I support gil buying.Follow

Actually it sounds more like you want to replace Xylia as Alla's resident karma *****. It's fashionable to bash the anti-RMT crowd at the moment, so anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest, are almost guaranteed rateups. If Allakhazam made a post saying, "Gotcha! It was all just a big joke. Feba was in on it too btw," you'd of course go back to bashing RMT if you thought it would get you a rateup. Anything for a precious rateup.

Okay, it's been fun, but I'm off to work on preparing for my finals. You folks have a nice weekend, and thanks for your responses.

To those who only read the first sentence and the topic, I'm gone now, you can feel free to berate me at your leisure. Have some fun and knock yourselves out. :3

DP see below.

Edited, Fri May 5 15:51:16 2006 by OAjknightO

Yep, there's no harm in playing with cheaters as long as you get something out of it, right? Duly noted.




Ditto~

I for one have never bought gil, and never will... and this goes out to everyone.. If you do buy gil, Please don't think your uber gear makes you good at this game. Take the time to learn like everyone else. I don't care how your your gear is. I will still kick you from my party if you are an idiot, have no knowledge of what you're doing, and refuse to listen.

No, you do not deserve a rate down. You stated your opinion in a very clear manner to foster some discussion, so you deserve a rate-up though I strongly disagree with your position. Now, let me show you why point-for-point.



To be honest, it was almost worth not reading after this statement. No, not necessarily because you've spent so much time, but the fact that you're ashamed about it. You do realize at this point on you're arguing from your own perspective, which is fine because it's your opinion as you stated. But, that's exactly why it doesn't apply. Some of us don't spend so much time leveling all our jobs and playing the game. Let me ask: How many of those jobs did you actually enjoy? How many of those levels? Is your only purpose in this game to get exp per hour? That's certainly what it seems like, for even in those breaks in the game where you've pretty much maxed out one job or craft, why not take a little break? Just as you say no one can honestly argue they value the party with 3k exp per hour, you can not honestly tell me you valued all of that time on all of those jobs, and no, not solely because some of them had bad parties. But I'll get to that later.



This argument postulates buying gil = good player. Not only that, but it also postulates the sole sake of people buying gil is so that you can level all those jobs which you already admit you shouldn't have. Hmm... Why encourage the rush to 75? Why encourage people to go for exp per hour over fun and enjoyment? You admit it's not something to be proud of, so why do you continue to support it?

See, I could dismiss this all if the argument wasn't about gilbuying. But by supporting gilbuying, you're supporting something which largely hurts others and helps the selfish few. Yes, it is about morals because the game IS a community. Every community has its problems, people who do wrong, or people who don't care. But overall the community as a whole generally shouldn't suffer or won't stand for suffering because of the rest. At the point that it does the community becomes pretty undesirable. So if you care so little about the game and the players in it, then realize that gilbuying (as you note later) will cause people to leave sooner. Why support something that forces people out of the community? So you can get your awesome exp per hour and play the game you admit you shouldn't be playing as much?



Yeah, it's brainless. It's also brainless to fight the same exact mobs regardless of whether you can honestly get better exp per hour by changing camps to a new place. It's brainless not chaining VTs until endgame by trying some new area to avoid over-crowding. It's brainless to just sit back and let auto-attack do everything for you, I agree. It's brainless to only provoke every 30 seconds as a tank. It's brainless to only use your highest nukes over and over as a mage because they look cool. It's brainless to spam only Cure on the tank because it works. It's brainless to get a Blink tank so you don't even have to spam Cure! Overall, yes, the game can be pretty brainless. Again, why are we supporting this? Oh! So we can help those brainless players achieve endgame like you, and then keep doing it all over again? Hey, while we're at it, let's all become robots and even sacrifice our own emotions so we can punch keys more efficiently.

Oh, and you tell me how often melees can be "brainless" at levels much lower than 70 and see how much the exp rolls in, then. Oh, but then I guess they would probably use more gil they bought to hire a powerleveler? Oops, but I don't want to just assume things as you have.



Good for you. Now the melee who really knows his job well will have a harder time reaching end-game trying to make money for the Haubergeon or Scorpion Harness the awesome WAR or NIN in your party attained with bought gil along with many others, thus jacking up the prices, all proceeds being donated generously to a corporation which is making a VERY tidy profit illegally off of someone else's work and while sacrificing the enjoyment of many subscribers. Congratulations on your level.



If the Joes and Janes are fun, why not? If they aren't doing their jobs, no. If the gilbuying players aren't doing their jobs and make for a horrible, stressful experience despite the exp per hour, I'd be happy to turn it down and leave after they find a replacement. Then again, they're so uber at getting exp, they probably wouldn't need a gimp non-gil buyer like me. To quote you, such a pt to me:



Speaking of which, once again, I must belabor the point. It's not worth the time you admit is an exorbitant amount which you are not proud of? And sure, what about those pts where I had gil-buyers unknowingly? Well, could have happened. Does that suddenly make it all right, that I had a party with a gil buyer? No one has come out and admitted it, so I don't know if it was one of the good ones or not.



It's okay! Feel better about it! He doesn't buy gil, and losing someone like him who doesn't spend so much of his time getting multiple jobs to 75 is no blow to you and your hardcore circle of friends. As you say, life goes on. Who cares that the community dwindles? You're still getting massive exp per hour with all the people who stayed and who graciously buy gil to advance your cause. Uh oh.. that's ******** more players out of the game because of the prices. Bah, who cares! You know why? You tell 'em, CellyO!



Stop, one moment. I rated your post up, if it matters, for expressing your opinion, and I respect that you have. But now here's where I stand. I absolutely despise your position. Honestly, I hate it and I think it ruins the game for many people, including yourself whether you believe it or not. The end-game player who sits on his throne on top of everyone else, and ***** whatever happens now below because you're done with it. It doesn't have an affect on you. So why is everyone else such a "n00b" still compared to you? Why can't they just rush to 75 and buy gil and not have to worry about the economy either?

You're endgame? Guess what: I don't care. Your endgame buddies don't care. IGE doesn't care. And even you admit, you don't care. So you're free to play the game now? The game you've already spent too much time on? What about getting to 75? Oh, right, that's not the game, that's the tutorial! Silly me. Haha, some idiots are actually still stuck in the tutorial. And guess what? They haven't even inputted the /buygil cheat code yet to at least breeze through it like I did. It sucks playing with them, too! They actually want to have fun and not worry, so they'll even sacrifice some EXP PER HOUR! How can I get all my jobs to 75 and be on top of everything if these "n00bs" can't even finish the damn tutorial. After all, I do need them, if only for my race to 75. Then I can step all over them and not give two gil whether they quit or not. I'll still have all my awesome gear, crafts, and accomplishments. Right, guys? Guys? Hello? Anyone here?



So... your argument is "***** it, let it happen unrestrained because it happens, period"? I guess, under your logic, we should not take further measures to secure our airports because, ***** it, the terrorists got through and they will again. That's right, let's not take steps to at least combat gilselling and gilbuying. There will always be Crime. The point is to try and achieve a balance in favor of Justice, not to let Crime reign supreme and control your life. Man, you really do not get the point of a community, no offense.



Until you show them how to play, kick them from the party, or leave the party... Oh, I'm sorry, that takes too much effort, right? This game is about playing, so let's continue to rush to 75 on multiple jobs so we can regret it all later.



In your world, yes. So let's continue to support jacking up prices and feeding the gilbuying cycle while turning more and more people away from the game? Right... Because you don't care, that's right.



And people like you in your haste to 75 on a 3rd or 4th job keep inviting these people and then ditch them when the party is over without a word, perhaps? Again, ***** it, you'll never have to see them again, and if it gets particularly bad one day you can retreat back to your safe haven at endgame.



I've had parties ruined by Rank 10 players on their 3rd or 4th job to 75 acting like a complete jerk. I've had parties ruined by honest-to-goodness newbies who rightfully did not know everything about the game mechanics yet. I've had parties ruined by melee DDs in top-notch gear too afraid to kick up their damage and compete for hate. I've had parties ruined by every single job in the game. Given enough time, I bet I'll have my party ruined by Santa Claus eventually. Get over it, and get over yourself. You don't NEED 10k exp per hour to breathe and live.

Sure, let them buy gil because in your equation it automatically equals a better pt. I can tell you now you're wrong. But what do you care? You couldn't afford it, but you're at 75 on multiple jobs already. Who cares what players go through now? Who cares if they have to spend their hard-earned REAL money to make your playing experience better because you seem to have a lack of priorities in your life? Who cares? Certainly not you, as you've stated.

[quote]In a utopian world, no one would have to do their part to contribute to a party. But FFXI is no utopia.[/quote]

Seriously, go to WoW. Get another game. Do something else to challenge your idea of time well spent. That is not the idea of FFXI or its utopia. In my mind, utopia in FFXI is everyone DOING their part to contribute to a party and having fun forming the stronger bond of a party, an alliance, a community. It's not the rush to 75. It's not having the best gear possible all the time to show off or to think that will always help you perform better. Accuracy+10 doesn't mean it will automatically instill the player with skillchain timing, mob weaknesses, effective skillchaining, when to use weaponskills, how to gear swap, or anything else about the job. It just means, oh my goodness, your character now hits a little more accurately. And in your mind, that's the sole reason you should be invited to a party for exp.

[quote]Ethics are out the window. The only true factor in this game is how fast a party gets EXP. Put your morals aside and think about your character, because it's a video game, and you play it to have fun. Go out and fight for your causes in the real world, where your voice could actually help a lot of good things. Leave FFXI for enjoyment and the betterment of your character.[/quote]

Once again, your lack of the sense of a community or your own faulty priorities are not very applicable to FFXI or the overall sake of advancing the gilbuying cause. The only true factor is EXP? Please. At this point your post is barely worth reading anymore, as you've gotten the point across. You only care about EXP per hour, and we all should, too. Put your manners aside, and do whatever you want in FFXI because it is a video game. Those other characters? Haha, they're not controlled by other real people. The point of an MMORPG is just to be bigger than single player games or competitive multiplayer games, not for community, stupid! Haha! The only way to enjoy the game is through your own personal, selfish betterment, because that keeps the exp rolling in. Even if we lose community members or friends in the process, let's all buy gil, rush to 75, and be merry where we don't have to care any more about it all; and then, and only then, can we realize and wonder when did we sacrifice our enjoyment along with our morals, too.

Yeah, nice message.

Edited, Fri May 5 17:06:01 2006 by Caes

This is how our society went from "Leave it to Beaver" to "Brokeback Mountain". Same damn thing.

The more people justify gilbuying, the more people accept it as "Ok", the more it becomes commonly accepted as normal.

Then, when you look back to "then" and compare it to "now", you wonder how the f**k....

Some people enjoy the integrity they represent, opposed towards buying.


Edited, Fri May 5 17:05:23 2006 by mikesjusticee

Very nice. Rate up. I don't support gilbuying because some (or alot >_>) of gilbuyers just abuse it to make themselves feel and look better than others by taking a shortcut and being unskilled. Doing things like touching up some gear or whatever sure fine do what you will. Just don't turn into one of the overpopulated races on the servers I call "How the **** did they get through the dunes."

I don't gilbuy. I can't afford it even if I wanted to. xP

Sure I want HQ staff set and whatnot, and I'm a broketaru. I'm not gonna go gilbuying just to make myself slightly better than others. D: Or to support my crafts. But if some people have a loan to pay off or whatever, and don't go abusing this like the lottery and they have the spare cash they should go right ahead. Just don't ruin the economy. D:

-Sieg

Some good points there by the OP. And some of the same things I have often thought about myself. I hate Gilbuyers much more than I hate Gilsellers. Without the buyers there could be no sellers. But let's forget that for a moment.

If you were the leader of an EXP party and you KNEW that a certain player looking for party was a Gilbuyer... would you invite them? And by that I mean that you KNOW... not that you simply suspect. They may have told you before or whatever... in whatever capacity. Would you still invite them to your party? Does your EXP mean more to you than the morals of inviting a known (to you) Gilbuyer? Because I tell you one thing... I would NEVER invite a player that I knew bought Gil.

Of course this is a hypothetical situation. The vast majority of Gilbuyers keep it secret as best they can. Because deep down they know that most other players would ostracise them for it. But it's question of personal EXP (right there and then) over your dislike for Gilbuyers. Where do your feelings lie on this?

Hey, gaybashing is not cool man. They're people too.

Tastes change. How do you think we went from petticoats and suits to jeans and skirts and whatnot? Although I don't completely agree with the previous statement, leave your little smartmouthed metaphores on another forum. Not this one. This is for gaming. =[

Cellyo wrote:


To the OP:

Ever since I heard about RMT the very first time, I've always been one of those people protesting against it, cursing it, and getting on anyone who says they don't hate it or stand against it. This is the first post I've ever read which was neither for or against RMT yet the best post I've ever read on the issue. This is most definetly the best thread I've ever read. This is the truth without any sugarcoating. You should get an award for this thread and have it stickied. You've officially changed my mind on gil buying/selling altogether. I'm just like you and won't buy gil or be apart of it in any way, shape, or form. However, I also am with you now in realizing their's not much we can do about it, and it truly is about the experience per hour in parties.

You used the best details you could possibly use in this thread to make your point. From this point on my protest against RMT, gil selling/buying is over. Even though I'm in no way near the point of attaining the wealth you have, which would exclude me from worrying about the economy or having the economy bear no effect on me like it has no effect on you, I won't bother continuing to waste energy opposing it after having read this thread. You've made me realize it truly is a waste of time doing so.

Thank you CellyO.

Edited, Fri May 5 17:40:17 2006 by Zephenia

/sigh

I've met quite a few gil-buyers and they turned out to be excellent players. And guess what? I've met non-buyers and they sucked ***.