa'deebi'gob'whacka the NM because of bots. That claim is worth a livelihood to some guy in China or Indonesia. Is your need for that Cloak of the Wicked Beastiness really worth starving someone for?


All my SS soldiers are just trying to put bread on their families tables.
#136 May 07 2006 at 1:02 AM Rating: Default
WTF!?

How exactly do U know that the money is going to third world workers!?

For all u know IGE could SAY they are donating it to 3rd world workers, when their REALLY keeping it for themselves!

BTW, that is the lamest excuse for gil-selling I have ever heard...

EDIT: Also, if u really wanted to help those workers, why dont u donate money directly to them, or start a charity fund!?

Edited, Sun May 7 02:10:24 2006 by Ryouken
#137 May 07 2006 at 1:04 AM Rating: Default
thats a very good point of view, rate up for j00!

#138 May 07 2006 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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334 posts
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How exactly do U know that the money is going to third world workers!?

For all u know IGE could SAY they are donating it to 3rd world workers, when their REALLY keeping it for themselves!

Like just about everything you buy, it's produced by workers who will do it for pennies on the dollar. They don't donate to them, they pay them to sit in a room and grind fake currency in a video game. So every time you buy gil online, a cut of that goes back to the person who farmed it, which is almost always some third world worker.
#139 May 07 2006 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
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809 posts
Maybe if we cut off gilselling as a source of income for these Chinese workers, we'd give them the guts to actually go after who's truly responsible for this mess: The Chinese Goverment. Despite their claims as being a modern country(or what the recent covers of Time and Newsweek say), thousands of goverment dissidents go missing each year. Agricultural families live in abject poverty, and any protests result in a firing squad.
#140 May 07 2006 at 1:09 AM Rating: Default
Yeah, third world workers are paid to make "IMAGINARY" money... that makes total sense...

Again, HOW do u know this!? Show me some proof, and maybe I'll agree with u...

And u dont have to pay IGE to help those workers (IF they even get paid! Or even exist!), u could... oh i dont know... donate to charity!

EDIT: MisterC brings up a good point!

Edited, Sun May 7 02:11:04 2006 by Ryouken
#141 May 07 2006 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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334 posts
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Yeah, third world workers are paid to make "IMAGINARY" money... that makes total sense...

Again, HOW do u know this!? Show me some proof, and maybe I'll agree with u...

I'm starting to think that you haven't ever played an MMO in your life, since I don't think I've met someone since 1989 who didn't know that the Chinese farm gold in MMOs. You've honestly never had "cao ni ma" yelled at you by gold-farmers?

However, since I'm dutifully procrastinating studying for finals, here is a six-minute teaser for a documentary about Chinese gold-farmers. These guys seem pretty well-to-do though. I doubt most farm-teams are this lackadaisical.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/03/16/chinese-gold-farmers-documented/
#142 May 07 2006 at 2:08 AM Rating: Good
In nut shell RMT effects us by using dirty tactics cheap tricks that normally other LS would not use every time some one buys gil from them it supports those gil sellers who use the dirty tactics thats just my opinion no one will ever change it cause i've seen to many times just to ignore it.
#143 May 07 2006 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent
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809 posts
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In nut shell RMT effects us by using dirty tactics cheap tricks that normally other LS would not use every time some one buys gil from them it supports those gil sellers who use the dirty tactics thats just my opinion no one will ever change it cause i've seen to many times just to ignore it.


Quoted for truth, this post needs to be stickied.
#144 May 07 2006 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
ok any posters here camp hnms with their ls ?

if you do you will know how badly the gillsellers monopolise the system... they might not even bot , but they sure are damn good at claiming

this is where they become a problem, they prevent players like myself and my linkshell form earning our own gill the honest way and this is the reason they are hated
it also takes an enormous amount of fun out of fighing hnms
#145 May 07 2006 at 10:20 AM Rating: Default
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It's called "Supply and Demand" When supply is low, demand will rise, and therefore prices. If you don't like the price something is at, don't buy it. Under your logic, all capitalists are greedy thieves.


Actually its considered greed for the fact that these high prices regardless of demand often times never lower. People maintain these highprices, and to act as if it you have no greedy friends or do not know a single greedy person in game is absolute rubbish.
#146 May 07 2006 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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1,543 posts
And there's a very good reason never to support Gil buying, Gil sellers, or the whole filthy RMT process.

The purpose behind the cycle is not to improve the game in any way, shape or form. It is to leech as much money out of people as possible.

RMT'ers attempt to monopolize rare spawns, overinflate the economy (anyone who went through the Christmas 2005-early 2006 economy knows this), disrupt regular play, and in general make the game less fun for all the actual players. Why?

Because an unhappy player is actually more likely to buy Gil in order to get around the very barriers the RMT'ers put up in the first place! The more of the game that is pulled into the range of utterly insane prices, the better the sales at IGE and company. The fewer of a popular item available, the more players grumble about getting enough Gil- and the more sales for an RMT, who are using every cheat and exploit in the book to rake in Gil nonstop.

Hydra's economy was a good example of what a non-corrupted economy is- the prices would have made most players lose control of their motor functions if that was the going prices anywhere else.

The side effect, of course is that good players (and not all good players don't buy Gil, though they're shooting the game in the foot doing so) tend to be driven away from a game they see as covered in bots and RMT flunkies. This drops the quality of the playerbase, which means more bad PT's, more Valkrum n00bs at 75th level, and more billion-Gil-babies in covered in more white borders than a catch girl at a bukkake shoot.

The OP portrays Gilbuying as a "necessary evil". It isn't, but it's not for lack of the Gil sellers trying to make it so as much and as often as possible.
#147 May 07 2006 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
Again, I don't support gilbuying, but I don't consider gilsellers/buyers to be evil. Yeah, some of them use dirty tactics and some monopolize NMs, but you know what? So do regular players. I don't see many Gilsellers at Nidhogg, but there's definitely dirty tactics going on there too (bots, mpk back in the day, etc). So to say that gilsellers/buyers ruin the game is a little harsh.

Gilbuyers imo are no worse than really rich people when it comes to "ruining" the economy. They both overpay for things and drive the price up.

In summary, gilbuying/selling is against my personal code of ethics, but only because I get more enjoyment out of my items when I earn them, but I really don't fault those who choose to buy gil, I just think they're lazy.
#148 May 07 2006 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
The think this is boiling down to here is the fact that a new player(and alot of none new players) cannot keep up with the prices rising. With this being said they have to become a gilbuyer themselves to keep up. It's true that you can farm and such, but without help at early levels your not going to be able to camp NM's and Trade Skills are expensive to start up as well. I do not blame the gilsellers for the rise in prices, for it is in fact the gilbuyers fault. If people didn't buy gil, then the gilsellers would quickly be out of a job as they would have no market. But since people do buy gil, then prices inflate and newbies have no choice but to spend countless hours farming or buying gil of there own, and trust me alot of people will just hit the easy button and buy it. So thanks alot to the gilbuyers who are promoting an economy that hurts the greater good.

PS: Just to clarify why I hate gilbuyers, it really pisses me off that after I spent countless months to reach level to 75 and get the best stuff only to see some *** drop a little extra money on gil and buy they same stuff I slaved over to get.
#149 May 07 2006 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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526 posts
BelkiraMithra wrote:

I would definately take the 3,000 xp per hour party over the 6-8,000 gil buyer party. And I honestly don't really care whether you believe me or not. My morals aren't going to go "out the window" because of how fast I can level up in a video game.


Riiiiight.

Just wait until the time comes when you start to Merit.

~Vasana

Edited, Sun May 7 14:04:25 2006 by Vasana
#150 May 07 2006 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,499 posts
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Yes, I support gil buying with every fiber of my being.

... There, now that I've ensured that I'll be defaulted by the 90% of people on this forum that only read the topic and the first sentence, then rate a post, I'll get further into this with only the people who are actually going to listen as my audience.

I support gil buying. No, I do not buy gil. I am a dirt-poor college student who couldn't afford gil if she wanted to, and believes anything past the $15 membership fee for my character and my three mules to be a waste of money I need for food and rent. So, the "u onleh suppert it cuz u'z a gil buyerer" argument, though the trump card of most people's ********* does not apply here.

And no, I do not go to college in China, so I don't support gil buying because it feeds my nonexistent family.

I do, however, strongly support buying gil. If you've been around this game like I have, and been in the amount of parties I've been in, maybe you would too. This is going to sound a little like bragging about my jobs, but don't try to confuse the two, I'm actually slightly ashamed of how much I've played this stupid game. But, I am a WHM75, BLM75, BRD75, DRG73, PLD66, NIN60, THF54, WAR/MNK/RNG/SAM/RDM/SMN 37, and no other job I have is below L:10.

Yes, it's sad. Yes, I know. But that is neither here nor there. The point is, in my extensive experience with EXP parties, I have been in my share of bad ones. I've seen a Warrior with equipment so bad that he missed a whole Rampage on a Very Tough enemy. I've partied with a Ninja in the 40s who did not have Utsusemi: Ni because he couldn't afford it. I've had a Ranger in my party meleeing with daggers and not shooting arrows because they were too expensive. I've invited a full AF Monk with a L:50 weapon to a L:75 merit party because I figured it was a trustworthy enough venture. I've had my EXP dragged through the ground by these sorts of people, all of whom don't buy gil.

On the other hand, I've been in parties with Warriors with Peacock Charms, Haubergeons +1 and all sort of crazy equipment, who know so little about the game that you can be sure they didn't earn any of it. But, they did their job, because it's brainless work playing a melee damage dealer, and the EXP came rolling in. I've partied with all sorts of decked out melees, some of which earned all they had, some of which didn't, neither time did I ask or care. In each case that this has happened, I was happier in my party than I would've been with an honest gimp, any day.

.. And no, I'm not saying everyone who buys gil is a bad player. That's just stereotyping, and there are plenty of gil buyers who keep it a secret and no one ever knows, who are very respected players across all servers. In fact, usually one's book knowledge of FFXI has very little bearing on their ability to do their job. I've seen people who know a heck of a lot about the game come out and stink up the joint in a party, trust me.

But, the bottom line, the overriding factor of this game, is how much EXP you get per hour. You can tell me you'd take an honest party of hard-working Joes and Janes without good equipment, bringing in 3,000 EXP an hour, over a group where you and five gil buyers tear up the area for 6-8,000 EXP in the same amount of time if you want. Trust me, I won't believe you unless you make a really good case for yourself, because morals are out the window at that point. Nearly everyone will turn a blind eye to the blatant signs of bought gil when faced with going literally twice as fast as a gimp party, and I will eagerly admit I'm no exception. Forget morals, making a statement and playing with badly-equipped EXP voids isn't worth the time I have to devote to it.

I understand the fact that gil buying messes up the economy. I saw it firsthand over Christmas when Behemoth Hides were 20 million gil each on my server. I broke a pair of Unicorn Leggings someone was having me make, and they quit the game because their life savings was gone in that one second. I felt bad about that, that inflation can ruin a person the way it ruined my client. But, life goes on. Inflation is only temporary, and only half caused by gil buying anyway. The other half is Japanese players who don't buy gil, but have an infinite supply, and will pay whatever it takes to get an item. Hence why Gun Belts jumped from 30,000 to 7 million gil in one sale on my server. Risatan to Misapon is definitely not a gil buyer sale, I can assure you. Although gil buyers are responsible for part of the problem, and I acknowledge that, it's not the whole deal or even close.

But why, if these things happen in the economy, do I still support gil buying? Well, I am an endgame player. I have a L:100 craft and endgame linkshells, I have no shortage of money and, if things ever look grim, I just spam craft and I'm back on my feet. The average economy that players toil under doesn't affect me anymore, so I'm free to not care about it. I am not the only endgame player in this sort of situation, either. Many of my friends are also free of the shackles of the economy, and can concentrate soley on playing the game.

I feel bad for people who see the items they desperately want being pricejacked, and then bought by some gil buyer or loaded JP player, but there's nothing I can do about it. Regardless of whether or not I support or protest the sale of gil, it will continue unabated. There's no use trying to fight it.

... But, back to the topic at hand. A lazy person who won't go out and farm, craft, camp NMs and do whatever it takes to get good equipment is a worse burden to a party than any gil buyer could ever be. In melee jobs in particular, it's not enough to know what you're doing, you need the money to back it up. Ninja, an increasingly popular job, can only function if the person is loaded--both with talent and gil. The almighty dollar is the overriding force in the efficiency of most jobs to a party.

Do I prefer honest, hard-working people who got their money legitimately, but still tear enemies apart as well as or better than any gil buyer? Of COURSE I do. Those are my favorite types of players, and if everyone was that way, I would be protesting the sale of gil like the rest of you.

But, we live in the real world here, and the general mentality of players on FFXI is "if I can't afford it, it's optional." Erase is optional, Utsusemi: Ni is optional, elemental staves are optional, food is optional, critical spells and items are optional, everything that makes a player worth a party spot is considered in this day and age to be OPTIONAL. And trying to be anything but a sponge is most definitely optional.

To be a worthy party member, a person needs certain things. The only ways to get those things are to go out and work hard, level a craft and take part in a good linkshell... or to buy gil. While I would prefer the former to the latter, I would take the latter in a heartbeat over just doing neither.

I've had too many parties ruined by lazy sponges and people who won't earn money to care how they get gil anymore, as long as they have it. If that means buying gil, I support their decision to do so, because it'll lessen the amount of horrible parties significantly.

In a utopian world, no one would have to do their part to contribute to a party. But FFXI is no utopia. I support people doing what they have to to contribute to my parties, even if what they have to do is buy gil. They're wasting their money, but hey, I don't know them. They can do whatever they want the other 364 days of the year, but as long as they come prepared to EXP and put their whole heart into it while they're there, I couldn't possibly care any less if they have bought gil, have stolen items, have MPK'd people for NMs. It all just seriously doesn't matter to me.

Ethics are out the window. The only true factor in this game is how fast a party gets EXP. Put your morals aside and think about your character, because it's a video game, and you play it to have fun. Go out and fight for your causes in the real world, where your voice could actually help a lot of good things. Leave FFXI for enjoyment and the betterment of your character.

Now default me please, any publicity is good publicity. Agree with me or disagree, I'm just happy people have opinions. :3


You can basically sum this up as "My exp per hour > My morals"

Not all of us have a crap load of lvl 75 jobs. Not all of us have 100+ in a craft. Not all of us have the time to get those type of things.

I can understand someone having better gear then me because they put more time and effort into it. Thats just how everything is in both life and in whatever game you play. The more effort you put into something, the more better off you will be.

But, how is it ok that some douche gets to not only have better gear then me, but also gets to ruin the economy, making it harder on me, just because he gets a fatter pay check, despite the fact we are playing the same ******* game?

Guess what? It's not ok.

Edited, Sun May 7 14:32:19 2006 by DarkKnightZero
#151 May 07 2006 at 3:11 PM Rating: Default
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MisterCookie wrote:
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Actually I would be looking for the nearest gyno if I were you, because you appear to have something lodged in your ******.

Seriously who cares what people do. In this world we will never be fully satisfied with peoples choices and decisions. I dont believe in people buying performance parts for cars, because its to me its just transportation from point A to point B, but you dont see me sitting on forums telling them I hate them or what to do with their lives. It would just be unrealistic, and a worthless cause. If people have money to fuel whatever hobby it is so be it, you are no saint nor are you one to pass judgement as I am sure like anyone else you are void of perfection.


Since no one is gonna care what I do, I'm gonna go murder some Jews!!! No one is perfect, so they have no right to stop me! Ok, now to start some good ol' fashioned Eisengruppen...


Yes because everyone knows that buying gil is the same as mass murder.

Grow the hell up and realize there's a world outside FFXI.
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